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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming changes, the future of the game economy, and the removal luck

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    Member frostine's Avatar
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    I've seen a gold nerf like this in another game I've played. The end result was the 'veteran' players who had an opportunity to stockpile gold and good drops held onto their earnings, keeping a tight hold on the auction market. Meanwhile new players that joined the game struggled to earn gold and needed to grind a lot to meet the demands that people were asking regarding items for auction should they decide to give up farming for them. Of course an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay, but from my experience people tend to drive a hard bargain and others will eventually cave and grind for gold (or buy), thus making the already rich people richer. I'm assuming vanities will enter the auction house at some point. Those seems to be where the money is. I think it is doubtful current pinks will really ever increase in value due to the fact that so many people have them. I've never used a luck elix and I have a bunch of weapons even still. We won't truly feel the full impact of this change until the lvl cap is increased and new items and maps are introduced. I'm going to guess that by Halloween it will be quite the grindfest. By then we will probably have new content and I assume Halloween would be a big event given the genre of this game. Generally from what I've seen in games gold nerfs are never well received even by those who have stockpiled. What people tend to feel more comfortable with is the introduction of gold sinks. Perhaps more chance weapon bundles that can be purchased with gold...that sort of thing. I know the idea is for the devs to make a profit, but with the introduction of gold sinks rather than nerfs people may still feel compelled to use plat to buy gold...it still draws a compulsive behavior that you're probably looking for out of your players thus real money spent on the game. Just some thoughts...

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    If 3d missions are only going to reward 10g for instance... might as well not bother with it.

    To be honest, 90% of my gold come from mobs/liquidation/chests/breakables. I think a very small portion comes from allies or mission completion. So I'm not sure how much changing those will affect anything.

    As for reducing exp from allies, this is one point I don't like. One of the great aspects of DL was the fact that you could level adequately fast without spending huge amounts of time in game. I could log on for 5 mintues, collect some ally rewards, set new jobs, etc. By reducing the reward from the allies, you would be trivializing that aspect of the game. I know the examples you gave were just made up, but if they are more than a 50% decrease, I think its way too much.

    IMO, reducing the gold is a good idea. Reducing the xp earned from Allies is not. You mentioned before that DL was meant for more casual players with a smaller number of hardcore fans. But I think doing this will widen the gap between the two classes of players.

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  4.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #23
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    "Gold Sinks" is also something we'll be doing in the future, the important thing is to make it feel meaningful to everyone that plays, and not just pointless. The assumption that the effects won't be apparent until the new campaign is out is correct, anything currently widely available is going to be still widely available.

    I'm still toying with ideas, but chances of a XP gouge on allies looks like it may not happen. I'm rethinking certain aspects so please continue with the discussion.

  5. #24
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    I agree with everyone! The allies barely contribute to the gold gain the mobs and breakables drop a considerable amount per run. Especially since the energy system was moved from those maps.
    I have a few gold sink ideas (click here the review the the ideas people!). Hopefully you and your team of devs like them and consider them Carapace. At least a couple of ideas or something might help. Hell, hopefully more players will check it out and post!

    Edit: Also, in my opinion nerfing the exp gain from minions will probably -officially- take away the 'casual' part of DL because we will be forced to grind even more just for exp. Its bad enough we have to grind ridiculous hours for vanities that are going to be removed from drop tables after the event is over... Now we gotta grind even more for exp? That would be horrible. Honestly, I like to level up my main as fast as possible so I can get more time to PvP, PvE, do my achievements, etc. I don't like spending all my time grinding like I've been doing since the event started just to look for vanities on a daily basis. Its really cut down on my PvP and starting to irk me so please don't make this game become a pain-in-the-arse to level like PL & SL. For once keep this game unique in the game play exp gaining aspects!

    Last edited by Lady_Pebbles; 08-03-2012 at 02:27 PM.

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    I am glad you're listening Carapace. As many have mentioned, altering Exp that is gained from allies to encourage more 3D gameplay will hurt players that enjoyed being able to reach the Cap with minimal play. I wouldn't mind not receiving so much gold from Allies. If I want gold I can hunt valuable Legendaries to sell in the Auction. I believe that if 3D missions provided more gold with a decent amount of xp and Allies provided less gold, or no gold at all and the removal of Ally loot, it may create a balance of having people running 3D to earn money while earning some Xp and Allies will be required to get a boost of Xp.

    Hardcore grinders will still have an edge as they will play for hours and be able to set Allies as soon as they have the energy. This will allow for casual players (5 minute login) to get to the cap at their pace and if they need gold to get Gear then that's when they'll be motivated to run 3D missions. They will run them because Allies would not drop Gear and 3D missions would be the place to get Gear. This may be controversial and I understand how hard it is to make a decision.

    My only request is that the Exp from Allies not be altered unless you are going to increase it.

    Edit: Kept saying Minions when I meant to say Allies
    Last edited by XchilangopwnX; 08-03-2012 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frostine View Post
    I've seen a gold nerf like this in another game I've played. The end result was the 'veteran' players who had an opportunity to stockpile gold and good drops held onto their earnings, keeping a tight hold on the auction market. Meanwhile new players that joined the game struggled to earn gold and needed to grind a lot to meet the demands that people were asking regarding items for auction should they decide to give up farming for them. Of course an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay, but from my experience people tend to drive a hard bargain and others will eventually cave and grind for gold (or buy), thus making the already rich people richer. I'm assuming vanities will enter the auction house at some point. Those seems to be where the money is. I think it is doubtful current pinks will really ever increase in value due to the fact that so many people have them.
    Yea I also know a game like this, it's called Star Legends.
    Really, I wished SL would become more like DL. Vanities in DL are comfy to find (I'm not using luck ele's)
    During SL... Well several months of farming an still no result (SL player know what I mean)
    Anyways, I don't wanna drift away again or something. I just wanna say that I actually prefer SL but since I have nothing to do then farming vanities (really frustrating, long and unsuccessful) but just because of this I'm playing Dark Legends. Same thing. Mac lvl already, only need to farm BUT I get awarded pretty fast! Got like 4 vanities this week! I just hope SL might become like DL someday. Til there I enjoy Dl's adequate drop rates =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuero View Post
    Yea I also know a game like this, it's called Star Legends.
    Really, I wished SL would become more like DL. Vanities in DL are comfy to find (I'm not using luck ele's)
    During SL... Well several months of farming an still no result (SL player know what I mean)
    Anyways, I don't wanna drift away again or something. I just wanna say that I actually prefer SL but since I have nothing to do then farming vanities (really frustrating, long and unsuccessful) but just because of this I'm playing Dark Legends. Same thing. Mac lvl already, only need to farm BUT I get awarded pretty fast! Got like 4 vanities this week! I just hope SL might become like DL someday. Til there I enjoy Dl's adequate drop rates =)
    I disagree with this as vanities in Sl are meant to be REALLY HARD to loot.

    If vanity drop rates were boosted any noob will have one.

    Besides, you can get vanities pretty easily at Red sun pirate ship:incubator.
    Just my opinion though.

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    Last edited by HunterSLAYER; 08-04-2012 at 04:24 AM.
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    Something amusing... Gold is an issue... so exp and gold is gonna be messed around with.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Why were the gold vantiy items decreased then? That was your gold sink right there. Spent millions of gold on stuff that costs like 350k for everything now.
    Make a change, ruins something, then fix something else to fix the fix of the fix.
    *head spins*
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    I agree with what Lady Pebbles and others have mentioned regarding XP. I think that is probably my biggest concern...keeping the game casual for those of us who want to play casual. The XP system as it currently stands maintains a balance of casual play for some while those who want to be less casual can grind for rare items. I like PL but the number one thing that turns me off from wanting to play it right now is the pandemic of 'thrashers' in the game. XP gain is rather slow in PL and people are obviously impatient...its hard to find runs without people thrashing ahead of others through the map or even booting non-thrashers. It kinda ruins the gameplay and group dynamics for those who don't want to drink thrash punch. I'd love to see this game avoid going down that road and keep itself different from PL and SL by not having an xp grind being its primary focus. I'd rather think about end game activities like PvP and treasure hunting than boring myself with xp grinds. It fits my schedule better, its better for mobile, and its more fun. I get really really bored when games become busy work/xp grinds, and I love the fact that this game isn't like the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octavos View Post
    vanities (Bosses) and pinks (to ghosts) should be shifted to 3D maps, and boss drops...this will help your concern. ATM vanities and pinks can fall almost anywhere and people dont finish maps, because bosses dont give any benefit aside from what they can drop on there table.
    Note to ghosts: I have killed many ghosts, about 10-20. And the best I have gotten is a green.. I've never seen a pink drop from ghosts even though I know they're supposed to.
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    Default Upcoming changes, the future of the game economy, and the removal luck

    But as goes for my opinion.
    I agree 99% with the allies, the 1% is that I don't think the XP should be lowered by over half of what it was..
    With the dungeons, 5xp per run (20/25xp per campaign) is very low for the work we have to do. So yes, XP should be raised in dungeons

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    You guys should just use my Gold Sink idea I told Delphina and the rest of the AoCs in game about 50 times haha.
    Delphina will tell you about it Cara, if she hasn't already...

    THAT IS...ASSUMING THIS IDEA ISN'T ALREADY IN EFFECT, HMMMM!?!?!? *TURNS SPOTLIGHT*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worship View Post
    Note to ghosts: I have killed many ghosts, about 10-20. And the best I have gotten is a green.. I've never seen a pink drop from ghosts even though I know they're supposed to.
    only when DL was first released, ghost were a happy sight to see (they dropped pinks XD)...now they are annoying...hopefully i dont come across that way XD


    Quote Originally Posted by Flowman View Post
    You guys should just use my Gold Sink idea I told Delphina and the rest of the AoCs in game about 50 times haha.
    Delphina will tell you about it Cara, if she hasn't already...

    THAT IS...ASSUMING THIS IDEA ISN'T ALREADY IN EFFECT, HMMMM!?!?!? *TURNS SPOTLIGHT*
    whats the idea?
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    Um, gold be stashable in this update? I got a lvl 17 with 70k and one of my mains has 12k id like to have gold stashable lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by XchilangopwnX View Post
    ...

    Hardcore grinders will still have an edge as they will play for hours and be able to set Allies as soon as they have the energy. This will allow for casual players (5 minute login) to get to the cap at their pace and if they need gold to get Gear then that's when they'll be motivated to run 3D missions. They will run them because Allies would not drop Gear and 3D missions would be the place to get Gear. This may be controversial and I understand how hard it is to make a decision.

    ...

    I don't want the game ruled by hardcore grinders - that's what ruined PL and SL for me, I basically never play them now. Currently I do decently in a typical PvP match - typical being one where there isn't a solid, practiced team working together on the other side. No pwnage but I have fun. In 3D missions my guild co-GM and I do considerably better than the average person we run with and we actively try to avoid running with anyone else. If you change the game so that the best gear can only be gotten by hardcore grinding then players like me and my co-GM get stuck with substandard gear, do less well in 3D and I just get pwned in PvP. That doesn't sound like fun, enjoyable or interesting. I only have time to play 3D on occasional weekends in general so going that route means I would lose any reason to play at all.

    Personally I'm happy with the economy being the way it is - have the functional stuff (pinks) be relatively cheap and the attractive stuff (vanities) be rare and expensive - this way I can still play, be relatively tough and have a good time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaphan Fox View Post
    Something amusing... Gold is an issue... so exp and gold is gonna be messed around with.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Why were the gold vantiy items decreased then? That was your gold sink right there. Spent millions of gold on stuff that costs like 350k for everything now.
    Make a change, ruins something, then fix something else to fix the fix of the fix.
    *head spins*
    Ah another spinner. Hi!

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    Quote Originally Posted by frostine View Post
    I agree with what Lady Pebbles and others have mentioned regarding XP. I think that is probably my biggest concern...keeping the game casual for those of us who want to play casual. The XP system as it currently stands maintains a balance of casual play for some while those who want to be less casual can grind for rare items. I like PL but the number one thing that turns me off from wanting to play it right now is the pandemic of 'thrashers' in the game. XP gain is rather slow in PL and people are obviously impatient...its hard to find runs without people thrashing ahead of others through the map or even booting non-thrashers. It kinda ruins the gameplay and group dynamics for those who don't want to drink thrash punch. I'd love to see this game avoid going down that road and keep itself different from PL and SL by not having an xp grind being its primary focus. I'd rather think about end game activities like PvP and treasure hunting than boring myself with xp grinds. It fits my schedule better, its better for mobile, and its more fun. I get really really bored when games become busy work/xp grinds, and I love the fact that this game isn't like the rest.

    I agree with you very much frostine - plat elixirs being necessary to have any chance of reaching level cap if you're not hardcore (and the simple fact that grinding is BORING BORING BORING) are big parts of why I am no longer very much interested in playing PL and SL.

    I do like using the gold elixirs in 3D missions in DL but I could accept having the luck and/or element removed, especially if they become cheaper. My favorite thing about the elixirs is being able to move faster - in fact I'd buy just speed elixirs if I could, it's awesome being able to run circles around the bad guys faster than they can turn and target.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worship View Post
    Note to ghosts: I have killed many ghosts, about 10-20. And the best I have gotten is a green.. I've never seen a pink drop from ghosts even though I know they're supposed to.

    "many ghosts, about 10-20"? Many? Lol, I can only guess how many I've killed but it's got to be in the dozens (and I play 3D fairly rarely.) I've gotten all sorts of drops from ghosts, though I admit I can't recall the last time I got a pink.
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    Quote Originally Posted by razerfingers View Post
    Um, gold be stashable in this update? I got a lvl 17 with 70k and one of my mains has 12k id like to have gold stashable lol

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    Yes, please! I think I heard there was some sort of exploit that caused STS to not allow stashing gold (and blood packs?) but surely there is a better fix than the pain in the behind of not being able to stash them. To work around it for gold I have to use multiple accounts and have character 1 on account 1 give gold to character 2 on account 2 who then gives it to character 3 on account 1 - because character 1 and 3 on account 1 can't just put their gold in their common stash.
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    Carapace,

    I'll be sad to see the luck go but I can live without it. As for the other changes my personal feeling is that after removing the only changes I'd be happy to see would be increased xp for 3D and increased gold for allies. It may seem there is a glut of gold in the game but from where I sit I still can't buy the best gear for even one of my characters - even after combining gold from all of them. I was able to eventually get "good enough" gear for most of them and I'm happy enough so - isn't that a sufficient advantage for the hardcore grinders? I really hope you won't make it another PL where the hardcore have all the money and best gear and essentially everyone else is poor and poorly equipped. I play to have fun, not to replicate the conditions of real life in a game.

    Would it help if I beg? Can I bribe you with some level 25 white drops I got from 24 hour ally missions?
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