Are Rifles maximized by Engineers only?

[Ellyidol]

There's been a lot of talk and topics on weapon choice, most especially Rifles versus pistol/class specific weapons. From a commando perspective and experience, I would say that Heavy Pistol > Rifle.

Numbers show that the Rifle > Heavy Pistol in terms of damage dealt in normal attacks and skill damage, but from overall actual playing experience, I don't agree with the numbers. Normal attack damage and skill damage 'gain' is so negligible that the loss of stats from a Pistol/Shield isn't worth using a Rifle. I know that DPS is the most misleading stat, I also know the argument between Base Damage > DPS, my bear lived on this knowledge in PL, however for some reason, what partially leads me to think that the Heavy Pistol performs relatively equal or better than the Rifle is the DPS that a Heavy Pistol gives. Although a small difference on paper and numbers, I somehow get the feeling that the DPS stat is underrated in SL. More specifically, I think the weapon speed is what makes more of an impact.

Anyway, back to the thread title. So from a commando, it's Heavy Pistol > Rifle. I would assume from an Operative perspective, Dual Pistols > Rifles as well? With the amount of armor reduction + damage gain + speed of Dual Pistols, I would think that they would outperform Rifles. I could be mistaken here, so I would need an Operative's opinion.

That leaves the Engineers. I know that Engineers can do damage as well, but from my impression based on observations and experiences playing with engineers, their damage comes from skill usage rather than normal attacks. Adding in what I've read that Rifles yield the highest skill damage among weapons, leads me to the thread title, are rifles maximized by engineers only?

I was talking about the same subject to a good friend in game earlier, commando too, and he agreed and asked me 'So what's the use of Rifles then?', I have the same question now too. Engineers only?

[bronislav84]

That's what it used to be, but there's now the shield option since 28/30.

Rifles are highest skill damage and akin to PL staffs, but I'd prefer to LIVE over dealing the most possible damage, which is why I like shields.

Rifles are a passing trend, and can only be seen on more attacking focused Engineers now.

[Ellyidol]

That's what it used to be, but there's now the shield option since 28/30.

Rifles are highest skill damage and akin to PL staffs, but I'd prefer to LIVE over dealing the most possible damage, which is why I like shields.

Rifles are a passing trend, and can only be seen on more attacking focused Engineers now.

Which even reduces the use of Rifles? Hmm, interesting.

[Growwle]

I wish the weapons would be optimized better for each class, for instance, my commando looted a heavy weapon that had dex instead of str, which made it a less attractive option than the rifle which had more str and dps. I have seen engineer fists with dex or str too, which would make them less attractive to engineers. What I am getting at is that if an item is class-specific, it should have stats that benefit the class it is made for.

[Kraze]

From my experience with my engi I prefer the class specific weapon. While in pl as you said dps is overrated in sl it seems to be the opposite. The difference in weapon speed is significant. Plus from my informal testing the "boxing gloves" seem like they have a stun like proc and can occasionally cause the enemy to pause for an attack or two. I just haven't seen any thing at this point to make me think rifles are a good choice for an engi. However I'm really reckless with mine. I always open with transference and end up doing a lot of tanking as a lot of commandos seem a tad too concerned about stats and unwilling to take point. While my play style has led to my share off walks of shame back to party it's fast paced and exciting with all the HOT and DOT ticks going on there is never a dull moment.

[ProSophist]

Similar discussion from the rifle thread.

My answer to you is that I've been using a rifle for everything since figuring out through testing the skill damage difference is much higher with rifle compared to any other weapon for an Operative.

Trash mobs die so fast that normal attacks are almost negligible and irrelevant. Also, I've come to an epiphany that the cooldown of an Operative's skills are so short that the extra skill damage you get from spamming skill with a rifle makes up for the loss in dps if you were using dual pistols during boss fights, regardless if you consider dps as a true stat or not.

[Ellyidol]

Similar discussion from the rifle thread.

My answer to you is that I've been using a rifle for everything since figuring out through testing the skill damage difference is much higher with rifle compared to any other weapon for an Operative.

Trash mobs die so fast that normal attacks are almost negligible and irrelevant. Also, I've come to an epiphany that the cooldown of an Operative's skills are so short that the extra skill damage you get from spamming skill with a rifle makes up for the loss in dps if you were using dual pistols during boss fights, regardless if you consider dps as a true stat or not.

I can see your point, the rifle has about 20 base damage over the dual pistol at level 30 I think? Not exactly sure on numbers, just basing off memory on the Operatives I've seen.

[ProSophist]

Similar discussion from the rifle thread.

My answer to you is that I've been using a rifle for everything since figuring out through testing the skill damage difference is much higher with rifle compared to any other weapon for an Operative.

Trash mobs die so fast that normal attacks are almost negligible and irrelevant. Also, I've come to an epiphany that the cooldown of an Operative's skills are so short that the extra skill damage you get from spamming skill with a rifle makes up for the loss in dps if you were using dual pistols during boss fights, regardless if you consider dps as a true stat or not.

I can see your point, the rifle has about 20 base damage over the dual pistol at level 30 I think? Not exactly sure on numbers, just basing off memory on the Operatives I've seen.

I did some testing last night and based on my data, I got 8-10% more skill damage with rifles over dual pistols.

Although I would have to do some more testing on longer fights(boss fights). I am starting to question myself again because I feel that during longer fight, it could favor either weapons, or dual pistols might even have an advantage.

[Sporkeh]

On my Op(which I'm about to give up on) I wish there was a quick equip option available.

I would rather have a higher skill damage during my debuff n crit buff, and overall higher DPS(not the stat number) with the Twins.

What I broke it down to with Operatives at least.

Twins - Moderate to High Sustainable DPS utilizing both Skills and Regular Attacks
Rifle - Spike Damage(Skills) Low to Moderate Sustainable DPS (Regular Attacks)

[krazii]

Dual Pistols goes much faster on trash mobs (my guess less armor), I then switch to rifle for bosses. Never used pistol/shield as it doesn't seem like a good option for an op.

[Kindread]

From my experience with my engi I prefer the class specific weapon. While in pl as you said dps is overrated in sl it seems to be the opposite. The difference in weapon speed is significant. Plus from my informal testing the "boxing gloves" seem like they have a stun like proc and can occasionally cause the enemy to pause for an attack or two. I just haven't seen any thing at this point to make me think rifles are a good choice for an engi. However I'm really reckless with mine. I always open with transference and end up doing a lot of tanking as a lot of commandos seem a tad too concerned about stats and unwilling to take point. While my play style has led to my share off walks of shame back to party it's fast paced and exciting with all the HOT and DOT ticks going on there is never a dull moment.

Yes! A "kindread" spirit at heart! Another Engi that opens with transference hehe. I love it. It's like I dive I to the pile and say, "Hi bitches!" and tckle them with my transference. Reckless Rambo Engineers FTW!

[LordEspe]

As a lvl 30 comm with full, uncrafted, meganaut gear I use the damage implant with the atomic disperser! I am doing 57-95 damage and 95 dps! If there is at less one engi I'm good to go!

I was in a run with two 30 ops and when I was using the shield/black widow, I could not hold agro!! When I would switch to my disperser/damage implant, they were left alone.

Also I find the kills are a lot faster with the rifle setup!

[Ellyidol]

As a lvl 30 comm with full, uncrafted, meganaut gear I use the damage implant with the atomic disperser! I am doing 57-95 damage and 95 dps! If there is at less one engi I'm good to go!

I was in a run with two 30 ops and when I was using the shield/black widow, I could not hold agro!! When I would switch to my disperser/damage implant, they were left alone.

Also I find the kills are a lot faster with the rifle setup!

In which case does your rifle kill a lot faster?

On bosses, I agree that Rifles go a little faster than Heavy Pistols. I don't see that it goes a lot faster though, at least not worth the armor/stats of shield.

For mobs, I have to say Heavy Pistol outperforms a Rifle. IMO, the Pistol has more overall burst DPS because of its weapon speed. Although the Rifle may have a negligible increase in skill damage, the pistol can get that one or couple of attacks in before a Rifle can.

[LordEspe]

Ultimately we are talking a very small amount of damage difference and kill speed! IMO the rifle goes faster with the damage implant but I would agree the dps in the black widow is not something to snub ur nose at!

I am trying to lvl my engi so I can try a rifle and damage implant in it! I heal alot so agro shouldn't hurt me to much lol!

But getting back to the comm with rifle or pistol/shield. I think, as far as comm goes, if u know how to group the mobs together and keep them down, the weapon choice is really personal preference!

[Growwle]

The problem with threat / aggro is that everyone is usually firing at different targets, as identifying a switching targets is difficult in this game. The tank has the most threat on the mob that he/she is currently firing at. I have found that it is much more effective to stand as close the the mobs as possible when tanking, so all my attacks are in range.

[Kraze]

The problem with threat / aggro is that everyone is usually firing at different targets, as identifying a switching targets is difficult in this game. The tank has the most threat on the mob that he/she is currently firing at. I have found that it is much more effective to stand as close the the mobs as possible when tanking, so all my attacks are in range.

Or play with a Rambo engi. Ive started using transference to round up mobs and pulling them to commandos that I don't feel are tanking enough. Bottom line it forces them to either tank or panic and drop from the game. Either way I'll get my lols

[LordEspe]

Or play with a Rambo engi. Ive started using transference to round up mobs and pulling them to commandos that I don't feel are tanking enough. Bottom line it forces them to either tank or panic and drop from the game. Either way I'll get my lols

.
Lol yeah there are lot of comms that don't tank!!

@Ellli - so this is what I've found!
Full strength comm with full meganaut gear.
With atomic disperser/ damage imp
57-95 dmg, 95 dps, 546 armor

With black widow/shield/dmg imp
53-87 dmg, 100 dps, 691 armor

With incinerator/shield/dmg imp
50-76 dmg, 104 dps, 691 armor

[Mitchturbo]

Or play with a Rambo engi. Ive started using transference to round up mobs and pulling them to commandos that I don't feel are tanking enough. Bottom line it forces them to either tank or panic and drop from the game. Either way I'll get my lols

I know exactly what you mean, I find myself playing as an Aggressive Engineer.
Transference kicks *** and I'm currently liking the riffle set up.

[GigaBits]

I usually start out with transference as well, however, I play a healtank/dot sort of hybrid(idk what to call it) and have found a healthy balance using a pistol/shield combo with a damage implant and maximized protection for "hairy" siuations. I recently tried switching off using protection and ended up taking a bad fall at the director droid with a 3 op team which I was tanking with. Far as I'm concerned rifles are not worth the damage increase over the armor if your going to "healtank".

Those engineers who focus on more damage may find better mileage from a rifle and don't need the extra armor. If that's the case, go for it. For me, the fact remains that the game is still early enough and easy enough that almost everything works, just depends on what works for you.