Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Level 90 Cap

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dolloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rockwall Forts
    Posts
    1,171
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    641
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    830
    Thanked in
    345 Posts

    Default Level 90 Cap

    Easy way to balance pvp:

    - Raise the level cap to 90.
    - Change the pvp level range to zero instead of 2. Twinking is mostly dead anyway now. Anyone remaining around the 20ish range will either get friends to pvp at their level range or level up to endgame... Which means more $ for you, Cinco. I've been half opposed to this range change simply because endgame isn't balanced while other levels are surely more balanced (or were, before changes), like 56 and 61. But if you balance endgame, balanced pvp is balanced pvp, no matter the stats or level range. This will prevent players from merging down to a level 85 arena instead of a level 90 one.
    - Have there be "PVP stats" and "PVE stats" in descriptions of stats when selecting an item. The pvp stats will apply to pvp, the pve stats will apply to pve. You, Cinco, have shown this to be possible, as shown with stat modifications made when entering certain zones (i.e. Wearing LAT'KO in Oktal maps).
    - Make at least 6-7 types of sets or gear types for each spec (Dex, int, str). Copy stats from Sewers cap, the sets that were most useful, at least. Custom, Raid Roach, Drainer, Bagman, Henchman, Underling, Sewer King for dex. Enchanted, Mega Mage, Scrapers, Mastermind, Lowmans, Sewer Queen for int. Fortified, Fury Fighter, Cleaners, Bodyguards, Bellows, Royal Sewer. Obviously the new gear will have the same stats in pvp but not the same look or
    - Make each weapon do the same proc as the previous gear from Sewer cap (important).
    - To elaborate on a previous point, the new level 90 gear will have the stats of Sewer gear depending on what set of gear or combination of gear you choose to wear in level 90 arenas. All gear 85 and below will have severely nerfed stats in level 90 arenas and not be able to compete with the Sewers gear at all. Level 85 gear will retain its stats in level 85 arenas (and all other sets/gear will retain its stats in arenas 1-89).
    - Do not make the level 90 equivalent gear of a Sewers set like Henchman give a set bonus. No stat set bonus (...in pvp. Give it a bonus in pve if you'd like). Only cool visual effects for wearing the entire set in pvp, if anything. Have the sets like Custom, Fort, etc. give the same set bonus as they did at the 56 cap.
    - Chop hit% on each piece of Sewers gear so that you get roughly the same hit% that you would as a level 90 in a level 90 arena as you would as a level 56 in a level 56 arena. Because more int, dex, and str is added to stats over the course of 56-90, we will need to cut hit% on each piece of gear by perhaps 4% each piece. Test it out and see how it matches up vs. Sewer sets at 56. If it comes close to the same hit% or matches it, you have chopped enough hit% on each piece of gear.
    - Get rid of the arena modifiers you currently have in place and replace them with any modifiers that existed during the 56 cap.
    - Keep the hit% changes you've made to the game in previous updates
    - Undo the other changes and make it like the 56 cap.
    - Possibly adjust healing effectiveness down a certain percentage (probably not 7% like right now). But because extra INT from levels 56-90 will provide more heal, reduce healing effectiveness by 3% or the equivalent of how much heal would be gained when entering level 90 pvp arenas.
    - Add a dmg output arena modifier in arena 90 that reduces dmg by the amount of skill dmg gained from 56-90
    - 3pc rings/Dragon rings will offer very low pvp stat additions compared to level 90 rings or platinum rings while in level 90 arenas. Platinum rings will be valuable again (or the elite ring(s) from level 90).
    - Level 80 and 85 rings will give a fraction of the stats they currently do while in level 90 pvp zones. They will have nerfed stats in level 90 arenas just like the 80-85 sets.
    - Did I miss anything? Probably, but I'm not the one who can test stats like Cinco can. I have just given him a framework.

    Skills (needs a separate section because there are several ways to go about this):

    - Change ALL skills back to what they previously were at 56. Check game logs, files, info, forums to find out the stats for these skills (or check with Mysticaldream, he's a PL knowledge God). Level 6-9 skills have always made pvp more imbalanced because these skills were so horribly scaled and had a major impact on creating the dodge nightmare we experienced and still experience to this day. Levels 56-66 were quite balanced... And they have level 6 skills. 56 was the most balanced, of course.

    Option 1):
    Make it so that skills become maxed out at 55 skill points. Not the best idea, but this will surely balance skills.

    Option 2):
    Make it so that skills are changed back to what they were at level 56 cap in regards to skill levels 1-6. Heavily reduce increases in skills from 6-9. Why? Short example: If a mage uses nightmare and does a -60% dodge debuff to a bear at endgame BUT this debuff is dodged, the mage will be in a far worse position than if stats are properly balanced and the mage uses nightmare and does a -30% dodge debuff to a bear but this bear dodges. The mage who missed the -30% dodge debuff will be in a far greater position to rebound and possibly still win the battle than a mage who misses a -60 dodge debuff because the gap will be brought down significantly.

    If a bear has 80 dodge and a mage misses a -60 dodge debuff, the mage has to deal with that huge layer of dodge. If a mage misses a -30 dodge debuff to a bear who has 50 dodge, the mage has to deal with a significantly less amount of dodge. It's not as much of a disadvantage.

    If choosing this option, for hit buffs and debuffs, I recommend a slight increase of +2 from each level 6-9. Something very low but still impactful. When stats and gear are balanced, smaller increases (like 1 crit, 1 dodge, etc.) mean MUCH more in pvp than they do now. Do not be deceived by how small the increases are.

    Option 3):
    Create a PVP skills section and a PVE skills section. Pvp skills will be maxed out at 55 skill points and apply in PVP. PVE skills could go on forever, whatever kind of loco affect you want them to have in PVE.

    Option 4):
    Raise the skill cap to level 12. Rework all skills so that, for example, level 1 beckon does half of the dmg that level 1 beckon did at the level 56 cap. Another example: level 12 blast shot will do the same dmg level 6 blast shot did at the 56 cap.

    For PVE players:

    If skills are adjusted, PVE players will not be affected very much. Just adjust mobs' stats, and make stats for gear be loco in PVE so players can deal with mobs/bosses like they do now. This keeps them happy.

    Fox/Rhinos:

    Any problems with foxes or rhinos are a problem of the class itself. Skill adjustments may need to be made after this is implemented, but I can see 'Fortified' (whatever the gear name will have) foxes becoming a thing in pvp. Rhinos will be able to tank effectively with Fury and perhaps be dmg dealers with Fortified, if you go that route. Perhaps staff foxes will even be a thing.

    Players who did well during Sewer cap (random list which will show the diversity that Sewers pvp offered):

    Int mages: Jjjlove, Jcoultet, Amyxrose/Ruby
    Dex mages: Kellylita, Nobounds, Bglir
    Str mages: Ghost
    Dex Birds: Kanital, Xrax, Tla
    Int Birds: Mysticaldream's bird Mystich
    Str birds: Hahahahabirdy, Xazic
    Int Bear: Ovocotto, Kingfu
    Str Bear: Cloakker/Cloak, Fabiokmd, Redwolfak
    Dex bear: Papapat, Ajejejeje

    As you can clearly see, any spec was viable. Everything had strengths and weaknesses. Int bird? You get high crit with enchanted and low defense, but have the ability to create a combo with the proc from Enchanted staff. Dex bear? Very good dmg, but lower defense with Custom. Scraper mage? Dodgy mage that can support well but has lower mana and dmg. Lowman mage? Very good mana and heals but lower crit and dmg. Drainer bird? Very good defense but low dmg and zero mana. Bodyguard bear? Good dmg but lower defense. Its like wanting to be a tank but have high dmg. It puts the emphasis on hybrid. Fury mage? Great defense and tanking but lower dmg. Fortified mage? Good dmg, but little mana.

    As you can see, each set or combination of gear gives a trade off.

    Pros of implementing this:
    - staff mages, wand mages, pallies, bow mages, bow bears, sword bears, staff bears, warbirds, bow birds, and staff birds were all viable in pvp? There's a reason why so many builds were viable in pvp and that's because pvp was far more balanced than at any other time in PL's history. Nowadays seeing an INT bird (or "nerdy birdies," as they were called) in level 85 pvp is as common as seeing a unicorn in real life. Meaning, they don't exist, unless you want to get destroyed.
    - People from the Sewer cap ('Sewer rats') will love this change. Those who never experienced Sewer pvp will get to experience it, which will be far more balanced than what we currently have.
    - Every set of gear will be valuable since every piece will be viable in pvp. Players will want to obtain every single piece of gear so they have options!
    - Players can mix and match gear to obtain better stats/secret builds. Want to mix the level 90 equivalent of Drainer armor, Sewer King helm and henchman bow to produce stats that have some mana, decent defense, and decent dmg (weakness: lacking crit)? Go ahead! Want to mix the level 90 equivalent of Underling helm/armor with a Custom Xbow to get stats that have good mana and decent crit but have their own strengths and weaknesses compared to full blown Custom Xbow Mage? Go ahead. Want to try Lowman and Mastermind to get good mana and high dmg? Your choice.
    - These builds and mixing and matching of gear have been rarely attempted at level 56 since the introduction of glyph sets. Mostly everyone uses (or used, since it's dead now) glyph or tries to be a hipster by wearing Sewers sets instead of ever mixing like during 56 cap.
    - Those who complain about balance after these changes are just simply bad at pvp and need to learn to get better.. And they will, because 56 is the most skilled cap in the history of PL.
    - Teamwork will be emphasized. Teamwork will prevail more often.
    - 1v1s will be skillful again.
    - Dodge will rarely be a factor in deciding winners. If your opponent does have decent dodge, they sacrifice dmg, mana, etc. so that the gameplay is truly balanced.
    - We get to play as 'nerdie' birdies (int birds) again! Pallies will be a thing again! But of course, much less terrifying than the level 76-77 caps because sets will be balanced so that pallies have something like either lower dmg or lower mana depending on which set or pieces of gear they select. Str Bears haven't been so hot this 85 cap. They will play a vital role as tank again! Fortified foxes will be a thing! Dex foxes with drainer and raid bow might be a thing too! The options are endless!
    - More gear being valuable = more $ for cinco
    - You can add cool vanities into the loot table in the next cap (White dragon) or make a plat map just for farming certain items... More $. Want to add a vendor that pops out after killing a special boss and offers new faces? More $.
    - People leveling again = more $. Close down the prison (or make it so that xp orbs don't drop or drop very little of what they once dropped during 85 cap) after this cap ends so that people will have to spend $ on something new that will level them up.
    - Platinum rings being useful and valuable again for Cinco = $. Add in a level 90 elite ring that has good comparable stats with platinum rings = more $.
    - Everyone wins! Except that one random angry person who doesn't like balance or change or something something like that.

    Cons of implementing this:
    - Uh... You can't spam skills and expect to win half the time anymore?
    - Your kdr might go down if you're not good?
    - Talon mages will actually be balanced because they'll have low mana if they desire all that defense?
    - You can't two shot people with your bow bird anymore?
    - Groups of the same class/type will rarely work on teams, so you won't be able to hide in groups of what is most op (i.e. 3 bow birds or 3 talon mages)? You'll actually have to have *gasp* diversity on your team.
    - Being different will gain you brownie points for standing out and honing a particular build or secret set of gear. And you don't like being different.
    - Realistic cons? Not much.

    Remember: balanced pvp is balanced pvp, no matter how low or how high stats are.

    Like I said, I cannot test stats to know exactly what other changes will need to be made. I have just given Cinco a framework for balancing pvp.

    The future of pvp is now in your hands, Cinco.
    Last edited by Dolloway; 05-12-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  2. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Dolloway For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    66
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    I like this idea. I didn't get to play during the 56 cap, but seeing all the different sets you can mix sounds great. Great piece Dollo.

  4. #3
    Member KingCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    idk --)
    Posts
    78
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    14
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Default

    I really love this idea. You have my support.

  5. #4
    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,561
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,320
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,103
    Thanked in
    1,204 Posts

    Default

    Nicely put. Have my full support as well! (Also, thanks for the shoutout)

  6. #5
    Senior Member humiiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Bannedfort Castle
    Posts
    846
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    295
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    250
    Thanked in
    147 Posts

    Default

    Stopped reading after you said twinking is mostly dead now. Yea that's right i only read first sentence. Have you played 15 22 35? Because I did and it is not dead

  7. #6
    Senior Member FFA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Forest fight.
    Posts
    576
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    66
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    83
    Thanked in
    47 Posts

    Default

    For skill changes option 3 sounds the best, I think they should just revert the game back to how 56 pvp was. By taking away joinable levels, And nerfing the 85 set completely I think 56 would be a balanced pvp level. Just reduce all other sets in the game to not deal as much damage in pvp at level 90. You have my support.

    "Never mess with a man that can end you, from a different zip code."-Sniper

  8. #7
    Senior Member FFA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Forest fight.
    Posts
    576
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    66
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    83
    Thanked in
    47 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by humiiii View Post
    Stopped reading after you said twinking is mostly dead now. Yea that's right i only read first sentence. Have you played 15 22 35? Because I did and it is not dead
    Twink pvp shouldn't be a thing, They tried to kill it off already once to bring players to endgame.

    "Never mess with a man that can end you, from a different zip code."-Sniper

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    90
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    19
    Thanked in
    11 Posts

    Default

    Instead of making a Cap to 90, fix the Twink Level. I bet you've never played anything below 50. Like 30-40 is a great Level which ALOT ppl can approve.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Dolloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rockwall Forts
    Posts
    1,171
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    641
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    830
    Thanked in
    345 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinepin View Post
    Instead of making a Cap to 90, fix the Twink Level. I bet you've never played anything below 50. Like 30-40 is a great Level which ALOT ppl can approve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Here's a haiku:

    Tha dodge? I dunno...
    PVP ranges must go
    Level up you guys!
    /elevenchars

  11.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #10
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6,416
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    86
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12,080
    Thanked in
    3,159 Posts

    Default

    Glad you enjoyed the 56 cap from so long ago.
    | | | |

    Need help? Please visit our Support Website at http://support.spacetimestudios.com

  12. #11
    Senior Member Dolloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rockwall Forts
    Posts
    1,171
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    641
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    830
    Thanked in
    345 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Glad you enjoyed the 56 cap from so long ago.
    Indeed. That's balanced pvp. From 71 on up, the 'loco' stats get ramped up without logical scaling like high dodge, high dmg, lack of proper h/s and m/s scaling to health and mana amounts, etc. which make for fun times in PVE perhaps but has created the imbalance that persists at endgame PVP today.

    So the question is: will you balance pvp?

  13.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #12
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6,416
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    86
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12,080
    Thanked in
    3,159 Posts

    Default

    Probably not.
    | | | |

    Need help? Please visit our Support Website at http://support.spacetimestudios.com

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cinco For This Useful Post:


  15. #13
    Senior Member Dolloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rockwall Forts
    Posts
    1,171
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    641
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    830
    Thanked in
    345 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Probably not.
    Why not?

    You're making a new cap. Might as well make it right, especially if 100 is the final level in PL's history (as roadmaps planned PL to 100).

    If it takes more time to complete, you might as well take the time. Quality work is better than rushing out something that people will grow bored or tired with shortly after.

    What were all the pvp changes for if you're just going to give up on balancing pvp?

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Dolloway For This Useful Post:


  17.   This is the last Dev post in this thread.   #14
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6,416
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    86
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12,080
    Thanked in
    3,159 Posts

    Default

    Nope. I'll do the Level 100 stuff first then we'll get back to the PvP related stuff.
    | | | |

    Need help? Please visit our Support Website at http://support.spacetimestudios.com

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cinco For This Useful Post:


  19. #15
    Banned Kurvy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    PVP
    Posts
    512
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    230
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    71
    Thanked in
    55 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by humiiii View Post
    Stopped reading after you said twinking is mostly dead now. Yea that's right i only read first sentence. Have you played 15 22 35? Because I did and it is not dead
    Positive useful feedback as always

  20. #16
    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,996
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,087
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    519
    Thanked in
    365 Posts

    Default

    +1 you have my full support with this :]
    nothing lasts forever

  21. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    34
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Default

    Well said.
    Here, have my support!

  22. #18
    Senior Member Jig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    4,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    481
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    337
    Thanked in
    274 Posts

    Default

    I 100% agree with everything, make it happen cinco, you still have solid supporters as you can see here, we all have faith in you and PL!
    AL: Jiig PL: Jig 80
    Veni Vidi Vici
    Worst thing I could be, is the same as everyone

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Jig For This Useful Post:


  24. #19
    Senior Member Burningdex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,996
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,087
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    519
    Thanked in
    365 Posts

    Default

    Sorry to derail; Jig when you see this, I've been super busy with exams i still have your PERI , ill give it back next i see you on.

    On topic- what's stopping everyone just making a 55 again?

    edit:

    mage skill damages 1-6 from 56 cap:

    http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...s-Headquarters

    archer (i think this is with maxed dex at 56?):

    http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...quipment-Guide
    Last edited by Burningdex; 05-12-2017 at 11:58 PM.
    nothing lasts forever

  25. #20
    Senior Member Dolloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rockwall Forts
    Posts
    1,171
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    641
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    830
    Thanked in
    345 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Burningdex View Post
    Sorry to derail; Jig when you see this, I've been super busy with exams i still have your PERI , ill give it back next i see you on.

    On topic- what's stopping everyone just making a 55 again?

    edit:

    mage skill damages 1-6 from 56 cap:

    http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...s-Headquarters

    archer (i think this is with maxed dex at 56?):

    http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...quipment-Guide
    - skills have been changed
    - Interactions aren't the same
    - Addition of new arena modifiers
    - 3pc dragon rings
    - It's inactive
    - Everyone will use glyph instead
    - All my friends are at endgame
    - Cinco is thinking about making it so that there's no pvp level restrictions and level 100s can pvp with level 1s, so you'll get farmed

    And on a personal note, I've always been an endgame player.. my main is max level. I'd rather continue pvping with the character I've invested the most time into. I don't want to create another character because of how much time I've invested into my main. You don't get to 200k combined pvp and ctf kills overnight. A lot of my guildmates feel the same. I do enjoy the PVE experience as well. Ever since 71 cap though, I've been disappointed with the pvp experience at endgame and have done everything in my power to try to make it a balanced level.

    The most important point: I believe that the top level or endgame level should offer the best possible pvp and pve experience that it currently can offer. With each new cap, we should strive to create the best possible experience for both pvp and pve players alike. Otherwise, if endgame isn't the best possible level to reach, why level up?

    Well, if nothing is going to be done then why not just quit, Dollo? I actually did for a year and a half or so after Samhayne's retirement because of the lack of a PL development team. But I heard about PL getting updated again and Cinco telling us that 2017 was going to be loco, so I decided to come back and check it out. I figured that there was no better time to make endgame balanced once more than now. If this is the last possible chance, at least I know I tried.

    And yes, those are excellent guides, especially the mage one since Phar isn't wearing anything and doesn't have any stat points in the screenshots. As for the archer one, Physio is using Cyber and has maxed dex at 56 in the screenshots. I don't think his thread is as useful.

Similar Threads

  1. Opening Ursume Crates on Level 3 and Level 4 toons gives Level 11 items
    By Fyrce in forum AL Technical Issues and Bugs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-14-2015, 09:22 PM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-18-2014, 05:51 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •