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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    Endgame fox is a vert touchy subject. In terms of Honor arena i believe that having to main dex is what's truly holding them back. If foxes had a sword set that has similar statd of that for bear then I'd think the class would be much better. Now i don't believe that the problem with honor fox lies within the gear, it's the class that's at fault. Foxes arw easily stunable in team fights and most of their skills can be healed off. I rather not focus on buffing the defense of the class, considering that it's a assassin, but rather buffing it's offensive abilities.

    I believe that the skill "Fury" should give more than just Hit% stats starting at Level 7, similar to how bears "Iron Blood" received a giant buff towards their overall vitality. Fury could start giving a percentage of Damage and Crit the higher it rises. Ontop of that fury should also last a bit longer. Foxes should have the largest overall damage buff in the game yet it's dwarfed by bears. That shouldn't happen.
    Fox is an assassin and I take it as by definition of assassin needing a dex set. The class is relatively fine, people just don't put in the time to learn it.

    The bandage suggestion is a good one, I think lowering the cooldown even just 10 seconds would be a nice "quality of life" change (good wording on the original post's part). I would strongly advise against having fox be mainly a str-using class, it is an assassin at heart imo.

    On the point of evasion needing to last longer. I think increasing the duration of evasion while also marginally increasing the cooldown would be a good way forward. I would much prefer to have more armor and dodge for longer as opposed to:

    lowering the duration / cooldown and being able to unstun constantly but having less armor or dodge overall because of the lower duration. The prior is nicer to me. Just my thoughts.
    Last edited by Congeniality; 04-26-2020 at 04:08 PM.

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    Senior Member MageFFA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Congeniality View Post
    Fox is an assassin and I take it as by definition of assassin needing a dex set. The class is relatively fine, people just don't put in the time to learn it.

    The bandage suggestion is a good one, I think lowering the cooldown even just 10 seconds would be a nice "quality of life" change (good wording on the original post's part). I would strongly advise against having fox be mainly a str-using class, it is an assassin at heart imo.

    On the point of evasion needing to last longer. I think increasing the duration of evasion while also marginally increasing the cooldown would be a good way forward. I would much prefer to have more armor and dodge for longer as opposed to:

    lowering the duration / cooldown and being able to unstun constantly but having less armor or dodge overall because of the lower duration. The prior is nicer to me. Just my thoughts.
    How's the overall damage of the class? I've seen your videos on it and so far it seems like damage is a one true issue. You could be directly on top of a enemy and they will still come out victorious in some instances. I did not mean that foxes should have their attributes be formly changed towards STR, but instead to have a better means for balance similar to how birds will do better off with a longsword/hammer instead of a talon in twink.

    Buffing the dagger really wouldn't keep through to what a dagger is. Neither will buffing the defensive capabilities of Fox will make it a true assassin, but to add more damage towards the class could be a expection as long as it's balanced correctly.

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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    How's the overall damage of the class? I've seen your videos on it and so far it seems like damage is a one true issue. You could be directly on top of a enemy and they will still come out victorious in some instances. I did not mean that foxes should have their attributes be formly changed towards STR, but instead to have a better means for balance similar to how birds will do better off with a longsword/hammer instead of a talon in twink.

    Buffing the dagger really wouldn't keep through to what a dagger is. Neither will buffing the defensive capabilities of Fox will make it a true assassin, but to add more damage towards the class could be a expection as long as it's balanced correctly.
    The damage is incredibly front-loaded. By that I mean that at the beginning of the fight, my chance to win is dependent on if I can burst the opponent down in under 2-3 seconds. If the fight last longer than that, I typically lose, any shorter, and I have a good chance of winning. I of course speak for endgame because I haven't played enough fox twink (not enough below 66) to make a fair assessment.

    I myself enjoy this because it gives me a clear goal (kill my opponent in under 3 seconds), I can formulate ways I can try to make it happen (combos x,y or z), and if I don't succeed I am punished for it (I lose). That's how I think about endgame fox, and think that this bandage suggestion gets at a small quality of life issue fox has had for a long time without altering it's relative strength in PvP.

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    I agree with Walie's eloquently formulated assessment of Fox as an assassin. And I want to build on that.

    In the high-dmg Mythic endgame PvP and Twink Levels 22-40 (and I'd imagine QTR realms of twink PvP), Fox is doing well because she can kill within 2 seconds. With the recent addition of OPS she can compete in endgame.

    Fox, as an assassin, always has a chance to strive in extremely high-dmg PvP environment. You want to look for an opening to engage and kill your opponent within 1-2 seconds.

    Fox, as a bruiser, was played during 105 cap. It struggled because of the extremely high Bandage CD. Fights often lasted longer than 20 seconds and by that time every class except Fox would have their heal up for the 2nd time.
    Another thing Fox struggled with was the 15s unstun of Evasion. (wildly problematic in coordinated teamfights)
    It was often smarter to save Evasion for an inevitable stun and have another chance to rejoin the fight. Which is quite sad, because you essentially engaged on a fight without a vital buff.

    Suggestions as how to make Fox viable: Evasion CD reduced to 11s. 10s uptime, 1s downtime.
    Alternatively unstun moved to Fox Howl and CD increased from 5.5s to 8s.
    Rage Tonic CD reduced to 22-23s. 20s uptime, 2-3s downtime.
    Comparing this to Bird. Bird Evasion has 20s uptime, 22s CD, 2s downtime.
    Focus has 20s uptime, 21s CD, 1s downtime. (skills on Lvl 10)
    Avian Scream (unstun starting lvl 5?) 8s CD.
    The cooldowns would scale down with levels starting at lvl 6 as it is done with Fury, Focus and Bird's Evasion.
    This still leaves a 11s windown to punish Fox, while giving some mobility and flexibility regarding combat readiness.

    Fox has this all-or-nothing playstyle, which lets her thrive in high-dmg-quick-kill type of PvP. With few cooldown changes the class could be more flexible in different PvP environments. For Fox to become universally viable it would need an AOE skill combo.
    Last edited by Tpfelblatt; 04-26-2020 at 09:44 PM.

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