phantom set vs blacksmoke mountain pinks?

**wvhills** · 10-23-2012, 10:10 AM

Hey guys, I'm slowing leveling up my bird (at 73 now). I was looking in CS at BSM pinks and I can't decide if they are any better or not. It looks like I would gain 2 armor per piece but lose 4 dodge and lose 3 damage and 7 crit on the helm and armor but gain about 15 damage on the recurve but still lose the 7 crit. I'm sure the skill damage goes up a lot but does the increase make up for 21 crit and 12 dodge?!

**JaytB** · 10-23-2012, 10:26 AM

Somehow I've lost my pics of stats of my bird with phantom bow at lv76 (only have the 71 ones left), and I already sold the set.

But, I included the stats of the new uncrafted lv75 recurve set below...

Maybe if some lvl 75-76 could post their stats with phantom bow here, you could compare both.

Edit: pics are without vanities or rings

**wvhills** · 10-23-2012, 10:37 AM

thanks man! I must have been looking at the wrong things in CS. Ur crit is 47 and mine is 52 with phantom bow. My dodge is 22 compared to ur 7. Ur damage and dps is a lot higher tho and blast shot max is about 26 higher. I guess I'll try for the new set if I can find a way to kill those bosses. haha.

**TANKKAAR** · 10-23-2012, 10:38 AM

Here you go, both pictures were taken without any bonuses. I will say you to lose some Dodge however the damage that you get in place of it more than compensates.

Edit: looking at my stats compared to J a mage must of bumped me with revive in town....lol

**FluffNStuff** · 10-23-2012, 10:43 AM

Over the basic of Tiki set (which I preferred for its raw power), you have 20 points of damage but you lose 7 points of crit. My blast shot is 511-539. Now that 7% crit is 36 extra damage on the blast shot, but you have to take into account that your working crit is 70.1*, so that 20 point increase is actually a 34 point increase. Also when you look at basic damage of 370, the 7% crit on that is 25.9 so the 34 point increase on the damage does make it marginally stronger. So yes, in ~theory~ it is stronger, but that does not mean I don't want to hang what ever Techno Email is responsible for upping the hit percentage and dropping the crit.

* Working crit = 47 + 2/3 * 35 since your focus is active for 20 seconds every 30 seconds.

**TANKKAAR** · 10-23-2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

Over the basic of Tiki set (which I preferred for its raw power), you have 20 points of damage but you lose 7 points of crit. My blast shot is 511-539. Now that 7% crit is 36 extra damage on the blast shot, but you have to take into account that your working crit is 70.1*, so that 20 point increase is actually a 34 point increase. Also when you look at basic damage of 370, the 7% crit on that is 25.9 so the 34 point increase on the damage does make it marginally stronger. So yes, in ~theory~ it is stronger, but that does not mean I don't want to hang what ever Techno Email is responsible for upping the hit percentage and dropping the crit.

* Working crit = 47 + 2/3 * 35 since your focus is active for 20 seconds every 30 seconds.

everything that you said...lol

also it would behoove you to remember right now we are comparing apples to oranges, as the new sets have sparkle but no set bonus yet. I'm looking forward to comparing apples to apples once the set is crafted...lol

**FluffNStuff** · 10-23-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by TANKKAAR

Edit: looking at my stats compared to J a mage must of bumped me with revive in town....lol

You just have 5 extra dex because you are 76

**CrimsonTider** · 10-23-2012, 11:13 AM

Soooooo....

With all this hit% for birds, any hit debuffs from other classes are useless against them. lol

**wvhills** · 10-23-2012, 12:43 PM

thanks guys. It looks like if I don't have it I won't stand a chance in pvp. I'm going to wait til crafted comes out before I decide. How are warbirds looking for pvp this cap? It looks like the str gear got a bigger bump than dex.

**JaytB** · 10-23-2012, 12:49 PM

I wish I had more time to make a comparison thread like I did in the past. But, except for bears, the current sets seems to be seriously underwhelming to say the least. Dmg and hit% is generally a bit higher, while armor and dodge are similar or less (especially for mages) as compared to previous sets. And although this might balance PvP out to some extend, it sucks against the harder hitting enemies and bosses in PvE.

That said, these are still uncrafted sets. I seriously hope crafted sets will offer something way better as compared to what we got now.

**wvhills** · 10-23-2012, 12:56 PM

i may stick with pure dex then. I'm not great in pvp but I find bears to be by far the easiest. I'm worse against int mages so I'm glad they're going down in power. i have a hard time against paladins and warbirds so I'll need to practice against them. I saw one of my friends had the level 75 talon set. It looked nice, high armor, high dodge and decent damage.

**Bless** · 10-23-2012, 12:58 PM

Not really a fair set comparison because BSM pinks are not crafted but phantom are

**Brave Sir Robin** · 10-24-2012, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

Over the basic of Tiki set (which I preferred for its raw power), you have 20 points of damage but you lose 7 points of crit. My blast shot is 511-539. Now that 7% crit is 36 extra damage on the blast shot, but you have to take into account that your working crit is 70.1*, so that 20 point increase is actually a 34 point increase. Also when you look at basic damage of 370, the 7% crit on that is 25.9 so the 34 point increase on the damage does make it marginally stronger. So yes, in ~theory~ it is stronger, but that does not mean I don't want to hang what ever Techno Email is responsible for upping the hit percentage and dropping the crit.

* Working crit = 47 + 2/3 * 35 since your focus is active for 20 seconds every 30 seconds.

Well put. Just a note that hit% and enemy armor factors count in favour of the Dragon recurve (hit% goes in the dodge equation and armor lessens the comparative advantage of added crit).

Apart from that, I think it is fair that the new state-of-the-art weapons are just a bit (if any) better than the elite items of the previous campaign. This shows respect to the effort, gold and plat that their owners put to obtain them. The fear that these 'elites' would become obsolete with the release of Blacksmoke Mountain was expressed many times here and obviously the devs listened.

**JaytB** · 10-24-2012, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin

Apart from that, I think it is fair that the new state-of-the-art weapons are just a bit (if any) better than the elite items of the previous campaign. This shows respect to the effort, gold and plat that their owners put to obtain them. The fear that these 'elites' would become obsolete with the release of Blacksmoke Mountain was expressed many times here and obviously the devs listened.

The problem with this is that the enemies and bosses hit harder and are harder to kill. So you'd expect better gear to be able to run through the levels. If they really want to keep the gear similar to previous cap gear, they should keep the enemies' toughness the same too.

On top of that, why do we even lvl if you hardly get any stronger in the process? For me, the one thing to look forward to in new campaigns was to see how my character evolved and became stronger each cap. As an example for mages, I can survive better in lv70 gear as compared to lvl75 gear. That just sucks IMO.

And I know crafting hasn't been implemented yet, but in the past the gear of new lvl caps, with a difference of only 1 lvl, was usually noticeably stronger as the best crafted gear of the previous caps. So, personally I feel a bit disappointed to see that gear 5 lvls higher now is in lots of points weaker than gear from the last cap. It takes the reason why I was looking forward to new caps (getting stronger) away.

But yeah, that's just my opinion about it.

**Brave Sir Robin** · 10-24-2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by JaytB

The problem with this is that the enemies and bosses hit harder and are harder to kill. So you'd expect better gear to be able to run through the levels. If they really want to keep the gear similar to previous cap gear, they should keep the enemies' toughness the same too.

On top of that, why do we even lvl if you hardly get any stronger in the process? For me, the one thing to look forward to in new campaigns was to see how my character evolved and became stronger each cap. As an example for mages, I can survive better in lv70 gear as compared to lvl75 gear. That just sucks IMO.

And I know crafting hasn't been implemented yet, but in the past the gear of new lvl caps, with a difference of only 1 lvl, was usually noticeably stronger as the best crafted gear of the previous caps. So, personally I feel a bit disappointed to see that gear 5 lvls higher now is in lots of points weaker than gear from the last cap. It takes the reason why I was looking forward to new caps (getting stronger) away.

But yeah, that's just my opinion about it.

This is reasonable. A possible way to keep everyone happy would be to introduce a more sophisticated crafting system. Like, you worked very hard to get your elite weapon. It will not be as good as the new campaign's gear (especially the lvl. 75 ones) but you will have the opportunity to upgrade it using materials from the new campaign.

This way, elite weapons won't lose their value and the obvious demand for stronger gear to play a tougher campaign will be satisfied.

**wvhills** · 10-24-2012, 12:24 PM

Let me ask you guys a noob question...
what are the pieces of the dex set you guys have? The ones I'm seeing in CS show they lower my crit by either 4 or 7 for each piece. Idk how you have such high crit. With my phantom set I have 52 crit so I should have either 40 or 31 but u guys are showing 47?

Also, is the range of the recurve 10 or 8m?

**JaytB** · 10-24-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by robert7204

Let me ask you guys a noob question...
what are the pieces of the dex set you guys have? The ones I'm seeing in CS show they lower my crit by either 4 or 7 for each piece. Idk how you have such high crit. With my phantom set I have 52 crit so I should have either 40 or 31 but u guys are showing 47?

Also, is the range of the recurve 10 or 8m?

Set bonus adds 5crit, and maybe 1 or 2 more because of the added dex of each item (+4 dex from set bonus).

Bows generally have a 10m range (as opposed to xbows 13m).

Edit: ow, and each items adds 2 less crit. Not 4 or 7 (10 vs 12 crit). Gear is called flying dragonscale or something

**wvhills** · 10-24-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by JaytB

Set bonus adds 5crit, and maybe 1 or 2 more because of the added dex of each item (+4 dex from set bonus).

Bows generally have a 10m range (as opposed to xbows 13m).

Edit: ow, and each items adds 2 less crit. Not 4 or 7 (10 vs 12 crit). Gear is called flying dragonscale or something

Ok, thanks! I didn't think there was a set bonus so it was confusing. I just came back from CS and they are totally out of level 75 dex gear.

I'm 74 right now but I was hoping to get it to have it ready. Lol.

**AbsolutePally** · 10-24-2012, 04:01 PM

Seems to me mages are being put back into their respective role a support healers, not mother ships. And birds are the snipers, squishy yes, a lot of dps//dmg heck ya. And bears can tank and also do damage but are easily susceptible to Debuffs which Is the key to taking them down (along with teamwork) which is how you typically take down a tank.
Mages can no longer tank close to a bear (armor wise) dodge like a bird (base dodge wise) AND do more damage than a bear and bird combined. I predict a lot of "pro" mages having to adjust their "style" of play.
That or a ton of warbirds and pallies. Although a pally, formerly known as, I am for class specific gear.