Can devs explain...?

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

So, fun story about this. This is all latency. Any game (and especially in mobile when people are using Wifi or 3g/4g) there is a visual difference between where your game thinks you are and where the game server thinks you are. This is even more exaggerated in terms of where other players are positioned. There's a bunch of work done to estimate where the player is going (based on their current direction and velocity etc) but there's a good chance it won't be exact.

So what you're seeing here is that when Shooter fires that last arrow, on the server she is not tucked behind the rock, she's within range and line of sight to fire at you. Your client has her positioned somewhere else though (because of latency and estimated positioning) and plays the effects of the shot from her rogue. That's why you're seeing the arrow fire through the rocks, because on your client the rogue is visually behind the rock.

The only real solution is for the entire world to get better internet

[Arcane Ziix]

So, fun story about this. This is all latency. Any game (and especially in mobile when people are using Wifi or 3g/4g) there is a visual difference between where your game thinks you are and where the game server thinks you are. This is even more exaggerated in terms of where other players are positioned. There's a bunch of work done to estimate where the player is going (based on their current direction and velocity etc) but there's a good chance it won't be exact.

So what you're seeing here is that when Shooter fires that last arrow, on the server she is not tucked behind the rock, she's within range and line of sight to fire at you. Your client has her positioned somewhere else though (because of latency and estimated positioning) and plays the effects of the shot from her rogue. That's why you're seeing the arrow fire through the rocks, because on your client the rogue is visually behind the rock.

The only real solution is for the entire world to get better internet

Thanks for the reply vroom I appreciate it, I know exactly what you're talking about and I am very aware of the whole latency situation in pvp

However I assure you this is not latency based. The player purposely fires that 1st shot in order for the 2nd impossible shot to land. And in the 2nd and 3rd clip his first shot didnt even need to land on me in order for his 2nd shot to (behind rocks and extremely out of range)

I'm 100% aware of this whole latency and ping difference stuff, but this is not one of them. Every PvP player I've showed the video to claims something is out of the ordinary.

I honestly wouldn't have brought it to the forums/devs if I wasn't 100% sure that something fishy is going on...


I'm not sure whether you guys will look into it but thanks for the reply anyway


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[VROOMIGoRealFast]

The second part of this is that, like most abilities in the game, once the skill has been activated at a valid target, it is going to hit that target no matter what. If the ability is in the windup animation, or the arrow is mid flight, and you hide behind a rock it is still going to hit you. At the moment she is activating the ability, on the server she has a valid shot at you. Because the 2 of you are running in nearly opposite directions, you put a lot of extra space between each other during the windup animation and while the arrow is mid-flight. Noxious Bolt for example has a .5 second windup animation, which means you have .5 seconds to run away from each other before the arrow even fires.


That said, it's worth us evaluating the way that system functions and possibly making it so the targets are validated after the warmup animation!

[Arcane Ziix]

The second part of this is that, like most abilities in the game, once the skill has been activated at a valid target, it is going to hit that target no matter what. If the ability is in the windup animation, or the arrow is mid flight, and you hide behind a rock it is still going to hit you. At the moment she is activating the ability, on the server she has a valid shot at you. Because the 2 of you are running in nearly opposite directions, you put a lot of extra space between each other during the windup animation and while the arrow is mid-flight. Noxious Bolt for example has a .5 second windup animation, which means you have .5 seconds to run away from each other before the arrow even fires.


That said, it's worth us evaluating the way that system functions and possibly making it so the targets are validated after the warmup animation!

Thanks for your reply

I'm aware of what you've mentioned here. Once a target is in range and my skill is charged and ready to fire, the skill is locked onto that target so it will hit them regardless of their position (unless they are extremely out of range) Yes just like you said, on their screen they may see me releasing the arrow while they are 'hidden' but on my screen thats not always the case.

But... in this case it's more of a distance issue, shots are landing out of the normal range which is impossible to do by any other player. And there seems to be an unusual method to it, which can be seen more easily if played in slow motion.

I mean this in absolutely no disrespectful way but I beleive the reason you may not notice what i'm saying is because you haven't played pvp long enough (for obvious reasons; you are busy with your job as a dev of course and I totally understand that)

It would be great if some other rogues (or any other class) drops a comment here to let me know what they think

Thanks Vroom, sorry if I seem stubborn but i'm just trying to get to the bottom of this




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[VROOMIGoRealFast]

No worries, I know you're trying to get to the bottom of it.

The part you're missing is that you said "they see me releasing the arrow" but it goes further than that. As soon as they press the skill button you're locked on. It takes another half a second for them to see you releasing the arrow, during which time both of you are running away from each other.


Looking at the 3 situations in the video, all of them appear to be this exact case. Based on one case the first arrow hitting, and the second an arrow not hitting, you shouldn't need the first arrow to reproduce this. It's possible that firing the first arrow causes your client and the server to line up less (because the server says the rogue fired from X,Y position and your client says "Oh I should put the rogue closer to that position" when the Rogue on the other end has already moved).

If you still think there's more going on than that, can you try:

1) Can you reproduce it without the first shot
2) Is it 2 specific abilities that have be chained or can it be done with any Rogue Bow skills in any order (Aimed Shot, Noxious, Shadow)

If there really is a specific method to do this, as many details about that specific method as possible will give us more information on where a potential issue could be.

[Arcane Ziix]

No worries, I know you're trying to get to the bottom of it.

The part you're missing is that you said "they see me releasing the arrow" but it goes further than that. As soon as they press the skill button you're locked on. It takes another half a second for them to see you releasing the arrow, during which time both of you are running away from each other.


Looking at the 3 situations in the video, all of them appear to be this exact case. Based on one case the first arrow hitting, and the second an arrow not hitting, you shouldn't need the first arrow to reproduce this. It's possible that firing the first arrow causes your client and the server to line up less (because the server says the rogue fired from X,Y position and your client says "Oh I should put the rogue closer to that position" when the Rogue on the other end has already moved).

If you still think there's more going on than that, can you try:

1) Can you reproduce it without the first shot
2) Is it 2 specific abilities that have be chained or can it be done with any Rogue Bow skills in any order (Aimed Shot, Noxious, Shadow)

If there really is a specific method to do this, as many details about that specific method as possible will give us more information on where a potential issue could be.

I've spoken to the player and he himself admitted that it is a glitch (He also added that there is a method, which he doesn't want to share)

I didn't want to get into all of that because I thought it would be very evident; I was wrong

I cannot reproduce it without the first shot because for me (and i'm sure 99% of other rogues) it's not possible to accomplish. With or without the first shot.

Also I was told by the player that it can be done with aimed shot, as well as noxious bolt.

Maybe what I can do is attempt to immitate the locations and movements of the rogue, by using another rogue to show you that the 2nd shot (from clip 1) will not land on a normal basis. I will use a rogue who has lower ping than shooter/break and attempt to-recreate the clips


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[Mely Original]

We know about the delay, when we get hit a few milliseconds after we are 'hidden' for exemple. But this is not normal not like this.. I think someone who play pvp as much as we do will know this isn't delay :/

[Terrorshock1]

No worries, I know you're trying to get to the bottom of it.

The part you're missing is that you said "they see me releasing the arrow" but it goes further than that. As soon as they press the skill button you're locked on. It takes another half a second for them to see you releasing the arrow, during which time both of you are running away from each other.


Looking at the 3 situations in the video, all of them appear to be this exact case. Based on one case the first arrow hitting, and the second an arrow not hitting, you shouldn't need the first arrow to reproduce this. It's possible that firing the first arrow causes your client and the server to line up less (because the server says the rogue fired from X,Y position and your client says "Oh I should put the rogue closer to that position" when the Rogue on the other end has already moved).

If you still think there's more going on than that, can you try:

1) Can you reproduce it without the first shot
2) Is it 2 specific abilities that have be chained or can it be done with any Rogue Bow skills in any order (Aimed Shot, Noxious, Shadow)

If there really is a specific method to do this, as many details about that specific method as possible will give us more information on where a potential issue could be.

after further testing it seems to be a glitch


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[Arcane Ziix]

No worries, I know you're trying to get to the bottom of it.

The part you're missing is that you said "they see me releasing the arrow" but it goes further than that. As soon as they press the skill button you're locked on. It takes another half a second for them to see you releasing the arrow, during which time both of you are running away from each other.


Looking at the 3 situations in the video, all of them appear to be this exact case. Based on one case the first arrow hitting, and the second an arrow not hitting, you shouldn't need the first arrow to reproduce this. It's possible that firing the first arrow causes your client and the server to line up less (because the server says the rogue fired from X,Y position and your client says "Oh I should put the rogue closer to that position" when the Rogue on the other end has already moved).

If you still think there's more going on than that, can you try:

1) Can you reproduce it without the first shot
2) Is it 2 specific abilities that have be chained or can it be done with any Rogue Bow skills in any order (Aimed Shot, Noxious, Shadow)

If there really is a specific method to do this, as many details about that specific method as possible will give us more information on where a potential issue could be.

So after doing some testing, we think it's some sort of glitch to do with aimed shot and nox.

The skill aimed shot can be spammed while walking away and the 2nd/3rd shot can land while being out of range.

I'm not sure whether this is the case for the 2nd/3rd clip i posted, because in those ones, the only shots landed were ones out of range (but I beleive the same glitch methods may apply to that situation too)

Anyway here is a video which shows an aimed shot (which was spammed) landing from out of range due to a glitch.

https://youtu.be/roBhen84anE


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[|Ares|]

So, fun story about this. This is all latency. Any game (and especially in mobile when people are using Wifi or 3g/4g) there is a visual difference between where your game thinks you are and where the game server thinks you are. This is even more exaggerated in terms of where other players are positioned. There's a bunch of work done to estimate where the player is going (based on their current direction and velocity etc) but there's a good chance it won't be exact.

So what you're seeing here is that when Shooter fires that last arrow, on the server she is not tucked behind the rock, she's within range and line of sight to fire at you. Your client has her positioned somewhere else though (because of latency and estimated positioning) and plays the effects of the shot from her rogue. That's why you're seeing the arrow fire through the rocks, because on your client the rogue is visually behind the rock.

The only real solution is for the entire world to get better internet

Which in really long story short in pvp community is called a "speed set delay", thanks for explanation Vroom.

[slaaayerrr]

btw 3rd skill (which glitched) doesnt set skill on cooldown and u can cast same skill again without waiting
can be aimed,nox,aimed,aimed (between last 2 aimed shots - 0 cd)
or same nox,aimed,nox,nox (between last 2 noxs - 0 cd)

working in pve also

[|Ares|]

So after doing some testing, we think it's some sort of glitch to do with aimed shot and nox.

The skill aimed shot can be spammed while walking away and the 2nd/3rd shot can land while being out of range.

I'm not sure whether this is the case for the 2nd/3rd clip i posted, because in those ones, the only shots landed were ones out of range (but I beleive the same glitch methods may apply to that situation too)

Anyway here is a video which shows an aimed shot (which was spammed) landing from out of range due to a glitch.

https://youtu.be/roBhen84anE


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This isn't a glitch, its a cooldown skill lock on a delay. Just as Vroom stated above it's about server. If you instantly press the nox after the aim and then aim again -> skills still lock on your character and as you could notice Shooter is using aim/nox. This has been in game since the very beggining, thing with aim happens with Pve aswell. Even tho it looks really weird as you could get hit from such far and take the damage this actually is game thing.

If you play any other games, League of Legends for example -> the ADC (attack damage carry role) is based on shooting enemy team from the distance with a good positioning (some sort of AL's rogue but as much rambo as in AL) and the lockdown skill on your champion sometimes makes u feel like you shoot someone from far or you hit someone that left out your range. It does not happen often as server provides the stable 30 ping for everyone but it actually happen from time to time.

Tl;dr its very much likely the server adaptation to your internet frame.

[VROOMIGoRealFast]

btw 3rd skill (which glitched) doesnt set skill on cooldown and u can cast same skill again without waiting
can be aimed,nox,aimed,aimed (between last 2 aimed shots - 0 cd)
or same nox,aimed,nox,nox (between last 2 noxs - 0 cd)

working in pve also

Interesting, can you explain this one a bit more? I wasn't able to reproduce this.

My steps:
1- Load only Aimed Shot and Noxious Bolt on my hotbar
2 - Go into PvE Zone
3 - Fire Aimed Shot
4 - Fire Noxious Bolt
5- Fire Aimed Shot once it's off cooldown

#6 should be where I can fire Aimed shot again correct? Aimed shot was going on cooldown for me.

[slaaayerrr]

Interesting, can you explain this one a bit more? I wasn't able to reproduce this.

My steps:
1- Load only Aimed Shot and Noxious Bolt on my hotbar
2 - Go into PvE Zone
3 - Fire Aimed Shot
4 - Fire Noxious Bolt
5- Fire Aimed Shot once it's off cooldown

#6 should be where I can fire Aimed shot again correct? Aimed shot was going on cooldown for me.

sorry my english bad, will try
1) casting aimed (can be charged or no charged, doesnt matter)
2) casting nox not charged
3) all time AFTER nox casted and BEFORE aimed cd ready i spam to button with aimed (its like 5-7clicks in that one second), stop spamming it before aimed cd ready
4) when aimed cd ready - waiting 0,5 sec and aimed autocasting (without any my actions) and without cd - so 5) i can cast aimed again (without waiting cd)

idk how it works, so its not 100% chance for me to make it as i described

[|Ares|]

Interesting, can you explain this one a bit more? I wasn't able to reproduce this.

My steps:
1- Load only Aimed Shot and Noxious Bolt on my hotbar
2 - Go into PvE Zone
3 - Fire Aimed Shot
4 - Fire Noxious Bolt
5- Fire Aimed Shot once it's off cooldown

#6 should be where I can fire Aimed shot again correct? Aimed shot was going on cooldown for me.

I think that the thing that was missed here is that the "aim glitch" can be done on phone mostly. I didnt experience it playing on PC tho but could see it done by people playing on mobile in enemy team for example.

[slaaayerrr]

I think that the thing that was missed here is that the "aim glitch" can be done on phone mostly. I didnt experience it playing on PC tho but could see it done by people playing on mobile in enemy team for example.

im on pc
......

[Oaciuare]

Is it a glitch? I haven't seen it before inside the 5 years i've been playing... Just curious, no drama comments please ty

This isnt something anyone can do, you can't just shoot an aimed/nox and land the 2nd one being miles away

https://youtu.be/jvJA3YeAA94


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Shooter himself had decided to come and resolve all issues.

These shots are not dependent on ping nor a rogues ability to snipe at difficult angles.

It is a glitch because I'm sure STS did not intend for it to be part of the game.

Yes it has been around since the very start of the game but no one decided to manipulate it in such a way during PvP.

Truth has worked it out so I'm sure you all from purge know how to do it now.

You can't do this bug on PC, it's specifically for mobiles or iPads.

You also suggested that I am the only one doing this in your 5 years of playing. Not true, I've taught several of my friends how to do it and they have no trouble to replicate it.

People are suggesting that it's a mixture of aimed/nox which is not true. You use either double aimed shot or double nox. You can't mix it up.
Zix I've already explained all of this to you in pvp I think.

On a final note-
To my beloved fans, I appreciate you are still trying to expose me as a macro user, hacker or cheater or pretty much anything to discredit me in pvp but I'll say it again: I play on a Google Pixel XL (which is a mobile if you didn't know) so using macro is impossible. As far as hacking goes, do you not think STS would have looked into my account? Everything I've done is completely legit and will always be legit so I'd appreciate it if the baseless allegations would stop.

If you got anymore questions ask me in-game.

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[Oaciuare]

Interesting, can you explain this one a bit more? I wasn't able to reproduce this.

My steps:
1- Load only Aimed Shot and Noxious Bolt on my hotbar
2 - Go into PvE Zone
3 - Fire Aimed Shot
4 - Fire Noxious Bolt
5- Fire Aimed Shot once it's off cooldown

#6 should be where I can fire Aimed shot again correct? Aimed shot was going on cooldown for me.

Those steps won't work since this bug does not work on PC as far as I know.
You need a mobile or an iPad.
If you're trying it on mobile or an iPad - you don't need a specific load out, just any load out which includes aimed or nox. Also, you can do it any map - towns, pve maps, PvP maps, taverns etc. It works everywhere.
You cant use aimed shot and noxious bolt in order for it to work. You need to use one or the other.

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[intizamfamily888]

I think the tanks were using this ""glitch"" for years now. With Skyward Smash+Axe pulls where they were able to pull enemies from 1 spawn to the other one.

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[Flamesofanger]

I think the tanks were using this ""glitch"" for years now. With Skyward Smash+Axe pulls where they were able to pull enemies from 1 spawn to the other one.

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oof



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