Power leveling

[MightyMicah]

What is the big deal with "powerleveling" Why does everyone dispise it so much? Speaking for myself, I've power leveled like every one of my characters. And people I talk to in game are cool with it. They're like "c'mon man lets get you power leveled to the moon!" and "Lets do this crap!"

So why the hate from from the forums? Is it because "noobs won't be able to learn." because if that's the only reason, I'm gonna call bull crap on that one. Any "noob" who pvps for about 2 weeks generally begins to grasp the game. My first character was a noob without power leveling. The only thing that made me smart was when I played at top level and observed everyone's techniques in the sewers. Power leveling would have kept me a noob for a shorter amount of time!

Also, power leveling noobs is never even an option! Even when I level twinks it takes me frikin forever 'cause I get booted lol the only power leveling that takes place is when a noob has their guild level them. This usually includes getting taught as they level. Which makes them less "noobish" so to speak...

Now, I'm no idiot. I realize there wouldn't be a big deal for nothing. So if someone could please inform me just what I'm missing here, I would appreciate it imensely! Thanks in advance!

~MM

[Ellyidol]

Mynas Gen.

I see your point, but as someone who has his main leveled up normally versus his two power-leveled alts, I can really say that I have appreciated and learned more about the class I leveled up normally. Not to mention learning more about the game itself.

What the community means by power-leveling is a completely new player, going from a few kills in FH to tagging along in the last campaign until they reach cap. They have no idea that they have stat points, skill points, and how to use them. Of course, there are those experienced gamers that know what they are doing, but we're talking about a game for a young audience here - it could be their first MMO.

[Nick41324]

I agree with you xD people hate power leveling, but they have no problem when people spend money on elixirs. If you buy a elixir, your paying STS to power lvl you..

But helping a new player to lvl up is completely sucking the fun out of the game for the newer player.

[zeusabe]

Well to answer your question, first of all, power leveling is more known as leeching in other MMO's, it's not the fact that you're a noob that they condemn it, but rather it's how lazy you are. You see, when you power level, you rely on another person's efforts hence the term leech. It's a false analogy to compare playing on elixir vs power leveling because elixirs require you to pay real money (and real money isn't easy to earn, in fact, it's harder to make a million in real life compared to a million in PL LOL), so in a way, you "sacrificed" something in exchange for an additional leverage in-game, however, power leveling, you absolutely have nothing to sacrifice aside from time (which isn't really a sacrifice because everybody does it if you analyze it deeper), so if I have to choose between the two evils, I would always put power leveling on a lower level versus elixirs based exclusively on the "amount" of sacrifice that a player has to make to get that evil. Think about it this way, in a work environment. You get one guy who got promoted as a senior manager because his subordinates did most of his job for him (IKR, very irritating...), basically he took most of the credit, meanwhile on a different company, an employee got promoted to a senior manager because he used his own money to treat his boss and give him a raise (classic suck up)...Two evils, yes, got the job done, but for most people, they will hate the employee who relied on his subordinates over a guy who sucked up using his own resources (in fact, the latter might even get praises for being suave) you know what I'm saying?...Power leveling is term glorified and evolved from the term "leech" coined by old time rpg'ers...it was never a good thing to begin with...people just stopped caring because everybody does it anyway but it doesn't mean their opinions changed...hope this enlightens you a bit XD you were asking right?

[Fyrce]

Um, actually my problem with powerleveling is the noobs. Definitely the noobs. The L66 scatterbears. The L66 mages who do not realize mages have spells. The L66 birds with no damage.

After that, I have some issues with no-combo L65/66 players...

So it's not powerleveling per se. If you know how to play, then powerlevel away! Just make sure you really do know.

I have the same issue with people who think they can max level and max equip and that makes them elite. I mean really: Noob!

In addition, people who start this (any) game and are intent solely on leveling quickly and others who help the aforementioned, are really not helping these 'powerleveled' persons to learn this game. This game, btw, is a SOCIAL game, first and foremost. Socializing and making friends takes time. Powerleveling, by definition, cuts time. Powerlevelers are hurt when they start a new game, do not know anyone, get to high levels and STILL do not know anyone. At that point, they start wondering (1) HOW to make friends and they might even start begging here (2) how come everyone says they cannot play when they are the appropriate level (again, they might start begging or they might be frustrated and quit). They thought they were playing the game right and taking a shortcut. Instead, they were hurting themselves by not having any friends, not knowing anything about the game, and very obviously showing everyone else their ignorance.

Of course, not everyone powerlevels in the game and not every powerleveler is an ignoramus. Those that know how to play are quite a few -- jump into any PUG and the likelihood of meeting people playing the game adequately becomes quite obvious.

Since there are people who do learn the game, it makes it even sadder for those who do NOT know how to play and do not want to learn -- they end up alone and not enjoying the game they do not understand and do not bother learning. They are even more confused when they cannot understand why they are ignored so much or ostracized so often. Solution? Try to talk to them. About 1/10th will listen. About 9/10s will curse you. Feel free to ignore the latter.

[zeusabe]

I'd rather accept a legalized botting than leechers because again like the TS said, the game isn't sophisticated enough to not be learned in a couple of days or a week or two, it's not rocket science, the noobs that are being mentioned aren't the result of power leveling, they're just noobs, period, not good, period, cuz the game itself isn't really hard to comprehend. Personally, I got the grasp of the gameplay in less than what? 5 days? maybe even less than that...So deep inside people know that these leechers are lazy people who feed off other people's hard work, that's the true reason for the hate, the noob-ing part is another topic altogether which has got nothing to do with power leveling (unless you can provide a study proving this to be true) my personal experience say that after less than 5 days of playing the game, I got it, which means I could have power leveled the rest of the way and STILL play decently...

[Gaddy]

It's because other people can do it, it's a problem. There is a large, vocal, minority in this community that wants to be able to control how other people get to play their game. And it's mostly due to their desire to control things such as the leaderboards and/or the player Consignment Shop. If new players can touch those two things it's a very, very, bad thing for them... And they complain. Oh, do they complain.

Unfortunately, the player base has realized that if they yell and cry really loudly, this Dev Team is more-than-likely to listen to them and do knee-jerk reactions like raise elixir prices and change the stats on vanity items. Well, you know what happens when you reward bad behavior, don't you?

[Redbridge]

The topic has been discussed many many times. Use the search function and you'll find all the various thread with all the many views and reasons for/against.

In short, the topic has been group "wrongly" under the heading powerlevelling. So quite rightly many people have discussed the fors/againsts of powerlevelling. The actually issue isn't powerlevelling but more specifically not learning the game basics on route to higher levels. This results in a number (a few/ some/ lots? Who knows?) of players who join maps and because of their lack of knowledge of the basics they unwittingly spoil the gaming experience for other players.

Now, my view is the issue isn't the lack of knowledge but the reaction from the effected players. If a "noob" or skill less player starts to ruin your gaming experience you have various choices. These range from helping that player either in detail or with tips, directing them to the forums, asking them to up their standard or they'll have to leave, booting players, locking your games, remaking a new game when you reach the end of the level.

However you react to players who don't have the skill level you expect in your games, they are never gonna change unless you assist in some way with at least some good constructive feedback. Also the expectations you have of other players are your own expectations so be prepared to adjust them accordingly.

Finally, powerlevelling is absolutely fine. There is no evidence that powerlevelling is the cause of higher level players with lower skill levels. The problem is players levelling with no assistance/feedback/will to learn the game from their friends/guildies/self.

We all have a responsibility to assist all players, so if you get frustrated with a players low skill levels then offer some constructive feedback and point them towards the many guides on the forums. As already stated above though, a percentage of these players simply don't want to improve, so just deal with them accordingly and move on.

So on that note, anyone fancy showing me how to lose my scatterbear reputation..... ;-)

[MightyMicah]

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I really didn't expect such a response. I really appreciate it and I think I see just where the problem is stemming from. Thanks again!

~MM

[Onaraasider]

Who knows what can be counted as powerleveling anymore?!?!Everything we do can be counted as powerleveling,Constantly remaking a game with friends,while potted with a 4x elixir.the exp everywhere elixirs can be counted as powerleveling, and now thanks to complaining it cost 5 plat!! If all these things are counted as powerleveling,then my guikld would be acussed of powerleveling a lot.

[Walkhardd]

Not 100% this was from power leveling but I met a lvl 56 bear when I was leveling an alt in sewers..he kept pulling the mobs away from the walls and stomping them all over the place..after the run I decided to help him out a bit, and try to explain his role..I was feeling very generous, and gave him an extra fury set I had (which he told me his gear was better because the dmg was higher lol) but how in the hell do you get to lvl 56, and not know what a fury or custom set is?

[Econodeath]

Not 100% this was from power leveling but I met a lvl 56 bear when I was leveling an alt in sewers..he kept pulling the mobs away from the walls and stomping them all over the place..after the run I decided to help him out a bit, and try to explain his role..I was feeling very generous, and gave him an extra fury set I had (which he told me his gear was better because the dmg was higher lol) but how in the hell do you get to lvl 56, and not know what a fury or custom set is?

That was very generous of you to give him the set. I have also seen alot of players like this, but not just without the knowledge of sets. That is minimal. I had seen a player last night at level 61 I believe and this player had no idea what a daily quest was. She was asking for help thinking her quests were broken and no one was answering her so I went to ask if I could help. Her issue was that quests kept coming back in mt fang and she never seen any bug like this. She was very nice so I showed her around fang and explained daily quests vs regular quests to the best of my knowledge. Hopefully others will be nice to her as well and not simply call her a noob. From what I gathered she bought plat and payed to be leveled quickly by players who charged. Along the way she wasn't offered any knowledge of the game and that is sad. I am hoping she doesn't just up and quit because of other people taking advantage of her. This is why I personally don't like power leveling without helping a player with the idea of gameplay. I am not trying to make myself sound great here, but rather bring up a point that so many have seen before. Its sad to say the least that a player will most likely be booted for not knowing what to do. It is our duty in my eyes to fix what others have broken....

[Doubletime]

There are some pretty good points that I think may have been overlooked in the big hurry to condemn "power leveling". As Elly said, you have yo understand the origins of the term as it was used dating back a bit in time. While PL isn't that old, it has gone through several phases. Back in the Alien Oasis campaign, many people realized there was a one particular screen you could run over and over again for great xp and time. Think of the old Crush The Keeper runs when trying to hit 50. Well people began using these screens to level alts (or mains) to the level cap by simply tagging along and leeching. As Zuesabe said - the old references to power leveling was really a reference to leeching xp. And what is refered to as the Mynas (from King Mynas) Generation was born. A lot of people with high level toons that did not have a real good understanding of class dynamics, skill rotation, group strategies, etc. The developers have done many many things to try and correct some of these problems such as minimum level requirements, but there are always work arounds. But when people refer to power leveling in a negative light, they are referring to the idea of leveling a toon with no real idea of how to play the class.

And yes - PL is a casual mmo. And yes, it is not a complicated game. But I question anyone who thinks they can pick up all there is to know about a class or particular toon in a matter of days. And there is a difference between casual players and those that are serious about game mechanics. But it takes time and play to learn combo timing, not just self combos but groups and megas, to learn skill rotations based on class make-up, and to learn the styles and player types you will be grouping with in-game. So it does take time and work to learn a toon. That may be as you level gradually or later - but learn your class from top to bottom. There is a lot more to game play than button mashing. And powerleveling/leeching can make you forget that.

And yes - elixer use can cause the same learning difficencies as leeching. Elixers give you overpowered armor and damage. So you never have to worry about technique as you can just rush kill your way through every board. I am confident the group of players coming up now will be referred to as the "Elixer Gen" and many of the same complaints will be made about their playstyle. But it is up to the player to decide how they want to play. We can't police "good" play. There will always be good and bad players - the real difference here is that with PL you can actually decide which you want to be in the end.

[zeusabe]

Overall, leeching is a forgetten "art" of cheating the game, it's actually one of the most classic ways to shortcut grinding together with botting. It has grown to a point where they sugarcoated it, hence, the term power leveling, the thirst for power in-game has been recognized by the majority of the hardcore gamers and game developers alike which explains the existence of private servers where game sliders are present (ring a bell? *cough* elixirs *cough*), at first, private servers were taboo since it's simply another way of cheating the nature of leveling up and capping, which is normally "limiting" to address balance, but these private servers remove those limits (for instance, the official game level caps at 99, but private server caps at 150...3 times less xp requirement and 10 times drop rate) to break an MMO wide open for people who were so deprived in the original version (wow...is PL a private server? LOL). The nature of PL itself is a result of that "private server" era in MMO gaming, hence, PL will never be as structured as your typical pay-to-play MMO, the nature of PL itself is against it, which means, there will be a lot of game "cheats" including power leveling. Just a trivia, back in old RPG's such as Maple Story, the moment you're discovered as a leecher aka as power leveler (today), you will actually get banned (temporarily), how do they find out? GM's aka Devs lurk in the game as invisible characters monitoring random games (I so wanted that job, imagine, play an MMO and get paid? OMG) and if they catch you leeching, that's tantamount to a temporary ban, that is how the taboo started for leechers and is still present today. Note, some of the leechers who were discovered then were actually very good PVPers, but they got banned nonetheless, so the noob-ishness of a player was NEVER attributed to leeching, if you suck in game it means nothing else, you just suck in it period. Realize that any MMO's do not encourage or make players feel helpful to newcomers (hence, tutorials, hence, easier mobs in low level dungeons, the game is telling you to LEARN on your own, what are you handicapped? LOL), it's still up to each player if they want to help, so if you'll help a new comer and allow him to leech then congrats you just created a monster because this dude you just helped will probably try to leech his way to level cap (or maybe mutate to gold begging). Personally, I never helped anyone in game as far as leveling, it was always party-based group effort all at same level. Disagree that it's a responsibility to help new comers, they should learn the game on their own, if they can't, then play something else, MMO's were never designed for newbies of gaming in general, in fact, it's considered as one the more serious genre's around...up there with puzzle rpg's. It's a jungle, kill or be killed, that theme most, if not all, put life to the current titans of MMO's, in fact, an MMO franchise sprouted simply by promoting wars and conflicts and not being nice LOL (Guildwars 1 and 2). The only reason why people are feeling more "helpful" in PL is because the game is too EASY, they have so much time in their hands and the content is too shallow, but try playing the more hardcore MMO's, the term help is probably ten times rarer than a Mt. Fang pink. You'll probably say, this isn't a hardcore MMO, but if you love this game, you'll want it to be otherwise the best days of PL are over, and by you acting like a player from that taboo era (the era where the best MMO's started to go down), then good luck to PL. Sorry, this is really off-topic, but I just can't help but share my thoughts on the deeper side of things. So much to say but...I'm starting to feel lazy now LOL. Thanks.

[KTpantyhose]

For one it takes away the experience of leveling and meeting friends. if you have someone power leveling you you're not really learning how to use your skills and etc wisely.. so once you're done power leveling you might not be as skilled as you'd hope. Also if you're too busy being power leveled you're not as likely to meet friends along the way who you enjoy playing with. Those are just some of my thoughts. I don't enjoy power leveling people. They get greedy and expect it of you every time you log on. Plus it takes away of things you want to accomplish yourself.

[Elyseon]

Lets just take my first bird as an example, got him to 50 in a week, started plasma pyramid runs at lvl5, i remember trying to do a quest in balefort at 50, i was a warbird and i didnt know how to kill with skills, it was pitiful, if u want noob players who cant do anything alone or support the party at all, go with powerleveling

[Elyseon]

I was feeling very generous, and gave him an extra fury set I had (which he told me his gear was better because the dmg was higher lol)

Yeh of course this could be from sts's one menu tip: 'choose the weapon with the best dps(damage per second)'

[zeusabe]

Being noob has got nothing to do with power leveling, when you power level, it means you still participate in the battle but let a higher level do most of the work for you, it's highly improbable for a new player not to even be curious to test his skills to a degree of understanding the mechanic, well if that were the case for you in the past then, with all respect, you were a bad player overall and power leveling has got nothing to do with it. Probably even without power leveling, you would have been inefficient longer than most. Personally, I know of some players in-game who power leveled till around those levels (50), and yet, had the fundamentals of knowing what to be in a party but not really extra ordinary to the point of being a highly valued party member but they get the job done. Decent players know just by watching how to play a game (PVE), I can watch a youtube video of a dungeon run and probably do a couple of practices and adapt to it, it's not really rocket science. What I'm saying is, powerleveling is not the cause of being a bad player, being a bad player in itself is a unique case, power leveling is a cheat but it's not a cause of anything, it's just there to annoy people.

[Aikiebo]

Power leveling, when done correctly, is the absolute best way to become highly trained and an excellent player.

The problem is, and why people get so upset, is that people are remembering Mynas Gen and how awful that was. There are dozens of different forms of power leveling. Mynas Gen/leaching IS THE WORSE.

But, power leveing is an amazing way to turn new/average or even good players into FANTASTIC players.

If you go to Baskin Robins and try one flavor of ice cream and hate it. There is no reason to give up on the idea of ice cream just cause one flavor sucks.

I have said this a hundred times. The devs didn't nerf Mynas Gen because power leveling is bad, they nerfed it because people were abusing it. And ANY abuse or exploit needs to end ASAP.

Anything can be abused. The fact that we have in-game coin, gold, can be abused. To this day, there are people trying to con other players into "gold-duping" scams. Should we get rid of gold, no. I see mid and high levels all the time in fh trying to pawn off useless junk to new players for inflated prices. Should we get rid of the rarity system? Should we mute high levels when they go to fh? No, to both. Just cuz something is abused, don't mean we need to get rid of it.

There are two things to know about power leveling.
1. MILLIONS of gamers love to power level.
2. Power Leveling is supposed to produce better players.

Mynas Gen was awful. But, just like ice cream has 31 flavors, power leveling comes in many "flavors" also.

I know that the forum community, considers power leveling to be just the Mynas Gen variety. Why, well, because of the experience that people have had with it in this game. But, THERE IS A GIGANTIC HUGE VARIETY OF WAYS TO POWER LEVEL THAT ARE EXCELLENT.

And by excellent I mean two things:

1. More training = better players.
2. Power leveling attracts players cuz not everyone wants to go thru hundreds of hours to level. Many people want to level fast. Let 'em. It's their game.

[Aikiebo]

Edited cuz didnt mean to double post