Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

[Lady_Pebbles]

Hellurr... I've posted here before but I need to get things straight...

I have a capped Mage with top gear. I've PvPed in many, many games including all StS games (my fav being DL). That being said, I know how to play and how to strategize with my team mates.

However, it seems the only way we can play as Mages is by moving into a group thats fighting and start shooting in hope that we can get a kill. One on one vs a Rogue depends on that Rogue's hp already being drained and the same for a Warrior. We are forced to hit and run. Problem is, we run and get one shot killed by Rogues with Aimed Shot and/or Piercer skills, even with Warriors Vengence and/or whatever skill they use that makes then do a spin with a hammer.

Its sad that we have to rely on the Shield skill to survive for a minimum amount of time in matches. The shield is also useless againsr two Warriors or Two opponents in general. Hell even Frost doesn't stun nor slow down enemies, Fire's knock back doesn't go through unless charged & even then it doesn't always knock them down. Yes it can be done but we are literally -forced- to use skills we don't want to use and they aren't even as effective as they are intended to be for PvP.

Our skills really need a distinct overhaul. I mean it feels like we're not even causing any damage just tickling them. -_-

Seriously, please work more on the balance issue.



EDIT: BTW I have a capped Rogue as well. It doesn't have full capped gear and still pwns... So I -know- they're OP.

[nicoB]

Absolutely, and in all honesty that's why I play the mage class. I like being weaker than other classes and having to compensate with clever positioning, smart tactics, thought out builds. But theres a difference between 'underdog' and what's going on now. I agree that things will never be perfectly balanced, I do not agree that a change can't be made that wouldn't result in 'game breaking', that's a ridiculous line of logic. 'Well the games broken now but we'd better not bother trying to do anything about it because it'll only end up broken some more'. You're essentially conceding that mages are underpowered but your argument is now more along the lines of 'but why bother doing anything about it, just the way things go sometimes'. As it stands sorcerers aren't underdogs, we're cats locked into a cage full of wolves. Underdog would be a step up.

My statement about achange being game breaking was made because unlike you and a few other people everyone wants to be a mage tank some reason they want it to be soo easy, playing as any other class isnt easy either why should mage be easy. By no means does my arguement mean "why do anything about it now just the way things are." I was simply responding to you asking me if I'm "that desperate to avoid a mage buff" whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if there is one because there a lot better to run with than warriors or other rogues. mages make great teammates, which i believe is there current role in CTF which is a team effort since its not free for all deathmatch or 1vs1, if mages were as underpowerd as so many claim, i would just go solo.

[Erdnase]

I'm doing just fine in pvp and yes i'm a mage. At full life and mana, i can trash a warrior easily, and i'm 50/50 with rogue, les just hasn't met the right players yet. (and btw patrick uses hack so how is he anything to brag about? lol) Now i wouldn't go as far as to say that we r dominating the game at the moment, but i'm not going to say that we couldn't if we were all using the right skills. And if people want to be sore losers and leave the game, then let them, not to say that we couldn't have some change from how it is now, just don't be greedy and ask for ur class to be majorly juiced-up, thats just being childish.

[Energizeric]

After thinking about it more I think the main issue I'm finding is that in order to stun I must charge my fireball skill. The problem is that when warriors and rogues leap at me and surprise me, by the time I have time to charge any skill I am dead already. I think they need to cause Frost and Gale to properly stun as they do in PvE. Maybe not as extreme, but at least slow. Because in PvE I can use Frost without charging and it still causes the enemy to freeze. Charging only makes it AoE. I don't have Gale, but that should also result in pushing back the enemy a bit with a slight stun. This would give Mages at least a chance when a rogue comes rushing at us. We could stun them with a quick skill that does not need charging, and then could charge another skill to at least make it a fight.

[Erdnase]

agreed

[nicoB]

i Feel ok with my Mage, i hace faced several rogues 1 vs 1 and i kick their asses 90% of the time. With warriors is different, they take so much damage before u can make them run, so its a lil bit hard to kill 1, and to be honest a group of 2 or 3 warriors its almost imposible to beat.

Hes doing something right

[Tribalware]

My statement about achange being game breaking was made because unlike you and a few other people everyone wants to be a mage tank some reason they want it to be soo easy, playing as any other class isnt easy either why should mage be easy. By no means does my arguement mean "why do anything about it now just the way things are." I was simply responding to you asking me if I'm "that desperate to avoid a mage buff" whenever i play CTF i team up with a mage if there is one because there a lot better to run with than warriors or other rogues. mages make great teammates, which i believe is there current role in CTF which is a team effort since its not free for all deathmatch or 1vs1, if mages were as underpowerd as so many claim, i would just go solo.

Fair point, I suppose I should have been a bit more specific when I referred to a 'mage buff'. I'm willing to stick it out with my rubbish HP, I'm a tiny blue goblin it's not like I expected to have a sturdy constitution and I didn't even find that speccing for arcane shield did much to help with this so I don't see a HP buff doing much good either.

What I'm really getting at are some of the things mentioned briefly by Lady_Pebbles. On the one hand warrior and rogue skills sometimes work too well (bow range with swords, that grab and pull skill with the ridiculous range, perhaps aimed shot although I'm yet to be entirely convinced that's unfair), but most importantly our mage skills just don't work in PvP like they should. As mentioned above:

- Frost doesn't freeze, hell it doesn't even slow. There's something seriously wrong with that.
- Despite rogue/warrior abilities that let them zip all over the map, our only speed buff (from gale force which is a rubbish spell anyway) doesn't work in PvP. Why?
- Our fireball skill (our most useful PvP skill by a mile) doesn't always knock back/knock down like it should even when charged. Why?
- I've yet to see an enemy stunned by my lightning which should be doing so 20% of the time. Can't confirm this 100% but it seems to be missing.

If this is the case then the most useful aspects of ALL of our attack spells have been nerfed specifically for PvP, to hell with a HP buff I'd settle for my skills performing as they were intended to.

Essentially a warrior can reel me in whilst still out of my range or jump to me delivering an effective stun, then use that time to charge an AoE skill which decimates me and any other sorcs around before I've had a chance to charge a fireball whilst praying it does what it's supposed to and delivers a brief stun so I can run away. If a warrior is going to have better range (which makes no sense to me), better maneuverability, AoE damage, better stuns, insane hit points and armor AND a better healing buff than me, then I'd at least like the skills I have to work like they say they should. That would be a start.

We just have no niche at the moment, I spec for damage and do a lot of it when I'm able to. So I have a great time hiding behind a warrior and dealing out some pain, but PvP just doesn't work like that at the moment. You're forced to solo it half the time and as Lady_Pebbles points out this forces you to spec for skills you don't even want to use. I think anyone who wants to be a mage tank should start a tank, I just want my spells to work properly before I start trying to say warriors or rogues should have their stats nerfed or that mine should be buffed. I don't know enough to be making claims like that, but I do know that hurling a block of frozen ice at something should slow it down, and that as a wizard I should be able to hurl that magical icicle further than a warrior should be able to lampoon me with an axe before reeling me in like a fish and swirlying me to death with what is essentially an AoE spell while I'm stunned.

[Haowesie]

I respecced a bunch of times trying all sorts of things.

I maxed speed passive in one. Seems like it made no difference. Can u check?

Also, it's unfair others can use their skill while holding flag that allows then to move ahead quickly, but Mage speed boost skill is voided when carrying flag.

+1 ... I added heal to my skill sets because without the speed, I'd be dead or almost dead by the time I reach base. Mage needs speed, or please add a teleport skill

[Tribalware]

I'm doing just fine in pvp and yes i'm a mage. At full life and mana, i can trash a warrior easily, and i'm 50/50 with rogue, les just hasn't met the right players yet. (and btw patrick uses hack so how is he anything to brag about? lol) Now i wouldn't go as far as to say that we r dominating the game at the moment, but i'm not going to say that we couldn't if we were all using the right skills. And if people want to be sore losers and leave the game, then let them, not to say that we couldn't have some change from how it is now, just don't be greedy and ask for ur class to be majorly juiced-up, thats just being childish.

You can trash a warrior easily? What's your char's IGN because I insist on seeing that before I believe it, maybe you can teach me a thing or two hey? But seriously, if you're going to come on here saying that top players like les don't know what they're talking about and that Patrick uses hacks (which is a reeeeally bold thing to be saying unless you're 100% certain you're right) then you'd better be willing to back those big words up. I want to PvP team with you and watch you trash a warrior. My IGN is tribalware, add me. I have sweet gear, a dps of 273 and I've specced left right and centre, yet I have yet to boldly claim 'I just trashed a load of warriors in PvP'. In fact you're the only supposed mage I've ever heard say that. So, what's your IGN? I'd be more than happy to validate your claim here on the forums once I've seen you in action.

I am not asking for a major juice up, I'm asking for gale force to give me a speed buff (like it should), charged fireball to always cause knockdown (like it should) and freeze to... well freeze, or at least slow (like it should). That's what I'm asking for right now. That doesn't sound childish to me, unlike coming on here and bad-mouthing top players

[nicoB]

The extended range for axe throw and arrows is a glitch that people use by briefly moving into the minimum range of there skill just long enough to use it and then back up out of range of the other skills. some mqges do this with fireball aswell. onced any ranged skill is fired within minimun rang and it locks on target. it will literely follow across the map. One time i chadow pierced away from a fight and a axe came well out of range and pulles me all the way back to the warrior that used it, the same thing with fireball and arrows. All three of these skills can cut corners essentially moving through walls. so your fireball doesnt actually have shrter range

[nicoB]

If you want freeze like in pvp like it is in pvp, it would be OP because the freeze feom frost bolt lasts a pretty long time

[Rays364]

You know whats funny? Look on the pvp kills leaderboards. More than 2/3 of the people on there are rogues.

[Energizeric]

If you want freeze like in pvp like it is in pvp, it would be OP because the freeze feom frost bolt lasts a pretty long time

So make it shorter duration, or even just make it slow the enemy. But right now it does absolutely nothing except just a damage hit. There needs to be some way I can slow down or stop a rogue who is coming at me from a distance with that 1-hit blow that always kills me immediately, and it must be some skill I can use without charging since I don't have enough time to charge a skill.

[Tribalware]

fair enough, if freeze were to function in pvp like it does in pve then it might become overpowered, but we're entertaining hypotheticals. as it stands it is most definitely underpowered, they might as well rename it rock throw as all it does is damage. i can understand them removing the freeze, but not even adding a slow to it? i swear there are various warrior/rogue skills that slow me down and they obviously didn't get nerfed.

also point taken about the glitch but it is... well a glitch, meaning hopefully it'll get fixed. as it stands the range for axe throw is (i think?) 14m whereas the range for my fireball is 12m. assuming the game worked like it should and we didnt all have to mess around with exploits to get ahead, does that really seem fair? i would contend not.

much more importantly though I'm still waiting for a reply from Erdnase, I would politely request your IGN to confirm that 1) you're even a mage and 2) that you really can trash a warrior in PvP. my guild (home of patrick who you have accused of hacking, and les who you have accused of being ignorant) found the notion pretty laughable, so we are all waiting for you to put your money where your big blabby mouth is come on now... prove to us you're not just another warrior desperate not to get nerfed.

[nicoB]

Idk if the warrior just sucked or not but ive seen a mage trash a warrior with full hp and full demonlord while she was just wearing winter wonderland. i didnt even help her i just watched as she kicked this warriors butt. He even tried to run but it was in vain

[Tribalware]

Haha, sounds like a sight to behold. I'm not claiming a mage has never trashed a warrior, and boy would I be happy to hear that it happens more often. What I do cock my quizzical brow at is the idea that a mage can 'trash a warrior easily'. Erdnase says he does it all the time like it's nothing, all I've ever seen is warriors trashing mages and the only kills I get on warriors are from sneaking up behind an ongoing battle and zapping them to death while their hp is lowered and they aren't focused on me. That's a realistic tactic for mage vs. warrior. I just don't believe that a mage is capable of consistently soloing around a map and beating on warriors of equal build/gear strength.

Of course it happens every now and again, but without HP bars it's impossible to know what sort of state your enemy warrior was in when the battle started or whether or not they were out of mana etc. But I'm sure Erdnase will clear all of this up for us once we meet up for a chill in game and he lets me in on his warrior pwning secrets. Seriously, 10 bucks says he isn't even a mage. What sort of idiot goes around calling the top player (a mage at that) a hacker anyway? Not one I trust.

Anyway I'm going to back out of this thread a little I feel I'm going on a bit, I've made my points a good few times over and learned a lot from reading the opinions of others. Thanking you all kindly for your input and whatever the dev's decide to do I hope it works out best for the gaming community as a whole.

[rkp71]

as a mage when i get slowed then use gale to speed up i remain slowed, yet i see others classes fly all over the place after being stunned or slowed. same as when carrying flag, other classes zip around with flag, my gale speed does nothing.

[dakota1988]

again, free respecs.

[masteratarms]

My main character is a lvl 21 warrior and i keep getting dominated. So i got my lvl 20 rogue and was able to hold my own also i see some players using their pet but i am not able to use mine??

[yuriramos]

You know whats funny? Look on the pvp kills leaderboards. More than 2/3 of the people on there are rogues.

I did a survey too on the lb. Its infested by rogues. Now tell me this is not op.