The dwindling STS forums

[RedRyder]

When I first joined, there were eager players on this forums. Players that wanted to break the game down to further understand it and help others for the sake of helping. Conversations in off topic were always fun, flames barely broke out and everyone was just overall nice to eachother. I found myself frequenting the forums constantly, with a tab open for off topic and the general discussions, but now the off topic tab is the only one I ever bother to refresh.

I think the downfall started with the GoA, AoA and the forum reputation feature. I think nothing negative of the actual point of programs/features, but it killed being nice and helpful on the forums/game just because. Now it's just for self gain. I admit that I too became a bit greedy when the rep system came about, only as for as asking for thanks if you liked my post in my signature. It was fun and something new to work for, but I quickly caught myself and stopped worrying about it. I can't stress it enough; forum reputation isn't important. All I am seeing now are people yearning for notoriety, so they jump on questions just for the chance of receiving thanks. They make pointless guides that are just common sense just to receive thanks. They create numerous threads, make countless posts and frequent every section of the forums regardless of how passionate they are for the section (I myself am never on the SL side, unless I have a question) for a rep opportunity. I've even gotten private messages asking for thanks just for the thanks or asking how to get a lot, which infuriates me. Want to know my method? I post whatever the hell is on my mind pertaining the the thread or post I'm referencing to and sometimes I receive thanks, sometimes I don't. Big whoop. I don't try for it, just happens.

The AoA. I love this program. It brings me back to the days I missed back in the younger days of pl. People helping people is always a beautiful thing, especially in a game you enjoy playing. I wouldn't be as good a pve mage as I am if not for the kindness of others in game. Sure there are hands on and fun tutorials included in the game, but friends will always help more. That is essentially what the AoA do. The first friend a newbie could make that just so happens to be very knowledgable of the game and willing to share their wisdom. There's no need to impress, just show interest in learning. I'm a part of this group too, but my inactivity in the game in general keeps me from participating. I've helped a load of players throughout my play history, before the AoA was even a thought in anyone's mind, as well as the majority of my early friends. Now that there's a label to the act, along with perks, everyone wanted to be an AoA upon the programs announcement. I was upset at the first roster, but the genuine ones reassured me that the program wouldn't be a lost cause. I hope that it stays as balanced with those players as it is now in the future.

Now onto the GoA. The highest honor any player could receive in the game. A reward for being an outstanding player in the community, hense the gift of the vanity Community Shield. The first batch of I think it was 12, we're the best of the best. The following that we're chosen have also proven their worth. There was the misconception that obtaining the shield had its duties that came along with it. This was false. It was a gift, not a police badge. It didn't mean that you were entitled to remain active, it was just a thank you and a kind gesture from the STS team for helping make the game enjoyable for all. Owning such an exclusive, not to mention cool looking, piece of equipment brought along fame. To this day I can't stand idly in a towne without getting asked about the shield, if I have it equipped. It also brought along people trying to help out, getting noticed, JUST for the title and the shield. They just completely missed the idea of it all, and this soiled the program for quite a while.

Nowadays, it's all about the forum rep. In general, it's just about the aspect of fame. I'm not pointing any fingers, but if the shoe fits, wear it. What are they to do when they obtain the fame? Fame dies away; it won't always do you good. It's pointless to put time and effort for it. I'm asking to please join in the fight to bring the forums back to what they once were. Just to clarify, the forum members/players ruined it, not the devs/mods. Thank you for the rewards and making the games more fun and attempting to keep the community happy.

My final words: be nice and helpful just to be nice and helpful. Don't be hypocritical saying thanks don't matter yet visibly showing otherwise and don't ask for it. Stop aiming for fame, it doesn't last and isn't worth the trouble. Stop posting over a hundred times an hour (doubt it's possible anyway lol) just to get yourself out there; it does nothing but annoy us all. If you make a thread or post, don't beat the subject half to death by going extremely in depth. It's extremely obvious you just want +rep. If you leave something to be explored, it'll raise more interest in the subject by making us want to do our own research. Cite your sources before releasing info (I'm looking at you DL forum lurkers and frequenters) as it only pisses everyone off when you were wrong, which is the case 85% of the time.


Let's bring back the forums to its golden age

[Hankomachos]

Great thread red.

[RedRyder]

I'm going in on this fight.. 300 style. This.. Is.. ARTERRA!

[Elyseon]

When I first joined, there were eager players on this forums. Players that wanted to break the game down to further understand it and help others for the sake of helping. Conversations in off topic were always fun, flames barely broke out and everyone was just overall nice to eachother. I found myself frequenting the forums constantly, with a tab open for off topic and the general discussions, but now the off topic tab is the only one I ever bother to refresh.

I think the downfall started with the GoA, AoA and the forum reputation feature. I think nothing negative of the actual point of programs/features, but it killed being nice and helpful on the forums/game just because. They make pointless guides that are just common sense just to receive thanks. I've even gotten private messages asking for thanks just for the thanks or asking how to get a lot, which infuriates me.

Now onto the GoA. The first batch of I think it was 12, we're the best of the best. It brought along people trying to help out, getting noticed, JUST for the title and the shield.

Nowadays, it's all about the forum rep. In general, it's just about the aspect of fame. I'm not pointing any fingers, but if the shoe fits, wear it. Stop aiming for fame, it doesn't last and isn't worth the trouble. It's extremely obvious you just want +rep.

Let's bring back the forums to its golden age

I agree -.-
Although i think ive been registered to forums for over a year, I never was super active until 2011 october or so. I look back and see all these old forum works of awesomeness that i missed due to my late involvement. So as soon as I started last fall the rep feature already existed, I thought it was dumb so I ignored it, increasingly i have been mainly using forum app which is nice cuz u dont see rep.

I got the honor of being chosen for the AoA in the first batch despite my lack of involvement in forums at the time, but saw it become the popularity contest, i still enjoy helping ppl although i have not used my lvl10 primarily as I realized it was more answering questions then in dungeon help.

And the guide is one thing that bothers me most. I look back from before I was involved and see these epic guides with detailed explanation of in-game mechanics. Since the beggining of this year i cant even count all the guides that have sprung up, either such basic information its absolutely worthless(and occassionally wrong too -.-) or its not their information.'Oh im making a guide on this! Tell me what should go in it!' Let someone else make it. Ultimately we all know that the sole purpose of this is rep although it occassionally gives a good laugh.

[Swampy]

Very well said. I hope this gets a lot of views.

[Ardon]

A couple of names game to mind that do this lolz

But yeah, people who want titles and rep just have ruined it for me.

I say take away thanks, and rep bars away. Replace them with something else to get people interested in the forums. Mini games, contests, tournaments. Have something to do all the time. Have actual links to the forums in game. Links that stand out. Unlike the ones now that you have to find.

Sent from my CM9 powered Droid X

[Elyseon]

I'm going in on this fight.. 300 style. This.. Is.. ARTERRA!

Alterra?

[Lowlyspy]

I'm going in on this fight.. 300 style. This.. Is.. ARTERRA!

Alterra?

No we're clearly trying to get Arterra back from China so he can play more.

Amen Red.

[Carth]

The forum rep is like getting a few Facebook likes on a status update. It's worthless and has no meaning.

This was the first forum I've ever joined so I was scared to start posting. When I finally did, the members here welcomed me into their conversations. It felt nice. The threads and discussions were fun, informative, and/or just silly (in a good way). It was the internet hang out for me everyday after school. Now I get on here just because the WoM forums are inactive at the moment.

Well written thread, Red. I might have not been here since the beginning, but I'm able to say that the threads in my beginning era were awesome.

[octavos]

I agree and disagree....to a point.

yea, threads are taken seriously because many of the hardcore players (the older paying crowd) type there ideas, hopes and great suggestions. Many posts are more then insightful they can help keep the player enjoying the game or drop off the map all together. A new trend that I see is when people get frustrated with fellow players (AKA scammers, beggars ect...), items or mechanics it seems that the threads are a perfect spot to post. Many are justified and many have proof, still, these post are made by children many 14 or 15. In STS PL advertisements they are geared to students from mid-school/high-school so there posts are a bit illegible (this does not exclude some of the older folks also lol). so as the many of the older hardcore players leave to bigger, better, things. We are left with those posts that are hard to read and immature.

So to the people who create awesome guides and posts hats off to you. please create more informative posts and help build this great community to what it once was.
im still a youngin to these games....so yea rock on.

\/\/ agree with drew. so instead of adding another post. ill "EDIT' it lol

[drewcapu]

Respectfully disagree.

I think much of the general knowledge base, especially for PL, has already been documented (mostly by the likes of Yanis/Physiologic, and additional class guides by Pharcyde, Elly, etc). For those who really wanted to gain that knowledge, most such useful threads are stickied for easy perusal.

It's very telling, however, that each of the players I mentioned basically do not play STS games any longer.

With that said, I'm not saying that there aren't anymore helpful forumers remaining. Far from it. There've been useful guides. Probably my most favorite one in recent memory is Calculate-the-Distance-!!. It scores points for being simple, accurate, brief, and informative.

Bottom line is, the game hasn't really changed much since "those days", so there isn't as much "useful" stuff that hasn't already been said.

To be frank (no, I'm not Frank!), I just hardly ever see a topic I feel like reading after seeing the topic title and mousing over the preview. Even fewer that I feel like replying to. Rep has no bearing on whether I read or reply to something. In general, if I'm reading a thread, I'll read everybody's post. If I start to notice a certain person's posts start to waste my time, I very easily skip passed his/her posts in the future.

[morfic]

I guess I missed the "golden age" of the forums, as I started playing STS games and coming to the forums when SL was released. But I can tell you this, I've always hated the environment these forums produce. Like you said, this entire forum seems like a suck up contest. It's constantly flooded with people...tons of people... trying to gain brownie points with the devs and certain members of the community. They are desperate for some type of recognition, whether that be GoA, SG, AoA and AoB now. The worst part about this, is that it is blatantly apparent. When someone is being nice or helpful, for the sake of being nice and helpful only... you can tell. You can also tell when someone is being fake as hell, and forcing themselves to do it, to try and benefit in some way or raise their status.

From day one on this forum, I was disturbed. It seemed like a constant barrage of players spouting ToS regulations at people, saying "blah blah, don't do this!", and other forms of forum policing, which is my number one most hated thing on the interwebs. I cannot stand other -players- attempting to control my actions and enforce ToS on me... talking down to me etc, and I cannot stand to even see it being done to other people. A gentle reminder every now and then on a thread someone made about them being banned is understandable. But 10 people in a row belittling them for doing so, and all reiterating the same exact thing is pointless. The incessant spamming of useless guides is just icing on the cake.

My persona on these forums is entirely different than any other forums I have every been a part of. While I have always been a slightly pessimistic and argumentative person (I love debating issues into the ground, and jumping in to argue a point that was unanimously agreed upon beforehand, regardless of how I really feel about it), these forums... no, these people on the forums, frustrate me to no end. I think it is pretty apparent that I have waged a silent (and usually humorous) war on certain ideologies and actions on the forums. No, not on any person in particular, but anyone participating in the actions that I despise. It is actually my greatest joy around here, to give people participating in these actions a hard time.

I sincerely think that the SG/GoA/AoA/AoB programs need to be restructured. Do NOT base any decisions on any actions from the forums. When considering people for these positions, totally forget anything you remembered that someone did on the forums. Do not allow that to be any part of the decision process. Go under cover in game, observe people, ask questions a bit, and choose candidates that genuinely help in game WITHOUT trying to get acknowledgement of their helpfulness on the forums. The people that genuinely care and help just to help, are the ones that do not spam threads trying to show how awesome they are to the devs. I really wouldn't be surprised if one of these key people didn't make a thread, "Screenshot of me helping a new player", and including a screenshot and explaining how they helped. Eliminate this entire place from the selection process.

The current state of the forums brown-nosers and suckups striving to get one of these positions, is ruining the forum. While on the outside, the intentions seem positive. "Oh sweet, our forums are flooded with players trying to help and making guides and help enforcing ToS!" etc, it is actually NOT helping. In turn, it is actually poisoning this forums and making it a sickeningly repulsive place.

TLDR version: Red...you have my sword. My axe too.

[Snakespeare]

From my point of view, the most unfortunate thing is how nobody has stepped into Yanis' shoes. Myself included. Just look for info on Mt. Fang pinks. People make guides for "thanks" now that are just lists of places to grind. But Yanis made his complete pinks lists never expecting reputation points, and they are the most clicked threads on the board. So I agree that a rewards system merely establishes minor expectations, and people only live up to the expectations.

[csb]

I haven't noticed the reputation system at all. I guess I don't participate in that part of the forums, and I don't pay any attention to rep bars or thanks counts. So, if there is any drama about it, then i don't get that.

I think the main reason you don't seen any new epic posts is because everything that can be said has already been said. Also, the game keeps changing, so when someone carefully lists all mage equipment with stats (for example), the equipment get "readjusted", and all that information needs to get updated. Most people don't want to keep maintaining the information as it changes.

When the sewers were the highest level maps, i was compiling information about all the yellow/green/purple/pink drops. I was going to do a writeup on "cost effective high end equipment" because the possible combinations were interesting. But, when nuri's came out, all the green drops were so much better than sewer yellow/green and even sometime better than sewer pinks. So, any discussion about sewer gear became useless.

So, I would be careful about what to spend time documenting, since it can be obsolete quickly. For example, discussions about farming all became obsolete with one update that change scale drop levels.

I am working on something that will be a beginners guide, and I will try to make it so that it does not become dated.

A lot of the early documents were written by hard core players that like to try new games and really get into them. They have probably moved on the the next new game, whatever that is.

You talk about rewards and levels of honor, but for some people (like myself) that is insignificant, so there is no drama here.

[StompArtist]

TLDR version: Red...you have my sword. My axe too.

Advocating violence is against the TOS!

[wvhills]

From my point of view, the most unfortunate thing is how nobody has stepped into Yanis' shoes. Myself included. Just look for info on Mt. Fang pinks. People make guides for "thanks" now that are just lists of places to grind. But Yanis made his complete pinks lists never expecting reputation points, and they are the most clicked threads on the board. So I agree that a rewards system merely establishes minor expectations, and people only live up to the expectations.

Drew took over for Yanis and made a guide to the mt fang pinks. I agree with Red though. Most of the guides posted nowadays are common sense or stupid. But Idk if it's people looking for rep or just kids trying to be helpful so I cut them some slack. I think the downfall came with elixirs though. No one needs to know the finer points of the game anymore when they just pop a thrasher and go. Drew is also right, all the good guides have been written. Nothing has really changed as far as what a good tank, bird, bowbear, mage, etc. should do.

Edit: BTW, please thank me if you found this comment helpful. :O
Lol. Just being smart alecky.

[Elyseon]

I didnt say good was totally non existant on the forum and i dont think thats what red meant either. IDK maybe the 'older days' just look epic to me cuz i missed them, but IMO the forums today have been overshadowed by excessive threads and guides with little value especially ppl bring their personal in game drama. I understand middleschoolers have joined the forums more now, i guess they find the forum as a place just to tell the world everything, and as always there will be people how want glory and fame, but the point of the thread is for people to realize the forum is just a place to relax mainly, and help each other.
Sorry to use an analogy that might take the thread off topic, but i guess its somewhat like the idea of utopia, a great concept but impossible to reach, I would like to see the forumers rise to new levels

[csb]

I think the downfall came with elixirs though.

Good point. Discussion of equipment, stats, and techniques used to be *necessary*. But, now with elixirs, such discussions are only *interesting*. In fact, I can level from 1 to 66 with just green and purple gear plus elixir and no skill. That would be easier than having all the best pinks and a lot of skill.

The old discussions about 1h + shield vs 2h, or pure int vs int/str all become irrelevant when using elixirs. This is even true if just one or two group members have Thrasher. That is enough advantage so that everyone else in the group can be wearing green gear and have no skills. The only possible failure would be having a mage that never heals (or doesn't know about the heal skill).

So, the only PVE guide that is needed is the "beginners guide on how to buy plat and elixirs".

[Jugernugett]

First the clam
Then the Bronx bomb
Now arterra?!?!

[RedRyder]

I'll post my replies after work thank for all of your inputs!