rally cry worthless?

[Wizard_Mike]

Nope...I understood Vengeful Blood is worthless then he went on something else. Don't want to get the OP or people reading this thinking that Vengeful Blood it's worthless, that's all. When is a staple on my build and on many others already listed here. Then you went on about something else about not dying, so I'll simply proof that I won't die on Vengeful Blood and no Rally Cry. So where's the beef-o-roni lol?

Yeah, you thought he was saying VB was useless,period, despite all the context that came after which clearly showed he meant "useless for the purely defensive build" that he was going for. I was merely pointing out the context that you seemed to have overlooked.

Now you seem to be thinking I'm making claims of my own, which is weird. And then started challenging me with your own build, lol. All I did was break down what he was saying for you, since you went way out in left field with it.

Where's the beef-o-roni, indeed.

[Enisceloz]

Yeah, you thought he was saying VB was useless,period, despite all the context that came after which clearly showed he meant "useless for the purely defensive build" that he was going for. I was merely pointing out the context that you seemed to have overlooked.

Now you seem to be thinking I'm making claims of my own, which is weird. And then started challenging me with your own build, lol. All I did was break down what he was saying for you, since you went way out in left field with it.

Where's the beef-o-roni, indeed.

Again my dude we going to be here all night. I keep reading it, and what does "Elite Tank" mean? I had said this when you first replied. Neither me or you know lol. Again beef-o-roni served hot or cold? Hahaha! Hopefully you get what I'm trying to understand from his post. If not then there's no use going on with this hehe.

[Wizard_Mike]

Again my dude we going to be here all night. I keep reading it, and what does "Elite Tank" mean? I had said this when you first replied. Neither me or you know lol. Again beef-o-roni served hot or cold? Hahaha! Hopefully you get what I'm trying to understand from his post. If not then there's no use going on with this hehe.

Yeah, I get what you are trying to understand from his posts, which is exactly what I'm trying to help you do, lol.

[Sharaobic]

any significant difference between aggro builds and defensive builds? does vengeful gives you more aggro? I was thinking going without any attack skill...because I just want to save my party...but then again someone said skyward smash gives you aggro...Juggernaut and Horn renew will be in my build...rally cry will be very helpfull at insane 900 or 1000 armor...and with that much armor 500 hp of vengeful blood will be way more lasting and helpful...but if attacks like skyward give u aggro I am ready to give up vengeful blood and get a mana regen pet like snaggletooth..thanks

[Kenoon]

This skill is pretty useful for mass mobbing and leveling.
With all skills learnt except for the 4th one (movement speed)
You will give party members 7.5% damage reduction (which is quite alot) and 37.5% dodge rate.
With your basic gears at Lv21, should be able to hit above 40% dodge rate.

For tanking wise, there are better skill options to choose.

[Wizard_Mike]

any significant difference between aggro builds and defensive builds? does vengeful gives you more aggro? I was thinking going without any attack skill...because I just want to save my party...but then again someone said skyward smash gives you aggro...Juggernaut and Horn renew will be in my build...rally cry will be very helpfull at insane 900 or 1000 armor...and with that much armor 500 hp of vengeful blood will be way more lasting and helpful...but if attacks like skyward give u aggro I am ready to give up vengeful blood and get a mana regen pet like snaggletooth..thanks

Yeah, there is definitely a difference. You can go all defense and miss a lot of good tanking skills that have taunts and other mechanics. Chest splitter is an attack that taunts, and can be upgraded to stop enemy windups (when you see the red ray of light on the ground). Axe throw is a taunt, but it works at range so you can pull enemies from a distance, instead of running up to them.

Rally cry is nice, but with no taunt, it will do nothing to help you hold aggro. Some people swear by vengeful blood, sky smash, or windmill for tanking. It's all really up to you. But if all you're concerned with us taunting and staying alive, I recommend checking out the Ugg's tanking build thread.

[Ashanto]

You know VB when charged gives you 500 HP???? While keeping your mana practically intact. How is this not considered survival??

*Actually let me add to that, and when used first in a skill cycle it obviously increases your strength (+50 when charged) thus increasing your Bonus Dmg% thus increasing the effects of the rest of your skills in your cycle. It's both an offensive and defensive skill. I think I rest my case now lol.

What do you drop to get VB? There is nothing about it that increases DPS, threat, or taunt more than adding another taunt attack skill instead. VB is only usefull if you use Windmill and and Skyward Smash in your build and you are going after large groups of mobs and want to DPS solo. In a group you are actually lowering overall DPS by not using Jugg, Axe, Chest, and Horn. If you can't hold agro and taunt, then a rogue and mage cannot do full DPS. If you can hold mobs, then DPS classes can go full steam increasing DPS more than what you can do alone without fear of pulling a bad guy and dying.

The only use for VB is soloing, that's it. And Nexus is by far your best friend for mana regen, dmg, HP, and dmg reduction.

[Ashanto]

No, that was your interpretation of his words. We still don't know what he was talking about with certainty lol.

I get enough defense with my equipment/pets and my HoR. The rest is helped by me and taken care by my party. I hardly spend pots (anywhere) unless it's a Watchers run (with a ok group lol) and I've yet to see a Warrior run that motha like I do lol.

...I do what I preach bro lol.

There is zero possibility to hold threat with VB in your build when running with geared rogues and mages. A Wars threat generation from attacking and attack skills is not even close to the threat generation of a top rogue just auto attacking. You may be able to keep yourself alive, but you have no chance what-so-ever of pulling agro off a rogue without more than just Horn.

[Ashanto]

BTW, any war in a group that doesn't use Nexus is already hurting the group. Rogues and Mages both have mana problems with top DPS gear. If a war uses Nexus's Arcane ability nonstop, then no one in party will ever run out of mana and have to watch when to pot. Everyone can focus on DPS

[Reggin]

^^^^^^^ Sold!

[Enisceloz]

What do you drop to get VB? There is nothing about it that increases DPS, threat, or taunt more than adding another taunt attack skill instead. VB is only usefull if you use Windmill and and Skyward Smash in your build and you are going after large groups of mobs and want to DPS solo. In a group you are actually lowering overall DPS by not using Jugg, Axe, Chest, and Horn. If you can't hold agro and taunt, then a rogue and mage cannot do full DPS. If you can hold mobs, then DPS classes can go full steam increasing DPS more than what you can do alone without fear of pulling a bad guy and dying.

The only use for VB is soloing, that's it. And Nexus is by far your best friend for mana regen, dmg, HP, and dmg reduction.

Those are exactly the attack skills that I have. And the only point I agree with you is on the use of full DPS by the rest of the party on a boss. The rest you clearly don't understand team mechanics or haven't played with good Sorcerers or Rogues (maybe I happen to be fortunate, HOWEVER I do a lot of PUGs and keep I everyone alive on any map) I'm going to refer you to my build and the way I use it. And you can give it a test spin if you like. I'm too lazy to go into details here. And btw I never solo, waste of time and pots buddy!

Heres my post: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...anations/page2 (refer to #26)

There is zero possibility to hold threat with VB in your build when running with geared rogues and mages. A Wars threat generation from attacking and attack skills is not even close to the threat generation of a top rogue just auto attacking. You may be able to keep yourself alive, but you have no chance what-so-ever of pulling agro off a rogue without more than just Horn.

Again lol, want to bet? (I'm only doing this because I don't want to write a research paper lol). Take out your Sorcerer or Rogue and come do a WT4 run with me. Ill pull half the map lol, and you'll be alive IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR CLASS and kill almost everyone in about 5-7 minutes depending on your Damage. (which again brings me to the point all builds will be less effective if you're not on a good party). The only time I loose aggro is on a boss like you said. If the party decides to skill spam then I agree with you. HOWEVER lol, if the Sorcerer or Rogue decides to do that they are fully aware that they must use some pots to stay alive, so they assume that responsibility of a "tank". Because like we have said here MILLIONS of times in the Warriors section our taunts are weak! And I'm not going to go full taunt build because that's not the way I play, I find those skills pretty stale to my playstyle (no offense to those out there that use it). We are dwelling too much into this aggro stuff when really is not as effective since the update came out. Why? Simply because Sorcerers and Mages (again if they know how to play) can survive most situations specially if they are fully geared.

[Reggin]

Very true Eni... sts messing it up and allowing other classes to survive more than 2 shots in an elite map reduced the need for pure taunting. My rogue can easily pull aggro still from non taunt builds.

The difference is at 16 it meant I'd die, and at 20 it means I'll kite and spam pots.

[Enisceloz]

Very true Eni... sts messing it up and allowing other classes to survive more than 2 shots in an elite map reduced the need for pure taunting. My rogue can easily pull aggro still from non taunt builds.

The difference is at 16 it meant I'd die, and at 20 it means I'll kite and spam pots.

Yeah man I know you mentioned it on another post. Honestly I base my info on tons of runs everywhere (Watchers, Kraag Tombs, Haunted, Common Elite Maps) with parties ranging from some of the top players (such as you), to really crappy PUG teams. And I feel like a lot of people who post here haven't really have that much experience and are trying to give very narrow advice. Because some of these posts I'm like WTH is he/she talking about lol.

I'm telling you man if taunt gets a boost, more people will leave the 4 taunt skill set up (if their sole purpose is too keep aggro) and maybe go with 1-2 taunt. And will be at more liberty to try and have a variety of skills set-ups that suits each individual playing styles. This will make the Warrior great again hehe!!

[crestmage]

I think a Warrior should be a tank no matter what build set-up (just depends on the skill of the player). His main job is to divert the mobs attantion to him (currently is pretty much hard to do with a single boss) and take the blunt of the damage while the Sorcerer nukes and the Rogue does prioritize killing. So that's my basis. All this talk about pure-tank, hybrid, solo, mob blah blah blah are just playing styles that suits different situations in the game.

Trying being a tank when Pvp comes out. Have fun.

[Enisceloz]

Trying being a tank when Pvp comes out. Have fun.

This is the only useful thing you could say? lol. I will have fun, maybe I won't PvP how about that? But I will and I will adjust accordingly...now you can go have fun bud!

[Sharaobic]

With PvP, defence will be more than tanking..so I think people will make a new PvP build...Juggernaut,Horn renew,Rally cry and the last skill can be Vengeful...u dont need aggro..opponent will have to attack you.....suppose u have great armor and health(lets take 3500 hp and 950 armor) the opponent just managed to damage u by 500..then suddenly vengeful gives u that 500 hp back!! u become immortal...in pvp it will be wareior vs rogues...damage vs defence...mages will always die in between ....ok final my build has juggernaut, horn renew..only 2 slots empty..I can fill one with vengeful and the other with an attack...not windmill or axe throw...skyward or CS...just want to ask you can skyward pull equal aggro as CS....can CS knockback..the boss...if i had nexus I would unlock rally cry it will be very useful with high armor and pvp.

[Kenoon]

With PvP, defence will be more than tanking..so I think people will make a new PvP build...Juggernaut,Horn renew,Rally cry and the last skill can be Vengeful...

I don't think anyone would be that foolish to use Juggernaut + HoR + RC + VB and didn't bring his brain for PVP...

u dont need aggro..opponent will have to attack you.....suppose u have great armor and health(lets take 3500 hp and 950 armor) the opponent just managed to damage u by 500..then suddenly vengeful gives u that 500 hp back!! u become immortal..

FYI, Vengeful blood when executed, your character will stand on the same spot for 1 second for casting, that 1 second alone will cause you to take hits from a rogue or mage. That won't make us an immortal.
Vengeful blood i would advise to cast it before engagement since the boost in health, damage and critical rate is more for offensive purpose. The extra health is more of an insurance for engagement.

in pvp it will be wareior vs rogues...damage vs defence...mages will always die in between ....

Unfortunately the ugly truth is, mage has many rooting or snare spells to slow other classes.
Before you can touch them, you would be already be blown away and knockdown by their spells and they would be out from your range.

ok final my build has juggernaut, horn renew..only 2 slots empty..I can fill one with vengeful and the other with an attack...not windmill or axe throw...skyward or CS...just want to ask you can skyward pull equal aggro as CS....can CS knockback..the boss...if i had nexus I would unlock rally cry it will be very useful with high armor and pvp.

When i see you ask the question about Skyward's aggro is it equal to CS,
i facepalmed myself for reading your theorycrafting in this thread.. that question is the most basic thing a warrior will find out after fighting like few elite jarls in party...

[crestmage]

This is the only useful thing you could say? lol. I will have fun, maybe I won't PvP how about that? But I will and I will adjust accordingly...now you can go have fun bud!

Lol was just jk. But seriously tho, pvp is gonna be a blast!

[Sharaobic]

I don't think anyone would be that foolish to use Juggerna
ut + HoR + RC + VB and didn't bring his brain for PVP...





FYI, Vengeful blood when executed, your character will stand on the same spot for 1 second for casting, that 1 second alone will cause you to take hits from a rogue or mage. That won't make us an immortal.
Vengeful blood i would advise to cast it before engagement since the boost in health, damage and critical rate is more for offensive purpose. The extra health is more of an insurance for engagement.





Unfortunately the ugly truth is, mage has many rooting or snare spells to slow other classes.
Before you can touch them, you would be already be blown away and knockdown by their spells and they would be out from your range.





When i see you ask the question about Skyward's aggro is it equal to CS,
i facepalmed myself for reading your theorycrafting in this thread.. that question is the most basic thing a warrior will find out after fighting like few elite jarls in party...

no...if a mage freeze u...juggernaut removes movement impairing effects..so u become unfreeze..if mage runs in circle..windmill or axe throw him...then grab his neck and continue to allow pressure with Cs...ur armor is 3x mages armor

rogue come near u .....use CS and knockback her.......Lol we really cant say anything until PvP comes out
I think you are forgetting a pure rank warrior has 70% damage reduction..if a rogue has lets say 250 damage...she will hit you for only 75 damage...

[riyann]

yea .. vengeful blood increases our crit , hp a lot and mana regen . increases our damage too . vengeful blood is a must for all warriors :3