What are your top PvP CTF balance concerns?

[inkredible]

I have come to accept most things but the one that I have the biggest issue with is the ridiculous range that Warriors have.

Somehow, it seems that their swords can hit me from 10-12m away. Their Stomps cover tremendous range (which in and of itself isn't a huge issue), but their Windmills seem to affect me around corners, and basically just within bow range. That has to stop. If Warriors attacks have bow-like range, well....that doesn't make that much sense to me.

Next is the concept of teaming - again, at it's core, not a huge issue, but Warriors traveling in packs are unstoppable. They keep buffing eachother to attain invincibility, plus their myriad of stun attacks and heal buffs make them far too OP.

Finally, I am reasonable fine with the incredible range that Sorcerers have, plus I have come to accept all of their stuns, but the invincibility shield puts them in the same class as Warriors. Two Sorcerers together, between the stun capability, long range fireballs, heals, etc., make them very hard to take down.

Rogues, unfortunately do not have any of the above abilities, so without the max crit attack (Aimed Shot), they are an inferior class, designed only for finishing kills. They cannot absorb much damage, they don't have any shield-like effect, they lack many of the stun attacks, and they seem to die rather quickly against a good group.

Just my 2 cents...

Yes because we can spec's to increase our range, just like other classes can specs other things more than we can, everyone has their ups and downs
I have played with 3 warriors and a rogue against 2 mages, 2 rogues - ya warriors are actually nothin when two mages n two rogues are involved
because 1st. MAGES STUNS ARE CRAZY, we cant move, and rogue's hit kills, and they both stun MORE accurately than warriors . but yes if a warrior stun you, expect that youre done. but when we get stun right after another right after another over and over.. we really cant do anything , we just die LOL

and by warriors in this.. i meant PRO warriors.. it was ME, ANDYPW, EVILSATAN - until i ofcourse invited my leaderboard friends bec we just couldnt win
i asked Bulsa and Vyridiana to join us, and ofcourse we owned LOL

[Vystirch]

Ok this is from my PvP thread: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...676#post966676

But to just answer Sam's question I have listed it below.


Classes:

Well as many of you have seen I have said often that the PvP is balanced.
This being said I still do believe it. I just see small tweaks needed to each class.

I have meet mages that cat solo rogues, mages that can solo warriors. Rogues that can solo mages, rogues that can solo warriors. Warriors that can solo mages, and warriors that can solo rogues.
This is why I think PvP is balanced.

warrior: Shield removed from horn; defense raised.
rogues: Dps decreased slightly.
mages: less time on fireballs stun time.

With these small changes I believe PvP will be much more balanced.
Also to help PvP become even more than just a 1-3hit kill zone I suggest dmg/dps and heal be sliced 25-50% for all classes.

[inkredible]

Take away Rogue's 'One hit kill'. Take away all these healing from warriors, cause they never die. I mean, us mages are too weak and we can't enjoy Player VS. Player at all when level 20 - 21. You just can't. You're the rat of the game. Level 10, 15 and 17 is good as a mage. Oh, and all I ask for is this:

Make something that auto boots players not moving (AFK) for more than a minute. It will allow teams to be HERE TO FIGHT and not AFK or will make non-stop PvP kill farmers STOP.

Thanks for asking us, though.

I could say the same and take away the mages stun, like i said Every class is good at something, its a matter of a really good specs and strategies.
I found that SOMETIMES MAGES are harder to kill than rogues bec of the amount of stuns they do.

[Ruejade]

I totally disagree about knowing your enemies' position through the mini map. This completely prevents sneak attacks using camera advantages and also prevents strategic flag sneaking. What's the point of CTF when you know the positions of the opponents flag bearers? Also, a team with better team work will group up faster and hunt down weaker groups on the map. And this will carry on to the unending spawn kill farming with one team of 5 against another team which is scattered across 2 spawn rooms. This also makes spawn killing so much more easier since you know where your opponent spawn.

Usually when my team is at a disadvantage such as in a 5v2 match, I'll play hide and seek while picking off lone rangers. This opponents appearing on mini maps issue will also ruin 5v2 or 5v3 matches since the larger group will just gang up on the smaller group and the weaker team would have no chance to hide and gank.

[Energizeric]

Hi Sam, IMO the overall the issues that have to be balanced are these:

1) Rogues dominate the leaderboards in CTF Kills, Warriors are a far second, and the only Sorcerers there are those that farm kills. This needs to be more balanced between classes.

2) Warriors dominate the leaderboards for Flags. They have such an awsome heal skill (better than sorcerers even) and they are able to basically jump over walls and leap so far that nobody can possibly catch them or take them down once they have the flag.



Here are some possible ideas I have for balancing these issues:

1) The amount of bonus damage given for critical hits can be nerfed a bit. The high critical damage gives rogues a big advantage since they are the only ones who have decent crit stats. This allows them to "one-hit" sorcerers almost at will and kill warriors in 2-3 hits. I believe this is the main reason they rule the kills leaderboards.

2) INT stat points could be made to add to Crit stats, perhaps not as much as DEX points do -- maybe an adjustment similar to how INT & DEX points were changed to add to health points with an update in December. This would allow sorcerers to have a decent chance at a critical hit. Even if it were only 1 in every 8-10 hits, it could cause enough of a change where maybe 1 in 10 deaths for your average sorcerer would now be a kill as they would win that fight.

3) Warriors heal skill could be nerfed a bit. IMO Sorcerers should have the best heal skill, not Warriors. Warriors already have the highest health and best armor. Also giving them the best heal skill causes them to be too hard to kill.

4) Warriors & Rogues both have a skill that allows them to speed up/leap ahead when carrying the flag. However, Sorcerers one skill that allows this in PvE (Gale Force) has been nerfed for PvP. I think this skill should be restored to work in PvP as it does in PvE.

5) Perhaps Sorcerers Time & Frost skills should both have a little bit better chance at stunning/slowing enemies. Right now Time does not ever stun the enemy, it only slows them a little bit, and Frost almost never results in even slowing the enemy. If Sorcerers had a little bit better stun ability than the other classes do, then maybe this itself would allow them to compete in both kills and flags, i.e. it wouldn't matter if I can run fast while carrying the flag if I am able to effectively slow the enemies who are chasing me.



I know it seems like all my suggestions are attempts to improve sorcerers, so it seems a bit selfish, but take a look at the leaderboards.... Sorcerers are dead last in both kills and flags, so obviously they are the ones that need the most improvement. Or alternatively you could leave them the same and just nerf the Warrior's heal skill and nerf the Rogue's critical hit damage. Either way the word "balance" means that ideally you should have equal numbers of warriors, rogues and sorcerers on both the CTF kills and flags leaderboards.

[Energizeric]

SURVIVABILITY - One or two skills shouldn't be -vital- for PvP survival. One class shouldn't have a higher survival rate than the other either.

This!

Choice of skills should be based on personal preference, not because one skill is "better" for PvP. All skills should be equally effective. If one skill is better than another, then maybe that skill needs to be nerfed, or the lesser skill needs to be boosted. But we should reach a point of balance where no specific skills are necessary to be competitive.

[Haowesie]

Warrior and Rogue has the ability to leap -- this has been compared to some as the speed addition in gale force. I would like to point out some observations:
- I have not seen a warrior or rogue to be stopped mid way of executing a skyward or a pierce, whereas a sorcerer can be stunned while the speed of gale force is in effect.
- the distance, as well as the time to cover the distance by skyward or pierce is definitely not equal to speed addition to gale force.
- Speed is an upgrade to Gale Force, it is not a skill in itself. Both skyward and pierce by its own nature has this ability on top of the damage it gives, without using a skill point for an upgrade (I.e. you only need one skill point for warriors and rouges, but need two skill points for sorcerers).

I would also like for devs to take perspective on both sides where people are requesting a nerf, since it may give other classes an advantage -- I'm sure you guys do, but would like to state it anyways
- a nerf on the 2 sec invulnerability versus 1 hit kills from rogues (or sometimes 2 hits from dex warriors).
- nerf on stuns versus damage output of classes (as well as amount of health) that has less stun ability.

[Genuinous]

As mentioned before, lower level ranges. Level 21's beating up lvl 16's is just a tad off balance...

1 hit kills should be managed. I know rogues should have a high dmg output, yet 1 shot kill is just ridiculous. Also some warriors are able to crit high and constantly to 1 windmill down mages as well. I would rather see a mage with slightly better survival without shield and possibly a weaker shield to compensate for it. Being 1 shotted is not cool...

[Heiki]

I'm going to caps my main comments so the TL;DR people can get the jist of it easily. (also Sam if you're short on time).

- The only REALLY fun PvP battles I have are duels with other wars. The fights actually last long enough to have fun. My point is, UP THE HP CONTRIBUTION of each stat. War get +20 for 1 strength and dex/int gets +12 or something.

- Keep damage as it is. INTRODUCE MORE DEBUFF skills that stack so that combat does not drag on for TOO long.

- you can nerf invul. from HoR, it dosn't work anyway so it's not a big loss.

- BRING THE STUNNING DOWN a bit, maybe with diminishing returns and immunity after a while. Warriors are meant to go into melee so we always get targetted first. In group fight though I dont do jack, I just sit there being stunned until I die while rogues and mages mow me down from afar.

- MAKE BUFFS SCALE based on stats (mage shield should last longer, str boost from Vengeful should scale too) otherwise you have low lvl mages being ridiculously OP and UP at lvl cap.

- a LOT of people whine about HoR when they don't really realize it's not that powerful as you actually have to wait for 3 seconds to get the heal value a mage gets instantly. It's hardly OP and most of the whine comes because people cannot time their stun to counter this. Give us VISIBLE HEALTHBARS and pvp will be more about timing and startegy than button mashing and hope for the best.

[Dragonrider023]

Please get ahold of rogues

[asifaiab]

gear that makes class stats more fair
skills that make classes more equal

[Haowesie]

I'm not sure if this can be classified as 'balance', but:
- I've experienced both warrior and rogue can hit through walls (around corners)
- Also, I've read sometime in the past that since PVP/CTF doesn't require high graphics that camera rotation could be a possibility. I don't mind so much that we don't see opponents on mini maps -- but there are a few blind spots where you can be hit and you don't even see your opponent. Having camera rotation would be awesome

[Jcyee]

Basically most of the things others are saying:

Rogues and macros are the main ones that I can think of right now.

[spiderpig]

i bet sts wont apply any of these suggestion.i havent seen sts acknowleging/applying any suggestions from forumers so far.all i see them do is look for a post with drama on it and close them or post something like read TOS etc etc..

[thekdub]

I have meet mages that cat solo rogues, mages that can solo warriors

There are mages that can solo warriors? Maybe a level 21 mage against a level 18 warrior. If the warrior is using the right skills (which 90% of them do) and have top gear, a mage cannot come close to competing. A good warrior beats a good mage 10 out of 10 times.

[spiderpig]

There are mages that can solo warriors? Maybe a level 21 mage against a level 18 warrior. If the warrior is using the right skills (which 90% of them do) and have top gear, a mage cannot come close to competing. A good warrior beats a good mage 10 out of 10 times.

wow

[Energizeric]

There are mages that can solo warriors? Maybe a level 21 mage against a level 18 warrior. If the warrior is using the right skills (which 90% of them do) and have top gear, a mage cannot come close to competing. A good warrior beats a good mage 10 out of 10 times.

Agreed. If I manage to beat them it's because of one of the following:

1) It was not 1-on-1, or they got distracted while fighting me and had another player on my team get their attention.

2) They don't have good armor and I kill them in 3-4 hits (probably because they are lower level).

[Origin]

Always said this, hasn't changed - mages need some kind of teleport skill and higher evade.

[Luvaria]

Mages aren't as bad as a lot of you seem to think, they're just the class that requires a little more skill. With the right build and strategy, it's possible to get as many kills as a rogue. Regarding the stuns, that's basically the whole point of the mage class at this point, because:

Tanks: Take damage, heal, capture flag
Rogues: Do damage, capture flag
Mages: Stay back and stun a lot (always have charged fire)
(Tip for rogues- circling around the enemy to strike from behind seems to work quite well, if you can get your team to cooperate.)

For mages, since we aren't much use anymore to heal, you're best off with shield, to reduce the damage, especially with invulnerability, since I've found that when you hang back, the tanks are more likely to aim for you (keep stunning them).

[Luvaria]

The only reason why most rogues got most kills in pvp is its because some or most of it are stolen kills just cuz they're faster.

I personally think that they should set up "kills" based on the damage u did, not on who Hit them last.

Rogues are the class that were made to do damage, so chances are that would only make the situation worse.
For example, if you were to do 50% or more damage to someone (ignore regen/heal/health packs) and then left (who knows why), and someone else killed the enemy, they wouldn't get the kill, and I would say that's unfair as well.