Skyward works once every 3 tries, for me. I find Windmill pretty beast when it's updated to 6.
Skyward works once every 3 tries, for me. I find Windmill pretty beast when it's updated to 6.
i guess your referring to me. Yes I am a tank. And no I do not use trollbane. The dot is worth giving up 100%crit, last time I checked it only did like 1 damage every tick in elite maps. All I can do is add you in game and let ya join are elite runs and see how well you hold aggro. But from actual tests in game windmill is not worth the waste of a skill point.Originally Posted by Kenoon
With passives coming maybe builds will change but ATM in any elite bael, troll or mother runs windmill is not helping the party.
I'll have to give that build a try if you can actually hold aggro with a top10 rogue. I really find that hard to believe if they are using lifethief.. one of my guildies is a top5 rogue and he pulls aggro very fast if he goes all out, but he literally hasn't met a warrior yet that can hold aggro against his full barrage.
axe throw with jug spamming CS constantly is d real taunt det NO ONE ever can pull :O
Sounds awesome!
May I ask, since this party setup has no mage to heal mana and decurse (which will increase dmg for dps classes and put a warrior with less dps skills like your build at a disadvantage), were the rogues in your party chugging mana pots consistently? Don't mean to question the integrity of these esteemed rogues, but psychologically humans may not mind paying tens of thousands for cosmetic surgery, but grimace and think twice for common cold medicine. Same for top end gear versus mana pots.
Another consideration is how long was the battle for elite stabb? He has less hp than jarl or baal. My theory is that the longer the boss fight, the more it benefits dps classes, allowing the gap between them and tanks to widen. This is of special significance because you are using juggernaut as well. I notice you mentioned in the other thread that juggernaut has 25sec duration, 45 sec cd. May I double check with you again regarding this? The last time I checked, the duration was 15sec. This means for the fight with elite stabb, which could not have lasted very long, much of the fight was spent with it on cooldown. This also calls to mind the effect of what exactly the juggernaut taunt does - i.e. is the 30sec downtime worth skipping another skill?
In any case, I'm sure it was no mean feat holding your agro against two accomplished rogues. Well done! This brings hope to the warrior class heh.
I'm trying a variant of that right now.. axe, cs, vengeful, and HoR instead of Jugg. I feel like the cooldown for jugg might be too long since it's the only "real" taunt skill you'd have in the build. I do love the damage reduction in jugg, but a 45 second cooldown with only 15 seconds of active time is pretty steep for your ONLY real taunt skill.
It seems to be working well so far.. haven't lost aggro yet in any of the PUG jarl runs I've done, but I haven't tested it with a top rogue.
Scratch that.. I just lost aggro to a slightly lower DPS warrior that was using ss, cs, axe throw.. he was pumping mana pots though.
Hey Kenoon I am pretty sure you are referring to me, if not I apologize. My IGN is Nutstomper and indeed was guildless and have the stats and skills you reference. I've seen you run Jarl many times and have positioned myself at an angle to most tanks to see what kind of threat output I can muster with a non "tank" build.
I can attest that CS is NOT a taunt skill. It does stack threat but will not get a mob to turn immediately unless you are at the threat thresh hold. As for "spamming" skills, I can assure you there is a rhyme and reason to the order in which I execute skills. Usually the only times I lose aggro is against a Warrior who is using Juggernaut, and even then only for half the duration of a dps cycle.
Anyhow, just stopping by to say hello. And to add my two cents:
-CS+WW is generally enough to hold aggro even against lifethief rogues with NO OTHER taunts if your two other skills are well chosen and executed. This held true for me personally even at 88-93 base damage. CS also seems to me to add more threat when it actually cancels an attack.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt, although keep in mind that I own half the leaderboards now
Last edited by Nutstomper; 12-15-2012 at 01:56 AM.
Nutstomper: My guess: 7356
Thanks for sharing your experience! It resonates with my theory that the warrior tank cannot simply rely on taunts (horn renew, juggernaut and axe throw) to hold agro, or at least not easily and without a good set of dps gear as well. Seeing as I never owned the best sword myself, I could never test it this way myself. We need more warriors to share their experience as well and we can learn together
I suppose as Kenoon mentioned, there might possibly be a hidden threat modifier attached to timely and judicious use of CS to cancel windups. Makes it more exciting and requires more skill than simply button-mashing I guess.
Sidetrack a little, but one thing I'm worried about is that after the next update, warriors might find it even harder to keep agro, unless existing game mechanics are tweaked. Assuming 1hand+shield heralds stronger bossess that hit very hard, we might be trading too much of our dps away for survivability. And since our job is to maintain agro... What's the point of staying alive only to lose agro? Hopefully my fears are unfounded.
Hey Kenoon I am pretty sure you are referring to me, if not I apologize. My IGN is Nutstomper and indeed was guildless and have the stats and skills you reference. I've seen you run Jarl many times and have positioned myself at an angle to most tanks to see what kind of threat output I can muster with a non "tank" build.
I can attest that CS is NOT a taunt skill. It does stack threat but will not get a mob to turn immediately unless you are at the threat thresh hold. As for "spamming" skills, I can assure you there is a rhyme and reason to the order in which I execute skills. Usually the only times I lose aggro is against a Warrior who is using Juggernaut, and even then only for half the duration of a dps cycle.
Anyhow, just stopping by to say hello. And to add my two cents:
-CS+WW is generally enough to hold aggro even against lifethief rogues with NO OTHER taunts if your two other skills are well chosen and executed. This held true for me personally even at 88-93 base damage. CS also seems to me to add more threat when it actually cancels an attack.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt, although keep in mind that I own half the leaderboards now
Hi there bud!
Yes, under my most recent update, CS builds up threat for tankers.
As observed too, an effective CS that cancels a boss's skill builds up much more threat than a CS that was executed just for the sake of Skill rotation.
I believe many other tankers would take notice of this characteristic when someone uses a charged HoR to taunt Jarl but was later lose out the taunt immediately after another warrior cancels Jarl's windup.
Btw that warrior i saw his IGN is Tempus.
Anyway, as we get all our gears up fully with vengeful blood, hitting beyond 100 damage on screen is possible for Warrior at Lv16.
Would be excited to play around with respec soon for the upcoming patch!
Last edited by Kenoon; 12-15-2012 at 01:27 PM.
OneAxeHole @ MapleSEA.
Guild Master of Singaporeans.
Kenoon - Lv21 Tank Warrior.
Hiddenleaf - Lv15 Pure Dex Ranger
ur build resembles me exactly.Hey Kenoon I am pretty sure you are referring to me, if not I apologize. My IGN is Nutstomper and indeed was guildless and have the stats and skills you reference. I've seen you run Jarl many times and have positioned myself at an angle to most tanks to see what kind of threat output I can muster with a non "tank" build.
I can attest that CS is NOT a taunt skill. It does stack threat but will not get a mob to turn immediately unless you are at the threat thresh hold. As for "spamming" skills, I can assure you there is a rhyme and reason to the order in which I execute skills. Usually the only times I lose aggro is against a Warrior who is using Juggernaut, and even then only for half the duration of a dps cycle.
Anyhow, just stopping by to say hello. And to add my two cents:
-CS+WW is generally enough to hold aggro even against lifethief rogues with NO OTHER taunts if your two other skills are well chosen and executed. This held true for me personally even at 88-93 base damage. CS also seems to me to add more threat when it actually cancels an attack.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt, although keep in mind that I own half the leaderboards now
CS; WM ; HoR nd Venge Blood. only my base dmg is 70 nd bonus dmg% is 202%.
well CS only tends to keep aggro if nd only if u use charged CS otherwise. other warriors or rogue pull aggro from u.
Our build are not the same. I do not include HOR in my build at all, Just Veng, SS, WW, CS. As I stated earlier Jugg Warriors are able to pull aggro for a very very brief period of time. Rogues, generally speaking, do not pose a problem.
It may be that your base damage is much too low.
Nutstomper: My guess: 7356
I'm back to using SS, CS, Venge, and HoR. I have 90 base damage with one of the junkie vorpals.
I tried a bunch of other builds, but none of them did that well for me.. the combination of good DPS with vengeful up + the taunt from HoR work great in my case. I always keep aggro unless I'm up against a lifethief rogue that gets a good string of criticals, but in that case, they should know to ease up a bit because no tank can hold aggro with that DPS. I use it on my rogue and there is no tank I've come across that can hold aggro with my full barrage.
I haven't tried your build, nut, using WM instead of HoR. I might give it a try, but I haven't had issues with aggro and it's nice never having to use any potions at all. That build would be the only one that I can think of which MIGHT pull aggro from me. We should test it out.
i really hate the aggro pulling by rogues issue. i hope nxt update rogues nd mage shouldnt pull aggro O:-)
base dmg is useless for warrior as it has mch delay in swinging weapon. as HoR healing nd other skills r bonus dmg% dependent i.e. more bonus dmg% the greater will b d healing of HoR so i focus only on bonus dmg %. well jug taunts 2time every 45sec but HoR can also taunt 2times every 30sec (15sec CD*2 times skill use) as well as heal other party members. so i prefer HoR than jug :-). anyway we hav different minds so different views so different playstyle ;-).
A team of serious party for stronger bosses in future would definitely prefer a tanking warrior with HoR.
Juggernaut is just too self centered skill with long cooldown. As mentioned in other post, i personally won't consider Juggernaut unless server reduces the cooldown for it.
OneAxeHole @ MapleSEA.
Guild Master of Singaporeans.
Kenoon - Lv21 Tank Warrior.
Hiddenleaf - Lv15 Pure Dex Ranger
I've also found another nice tanking build. Skyward Smash,Chest splitter,vengeful blood and horn of renew.
Sounds nice
yup this indeed a bst dps build as that can keep avg aggro. i use the same build for my alt dps warrior. i recently discovered that only charged CS pulls aggro. correct me if m wrong :-)
I never charge CS.. the only things I charge are HoR and Vengeful Blood.
I was running Jarl earlier and came across the first warrior ever to pull aggro from me.. he had my exact same DPS (90) but his build was a little different. He was using Chest Splitter, Skyward Smash, Windmill, and Vengeful Blood--that's right, no HoR or Juggernaut. He was able to hold aggro from me for most of the fight. I would take it occasionally when I used all my skills at the same time, but he was able to get it back quickly.
His name is Durogs and he was kind enough to share his build with me! So thanks, Durogs. =)
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