Ripper's definition of F2P - how does it apply to Dark Legends?

[Conradin]

I like runescapes model. They give you an incredible amount of free content (more than moats games have content) and also have a memos payment world (even bigger) now this isn't that uncommon in games, but in RS the members dont get to use their gear/skills in the F2P world, which means everyone has an equal playing field

[Cjon]

Whether plat bought are .1% more potent, or 10% more potent than dropped weapons is not the point. The point is the best are bought, and depending on your build, the gems that drop from the random packs, can be considered the best as well.

The point isnt how good they are, just that they are the best. That is it.

Making dropped gear absolutely equivalent to that which is bought would get rid of the need for these discussions and the drama it inevitably causes.

That is the point.


and Cjon: I love you and shall be friending you in game. Look out for Testament! Ima snuggles you.

Exactly. Buying gear equivalent to the best has absolutely no problems at all. Convenience is a great way to encourage impatient (ie. most people) people to support the game without giving them a clear benefit. Some people will argue that they didn't have to 'work' for there gear, but they're also giving up real world money.

Also. Should I be scared???? :P

[Blaquehaaart]

Whether plat bought are .1% more potent, or 10% more potent than dropped weapons is not the point. The point is the best are bought, and depending on your build, the gems that drop from the random packs, can be considered the best as well.

The point isnt how good they are, just that they are the best. That is it.

Making dropped gear absolutely equivalent to that which is bought would get rid of the need for these discussions and the drama it inevitably causes.

That is the point.


and Cjon: I love you and shall be friending you in game. Look out for Testament! Ima snuggles you.

Well, plat gear is considerably better...

[Cjon]

I like runescapes model. They give you an incredible amount of free content (more than moats games have content) and also have a memos payment world (even bigger) now this isn't that uncommon in games, but in RS the members dont get to use their gear/skills in the F2P world, which means everyone has an equal playing field

Well the benefit of microtransactions is that it allows the free player base to also experience the full game.

[Ripper McGee]

Whoever says this game is not pay-to-win has never played with plat gear, is lying through their teeth, and/or doesn't know what they are talking about. It makes a big difference.

Seriously, try to pvp and pve with, then without plat gear. The difference is night and day. When I upgraded, I can solo instances now without blow tons of pot and do much better in pvp.

Put a plat gear team against a non-plat gear team and they will get smoked in combat...it will be an absolute slaughter. I've 2v4'd non-geared teams consistently, with other geared and skilled players.

This game is definitely play-to-win once you hit 20.

That's just being deliberately rude. I PvP a lot, I have plat gear and it hasn't made any significant difference for me at all. I'm not lying and I do know what I'm talking about because it affects me directly. Just because your experience might be different from somebody else's doesn't make their experience false. The only statement I can't argue with is the post-20 game, because I haven't hit 20 yet. That being said, one of my friends sent me a tell today and was amazed at how different the game was at 20 and how much more powerful he was in PvP. I don't think he has any plat gear, honestly, but I'll have to ask him. But is his new found power the result of gear or a result of the level change? I submit it's a result of the level change...

As for the 20s I've been going up against the last week, it's not their gear that makes a difference, but what powers they choose to use against me, their skill and their builds. Even then, 1-v-1, I still end up losing far more often than not.

[Xaphan Fox]

Level gives more skills which are in turn affected by weapon damage. lvl 20s float around with burst leap vermin combos that are affected by increased damage attribute and the gems that support it.

Everything is connected. Best is bought. I like cupcakes. Everypony knows this...

[Blaquehaaart]

That's just being deliberately rude. I PvP a lot, I have plat gear and it hasn't made any significant difference for me at all. I'm not lying and I do know what I'm talking about because it affects me directly. Just because your experience might be different from somebody else's doesn't make their experience false. The only statement I can't argue with is the post-20 game, because I haven't hit 20 yet. That being said, one of my friends sent me a tell today and was amazed at how different the game was at 20 and how much more powerful he was in PvP. I don't think he has any plat gear, honestly, but I'll have to ask him. But is his new found power the result of gear or a result of the level change? I submit it's a result of the level change...

As for the 20s I've been going up against the last week, it's not their gear that makes a difference, but what powers they choose to use against me, their skill and their builds. Even then, 1-v-1, I still end up losing far more often than not.

At 20, If you don't have plat gear, you'll get one shooted by the vs/fb/stomp combo. However, that combo is only really effective when you out gear and out lvl people. I die far less from it now that I have plat gear.

You won't be competitive in pvp at 20 without plat gear. I'm not saying you don't have the skill, but most people without plat gear are getting rolled. I did really good pre 20 as well.

Frankly, there are more skilled players at 20 rocking full maxed out sets of plat than there is not.

[Ripper McGee]

At 20, If you don't have plat gear, you'll get one shooted by the vs/fb/stomp combo. However, that combo is only really effective when you out gear and out lvl people. I die far less from it now that I have plat gear.

You won't be competitive in pvp at 20 without plat gear. I'm not saying you don't have the skill, but most people without plat gear are getting rolled. I did really good pre 20 as well.

Frankly, there are more skilled players at 20 rocking full maxed out sets of plat than there is not.

interesting. I'm looking forward to checking out the 20+ game.

Back to the original topic, it seems like the primary point of contention is that most respondents feel the game is pay-to-win, due to pl at gear b being the best, no?

Irrespective of Dark Legends, what do you think of the definition overall?

[Otukura]

I would agree if that could be shown unequivocally. In fact, I'd love to see that either proven or disproven in Dark Legends. Anecdotal evidence points both ways. Some players believe it makes a difference today, I don't believe it does. I lose too often for it to make any measurable difference! I think some player see particle effects on a weapon and assume that's why you won, not that it's because of a disparity between overall builds, player skill, character level (which does make a large difference) and powers/combos played.

I can use chrome to play 2 screens. If I make a macro, so that each person on either screen attacks each other at the same time, does the same combos, and only one has plat gear, will you believe it? It favors the plat user, but only slightly so.

You won't be competitive in pvp at 20 without plat gear. I'm not saying you don't have the skill, but most people without plat gear are getting rolled. I did really good pre 20 as well.

Completely disagree, there is a minor advantage, but not nearly enough for me to take down most plat users.

[Blaquehaaart]

interesting. I'm looking forward to checking out the 20+ game.

Back to the original topic, it seems like the primary point of contention is that most respondents feel the game is pay-to-win, due to pl at gear b being the best, no?

Irrespective of Dark Legends, what do you think of the definition overall?

Frankly, I don't think someone can be competitive in pvp without plat gear at this point. You might be able to 1v1 someone that has full plat gear and you without it (improbable though, unless they are bad, or mess up bad), but after that fight is over the next guy will one shot you.

Buy all means try it. You might prove me wrong. Although, I hit a wall at 20, and now I do significantly better after buying plat gear. It's kinda lame, but I don't think it's worth it to grind out in-game pinks. They aren't nearly as good plat gear, and harder to get.

The truth of the matter, is that I'm not going to continue playing this game if this plat cycle continues. I'd rather just buy D3, because it'd be waaaaaay better and waaaaaay cheaper to play.

[Blaquehaaart]

Completely disagree, there is a minor advantage, but not nearly enough for me to take down most plat users.

Are you playing with plat gear?

[Otukura]

Frankly, I don't think someone can be competitive in pvp without plat gear at this point. You might be able to 1v1 someone that has full plat gear and you without it (improbable though, unless they are bad, or mess up bad), but after that fight is over the next guy will one shot you.

Buy all means try it. You might prove me wrong. Although, I hit a wall at 20, and now I do significantly better after buying plat gear. It's kinda lame, but I don't think it's worth it to grind out in-game pinks. They aren't nearly as good plat gear, and harder to get.

I can hold a 2.7-2.8k/d in ffa ctf, against all 20s. I know k/d doesn't mean much, but there's nothing I can really base off of. I will say I am using macros... just to make things a little easier.

The truth of the matter, is that I'm not going to continue playing this game if this plat cycle continues. I'd rather just buy D3, because it'd be waaaaaay better and waaaaaay cheaper to play.

With you on that, did the open beta this weekend, and will probably just quit DL for it later.

[Wererhino]

tl;dr

[Otukura]

tl;dr

Then why post? It's a interesting discussions, go back to your bridge.

[GELLIO77]

if you ask me for every amazing plat weapon, gem etc. that there is there needs to be a rare pink that is drop-able to counter it.

[morfic]

if you ask me for every amazing plat weapon, gem etc. that there is there needs to be a rare pink that is drop-able to counter it.

At LEAST.

In my opinion, they can have equally as good plat weapons, as dropped weapons.. But leave the visual effects to the dropped weapons.

IE: Plat weapons can be just as good as pinks dropped in missions (not better), but they will not have the flaming, or pestilence effect. You HAVE to give the players a reason to farm missions. If the weapons are better, AND they look 100x better... no one will PvE (or at least not much).

This would give casual players the option to buy weapons just as good, and perform just as well as hardcore players, BUT not give them the visual appeal. There HAS to be a drive for people to farm PvE.

[Xaphan Fox]

Please please take note of what Morfic just said sts. Please please. Any animosity towards pwnies or whatever aside: that is worth discussing with your crew.

[Ripper McGee]

At LEAST.

In my opinion, they can have equally as good plat weapons, as dropped weapons.. But leave the visual effects to the dropped weapons.

IE: Plat weapons can be just as good as pinks dropped in missions (not better), but they will not have the flaming, or pestilence effect. You HAVE to give the players a reason to farm missions. If the weapons are better, AND they look 100x better... no one will PvE (or at least not much).

This would give casual players the option to buy weapons just as good, and perform just as well as hardcore players, BUT not give them the visual appeal. There HAS to be a drive for people to farm PvE.

This is really a tangential discussion, but I'm of the opposite opinion. I would absolutely love for there to be equivalent or better weapons in-game than there are from the plat store, but people pay for things like the particle effects. As such, I'd keep the the in-game weapons plain and the plat weapons "shiny".

[roufus]

Even if you made weapons that are equal to the plat weapons there is still the limited farming aspect of it. due to this new found energy crisis and game mechanics the endless hours of farming is no longer. I bought the plat starter set and I'm almost to lvl 20 and refuse to spend anymore plat. I just log on burn my energy and leave what fun

[Blaquehaaart]

This is really a tangential discussion, but I'm of the opposite opinion. I would absolutely love for there to be equivalent or better weapons in-game than there are from the plat store, but people pay for things like the particle effects. As such, I'd keep the the in-game weapons plain and the plat weapons "shiny".

I agree ripper. Plat items should be more vanity based and give novelty effect. Like it has a chance of turning enemy into a chicken...just the appearance though it not actually change any function of your enemy. Or you can have the weapons look awesome with an endless flow of blood dripping from it, or move like a snake. However, stat wise, they should be on par with average gear at that level.

Bought weapons should never by the most powerful in the game, they should not even come close to the most powerful either. It should be only achieved through in game missions and/or achievements and their stats should reflect the difficultly to acquire the item. That would encourage people to play the game. Buying the best items discourage a lot of people to play. They simply buy the best items, and have no motivation to play other aspects. Frankly, I only run the playable missions to open up the next set of missions. I don't care at all about the drops because the plat gear I have is better than any drops, and I don't really need gold anymore because I was mostly saving to buy in-game pinks.

That is the huge flaw in dark legends system, and compounded by gamble it takes to acquire plat gear, it's a horrendously expensive system. At this point I'm playing out my gear, once it's obsolete I'm done with the game. For the amount of money it would take to continuously have good gear I could spent on much better things, like a vacation, or some really good nights out. I play games because they are cheap mindless entertainment for when I don't feel like going out. I understand that STS is running a business...but come on, this game is a complete rip off and it isn't even that good. D3 is probably cheaper than the money I already spent in this game, and it's gonna blow this game away in every aspect except mobile.