Another GUILD-KICKER detected

[javier995]

Hi, Javier and thank you for making the forums safe!

As you might notice, i've been exploring forums and its rules for some time. And more than once i've been asking if i may or may not do smth. And you, as well as BodMaster and other guys helped me to understand ethics of the community - thank you for that! And as you may remember, even when i got scammed i didn't call the name

But this case, i believe, is totally different. I explain - the griefer was not just openly telling the poor GM that he DID it, but he was mocking poor guy making fun of his trust. And also, he was doing this so boldly, that i assume the GM could trust him about being unpunishable.. In this case i decided to risk and get penalty from Sam, but to let you guys to know his IGN, just because i know how hard it is - to assemble guild and then watch as it vanishes member after member on your eyes.. (it happened once with Jedi Council and being just an Officer there i could not kick the kicker, but only typed 'wait,dude, what r u doin? Stop plz' - pathetic feelings, bro)

Any griefer is a serious threat for the in-game ecosystem and while GM might (or might not) write to the support team, this very griefer could slaughter another guild (or two)

So, i think SUCH cases are THE cases to uncover griefers' names here - especially understanding the fact that most GMs are hiring or discussing guild matters in this topic and can be warned and thus, prepared

Ready for the penalty, if my assumptions are wrong

Your true Jedi, Flashbackflip

May the Force be with you

I highly doubt you'll get a penalty, you might just be told not to call out people on forums.

Hey if I knew this happened I would do the same thing! Just you know, rules:/.

Care to do me a favor? Since you where there, email support and tell them the situation. Give a full detailed report on the subject, and there will be consequences for said griefer. No gm will need to worry about him anymore, since punishment is perma ban I believe.


May your force stay with you!

*goes back to the sith side to spy on potential griefers*

[flashbackflip]

Care to do me a favor? Since you where there, email support and tell them the situation

It's done, bro

[nomad187]

I think he had every right to be called out here on forums. I was present when he was gloating about what he did.

I agree that in this situation, the person should be called out. This is the second person (OP was the first) to witness a public admittance of doing this. These are both nuetral parties to what happened. Plus, they did notify STS via email on top of posting here.

However, in most instances I don't think names should be called out for the reasons stated above. Most scams aren't scams, most rushers call others rushers, etc.

I highly doubt you'll get a penalty, you might just be told not to call out people on forums *BY ME*

Corrected...

I ssy this partially in jest, and partially in seriousness. From what I have observed, you are generally the first one to call some one out for this. While I do agree that in almost all cases a persons name shouldn't be called out, I also believe that it should be left to the moderators to correct people when they break an unwritten forum rule. Go back and look through your post. A lot of them are calling soneone out for breaking an unwritten rule. That's the reason you get called out as a "forum police".

[javier995]

Corrected...

I ssy this partially in jest, and partially in seriousness. From what I have observed, you are generally the first one to call some one out for this. While I do agree that in almost all cases a persons name shouldn't be called out, I also believe that it should be left to the moderators to correct people when they break an unwritten forum rule. Go back and look through your post. A lot of them are calling soneone out for breaking an unwritten rule. That's the reason you get called out as a "forum police".

Have you thought that maybe I'm the 'first' one because I use the forums a lot? The devs don't have the time to go through every thread and 'correct' people.

I'm not 'correcting' him either, I simply said that he shouldn't do it. Now you obviously don't know me, so don't say a lot of my posts are calling people out for breaking unwritten rules. I take it you don't like for whatever reason it is, be so kind as to use the ignore button. I've only seen you call me a 'forum police', so why do you say it huh?

Do you see me 'correct' every mistake someone makes? No you don't, because obviously you don't see all my posts if you're making such broad statements about my posts.

Next time you try and call me out, don't even try. For every post that you say I 'correct' someone, I can easily find a hundred more where I have helped someone.

If I was 'calling' him out, my post would've been completely different. Don't try and troll me by attempting to 'correct' my post, there is no correcting to be made. If I needed to correct anything I had said, I'd use the Edit button.

If you have any problems with me being a 'forum police', write me a message and tell me there. Don't try and call me out on a thread. That also goes for anyone that thinks I'm a 'forum police', inbox me about it.

Ty for your time.

-Javier

[flashbackflip]

Have you thought that maybe I'm the 'first' one because I use the forums a lot? The devs don't have the time to go through every thread and 'correct' people.

I'm not 'correcting' him either, I simply said that he shouldn't do it. Now you obviously don't know me, so don't say a lot of my posts are calling people out for breaking unwritten rules. I take it you don't like for whatever reason it is, be so kind as to use the ignore button. I've only seen you call me a 'forum police', so why do you say it huh?

Do you see me 'correct' every mistake someone makes? No you don't, because obviously you don't see all my posts if you're making such broad statements about my posts.

Next time you try and call me out, don't even try. For every post that you say I 'correct' someone, I can easily find a hundred more where I have helped someone.

If I was 'calling' him out, my post would've been completely different. Don't try and troll me by attempting to 'correct' my post, there is no correcting to be made. If I needed to correct anything I had said, I'd use the Edit button.

If you have any problems with me being a 'forum police', write me a message and tell me there. Don't try and call me out on a thread. That also goes for anyone that thinks I'm a 'forum police', inbox me about it.

Ty for your time.

-Javier

I second that Javier is a very helpful guy (and first to say 'hello' to me when i made my first post)))

Also, his first 'police-llike' post here is not a 'police-like' at all! He just pointed to the rule (and i'm grateful for that) and started this interesting discussion

Javier, dont take it personally, bro! It's always a chance to be misunderstood

Peace

[Redbridge]

I agree, it would be great to call ppl out who ruin our game, but there is no guarantee that the facts are adhered to, and often naming/shaming results in major drama.

I have to say though this thread debates the issue really well and it would be nice for the devs to respond with their views.

My policy is, normally, to refrain from naming but just report to STS and let them deal privately. I often don't know the full facts/context so it's best to let them collate the evidence and progress the issue best way they see fit. I mostly don't even post it on forums as if the person is innocent or there are underlying reasons for their behaviour (personal problems, etc) I'd hate to think I'd be adding further to their problems.

In this case I think there is a genuine need for the community and in particular the Guild Leaders and Officers to be made aware swifter than STS are normally able to deal. I think I'd have posted the name but added proof of the conversation, with a disclaimer stating "Have reported & in case this is genuine have posted for all Guild Leaders/officers info only" I'd have then closed the thread to avoid further discussion, but I'm not sure everyone can closed their own threads.

Maybe the Guild Leaders and Officers can get together to forum some sort of Group to allow swift communication on this sort of stuff... Not sure what the best solution would be.

Great Thread with some quality answers. Sweet.

[Onaraasider]

Hi guys!

A couple of hours ago i witnessed a conversation in BS lounge

One guy was angry the other one kicked about ALL THE MEMBERS from his guild

That 'other' one was just laughin at him telling that he is unpunishable as he did it within game rules: started as member, was good, got Officer rank and after 3 weeks kicked everybody..

Beware!

The name is__________

May the force be with ya

*corrected*

[Kahlua]

*corrected*

*sigh*

Did you even read the other posts before replying?

[Slant]

if name calling is tolerated it just gets in more drama, and some people seriously cannot tell the difference between griefing and agressive playing, or scamming and agressive merching, ive seen people on ucs say they have been scammed, but what really happened was that they were unhappy about the trade after the trade, so zero tolerence for name calling really is the best way to go here, doesnt take much to post a name lol, if a player feels another player has violated the TOS, then it should be taken up with support instead of involving everybody
and this rarely happen to well built guilds really, where the guild is properly structured with an even distribution of officers, recruiters and members online at any given point of time

[Snakespeare]

Individual disputes must be resolved by an impartial third party, in this case, Sam. The messageboard is for generally talking about problems, sharing tips, etc., and not for individual disputes. They just don't want that energy here.

But I can think of other reasons for this "nettiquette" rule. First, if you call someone out, their friends might rush to their defense. I used to play with someone of the same name and he quit about nine months ago. He actually rage quit and gave away all his stuff. I got some, I know. So, if this is my old friend, I have a hard time believing it. he must have deleted his main and now this other guy is using it. But as you can see, the first thing I am going to think twhen I read his name here is that the OP must have a personal vendetta about my old friend and what he posted can't possibly be true.

But it is not for me to decide that. See? I am not an impartial third party.

So.... I agree with the one who posted "fixed" and I think you should go back and remove the name from the OP.

on the other hand, I do feel for ya... It would really upset me if this happened in my guild!

Remember, they are paying Sam to do this, we don't need to resolve it with mob rule.

[StompArtist]

Individual disputes must be resolved by an impartial third party, in this case, Sam. The messageboard is for generally talking about problems, sharing tips, etc., and not for individual disputes. They just don't want that energy here.

But I can think of other reasons for this "nettiquette" rule. First, if you call someone out, their friends might rush to their defense. I used to play with someone of the same name and he quit about nine months ago. He actually rage quit and gave away all his stuff. I got some, I know. So, if this is my old friend, I have a hard time believing it. he must have deleted his main and now this other guy is using it. But as you can see, the first thing I am going to think twhen I read his name here is that the OP must have a personal vendetta about my old friend and what he posted can't possibly be true.

But it is not for me to decide that. See? I am not an impartial third party.

So.... I agree with the one who posted "fixed" and I think you should go back and remove the name from the OP.

on the other hand, I do feel for ya... It would really upset me if this happened in my guild!

Remember, they are paying Sam to do this, we don't need to resolve it with mob rule. Unless the mob is lead by the wonderful amazing and brilliant player called StompArtist. Then it's all good.

Corrected.

[morfic]

Guild kickers and scammers deserve to be called out on the forums. If someone purposefully scams someone out of items, people NEED to know asap, so that they can avoid trading with them. Same goes for guild kickers. Its urgent to know asap.

IMO of course.

[Ellyidol]

Hope this doesn't happen to your guild!

It won't

IMO, calling them out has to be put into context. Although he (the booter) is mostly at fault, there's question on why he became an officer in the first place. As far as I know, that's what the recruiter rank is for. Again, both sides to every story. We only hear the guild's side. With the odds, that booter has a forum account, comes to this thread, ignites flames, the rest is history and adds to why calling out isn't exactly encouraged.

However, if you have someone that is fully at fault (hacker, actual cheater, etc), by all means call him out. Remember that thread when someone pointed out a bot by calling them out? That thread only did good as far as I know.

[BodMaster]

I have to agree with some of these points tho, when the story isnt just black and white and there is a shade of grey it would depend on the member telling the story. (sorry to name you but your above my post) say Elly did the same as the OP believing that it was needed as this had become a massive problem, and is easily shown as 'ruining someone else's game experience'. Who is to say that he was right or wrong in doing so? Also as his reputation and respect in this community proceeds him who would judge? (though he prob would bring it up with STS directly either if they did or not )

I seriously think that a previous suggestion should be looked into, as where an 'Officer' should only be able to boot say 5 members per day (24hrs). If there was a disband, you would just ask the party to leave the guild, which im sure they would if this was to happen. This would cut down these attempts massively, and the 5 that did get booted would be re-recruited with no problem, if you weren't sure who either a log could be introduced for the GM or a simple msg from STS support naming these 5-10 (48hrs).

Totally off subject i know, but it would be beneficial to members and STS in general for something like this to be implemented.

[flashbackflip]

an 'Officer' should only be able to boot say 5 members per day (24hrs). This would cut down these attempts massively, and the 5 that did get booted would be re-recruited with no problem. If you weren't sure who either a log could be introduced for the GM or a simple msg from STS support naming these 5-10 (48hrs).

I really want to thank BodMaster for this smart suggestion and to highlight this for Sam or other devs who might lookup this thread. This WILL help!!

Hey, bro, will you post it to 'feedback and suggestions'?

[Deathpunch]

Because when you do we only know your side of the story. You could be lying for all we know and another's person's rep has been tarnished because of it. I'm not saying you ARE lying, I'm just saying that's how it could happen and that's why it's best to just email support and let STS handle it in private. For example, I could start the same exact thread as you but say it was you booting from my guild when in fact it never happened. You're a member of the forums so you could defend yourself if you saw it but if you weren't a member or even if you didn't see it for a few days, your reputation could suffer before it all gets sorted out.

Of course, the accused is just as free to come on here and defend their "honor" as the op is to come on here and call them out for being a griefing dirtbag.

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Sent from my Evo 3D

[Snakespeare]

Of course, the accused is just as free to come on here and defend their "honor" as the op is to come on here and call them out for being a griefing dirtbag.

-----
Sent from my Evo 3D

But that would cause a fight, which is why it's not wise.

[Deathpunch]

But that would cause a fight, which is why it's not wise.

Sort of like what's already happened in here?

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Sent from my Evo 3D

[flashbackflip]

Sort of like what's already happened in here?

Can't agree about we fight here.. Seems more like a constructive discussion with 'pros' and 'cons'

[CriostalCamhaoir]

I think he had every right to be called out here on forums. I was present when he was gloating about what he did. I sent a detailed email to STS and also talked to the GM of the guild he did it to. The GM as well reported him and he will hopefully be banned. The booter believes he did nothing wrong and was really talking it all up on how he did in B* lobby. To answer the question of "how did he even become an officer?" What are we supposed to do? Never report anyone to the officer rank? The booter didn't gain officer over night. He went out of his way to be nice to his GM, he was helpful and showed that he was trusting and worth the position. The GM believed he was his friend. Then once he obtained the position waited to boot the members. The guild has taken a stance against him though and as I knew yesterday that they had obtained more than 200 of their members back. Hopefully this person will be banned for life, but unfortunately somoetimes it can't be avoided. You have to trust your instincts and your gut as a GM.