1.7.5 Content Update (75561)

[Snakespeare]

Oh Atlannie, I think you are right! How dumb of me.

Yeah, I am talking about the general wave of cynicism that has hit the boards. I am definitely not saying you do this. I'm saying that human beings find it easy to trash things, but it takes a lot more effort to suggest improvements.

And you are right, there are many good suggestions for improvement. And that IS the purpose of feedback.

I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes accidentally.

Generally, the "nattering naysayers of negativity" aren't helping, and I was just saying that, just because there are a lot of them right now and it's cool to be down on others, that doesn't mean that they are contributing anything worthwhile.

[Weak_Sauce]

Edited, topic all ready covered.

[kallima]

@Snake - you did come off a bit harsh as there have been plenty of good ideas in suggestions/feedback thread for new content etc. Some of these naysayers like Whoisthis, Pharcyde, and many others have made separate threads in the correct section. Basically the devs have said that the reason why they reuse many backgrounds/themes is due to the limitations of mobile apps, I have no clue about the technical aspect so will take their word for it.

My negativity concerns issues that have yet to be answered. The ever increasing direction of a plat driven PL. Most recently their "solution" to the level anywhere and access all maps lixir. Instead of fixing a problem they themselves recognized "maintaining LB integrity" and "unskilled players a a result of power leveling," they just decided to make it more expensive. As a community, several solutions were offerred and none were applied.

Until they justify those aforementioned issues or implement a true fix, I will continue to voice my "negative" opinions various ways, by repeating it ad nauseum (until I get a real answer), refraining from any add'l plat purchases, and keeping my rating for them in both ios and android market.

[Snakespeare]

No way, kall... I'm not talking about the same things as you. You're referring to very specific problems for which we all have given some suggestions. What I am referring to is the "lack of creativity" trope that keeps getting repeated. I assert that these folks wouldn't know creativity if it hit them on the head. The game engine is based on modular construction. It makes about as much sense to complain about the similarity of the modules as it does to complain about the key a song is written in or the alphabet a person uses when they write a poem. All artists have limitations in their medium of some sort. In my opinion, they have done excellent work within their limitations.

But the specific issues you are talking about do need to be addressed. We don't disagree.

I am so glad I don't have 10,000 teens thinking it's cool to insult MY work.

[kallima]

And yes, it would be difficult to receive 10,000 criticisms from teens of varying age but that is the business in which they work - they market it for a demographic that goes well under and above "teen." Some, not all teens are surprisingly elouent and thoughtful, but those that aren't are also limited by their life experience. I could say the same for adults.

Honestly, I understand what you are saying but there will be contrarians and brown-nosers everywhere and originally I thought you were lumping all the naysayers together - but consider that the lack of backing up that "trope" is a direct result of already exhausting all your attempts at being heard. There have been many in-depth and lengthy threads, to have to repeatedly justify "a lack of creativity" every time its stated gets redundant. All I have to do is check the feedback thread to know that those most VOCAL have also voiced their ideas for improvements to no avail. Hence, the frequency of the one-liners.

[Moogerfooger]

I fail at subsequent-post-reading-comprehension

(Soz, snake.)

[Snakespeare]

Gee, moogerfooger, I thought I had made a clear distinction between the "sane/thought-out/grounded feedback" and the people who are just bashing other people's work because they are bored.

[Snakespeare]

After chatting it over in chatbox I came to understand that I wasn't very clear.

I guess I feel the phrase "lacking in creativity" to be a nasty slight on the work of others, and I would think those things (that they wouldn't know creativity if it bit them on the nose) of anyone who said it of me.

We discussed the concept and others felt that the idea was an important one to convey even though nobody could define it beyond repeating what the dictionary said. So while I find it vaguely denigrating to say that about other people, and I would never say it, apparently I am in the minority.

[Aikiebo]

This thread is supposed to be about this patch. The patch that brought us the WF update.

People were upset because they did not have cheap or free acess to farming winter pinks and because they think that STS is not listening to them.

But, the fact is there is no reason why anyone should have free or cheap access to pink farming. In fact, it would hurt the game if they did. Also, just because someone gives an idea and STS doesn't implement it doesn't mean they didn't listen. All it means is that someone else had a better idea.

WF content is optional. It does not impact the core game at all. You can play this entire game free without spending a penny on plat. If someone can't figure out how to play this game plat free and still have huge fun then that person isn't much of a gamer. Everytime I read that someone thinks that STS is forcing them to buy plat, I crack up laughing.

Yes, some people gave constructive criticism without spamming, raging, lobbying, flaming or ranting. But most posts were not constructive. So, I am not refering to anyone who choose to help the game instead of hurt it. I realize that no one was trying to hurt anything, but that is what happened.

But Rage Fest 2011 all boils down to 1. some players wanted free or cheap access to holiday pinks and/or 2. some players feel that buying a lot of plat and/or being a veteran should give them more clout.

The reason why WF costs plat to play is so that STS can raise funds. It is people buying all sorts of optional items that is making this game even possible. Players who love the game should hope that STS makes TONS of money off of WF. We cannot have new content, fresh content, creative content, epic content or any content at all if STS is not hugely profitable.

Just cause someone gives an idea. Even if they give that same ol' idea 200 times. If STS doesn't implement that idea, that doesn't mean that they didn't listen, all it means is that someone else had a better idea. And by better idea, I mean something that was more helpful than the first idea.

But, just because every idea that someone has isn't going to be implement, doesn't mean that people's ideas aren't important. If you buy a lot of plat and/or a veteran, you're opinions are highly valued. But, when all the dust settles, STS has to do what is best for the game. You would too, if you were them.

I suggest that people stop complaining that Winter Fest isn't cheap. It would hurt the game if it was.

[kallima]

@Aikiebo - i thought you were going to keep your posts shorter?

As someone that managed their family's business(es) and having held numerous supervisory position in the corporate world as well, I an tell you that ALL feedback is valuable. Complaints (and compliments) are what keep a business relevant, encourage them to stay competitive, and help them improve on weakenesses, both predicted and unforeseen. But it is their voice to do with as they please. Suggesting that people stop complaining, no matter how politely it's done, is quite presumptuous.

I think you misunderstand our statements or views. Let me make this clear, I'm pretty sure EVERYONE wants STS to thrive - their complaints are an attempt to make it better. WE are the same people who did NOT need to buy plat for their 1yr anniversary, but did so as a THANK YOU, to show our appreciation. I hardly think those actions indicate anything else other than a true desire to see STS flourish. WE ALL UNDERSTAND it's a business - but businesses can increase revenue a multitude of ways other than increasing the pricepoint (and in this case a VERY steep spike). There is more than one way to succeed in business other than gouging a loyal customer base.

As far as ideas go, we are not self-centered children who expect our every whimsy to be indulged, but when we ask very pertinent questions about why they contradicted their OWN statements - and we don't get an answer - that's NOT listening.

Yes, there were some rage posts (by both sides, I might add) but don't take our words out of context. I don't think I read one single post that said, "I'm a veteran, therefore my opinion matters more." As far as your other point concerning ragefest '11 - some did want free, some wanted discounted - but mainly we wanted a heads-up that such an extreme price hike was coming. Have you seen the fallout when petro companies raise their rates (STS essentially charged 10plat last year & using average customer runs from '10 - increasesd it by a minimum of 10x that amount for '11, of course it's not going to be pretty. Again, I will state that there are other ways for a company to be successful.

[Aikiebo]

I can tell you that ALL feedback is valuable.

Suggesting that people stop complaining is quite presumptuous.

but businesses can increase revenue a multitude of ways other than increasing the pricepoint

As far as ideas go, we are not self-centered children who expect our every whimsy to be indulged, but when we ask very pertinent questions about why they contradicted their OWN statements - and we don't get an answer - that's NOT listening.

but don't take our words out of context. I don't think I read one single post that said, "I'm a veteran, therefore my opinion matters more."

but mainly we wanted a heads-up that such an extreme price hike was coming. Have you seen the fallout when petro companies raise their rates

I will state that there are other ways for a company to be successful.

My negativity concerns issues that have yet to be answered. The ever increasing direction of a plat driven PL. As a community, several solutions were offerred and none were applied.

Until they justify those aforementioned issues or implement a true fix, I will continue to voice my "negative" opinions various ways, by repeating it ad nauseum (until I get a real answer)

Hey!

First, lets focus on the things that I think we ALL agree on, ok?

This thread is about the WF update - nothing else. Agree?

Customer feedback is vital to any business. Agree?

One reason STS gave us this forum is that we could give them our feedback. Agree?

Forum members, even if they are mad, are not supposed to lobby, flame, rage, or otherwise troll? Agree?

Forum members, even if they are really, really, really mad, are not supposed to lobby, flame, rage, or otherwise troll? Agree?

Players who buy lots of plat should not have more clout. Agree?

Veterans should not have more clout. Agree?

STS is a business that needs to profit in order to make their games even better than they are now. Agree?

STS should listen to all feedback and then choose what, if any, they will implement. Agree?

STS must, i.e. they have to, choose NOT to implement ideas that are NOT as helpful as other ideas. The better ideas win. Agree?

Just because an idea wasn't implemented, doesn't mean that it wasn't heard. This is true anywhere in the universe. Agree?

Some ideas are better than others. This is also true anywhere in the universe. Agree?

Anecdotal evidence sucks. Humanoids in other galaxies put their fingers down their throats to mock anecdotal evidence. Agree?

STS should use data (market research, player spending patterns, etc.) in addition to verbal feedback when making decisions. Agree?

STS should listen to ALL players not just the ones who use the forums. Agree?

The founders and employees of STS have far more information than the players. Agree?

Therefore, STS has a much better idea of what is best for the company and the games. Agree?

Platinum sales has been the primary way that STS gets income. Agree?

If anyone has suggestions on how STS can increase their profits besides raising plat prices or spamming us with other companies advertising, they should submit those ideas. Agree?

If there are no other ideas that would actually work then there is no point in whining about high prices. Agree?

STS has the right to base their prices on what they think is best for the game and their company. Agree?

STS uses player feedback, data and gut instinct to determine prices. Agree?

If a player doesn't want to pay those prices, they don't have to. Agree?

STS uses player feedback, data and gut instinct to make changes in gameplay. Agree?

STS has always answered players when they asked why a certain gameplay change has been made. Agree?

Some players don't like the explanation STS gave. So, instead of accepting the fact that this is STS's game, they have a ton more information than any of the players, and they are doing what is best for the game, some players just proclaim that no answer was ever given even tho one was. Agree?

If a player only wants the Winter Fest vanities, they can get them cheaper this year than last year. Agree?

The only players that need to spend very much plat on WF at all are farmers and collectors. Agree?

If players want to benefit from farming or collecting, they should have to invest. Agree?

If players want to do a lot of farming or collecting they should have to invest more than those who just want to do a little bit of farming or collecting. Agree?

Players have only claimed to have three problems with this WF update. They want free or cheap access to pinks, they are upset because they don't feel their feedback is being heard and they wanted more notice about the changes. Agree?

It has been established that any other pricing plan would be unfair to all players and hurt the game by bringing in less revenue. Agree?

It has been established that just because a piece of feedback isn't immediately implemented doesn't mean it wasn't heard and isn't valued. Agree?

The biggest problem with the 2-plat per run was the shock, surprise and confusion. Agree?

STS has acknowledged this and has vowed to change the way things are communicated. Agree?

They are already doing a fantastic job. Agree?

If a player can create games as good as these, AND continue to stay ahead of the competition AND at all times make EVERYONE happy, that player should do so. Because we would all love to see that. Agree?

In fact, those humonoids from those other galaxies would fly their spaceships all the way to Earth because they'd love to see this also. Agree?

[kallima]

@Aikiebo

As much as I would like to continue this discourse ad infinitum, I feel it would be a dis-service to others because I do not want for anyone's feedback to get lost in a circular argument between our posts, which for better or worse is unduly taking up space.

I will keep it short and sweet - disagree. If you want to know why, we can handle it via pm because I am bot going to promote bogging down this thread with long-winded arguments.

Cheers and happy holidays.

[Aikiebo]

Every major concern that players on this forum have voiced have been responded to by the devs. For example, some players do not like the low-level xp anywhere elixrs. The devs have repeatedly answered players questions about this. They have said that the purpose of this elixir is so that players can play the game with their friends or guild mates. When concern was voiced that this could be abused, the devs raised the price to 60 plat an hour. Several times this was explained that it was designed to curtail abuse. Just because a few players may not agree with what the devs are doing, doesn't mean they haven't addressed concerns. They do a better job than the devs on other games.

Btw, if you want a good laugh, Google "anecdotal evidence".

For now, this is all, I'm taking off for the holiday. I hope everyone has a wonderful time, Many warm regards to all.

[Tsarra]

Every major concern that players on this forum have voiced have been responded to by the devs. For example, some players do not like the low-level xp anywhere elixrs. The devs have repeatedly answered players questions about this. They have said that the purpose of this elixir is so that players can play the game with their friends or guild mates. When concern was voiced that this could be abused, the devs raised the price to 60 plat an hour. Several times this was explained that it was designed to curtail abuse. Just because a few players may not agree with what the devs are doing, doesn't mean they haven't addressed concerns. They do a better job than the devs on other games.

Btw, if you want a good laugh, Google "anecdotal evidence".

For now, this is all, I'm taking off for the holiday. I hope everyone has a wonderful time, Many warm regards to all.

Man, I am seeing this all over the internet today. I work with a guy just like YOU, too. Geez, interwebz.

Merry Christmas and all that.

[lionblaze149]

I agree that it should be a 1-time purchase, but does everyone need to get so upset? Alls thats really on the line are items? In the long run, would you pay a ton of money for virtual money? I wouldn't.

[Bwahahagirl]

I think that this "pay per entry" thing wasn't a smart idea, but it's not like anyone's making you pay it. I decided not to participate in the festival this year. I just put on my antlers and said "happy holidays" on the sidelines. If you don't want to pay, then why would you?

[Swimmingstar]

This died down...

[kallima]

Eh, it's Jan 5, horse is dead and I'm tired of beating it.

[Aikiebo]

Eh, it's Jan 5, horse is dead and I'm tired of beating it.

Winter Fest is still going on. And, I'm glad the only people who determine if a post is acceptable are the devs.

But, you know, you guys that went on those long rants and raged on so much, well, you kinda got me thinking that, well, maybe you're on to something. Let's see.

You wanted STS to implement some sort of pass so that players could access Winter Fest content cheaply. The "logic" that came handcuffed to the pass idea was that STS would actually make MORE money because.........oh yeah, "so many more people would buy the pass". Now........ isn't that just the cutest little win-win you ever saw!

I'm thinking a lot of businesses should develop some sort of pass - like a monthly pass. Everybody likes a cute win-win.

For instance, instead of Starbucks charging us for every cup of coffe we order, they could sell us a pass so that we can order as many cups of coffee as we want for that whole month.

Hmmm.......... I wonder if that would be profitable.

Well, they certainly would sell lots and lots and lots of passes. I'm sure their little stores would be mobbed every minute of every day with people trying to get something for....well, for practically nothing.

And if the goal of a business was ONLY to have lots of customers, then the pass idea would work great.

But the goal is to make a profit. You have to sell your product at a price that will make a profit. Once you have decided how much to charge, THEN you can try to get a lot of customers.

But, if you lose money on every cup that's sold, the pass idea wouldn't be a good one, would it?

Then of course, OUR FAVORITE, McDonalds, could sell us a pass where we could order as many Big Macs as we wanted to all month long. You could just go there every day as many times as you wanted to and order as many Big Macs as you want. How yummy!!

I wonder how many people would want to buy that pass? I bet you bunches of people would.

Unless, OH NO!!!! They had to make the pass hugely expensive. I mean a masssive, gigantic sum of money.

Hmmm.... well, it was an idea. Maybe Starbucks should just go on selling us one cup of coffee at a time. And maybe McDonalds should not print up too many of those expensive monthly passes - probably wouldn't be a huge seller.

The 2 plat per run for Winter Fest makes perfect sense. As we all know:

1. Winter Fest is OPTIONAL.

2. Free-2play games like Pocket Legends make their income from OPTIONAL content.

3. The free-2-play business model IS DESGINED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING so that only a small portion of players buy the optional content.

4. This benefits the other players who don't/can't spend money. They get to play the game for free.

5. Free-2-play video games is a multi-million dollar industry.

6. They all operate on this same principle. Everyone gets to play. The only people who pay are the ones that WANT to.

7. A Winter Fest all access pass would have to be so incredibly expensive. No one would buy it and everyone would scream about how unfair life is.

[kallima]

The thread pretty much died as swimming stated, I basically said same in a fun, light hearted way and we get yet another longvwinded reply. Do you just love to hear yourself talk? Here is a BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE since you seem to be in desperate need of it. Or better yet, here's my stick so you can continue to beat the same dead horse.

Brevity is a virtue.