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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Endgame Dodge is truely out of hand & should be fixed!!

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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Endgame Dodge is truely out of hand & should be fixed!!

    First off, let's take a look at this clips -



    Dodge has it's purpose on PL but dodging more than half of the hits can't be justified in a skill based PvP system. When most of the skills get dodged, then it's not possible to guess that which skill is going to hit successfully and which one get dodged and do no damage at all, in this situation it's mostly luck based system rather than skill based. We have dodge debuff too, but dodge debuff it self can get dodged. Let's say someone dodge 30% of the hits, then there's scope of 70% skill and 30 % luck based (not totally as if the dodge debuff get successful hit, then there will be less dodge, but for general purpose) SO IT'S MOSTLY SKILL BASED. But now someone dodge 70% of the hits, then it get opposite and that would be called MOSTLY LUCK BASED because approx. 70% cases it's going to get dodged. So it's clear now that adding some more dodge is not like anything like adding more armor because that can be scaled with opponent's damage even if not scaled, it still can do some damage which will add up, but adding more dodge SIMPLY CAN CONVERT A SKILL BASED PvP game into one luck based [I'm calling it "Luck" in general, there are many factors included, which would only make it complicated, I'm trying to keep it simple]

    Which Now first, take a look at the L71 best item [helm for reference]

    Name:  71-str.png
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    Name:  71-int.png
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    Name:  71-dex.png
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    I took L71 helm as reference just because I found it easily on CS, but the pattern is same for 51, 55, 56, etc etc infect mostly.


    Name:  80-str .png
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    Name:  80-int .png
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    Name:  80-dex .png
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    Now if we compare both, we can easily find that how dodge has been added on wrong places on the int & dex too, It may seems that, what's wrong to give same stat to all the sets (Int-Dex-Str) but if back then it was comparably way much balanced then, it's clear it can't be the case now because it was balanced like that. Exactly that happened along with the fact that dodge itself made the game worse, as described early in this thread. Alternatively saying, mages didn't have such dodge because mages has other huge advantages eg. high heal, High dmg, Mana Shield etc. The fact is mages don't have any disadvantage now. As a result 90% of the endgame PvP community play with mages now.

    Conclusion & solution [not in depth so that it would take much time or much deep fix]

    1) Total elimination or significant dodge nerf from Endgame int & dex items but less nerf from str items [it's required for str because anyone dodge close to 100 is not justified either]

    2) Adding armor a bit to those items so that it can compensate dodge and prevent few hit kill.

    3) AN ALTERNATIVE way to minimize the effect of dodge is to make dodge debuff UN-dodgeable, I mean dodge debuffs can't be dodged.

    4) Adding soon

    -------------------------------------------

    P.S. -- [Queries]

    Query : Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.

    To show the current difficulty level of endgame PVE (The overlord returns) I did a test ALONE with my L74 alt with L66 Angel helm, armor & L71 purple ballista WITHOUT any kinda elixor and these dungeons meant for multiple players runs together along with the fact that the daily blessing already made PvE much easier.

    Last edited by Waug; 01-03-2017 at 08:59 AM.

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    Senior Member humiiii's Avatar
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    Annnnd another one

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    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by humiiii View Post
    Annnnd another one
    You gotta admit, his persistence is kinda admirable...

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    Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...

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    Would be fine with all levels getting less dodge
    Ign - Coolguymage

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    Luminary Poster Mothwing's Avatar
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    Literally every other level is better than 80 imo. If you don't like it make a twink and stop complaining because the devs aren't going to change anything.


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    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    What Moth said^

    You made it sound like endgame is the only level effected by dodge..
    nothing lasts forever

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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Come on, bring up valid points either supporting it or criticising it, these talks doesn't matter friends but I'll answer all this because I like ya all.

    Quote Originally Posted by humiiii View Post
    Annnnd another one
    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    You gotta admit, his persistence is kinda admirable...
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthesurvivor View Post
    Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...
    Ya I can spend this small time, and my fingers are as fast as my computer, even faster than Photoshop takes time to process a photo (like just cut a portion), so all this didn't take much time, if I could waste hours playing pl. Thx for the concerns buds But don't worry I think it's my duty to point out the major issues as I loved the game for long even though if I don't play the game.

    And my friend, if u visit a game forum to say don't bother about a dead game, LoL then you urself aren't showing that you care all this about that 'Dead Game'? Or you are doing the duty to visit forums and make em aware hey this game is dead move on, kinda funny lol but that's a good job, gotta agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mothwing View Post
    Literally every other level is better than 80 imo. If you don't like it make a twink and stop complaining because the devs aren't going to change anything.
    I'm not trying to be rude buddy, but not getting other words due to limitations of my grip to English. You're none to decide if someone should complain about a valid point or not, rather definitely you can discuss about that particular point if ya could
    Anyway as said earlier, let's devs decide & even though they don't it's really necessarily to show em that's how endgame is f-uped oops Dodged-mess

    And as I said earlier, it's my duty to fix (I mean just show) the most active and special endgame pvp, but thx for suggesting twink anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    What Moth said^

    You made it sound like endgame is the only level effected by dodge..
    I'm trying to fix (just show) endgame, if u like any other level, bring up the issues, if its justified I'll support that, don't worry I can't take the load to fix (just show) all levels FOR NOW, sorry for that, and this relate to befs post too
    Last edited by Waug; 01-03-2017 at 01:10 AM.

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    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    changing dodge also changes PvE, and in dungeons after SC it would probably take a whole rework of mechanics to make it playable without dodge being a factor..
    nothing lasts forever

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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    changing dodge also changes PvE, and in dungeons after SC it would probably take a whole rework of mechanics to make it playable without dodge being a factor..
    PVE is elixir dominant (mostly due to daily blessings), and it's already easiest than ever now, even w/o elix current endgame pve is comparably easy, rather before cap/maps were harder eg. Humania, Blacksmoth
    Last edited by Waug; 01-02-2017 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    PVE is elixir dominant (mostly due to daily blessings), and it's already easiest than ever now, even w/o elix current endgame pve is comparably easy, rather before cap/maps were harder eg. Humania, Blacksmoth
    that may be, but there is still (i'd like to think) a large majority of the small playerbase who don't buy elixirs (and lets be honest, 1.5x and 1.25x dont really account for much). Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.
    nothing lasts forever

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    that may be, but there is still (i'd like to think) a large majority of the small playerbase who don't buy elixirs (and lets be honest, 1.5x and 1.25x dont really account for much). Not everyone has a capped char, many are levelling to cap right now, they will find PvE dungeons much harder if dodge is changed.
    It really doesn't matter, most of the people don't even use endgame elites to level up rather they save and buy L80 elites after caping and that's a reality.

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    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    It really doesn't matter, most of the people don't even use endgame elites to level up rather they save and buy L80 elites after caping and that's a reality.
    It really does matter, changing dodge for endgame items, as you stated; would change dodge on non-elite items as well. The majority of this playerbase doesn't PvP, changing dodge impacts them as well.
    nothing lasts forever

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    Give this man a job. I wish I had this much free time
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthesurvivor View Post
    Don't invest too much time into a dead game... Just enjoy it as it is man they're not going to fix anything soon...
    I wouldn't go as far to say its a dead game, (people spending 100$ for just plat is far from dead) but then again it's not what it was either. It however makes me just so happy inside to know that pl doesn't care what the whining pvp babies cry about anymore and just do what they want to do & implement what they see as helpful and so on.

    The people who constantly cry about pvp are the force that ruined pl with there constant need for fix's. You are the reason pl is in the state it is in.

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    Senior Member Bazinga!'s Avatar
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    I see that you've used me as an example in your video (0:00). Also I see that you've moved on from making videos of you winning to making videos of you losing.

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    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingzila View Post
    I wouldn't go as far to say its a dead game, (people spending 100$ for just plat is far from dead) but then again it's not what it was either. It however makes me just so happy inside to know that pl doesn't care what the whining pvp babies cry about anymore and just do what they want to do & implement what they see as helpful and so on.

    The people who constantly cry about pvp are the force that ruined pl with there constant need for fix's. You are the reason pl is in the state it is in.
    best thing ive read in awhile, toxicity killed this game
    nothing lasts forever

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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    It really does matter, changing dodge for endgame items, as you stated; would change dodge on non-elite items as well. The majority of this playerbase doesn't PvP, changing dodge impacts them as well.
    Seriously, you called this hard -



    ROFL, if a single one with L66 Angel and ballista without any kinda elixor can do this, really funny assumptions there, gotta agree on that also same time I'll add this video in my main post

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazinga! View Post
    I see that you've used me as an example in your video (0:00). Also I see that you've moved on from making videos of you winning to making videos of you losing.
    That's not called loosing, that's called broken PvP, that just shows how PvP is totally messed up and to show that I can make alot vids like that. Glad and thanks for helping unknowingly hehhehe
    Last edited by Waug; 01-03-2017 at 08:34 AM.

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    Luminary Poster Mothwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waug View Post
    I'm not trying to be rude buddy, but not getting other words due to limitations of my grip to English. You're none to decide if someone should complain about a valid point or not, rather definitely you can discuss about that particular point if ya could
    Anyway as said earlier, let's devs decide & even though they don't it's really necessarily to show em that's how endgame is f-uped oops Dodged-mess

    And as I said earlier, it's my duty to fix (I mean just show) the most active and special endgame pvp, but thx for suggesting twink anyway



    I'm trying to fix (just show) endgame, if u like any other level, bring up the issues, if its justified I'll support that, don't worry I can't take the load to fix (just show) all levels FOR NOW, sorry for that, and this relate to befs post too

    What the hell are you talking about, rofl. I've never once made a post complaining about balance issues. I've made comments on OTHER posts because most people make really naive suggestions like you do every other day.

    You have this weird notion that for some reason you are special in the minds of the devs and they will listen to every post you make. That's not going to happen, please be realistic.

    Youre re not going to fix end game. They've updated it twice since 80 was released only to make it worse. Why would you ever think they're going to add balancing changes to a game that's been dead for 3 years. It takes too much effort for them.

    Removing dodge has been suggested 2719472927373930 times on this forum. This isn't anything new. Please stop.


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    Senior Member Waug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mothwing View Post
    What the hell are you talking about, rofl. I've never once made a post complaining about balance issues. I've made comments on OTHER posts because most people make really naive suggestions like you do every other day.

    You have this weird notion that for some reason you are special in the minds of the devs and they will listen to every post you make. That's not going to happen, please be realistic.

    Youre re not going to fix end game. They've updated it twice since 80 was released only to make it worse. Why would you ever think they're going to add balancing changes to a game that's been dead for 3 years. It takes too much effort for them.

    Removing dodge has been suggested 2719472927373930 times on this forum. This isn't anything new. Please stop.
    Lol, read it again, I meant you shouldn't ask people to stop complaining on forum for valid reasons, but you can criticize/discuss THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, that's all I meant.

    I'm in no position to fix neither I represent any dev lol, all I meant - show em , that's what I put in those brackets.

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