Warriors mana opinions.

[Syylent]

replies in bold

Not sure how many MMO's you have played but there are quite a few that there is endless mana... The bard class from DAoC (Twisting was an art form in the beginning) the Paladin Class.. The healer line had a mana regen buff that was set it and forget it. Many MMOs have a endurance line for physical attacks and a mana line for magic attacks and buffing abilities.

I could go before that to Asheron's Call. Stam to mana health to mana.

How many MMOs do you want to go through and the time period in playing each? I can go back to the local BBS if ya want that I played over a 2400 baud modem.. =)

Anyway I digress. The whole issue is it is not neverending. I ran out many times last night. Do I run out more than with my Rogue.. No of course not. Then again you dismissed my cool down timers, but whatever. Mana management. Not just facerolling AS, NB, SP.. repeat which you can do what 2 to 3 times in the span of what one warrior WM?

As far being on point. You point #3 in your OP states that "It could be argued that the warrior has minimal damage therefore it would need a lot of mana to kill a rogue/mage. This is a valid argument but to what extent?" I believe that looking at the AS line is very on point about mana usage.

[Rollo]

2400 baud modem.. .

Oh god lol, I honestly don't know how people did anything at all with those, let alone online gaming xD

[Destructible]

My opinion in response to your opinion-ny thread. (:

Warriors VB is good as it is. For me VB lasts for only a battle or less. Usually it runs out before the Rogue is dead, especially heal-packed ones. After that its pretty much up to Shiloh(or Mali. Both are my main ones) to keep me alive. Juggernaut's 'Below-25%-auto-heal" does little for me, especially when a good Rogue can crit me for more than 1500 damage. *Youch*
I do feel that in all respects, lower level PvP is still a pinch unbalanced, with Warriors dominating. However, my twink level (21) is quite balanced for me. Without Shiloh, any 1-1 with a Rogue leaves me biting dust.

Moving on, however, to what i feel is the main aim of STS - team-play. Every class has its own use in team fights, as everyone all too well know. If VB were to be nerfed, Warriors won't be able to push out a second HoR, or even a Juggernaut for that extra thrill of surviving 3 seconds longer than your teamates. This makes us somewhat of a skill-reliant class, which is quite displeasing. With skill reliance naturally comes the need for mana consumption, which leads back to the main object of this thread.

Ending my post, i think that Warriors' VB is quite so-so, not needing many tweaks. However, a better alternative for me would be to slightly increase the Warrior's skill mana cost. A slight adjustment would be sufficient.

it does however twinks aren't always being burnt down. The Older generation (pre forg era) would understand

This is completely true. Forgs have completely destroyed the entirety of twinking.

[Syylent]

Oh god lol, I honestly don't know how people did anything at all with those, let alone online gaming xD

It sure beat my 1200. ha!

[GoodSyntax]

The replies shocked you? I'll scratch my head on that one.

Personally I would like armor to actually work against aimed shot. Make the warriors armor a little tougher and test it.

I don't believe it is fair one class can take 1/3 of a classes health in one shot. I won't even bring in the one shot capability they have with a sorc (sans shield).

Have you really looked at the AS line and thought "why that upgrade is weak"? It is a purely powerful, envious, line.

The armor on Warriors definitely works - at least at end-game. When I come across a top geared warrior, it takes my Rogue's entire mana pool (of 1900 I might add), meaning a dozen different skills and then I run out of mana, the warrior turns around, and one or two hits me.

Then again, there have been warriors that I can take down in just two full skill rotations, so armor clearly has a big impact.

Actually, my biggest gripe on VB is the Area of Effect. I would really like the AoE to be larger than it currently is because, unless my Rogue is in the middle of the fight, I don't get the buff. If I am staying at range and firing off AS and Nox, then I never get the VB effect, which forces me to join the fray. Unfortunately, when I'm in the middle of the fight, I don't get the Dodge buff from Malison, so it becomes the lesser of two bad options.

Perhaps a better option would be for VB to provide an immediate Mana boost, but then have two durations, one for mana, another for HP. The mana one would be on a shorter clock, while the hp one would have a longer timer. This would keep the HP high so tanking is still an option, and between VB + Skyward, there are two ways to minimize mana consumption.

[GoodSyntax]

It sure beat my 1200. ha!

1200 baud, when I was a kid we used smoke signals :-)

[Oraceanid]

VB is the warriors only way of keeping mana, if we didnt have it, we would run out fast. mine has 660 mana and within the use of AT and WB im down to 70ish% already, its hard to maintain mana and we only regen it fast if we are constantly beat on. when fighting rogues, we keep it high because of those aimed shots that take out 40% of our life and the other attacks that take out much of our life... sure we have plenty of life, but we need it or we will die due to the damage reduction... you see how long it takes to kill a rogue, 2k is ave. health of a rogue, and it takes a lot of time just to take that out with all our attacks, plus if they throw down their packs and run around us picking up, itll take even longer. the way to balance pvp is to nerf rogues attacks, because if a rogue can crit 1.8k easily with 1 aimed, that just isnt fair... thats about 48% of my life in one move, a rogue can do 1.8k in one move, it takes me about 10secs of contant attacks to do that. Rogues nerfed damage, mages upped damage, warriors upped damage. simple as that...

Yep. Two shots and you are dead.

[Bless]

VB is the warriors only way of keeping mana, if we didnt have it, we would run out fast. mine has 660 mana and within the use of AT and WB im down to 70ish% already, its hard to maintain mana and we only regen it fast if we are constantly beat on. when fighting rogues, we keep it high because of those aimed shots that take out 40% of our life and the other attacks that take out much of our life... sure we have plenty of life, but we need it or we will die due to the damage reduction... you see how long it takes to kill a rogue, 2k is ave. health of a rogue, and it takes a lot of time just to take that out with all our attacks, plus if they throw down their packs and run around us picking up, itll take even longer. the way to balance pvp is to nerf rogues attacks, because if a rogue can crit 1.8k easily with 1 aimed, that just isnt fair... thats about 48% of my life in one move, a rogue can do 1.8k in one move, it takes me about 10secs of contant attacks to do that. Rogues nerfed damage, mages upped damage, warriors upped damage. simple as that...

Yep. Two shots and you are dead.

thats y i said it should restore 250mp and then do regen

[Itoopeo]

This is one reason why i dont play AL anymore. PvP is crap, no targeting system, cant rotate camera, insta deaths, warriors does too low damage, and rogues one shot kill everything, everything is expensive, leveling is boring, ping makes game animations look crap, sometimes skill just disappears, but you lose the mana cost and skill cooldown is long, only FOUR skills, sometimes in PvP warriors can use their swords as snipers and kill you from 1000meters away, cant ROTATE CAMERA!!

[Syylent]

1200 baud, when I was a kid we used smoke signals :-)

walk a mile barefoot to school in the snow?

[Syylent]

The armor on Warriors definitely works - at least at end-game. When I come across a top geared warrior, it takes my Rogue's entire mana pool (of 1900 I might add), meaning a dozen different skills and then I run out of mana, the warrior turns around, and one or two hits me.

Then again, there have been warriors that I can take down in just two full skill rotations, so armor clearly has a big impact.

Actually, my biggest gripe on VB is the Area of Effect. I would really like the AoE to be larger than it currently is because, unless my Rogue is in the middle of the fight, I don't get the buff. If I am staying at range and firing off AS and Nox, then I never get the VB effect, which forces me to join the fray. Unfortunately, when I'm in the middle of the fight, I don't get the Dodge buff from Malison, so it becomes the lesser of two bad options.

Perhaps a better option would be for VB to provide an immediate Mana boost, but then have two durations, one for mana, another for HP. The mana one would be on a shorter clock, while the hp one would have a longer timer. This would keep the HP high so tanking is still an option, and between VB + Skyward, there are two ways to minimize mana consumption.

Granted I am only 21 warrior but I do have a 25 rogue. 26k to 26 ain't happening. Often I run out of mana even with VB (max 5 points). Most rogues throw down 2 to 3 sets of packs while we fight. Some how they seem to have quite a pit of mana. Maybe it is mana management? (my terminology) Which is a good thing. I don't think anyone should have a huge supply of mana. An infinite supply of mana would just allow people to face roll their keyboard.

The highest I have been hit at 21 in pvp is 1030 by 21 level rogue (equally geared). I won't count 22's and 23s since they can take away half my health. I think that is a different subject of conversation. People disagree with me, but I think levels make a huge difference in PvP. Especially against equally geared opponents.

Skyward would not minimize mana consumption because of its cool down period. People would mash it. When I specd SS and CS both I think 3 second cooldowns I was always out of mana like my rouge. With old VB I never was. With new vb, it wasn;t as bad as my rogue but still ran out. AT and WM with their high cool downs minimize that greatly because I only mash attack and pray alot.

Yes.. I have noticed that the effect seems lower in pvp than pve. I figured it was by design. Typically I charge HoR rush into the middle and out to the rogues in the back with VB going and spinning. I just hope the rogues and mages in the back kill before I die. Depending on levels.... it works.

BTW think I have faced you a few times. Fun fights if I remember correctly.

[Rollo]

walk a mile barefoot to school in the snow?

Up hill both ways!

[GoodSyntax]

BTW think I have faced you a few times. Fun fights if I remember correctly.

Always fun fights my friend :-)

Rogues, unlike the other classes, can ratchet up their Crit percentage substantially. If all goes well, and I have a few shots to ramp up, I can keep my crit at or near 100% with Ribbit (118% is my max), but mana is a serious issue, so I am heavily reliant on VB, which is why I am usually in the middle of the scrum. LifeGiver is a decent secondary option when a suitably equipped Warrior isn't around. Once I'm out of mana, I might as well just hope for a quick death so I can get back into the mix again.

Good point on the SS cooldown. I forget that Warrior cooldowns are quite a bit longer than Rogues.

Either way, good timing between VB and HoR should be able to keep you well buffed...especially in PvP. Personally, I still think that the combination of HoR, VB, Windmill and Axe Throw are a formidable build. Because the range of AT is so large, I can't just snipe you from a distance. Then, when I decide to duke it out, I'm either hitting a shield, or trying to punch through VBs HP and Mana restoration with a lucky crit. Some times, I try to wait out the VB effect, but AT just reels me back in.

At the end of the day, Warriors are starting to feel the pinch of mana consumption the same way that Rogues always have. Unlike Rogues though, Warriors have many stuns, high armor/hp and shielding that allows them to just tank their way over to a mana pot.

I'm with you though, no class should have an endless supply of mana. Mana-management (as you say) is just as much of a tactical skill as anything else. There are ways of restoring mana, but they come with some risks. There are also ways to conserve mana, but again, it comes with a price - so either you go nuts spamming skills, but put yourself at risk by looking to absorb damage via the VB effect, or you hang back and not spam skills as often, which may anger your team mates. The third option is simply to be aware of where the mana pots are and disengage when you are running on empty.

[GoodSyntax]

Up hill both ways!

I had to tunnel my way through the snow, one mile to school....uphill both ways, with no gloves or shovel.

And...when I was your age, I was lv27

[Syylent]

I had to tunnel my way through the snow, one mile to school....uphill both ways, with no gloves or shovel.

And...when I was your age, I was lv27

You win!

My grandfather would tell me that too. ha!

[really]

Drop the warrior mana, the rogue health pack pooping, and the sorc shield.