PL Today – In-Depth Analysis and Long Term Outlook

[JaytB]

Twinking PvP situation
The reason why PvP has always exerted a high influence is because of the percentage of high platinum spenders that are PvPers. Let’s consider the following. In any F2P MMO, only about 5-7% of the population is actually paying. The rest are really “F2P” and don’t spend much (if any) money. Among those 5-7%, again, only a percentage are high spenders. The reason why PvP has such a high influence is because from a company’s perspective, the only thing that matters is those 5-7%. The 93-95% are just server bandwidth – their only use is their potential to bring in new players and to make the game more enjoyable for those 5-7%. But among those 5-7% and within those the high spenders, a very high percentage of players are very regular PvPers and that is why PvP has the influence that it does.

You might know twinking, but you obviously have no clue on the spending habbits of PvE. Maybe it's because you're more of a pvp person instead of a pve one.

The way I see it, is that twinks only spend platinum to lvl their chars and then enjoy the f2p experience in form of twinking.

Real hardcore farmers use elix almost on a 24/7 basis, spend plat on payed dungeons and elixers like classy looter and shamrock. I'm basing myself on the 100's of active players within my and other (non-pvp) guilds, which seems like a much higher sample rate than the few PvP guilds with limited members.

The percentages you name here, are nothing more than simple guesswork that you made up based on your own experiences (ie twinking) and in no way represent the real plat spending habbits of people that don't PvP. I mean, how could it be anything else than numbers you just made up? Do you have access to STS's database of plat spending? I think not.

I understand you want to get your point accross, but I utterly disagree with your attempt to skew the numbers in your favor.

For PvE, those new weapons are just wonderful to play with, and so far STS doesn't seem to want to nerf them any further than increasing their base stat requirement. Maybe they did this because it's actually the PvE players that bring in way more money than the lot of PvP players in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to flame here, but it's just too obvious that only the PvP'ers are complaining here. From a PvE perspective, I love the new weapons and sincerely hope STS doesn't change a thing about them.

[Yich]

You might know twinking, but you obviously have no clue on the spending habbits of PvE. Maybe it's because you're more of a pvp person instead of a pve one.

The way I see it, is that twinks only spend platinum to lvl their chars and then enjoy the f2p experience in form of twinking.

Real hardcore farmers use elix almost on a 24/7 basis, spend plat on payed dungeons and elixers like classy looter and shamrock. I'm basing myself on the 100's of active players within my and other (non-pvp) guilds, which seems like a much higher sample rate than the few PvP guilds with limited members.

The percentages you name here, are nothing more than simple guesswork that you made up based on your own experiences (ie twinking) and in no way represent the real plat spending habbits of people that don't PvP. I mean, how could it be anything else than numbers you just made up? Do you have access to STS's database of plat spending? I think not.

I understand you want to get your point accross, but I utterly disagree with your attempt to skew the numbers in your favor.

For PvE, those new weapons are just wonderful to play with, and so far STS doesn't seem to want to nerf them any further than increasing their base stat requirement. Maybe they did this because it's actually the PvE players that bring in way more money than the lot of PvP players in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to flame here, but it's just too obvious that only the PvP'ers are complaining here. From a PvE perspective, I love the new weapons and sincerely hope STS doesn't change a thing about them.

Or maybe they are taking their time deciding what the stats should be exactly... Just a possibility, because I havent seen any confirmation that they wont be nerfed but I HAVE seen Samhayne say the bows are pretty OP, just saying.

[JaytB]

Or maybe they are taking their time deciding what the stats should be exactly... Just a possibility, because I havent seen any confirmation that they wont be nerfed but I HAVE seen Samhayne say the bows are pretty OP, just saying.

Same as I haven't seen any confirmation of stats going to be nerfed. I read Sam's post about those weapons being OP, but his remark was posted as a reply on people complaining that the base stats got nerfed, in which he responded that they were still good weapons.

So, it might be as well that STS isn't going to nerf them any further. But yeah, I guess only time will tell

[Yich]

Same as I haven't seen any confirmation of stats going to be nerfed. I read Sam's post about those weapons being OP, but his remark was posted as a reply on people complaining that the base stats got nerfed, in which he responded that they were still good weapons.

So, it might be as well that STS isn't going to nerf them any further. But yeah, I guess only time will tell

I think its important to point out he did say they are still pretty OP. to you, they may not "seem to want to nerf" and that implies they seem to want them to stay the same (or have stats raised, which is unlikely). From what Im used to, STS isnt about making and keeping anything thats OP without nerfing it soon after. But ya, time will tell.

[Cobraguy]

I think its important to point out he did say they are still pretty OP. to you, they may not "seem to want to nerf" and that implies they seem to want them to stay the same (or have stats raised, which is unlikely). From what Im used to, STS isnt about making and keeping anything thats OP without nerfing it soon after. But ya, time will tell.

Another thing about being OP was when players complained about the angel sets. STS made it clear that the stats on them would stay as they were. I would assume that if the forgotten weapons were going to be nerfed it would have either been done or at least brought to our attention that they would be. On the other hand, they didnt let us know before hand that the base stats to equip would be incrased either, so i may be wrong. I personally don't care either way if they do reduce stats or not, as I'm not a hardcore PVPer, so I'm not going to get into that debate. My prediction though is that they will in fact stay as they are.

[Airity]

Yeah yeah good good work.. Honestly though, there is NO way I read that all. >.>

I suggest you do, it's a good read .

[Pimpslide]

You might know twinking, but you obviously have no clue on the spending habbits of PvE. Maybe it's because you're more of a pvp person instead of a pve one.

The way I see it, is that twinks only spend platinum to lvl their chars and then enjoy the f2p experience in form of twinking.

Real hardcore farmers use elix almost on a 24/7 basis, spend plat on payed dungeons and elixers like classy looter and shamrock. I'm basing myself on the 100's of active players within my and other (non-pvp) guilds, which seems like a much higher sample rate than the few PvP guilds with limited members.

The percentages you name here, are nothing more than simple guesswork that you made up based on your own experiences (ie twinking) and in no way represent the real plat spending habbits of people that don't PvP. I mean, how could it be anything else than numbers you just made up? Do you have access to STS's database of plat spending? I think not.

I understand you want to get your point accross, but I utterly disagree with your attempt to skew the numbers in your favor.

For PvE, those new weapons are just wonderful to play with, and so far STS doesn't seem to want to nerf them any further than increasing their base stat requirement. Maybe they did this because it's actually the PvE players that bring in way more money than the lot of PvP players in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to flame here, but it's just too obvious that only the PvP'ers are complaining here. From a PvE perspective, I love the new weapons and sincerely hope STS doesn't change a thing about them.

Yeah, the new weapons ARE positively awesome for PvE, and yes PvE player DO bring in much more income for the STS via Elixirs. That also kind of leads to the "decline of player skill" as Who stated. Not all PvE players with elixirs suck, but some of them do. Elixirs were a great thing too, but I think when you go to Humania Towne, and all the chat you see is "Looking for a Thrasher Run", and "Hosting a Thrasher Run, 3 spots LEFT", it gets a little sad.

And like you said, the new weapons are awesome for PvE, so why not just keep them in PvE? Is it possible for the devs to make it so these bows cannot be used in a PvP game, or the stats are changed while in PvP? I guess it would be similar to how they did the Mothers Day Bouquet thing, but I don't know a thing about coding.

[Whirlzap]

Just read your article and I can pretty much understand what you're going to do next.

[Mothwing]

I read everything until the Twinking. To say that someone "obviously doesn't twink often", is for one, sort of questioning his knowledge about the game. Two, it says that I know more, and my point is more valid than yours. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it doesn't take a twinking genius to understand that this is clearly a problem. I see all these posts making twinking way more complicated than it needs to be. It's simply: "players PVP'ing at a low level". It doesn't mean they have more skill. It doesn't mean they have more experience. TBH, I couldn't care less about all this. Simple weapons are not worth 5 pages of research. It's. A. Video. Game. Can we play it?

[Plaguemaw]

I'll deal with a nerf for these bows if it comes, but what about the plat I spent the first time to respec to wear it, then had to again when stat got increased? If they get nerfed again ill have to respec a third time to fix the toons again. Idk about your guys but I have dozens of toons, it does get expensive fixing my twinks due to the stat changes.

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[Thelastblink]

I'll deal with a nerf for these bows if it comes, but what about the plat I spent the first time to respec to wear it, then had to again when stat got increased? If they get nerfed again ill have to respec a third time to fix the toons again. Idk about your guys but I have dozens of toons, it does get expensive fixing my twinks due to the stat changes.

Sent from my HTCEVODesign4G using Tapatalk 2

Idk if you were around at this time but when sewers were released they gave free skill respecs for a limited time unlimited. So you could respec your skills as much as you want So I think sts should do that for the bow thing This forgotten nonsense is just ridiculous.... Me too, I spent 100 k on new gear but I guess id be happy for their nerf.....

[WhoIsThis]

Keep the chat clean and civil. I don't want to see another flame war or this thread locked. Disagree with a person's argument, not their person.

[Gaunab]

Phew!

Very glad this thread survived. Awesome work bro!
There isn't much to add, except for the question about the scewed range (+/- 2m when chasing/running). I don't even know if this is intentional, and if so, why!?

I hope this thread will prove to have been worth the effort...

[WhoIsThis]

You are correct that things are more complicated than I implied. But you'll find that I agree on more than we initially might think.

You might know twinking, but you obviously have no clue on the spending habbits of PvE. Maybe it's because you're more of a pvp person instead of a pve one.

The way I see it, is that twinks only spend platinum to lvl their chars and then enjoy the f2p experience in form of twinking.

Agreed. That may be one of the reasons why twinking is neglected. But twinkers enjoy it that way. They didn't want radically new content to unbalance things they way it did. Many twinkers have said that they feel that the reason why this is happening is that they are not the huge source of platinum that say, end game elixir burning farmers are, making them expendable to STS.

Real hardcore farmers use elix almost on a 24/7 basis, spend plat on payed dungeons and elixers like classy looter and shamrock. I'm basing myself on the 100's of active players within my and other (non-pvp) guilds, which seems like a much higher sample rate than the few PvP guilds with limited members.

Agreed. That is why there are players that spend so much - $5,000 USD+.

As discussed in my PM, an 80 plat elixir, assuming 1 hour, costs $3.60 an hour. At that rate, it takes 278 hours to get to $1,000, easily doable within 1-2 months for a hardcore player.

But it's not so clear.

For example, a PvPer may spend elixirs every time that they go into the dungeons to PvE, which although less than a hardcore PvEer, is still enough to make a substantial impact.

The percentages you name here, are nothing more than simple guesswork that you made up based on your own experiences (ie twinking) and in no way represent the real plat spending habbits of people that don't PvP. I mean, how could it be anything else than numbers you just made up? Do you have access to STS's database of plat spending? I think not.

Educated guesses based on statistics and personal observations. Yes. But it is not a wild guess - it's much more educated than you imply.

That 5-7% figure though is not made up. I have talked with several developers of F2P MMOs about this. The ones willing to disclose usually tell me within 5-7% of all their customers end up as paying. I think that barring a full release from STS, it's pretty safe to say that among all the people that play PL, perhaps 5-7% are paying customers. Many will simply play for a bit and uninstall. Others will play more, but won't pay. In the end, it's most common for 5-7% to play, at least among PC games. It's possible that for mobile that figure could be higher or lower. Mobile might be different from PC in this regard, for example, people may be used to purchasing apps and this is an extension of that.

If we were able to get an answer from STS as to how many people who ever installed and played PL became paying customers, the most probable outcome is a percentage in the single digits.

But I remain firm that among that 5-7% (or whatever that number is for STS), a disproportionate amount comes from high end PvPers - a high enough percentage that their concerns cannot be simply dismissed as you imply. Yes, high end PvP is perhaps 2-5% of the population. But it's also one that generates a high enough percentage of the total platinum revenue that it's concerns, it's worries should merit some response from STS.

For PvE, those new weapons are just wonderful to play with, and so far STS doesn't seem to want to nerf them any further than increasing their base stat requirement. Maybe they did this because it's actually the PvE players that bring in way more money than the lot of PvP players in this game.

Strong disagreement there. Why?

It worsens a problem I brought up earlier.

For new players, leveling appears to have been made more accessible. STS appears to have reduced the xp requirements to get to the endgame. I don’t view this as a good thing. For a new player to understand PL, despite its simplified mechanics and play it to a level I would define as “competent”, they need a certain level of experience to absorb everything that is around them. The end result is that we now have players that are even less prepared for the endgame and far more likely to be carried or use elixirs because frankly, they suck.

Handing players weapons that allow them to faceroll PvE at the lower levels has several harmful effects:

1. It prevents players from achieving that level of competence I mentioned - only this time by giving them an unbalancing weapon
2. From STS perspective, it may hurt in the short run as well - a player who used such a weapon might just be a lost elixir sale; I suppose this is a long term vs short term issue; perhaps from a monetary perspective, sacrificing 2 for 1 is the best option for STS. Hmm on the other hand, perhaps not. Elixir users will be elixir users no matter what, so maybe they are forgoing short term sales. In that case, all the more reason to nerf - more platinum sales for people who want to pal for a faceroll in the lower level PvE dungeons.
3. It also prevents a steady scale of difficulty. By that I mean, the hardest dungeon should always be the endgame ones, and the easiest the first one, with each dungeon becoming progressively harder than the last. An exception might be given to the "elite" dungeons such as the Shadow Caves, but the main dungeons should generally be progressively tougher. Such a weapon unbalances that too. A weapon unbalancing suddenly makes the next couple of dungeons a faceroll and then when said weapon becomes redundant due to higher levels - it's a shock for the player.
4. It depresses the value of every other weapon in the CS in that level range and above (so long as the Forgotten weapons are superior)

The point is, there are good reasons even in PvE to get these forgotten weapons nerfed.

[WhoIsThis]

Phew!

Very glad this thread survived. Awesome work bro!
There isn't much to add, except for the question about the scewed range (+/- 2m when chasing/running). I don't even know if this is intentional, and if so, why!?

I hope this thread will prove to have been worth the effort...

1. I had to ask the mods to unlock the thread in person.

2. I do not know if the range issue is a bug or intentional game design. I cannot find a developer comment at this time, and as such, remain inconclusive.


Edit:

If the issue is bugging you, I suggest you post it in the bugs and technical issues section.

[Yich]

This guy does his research. Still any confirmation on plans of nerf/no nerf?

[WhoIsThis]

Still any confirmation on plans of nerf/no nerf?

Inconclusive. At time of this writing, no dev response on the state of these weapons has been made. It's entirely possible that they may announce that the weapons were made potent temporarily for the event, or they may opt for it for good. Until there is a response, we can say inconclusive for now. If there is no response though for more than 1 month though, I'd say the OP stats are here to stay.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Glad this thread is back! Hated to see it get locked.

[Thelastblink]

Thnx devs for unlocking... Please consider this thread and change the game to the old PL i once loved and had passion for! First step could be to nerf the forgotten items A LOT and get some former players in again!

[XghostzX]

As said above, I'm glad this thread is unlocked. I as well hope things can go back to the way it was... the new UI brought way too many bugs.