Devs, The game will be dying

[Futumsh]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

[TwinkTastical]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

-Loves inital wording-

Im pretty sure dev has a big *** point...

[Furrawn]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...
But, fine if this is how you respond... I quit.

I know now will be the sarcastic response from JustG saying "Can I have your stuff?"
Answer "No."
I'll be on tonight & will give my belongings to my friends.

[Mala]

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...

I agree 100% with you. Very unproffesional and discourteous.

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Last time I checked it was a lvl 45-50 campaign. Not a lets play half the campaign until im lvl 50 and can play it without elixers campaign. It supposed to be difficult enough to allow lvl 45-50 players play. Not only level 50 ones.

[Futumsh]

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...
But, fine if this is how you respond... I quit.

I know now will be the sarcastic response from JustG saying "Can I have your stuff?"
Answer "No."
I'll be on tonight & will give my belongings to my friends.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

[Furrawn]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

First of all, I'd say thanks for the apology but "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not an apology.

Secondly, you are implying that I "just run in and kill" which has never been my style of gameplay. You assume an awful lot of negative things about my gameplay. Thanks for the insult.

Third, I expect bosses to be hard but I don't expect to have to use an elixir and have my whole team die around me when we are all level 46. I bought a campaign for 45-50. It's wrong for you to insist that good players just stay in the boring part hacking away.

Fourth, I only buy an elixir for fighting the Galactic Overlord on lvl 5. I simply think it should be POSSIBLE for a typical team including non-strength mages and birds to beat him without having to use an elixir.

Fifth, most of the gold sink comes from having to use health pots to stay alive because team players who aren't tanks die far too easily because there's an imbalance somewhere...

I gave honest feedback because I care about the game. What I get in return is you attacking my gameplay... Assuming bad things about me that you have zero right to assume... What person would still play PL if they were me and had you say what you've said to me?

I've played plenty with some forum folk here. I'm sure someone can vouch that I'm not a mindless player...

You could should have listened and responded thoughtfully... Understanding that I probably represent a large game demographic that isn't often vocal on the forums.

I didn't ask for a nerf. I hate nerfing. I shouldn't have to just play in the low levels because I don't have a million or more in gold. It's wrong.

Snake- yes, I can fight my own battles...
But to be honest, I feel pretty beaten up about now...

[Arterra]

First of all, I'd say thanks for the apology but "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not an apology.

Secondly, you are implying that I "just run in and kill" which has never been my style of gameplay. You assume an awful lot of negative things about my gameplay. Thanks for the insult.

Third, I expect bosses to be hard but I don't expect to have to use an elixir and have my whole team die around me when we are all level 46. I bought a campaign for 45-50. It's wrong for you to insist that good players just stay in the boring part hacking away.

Fourth, I only buy an elixir for fighting the Galactic Overlord on lvl 5. I simply think it should be POSSIBLE for a typical team including non-strength mages and birds to beat him without having to use an elixir.

Fifth, most of the gold sink comes from having to use health pots to stay alive because team players who aren't tanks die far too easily because there's an imbalance somewhere...

I gave honest feedback because I care about the game. What I get in return is you attacking my gameplay... Assuming bad things about me that you have zero right to assume... What person would still play PL if they were me and had you say what you've said to me?

I've played plenty with some forum folk here. I'm sure someone can vouch that I'm not a mindless player...

You could should have listened and responded thoughtfully... Understanding that I probably represent a large game demographic that isn't often vocal on the forums.

I didn't ask for a nerf. I hate nerfing. I shouldn't have to just play in the low levels because I don't have a million or more in gold. It's wrong.

Snake- yes, I can fight my own battles...
But to be honest, I feel pretty beaten up about now...

Furrawn... everyone... you have all fallen for the internet trap. since you were frazzled by some bad ao3 experience you see others responses to everything as negative when it might not be so. also you are inserting these feeling into your response back and so further making a problem.
Everyone, a good strategy for online discussion is to play sorta happy-go-lucky, and imagine all others are too. that said, </vent>

anyway... on to real issue, ao3...

ao3 is now the beginning of the strategy side of mmo. I have to admit i had fallen into that "hacknslash" mentality, but this will fix it quick. The real problem here is this is the very first (noticable) attempt at strategy we can see in PL. you have to forgive some bugs in the system, and take in faith it will be worked out as devs see how if ao3 is ever going to work as a beta they have to TEACH us how to strategize. I am one of those semi-maybe-casual players (wannabe/future hardcores lol) and wouldn't mind if they gave us more hints on these things or softened it up for us.

I have noticed that the players who LOVE AO3 are those players who dont mind chugging elixers and pots left and right. Players who are also rich in the game.

i LOVE ao3... and all i have to my name is 150k.. the most ive ever had... im too cheap lol

[FluffNStuff]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

Futumsh, I think some of the ~disconnect~ between how the Dev's expected the user's to be experiencing the game and how the user's are now experiencing the game may be due to the Dev's testing on a private local server. You are very correct that AO3 is not very forgiving of error, but that error is not always the player. AO3 is COMPLETELY UNFORGIVING of LAG. I am playing on an iPad using 25 Mb/s (~3 MB/s) connection, and I still get lag spikes in AO3. I almost threw my iPad when one of the spikes lasted exactly as long as the OverLords shields were down. The game play is very smooth, but when these spikes occur, it means almost certain death. I can not imagine the frustration of users over 3G.

As for the source of the lag, could the increase in invites be to cause? If so, can we have a do not disturb so the invites never get sent jamming up our bandwidth when in a fight?

[Arterra]

As for the source of the lag, could the increase in invites be to cause? If so, can we have a do not disturb so the invites never get sent jamming up our bandwidth when in a fight?

I have previously suggested a GHOST/HIDDEN/NON-INVITE MODE. NOW is the time for it.

[Royce]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Seriously? Because I've found a few level 47 and 48 pinks in the lower levels, and they are only marginally (quite insignificantly really) better than my level 45 gear. Is that gear going to make a difference, like with that extra 2 armor, mages will be able to keep on their feet against bosses? It sounds unlikely. I like the difficulty. I like that the game requires skill. I don't think the frequency of 1-shot kills and then repeated rez spawn kills is a good thing. However, I'm just now finally getting a chance to really get into AO3, so we'll see. I don't want any big nerf, but there seems to be something wrong with a campaign when no one but tanks can make it through without armor pots.

[Snakespeare]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Quite so. That is what I have been doing. I know map 1 is comparatively boring, but there are Lesser D'Jinn who drop pinks, and two bosses who don't require elixirs.

But Futumsh, you've gotta listen when I tell you, the gear in there is mostly crap. What use do we have for level 44 gear? There's been some kind of mistake. This is a level 45 map. And so many of the pinks that drop are level 46 or 47, or 48. Their stats are different by, like, 1 or 2 points of damage. It's not "gearing up". It's just stuff to liquidate. Also, the threat level in Secret Pyramid is yellow for level 45 through level 47. That's about 70 mobsters who give .5 less XP per kill. That's got to be a mistake, too.

So, yes, this is my plan of attack. And I do appreciate that we can't power-level in map 1. The armor is too high for fast kills. I have been considering the respawning shadows in map 2 for that.

Thank you for referring to something being "above your level". Now can we mention things that are "below your level"? Because the idea that character levels and map levels are supposed to coincide has been ignored no matter how many times I point it out. Especially to people "farming" with characters who are 20 levels too high for a map who bully those who are in the right level. So, let's keep that concept in mind. If there is such a thing as "above your level", there is also such a thing as "below your level".

In short, I have mostly stuck to map one through level 46, and now that I reached level 47, I will be mostly playing in map 2.

And with deep respect for my friends who see things differently, I can only say, I hope you will try it this way.

Fut, you probably shouldn't say the word "complain". It sounds too much like a dismissal.

[Chickdigcookies]

Quite so. That is what I have been doing. I know map 1 is comparatively boring, but there are Lesser D'Jinn who drop pinks, and two bosses who don't require elixirs.

But Futumsh, you've gotta listen when I tell you, the gear in there is mostly crap. What use do we have for level 44 gear? There's been some kind of mistake. This is a level 45 map. And so many of the pinks that drop are level 46 or 47, or 48. Their stats are different by, like, 1 or 2 points of damage. It's not "gearing up". It's just stuff to liquidate. Also, the threat level in Secret Pyramid is yellow for level 45 through level 47. That's about 70 mobsters who give .5 less XP per kill. That's got to be a mistake, too.

So, yes, this is my plan of attack. And I do appreciate that we can't power-level in map 1. The armor is too high for fast kills. I have been considering the respawning shadows in map 2 for that.

Thank you for referring to something being "above your level". Now can we mention things that are "below your level"? Because the idea that character levels and map levels are supposed to coincide has been ignored no matter how many times I point it out. Especially to people "farming" with characters who are 20 levels too high for a map who bully those who are in the right level. So, let's keep that concept in mind. If there is such a thing as "above your level", there is also such a thing as "below your level".

In short, I have mostly stuck to map one through level 46, and now that I reached level 47, I will be mostly playing in map 2.

And with deep respect for my friends who see things differently, I can only say, I hope you will try it this way.

Fut, you probably shouldn't say the word "complain". It sounds too much like a dismissal.

YOUVED OPEN MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still, robodude is pretty hard...

[Tavore]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

[Aspergillus]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

I don't know if there is any other way to take it... You are right... it is not smart to alienate your community for pointing out flaws in the game. no one wants to play the AO1 remake level until they get to an "appropriate" level.

Devs - there are other games coming out. Some using new engines like Unreal Engine 3 (see Epic Citadel). The only way that PL can survive is to have a dedicated community of players. By recycling maps, making play restrictive, making the good loot unattainable for most players, charging extra for less and telling community members that they aren't playing right if they point out the problems, you will destroy the loyalty that is needed for the game to succeed.

New content - original, not recycled and re-colored - and treating the members with respect are necessary for the future of PL, as is fixing the problems that players point out. If people feel that they have been cheated or that the game is unplayable, they won't play, let alone spend money on new level packs.

[CanonicalKoi]

That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

This. Considering that the #1 rule of the forum is, "Be Respectful" and the #1 rule of the game is, "Be Nice", Fu's comment seemed more than a little ironic to me. Sarcasm with a side of irony, if you will. A reply of, "Players wanted a challenge and we envisioned the final levels as being played by level 50's with appropriate equipment and still not having an easy time of it. We probably could have done a better job of communicating that to everyone. Sorry for the miscommunication." might've been a bit better.

[gizerbeam]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Regarding Futumsh's comment, I would say this is true. We complain because A02 was too easy, then we complain because A03 is too hard. We had 3 months or w/e amount of time to accumulate gold. Fighting a boss should be a reward. If performed properly, any boss can be defeated. Your forced to work together, to communicate and to become strategic. Something that we haven't had in the past. Thus some individuals have been over-reacting.

There is always a way around it. Keep it up Dev's. My only suggestion would be to perhaps increase the gold input for minons/boss' in A03. That would perhaps make elixirs much more affordable for the casual player.

[Thyrant]

I have not so much Time to play every Day many Hours.
i Have one Tank Warrior on Lv 46, leveld up on the normal way. 3 Weeks playing, a few hours a day.
Yesterday i played Ao3, crazy.

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

When i hearded that Peoples spend 200k and more Gold to play Ao3, iam wired.
i dindt have so much MOney, i think, i never will.

Most of my Pinks, i spend it for new Players. i thought its the right way.

Now i have to farm, and Sell Items, against my nature.
Just to beat AO3.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

[Arjun]

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

Don't Stress Bro - Same thing on my side. Never thought would gather sooo much gold. Just keep u'r eye's open in town is all. Pay attention to wht people are buying - B> So and So and So and So of Thoth. If you happen to have it. Start Negotiating.

Seriously. I happens to score an Alien Blaster Back in AO2. . .a lvl 43 one. Was just going to my stash in town and started speaking to someone looking for an Alien Blaster. 300k. right there. I was like - OOookaaay.

Same with Zuraz Shock Lance. . . was just running the lvl with a team not farming as such. . .killing D'jinns et al. . got to boss. . one shock lance - zuraz. Two day's later - another. Sooo was not going to sell . . or even try so hard to sell. . .as you said. . hardly have time to play so much. Can't bother standing around to sell stuff. . . .walking through town saw someone asking anybody for shock lance of zuraz. . so to show off I said I had one. . .he said lemme see in trade. Puts 700k gold. I didnt even ask for it. Again. Said. . .Oookay. Tick.

Soo just keep going with the flow I say. And Stop. . . Look . .. and Listen. Every now and then.

[Galois]

This has been a really good read. I don't post much at all (I'm more of a reader) but I wanted to echo some of the thoughts raised.

I am personally loving AO3, although I will admit it is a large step up in difficulty from most of the previous content. I've only been completely through it twice with my pally and have only hit the first area with my bird, as I've been replaying the early levels a lot.

I dont believe that the problem is the difficulty itself, but rather, as other players have mentioned, that there isn't an organized way to play. I personally believe that guilds will do wonders for the game, as like minded players will be able to organize and tackle the game based on their play styles. The trouble I have run into is that when the party wipes a few times, or even once, players give up and leave. Another player (I apologize for not specifically calling out names-I'm posting from my iPhone so going back in the thread is difficult) mentioned that he had the same issues: the party breaks, reforms and is less organized with each iteration.

Another issue is the divide in the player base. With just about any MMO, especially those that are easily accessible, the player base divides into a "casual" group and a "hardcore" group. From that point, it becomes incredibly difficult for the developers to make everyone happy. If they cater more toward the group that doesn't sink hours each day into the game, they lose the interest of the more frequent players. One needs to look no further than the wait between AO2 and AO3: how many posts were there of people being fed up with low level quests taking but a day for level capped players to exhaust, begging for more high level content?

The tricky part is that the "hardcore" group tends to be smaller than the "casual" group, so many times the former group gets left out. One thing that might help would be to have two versions of new content: a more accessible version in which players can still reach level cap, and a harder version in which the enemies are stronger but drop much better loot. That way, both camps can feel happy with their purchases.

[Azrael]

I have not so much Time to play every Day many Hours.
i Have one Tank Warrior on Lv 46, leveld up on the normal way. 3 Weeks playing, a few hours a day.
Yesterday i played Ao3, crazy.

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

When i hearded that Peoples spend 200k and more Gold to play Ao3, iam wired.
i dindt have so much MOney, i think, i never will.

Most of my Pinks, i spend it for new Players. i thought its the right way.

Now i have to farm, and Sell Items, against my nature.
Just to beat AO3.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

You can add me in game "Ogrim" and play in my games. We finish maps quickly.