Official Stat-Driven Skills Feedback Thread for 1.4

[jonboy]

Can the Pvper,s test a str/dex play v a pure int chantress, I'm interested.

Also still nothing I'm unhappy about, if the Pure Enchantress get a boost to their damage then that is fine, they play the glass cannon, which is standard fare for a AOE Mage, Palys don't have the boost, but we have all this armour and what not so basically we trade increased damage for increased armor/survivability.

[bmc85uk]

True, I'd expect a pure mage to be fragile, but right now I definitely think PvP overall is way to short due to low health pools.

[Thuull]

Pve:
Paly - same as everyone else is saying. No serious negatives.
Warrior - feels quite a bit stronger, maybe too strong. With full horus gear (put isis away to test damage output) soloed all of ao2-5 up to the first boss in record time, only had to use tank skills once, no pots, before someone else joined the game and we took the bosses out...while still in horus. Damage is increased nicely.
Dagger bird - can notice increase in damage, but not all that much. Considering squishiness, I had hoped for more, and it doesn't feel like the damage king a full dex dps'er with highest dps weapon available should be...might want to take a look at that.

Overall impressions: Extremely positive change to the game all around. This seems to have buffed pures without directly nerfing hybrids.

Well done.

[jonboy]

This is the official feedback thread for version 1.4's updated Skills System. For details on this change check out this link. We will be providing two (2) free re-specs after you've all had at least one full day to play with this change. The team will will be returning to this thread for useful feedback, ideas and issues to address for our next update. The plan is to make small, focused alterations to the skills and their formulas so that both Hybrid and Pure styles feel fun and viable.

Thanks in advance for your feedback,

- Cinco

How Cinco? How?, I'm not 100% sure yet, but you seem to have done the impossible in pve and as Thull put it " buffed the pures without nerfing the hybrids", Well Done.

[vulgarstrike]

red scarab archers are OP in pvp. pve seems pretty balanced, but pure mages have a good upper hand.

[smokester]

all this feedback from ppl about pvp and how you think is balanced well i dont see ya in pvp that much or at all lol... i was just telling how it is so pure dex archers should have best dps yes but like i said the blast shot is just ridiculous... if they keep it this way all you gonna see in pvp is bunch of chickens running around and its whoever presses teh buttons faster wins lmao... i would like more comments from the ppl who are actually there in pvp all the time no offense...

all i would like to see is that you at least give a chance for hybrids to go up against pure dex archer or tank hybrids or good solid pure mages cuz right now there is little to none... but then again if your going up against inexperienced players there is a good chance but against pvp veterans no way

also teven and i, no. 1 and 2 on pvp kills for warriors, well it just blows... teven repspecced to tank because of this and i dont play my dex bear that much anymore because my pure dex archer is way better for pvp now

EDIT: also pallys they can still do some serious dmg equipped wit a shock lance lol... not cool and kill pure mages

[jonboy]

Smokster L2R, most positive comments are about pve, with calls to the pvpers for feedback, as we don't pvp enough to provide legit feedback.

Apart from you, I haven't seen any of the pvpers provide feedback.

[kavanah]

Pve:
Paly - same as everyone else is saying. No serious negatives.
Warrior - feels quite a bit stronger, maybe too strong. With full horus gear (put isis away to test damage output) soloed all of ao2-5 up to the first boss in record time, only had to use tank skills once, no pots, before someone else joined the game and we took the bosses out...while still in horus. Damage is increased nicely.
Dagger bird - can notice increase in damage, but not all that much. Considering squishiness, I had hoped for more, and it doesn't feel like the damage king a full dex dps'er with highest dps weapon available should be...might want to take a look at that.

Overall impressions: Extremely positive change to the game all around. This seems to have buffed pures without directly nerfing hybrids.

Well done.

Ok well I just got interested in using Horus now =)

What were you running with equipped? I just did AO2:4 and Plasma Pyramids solo, clearing of course, without using pots. I had on thoth armor, isis shield, isis helm, zuraz shock lance. I'm thinking of going to zuraz shock lance, thoth armor, horus shield, and horus helm. So i'm interested what you were using...

[Thuull]

Don't remember *exactly* (stuck at work) but I'm pretty sure I was running with just a djinn spear (I think I had my osiris on, but might have been horus as well), mynas plate horus, helm horus and shield thoth. My dodge pretty much sucked compared to tank set up, but I split stats between strength and dex for hit rate, crit and the dodge the dex provides. My crit rate was very high. And it was fast...much faster than I hoped for. I basically just spammed the three primary damage single target melee attacks, relied on red and orange damage otherwise. Used other skills minimally, some beckon here and there. No stomp at all. Only really started to take damage once or twice at which point I just hit my tank skills. I might have popped a single health pot at that point, but don't remember doing so. Maybe my str based health regen (small as it was without any isis on) covered it while the tank skills were up...don't really remember.

I was definitely very pleased.

[FluffNStuff]

Held my own as a bowbear. Respeced first though to add some more pvp skills and getting used to it. Definitely no longer the over powered death machine, but I still like the benefits it provides and am going to stay bowbear. Just need some more tweaking and fighting and testing.

[Royce]

To me this feels like a pretty minor change. The biggest change is obviously for archers since they can go full dex, and max their crit, DPS, etc. and now also damage of their skills. Paladin and Dex mage feel pretty much the same. I was very excited to try my 100% Int mage out in PvP, but was disappointed by the result. In the end, I believe that character will still be far more effective sacrificing some skill damage and putting secondary attribute points into Dex for damage, crit, etc. And herein lies the problem, not that it is surprising to me, but Dex is just too overpowered, and Str and Int too underpowered and really only useful for meeting gear requirements. An archer whose skills now depend on Dex is in a great position because there is no reason to spend on Str or Int anyway. However, a mage or warrior, whose skills depend on Int and Str now, still needs Dex to be at all effective. So, unlike an archer, mages and warriors cannot max out their primary attribute and get all the extra benefit of stat-driven skills. This change has been pretty good in general, but what it has done more than anything, is underline the imbalance of attributes at the core of this game. I hate to sound like a broken record but until I see a better suggestion for fixing this serious issue, I will keep pointing people to my thread: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-investments-D

[bmc85uk]

I'm completely with Royce, dex is still overpowered. I don't think dex should be nerfed, but instead, str and int should provide a little hit, and a similar boost to damage as dex currently does for their respective weapons (str powers str weapon damage, int for int weapon damage), dex should then only power dex weapon damage.

I really can't stress enough how much we are fighting an uphill battle unless we get some kind of health/mana system revamp (yes now I'm a broken record).

It's an absolute waste of time balancing/trimming damage to work with the tiny health pools we have at the moment. If mana pool was also increased, skill mana cost could increase with level, therefore putting a choke-hold on using maxed skills at a very low level.

An example of a health/mana update is in the overhaul thread.

[Snakespeare]

I haven't noticed any difference. Well, a few skills were more effective, but in fact, it still takes about the same number of hits to take down the same bad guys in PvE. I was worried it would dramatically change the game, but it has not. It's a subtle change. I won't be complaining anymore. :-)

[Azrael]

Overall Cinco, this seems like a very minor change that was a step in the right direction, but did very little. Unfortunately the little it changes this "revamp" brought to Pocket Legends were negative. I was very excited for this change, and perhaps i expected to much because we had waited over a month for this. I have spoken to Justg and i realize that the idea is to make small changes, but as of now i'm disappointed.

As far as PVE goes, it has always been mind numbingly easy so i noticed no changes. I hope the new elite map pack will be challenging.

As far as PVP goes, the only noticeable thing that has changed is archer damage (and for some reason damage and accuracy seem to be mixed. Perhaps its just that they do more damage so it seems like they are hitting more). It also seems that everyone may be doing slightly more damage but its hard to tell. What i can say for sure though is that players are killed in pvp even fast than before, and the importance of having defense buffs up to be able to survive for even 3 seconds is even higher than before. This is absolutely terrible for pvp. It has made pvp require even less skill than before, and made it less enjoyable.

I realize some players want hybrids, and some players don't, but until there are sweeping changes made to the stat and skill systems, pvp will remain a flawed and morose shell of a system that could be amazing. I have made multiple post saying what needs to be done to fix this stuff, but the thing that amazes me is that there has been seemingly no interest in raising Health Points in characters. It seems very obvious that a major way to improve the games pvp is to have players with high str have large amount of HP. Then simply make pve mobs do more damage. If players are worried about enchantress's having high HP, well then as a result they should do little damage with spells and gain little from healing.

Overall this was such a minor change, that i cant even tell which stat governs which skill, with exception to the examples cinco posted. That pretty much sums it up.

[bmc85uk]

Not that many skills were changed, just damage and heal skills for the most part (maybe more to follow as the balance is worked) but I haven't noticed any others.

I do agree we need more hp to survive in PvP, I don't think it should come from strength, I think it should be influenced by level as with most RPGs. Check the overhaul link in my sig for an example.

You wouldn't want to change much about the enchantress as is, definitely a bit less attribute boost focus on damage spells and a little influence on BoV, increasing the armour and hp it adds (not huge amounts, maybe 10 armour/hp per 100 int).

Manashield is pretty pointless in pvp except as a last resort, and I often find damage cuts through straight to health ignoring mana pool, I don't really understand why, someone suggested that it was when damage exceeded remaining mana, but surely it should still drain mana first, then the remaining damage from HP?

Regardless, I think if mana shield was reworked so that it only absorbed a % of the damage, say 20-60% levels 1-5, and then int slightly increased the armour boost (very little, maybe 5 per 100 int), it would be a far more feasible skill, both in PvP and PvE. Manashield should also 'break' when the mana pool is depleted, to prevent the horrible situation you get where you're basically doomed.

[kavanah]

Just a FYI, Justg told me that they were going to really take in constructive feedback from the community on how to tweak this thing. So remember, stay positive, stay constructive, and KNOW that the dev's are listening to yall on this thread. Just some encouragement I thought I would share with everyone hehe.

[jonboy]

Hey Kav, I think we have all been responsible kids and been constructive, most of the feedback is positive and construcitve.

[Raxie]

i can hardly notice the difference. archers though are definitely much stronger and can now easily beat paladins. however, tanks are still bad at pvp. i have played lots of tanks with 142 str and then the rest into dex and i even played a pure str tank. however, i can still easily beat tanks. hm...

[Neurion]

Why do avians need to be stuck to dex, bears to str, and elves to int? Each class has good mix of skills that could benefit from all stats. It's kind of weird that archers' Restore is buffed by dex, while bears' is improved by str. I don't know, maybe I'm alone on this thought, but maybe stat-driven skills shouldn't be too pro-purebuilds

[Bentmer]

Why do avians need to be stuck to dex, bears to str, and elves to int? Each class has good mix of skills that could benefit from all stats. It's kind of weird that archers' Restore is buffed by dex, while bears' is improved by str. I don't know, maybe I'm alone on this thought, but maybe stat-driven skills shouldn't be too pro-purebuilds

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be no flexibility in how you build your character. I think they're suggesting (and I agree 100%) that each class gain more benefits from their primary stat than from a secondary stat. That is not necessarily the case for 2 out of the 3 classes now. If there was a change to INT and STR so that Bears and Enchantresses gained the same rate of dps that Archers do from DEX, I think that would help the imbalance alot. As far as hybrids and pures go, one way to keep hybrids viable while buffing the pures is to add skill trees to each class. That way a person could spec their skills to their playstyle. A ranged Bear for instance could learn skills in the 'ranged' part of their skill tree that benefit from DEX instead of STR. I know such a change to the system would require a lot of work. I'm just giving a suggestion. ;0