Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Virtual Economics for Dummies

  1. #1
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Thumbs up Virtual Economics for Dummies

    First off, I’d like to introduce myself. I’m Joey, a current 1st year econ major at UVa (UVa students, or anyone for that matter, add me ign: Pyromagnium) and in my (limited) free time I like to play soccer and MMOs. I stumbled across Arcane Legends about a month ago and was fascinated at the disruptive innovation Spacetime Studios has developed. They’re the pioneers of the pocket mmo. I absolutely love the fact that I can play on my tablet and laptop

    Anyway, what’s this post all about? Well there’s one thing that has always intrigued me -- virtual economies. The first thing I noticed was that all classes in AL are dependent on potions. I also noticed many players disagreed with this overall dependency on purchasing these potions. The point is, why must we use so many potions?
    An important aspect of developing an MMO is the development of the market structure. How are players going to acquire, trade, and sell items they loot to get the items they want? It seems to me STS has decided the market structure to be auction house based. I support this market structure although there are some quirks to it, which I may get to in a future post.

    But we can’t buy or sell potions on the open market, Pyro?

    You are correct, which leads me to my first point: money in, money out. MIMO, as it is abbreviated, is simply the concept of a videogame producing and consuming the in-game currency. Players regularly get lots of little bits of money from performing dailies, looting monsters and selling vendor trash. This slowly increases their gold stash without really putting any specific focused effort into getting money. This pocket money can have a strong influence on the decision to purchase items as well as the inflationary effects on the overall economy. Money in.

    Developers often use MIMO as a part of their content gating system. In the case of Arcane Legends, your excess profits usually fund your mystery chests, auction house commissions, pets purchasable with gold (The pets you didn't start the game with), and potion usage. Money out.

    A big challenge to balancing a virtual economy in an MMORPG is balancing the MIMO to prevent the accumulation of excess currency, due to the "faucet and drain" problem. Players tend to continually gather money they didn't work for while playing an MMORPG. As long as that money keeps dripping into their pocket faster than it leaks out from incidental expenses (e.g. potions), they'll face lower opportunity costs when making purchasing decisions from other players. Many players mistakenly think that the mere presence of money in a market leads to pocket-change-caused inflation. However, it isn't actually the amount of money itself that leads to this kind of inflation, but a problem in the MIMO balance.

    But Pyro, the currency in Arcane Legends does in fact have worth despite this inflation, right?

    Right again, my inquisitive reader. What gives our gold its worth? Why, it’s the in-game NPCs that purchase and sell items in exchange for our gold of course. If 25 Mana potions cost 380 gold then 380 gold will always be worth 25 Mana potions. This will remain true no matter the in-game market conditions. Another point; the value of gold is the same as the value of any other item: it's derived from the opportunity cost in time to acquire it. Say you want a weapon that costs 50,000 gold. You can determine its value by comparing the time it would cost you to accumulate 50,000 gold versus the time it would take you to acquire the weapon.

    In other words, gold in a game isn't actually currency at all; at least, not a fiat currency in the sense of the money we use in real life. A fiat currency is something that has no intrinsic worth; you can only trade it to other people who are willing to accept it.

    Back on topic; the potion issue is somewhat mandatory as a hedge against in-game inflation. Actually, I'd argue there aren't enough content gates to pour our excess money out. The following list suggests a few solutions:
    1. Birgit should accept gold for her style changing service.
    2. There should be more pets purchasable with gold at a reasonable price
    3. Perhaps temporary boosts purchasable with gold for CTF?
    4. Skill potions in general. (Not homogeneous with elixirs, ex; Potion that gives %10 mana for 20 minutes)
    5. Crafting skills <--- with NPCs that sell equipment used to gather the resources as well as to craft the equipment in any given profession.
    6. Guild banks, guild banners, guild goodies, ect.


    Pyro, if you're suggesting to socialize the game even further, my decision to friend you has been annuled.

    Woah there, before you make any hasty decisions, hear me out. I agree that the NPC vendor portion of the economy has much more in common with a socialist marketplace. NPC vendor economies are characterized by something that most capitalists scoff at in the real world - price controls. The price of all necessary items in MMOs tends to be fixed at a specific point, partly to drain a controllable amount of gold out of the in-game economy, and partly because it feels more fair to players. Unlike in the real world, where price controls inevitably fail because goods are scarce and black markets emerge, MMO developers can effortlessly keep prices level because the supply remains infinite.

    I may add a TL;DR section later. But I have 5+ hours of homework staring at me in the face. Questions? Comments? Concerns? I'd love to hear them. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Pyromagnium; 04-17-2013 at 10:02 AM.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Pyromagnium For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Member Nikkiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    190
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    31
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Default

    Very Helpful Pyro







    Nikkiii- Level 31 Rogue ( Arcane Legends )

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Default

    lol

  5. #4
    Senior Member Limsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,090
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    832
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,189
    Thanked in
    552 Posts

    Default

    Basically, more gold sink to regulate everything. +1
    duck dynasty falls

  6. #5
    Member Thermite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Default

    Very well-written. I like your suggestions too.

    AL: Thermite (L 31 Warrior) | Thermate (L 41 Sorcerer) | Thermyte (L 18 Rogue)

  7. #6
    Guardian of Alterra FluffNStuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hundred Acre Woods
    Posts
    6,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    699
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    919
    Thanked in
    551 Posts

    Default

    I see you are taking micro economics there at UVa. Perhaps next semester you might consider macroeconomics lol. Nice write up on one aspect of what is going on but you are missing the seedy underbelly. Just like our entire economy is controlled by the prime rate as set by the fed, AL economy is controlled by the exchange rate between plat and gold. Workers farm the items and the capitalists purchase those items using the gold they acquired through plat. The market value of an item is the amount a capitalist is willing to exchange plat for.
    Now a worker can upgrade themselves to a capitalist through smart trades, but they will never get there through hard work alone. The in as you call it is less then minimum wage

    The Hundred Acre Legends:
    HunnySniper - HunnyStorm
    Please Fill out the End Game Pet Survey!|||||| What's With that Shield Icon?

  8. #7
    Member Psyche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    55
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Default

    Yes, buying gold with play kinda throws everything off, especially since the exchange rate is pretty favorable.
    Psyche, the totality of the human mind

  9. #8
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffNStuff View Post
    I see you are taking micro economics there at UVa. Perhaps next semester you might consider macroeconomics lol. Nice write up on one aspect of what is going on but you are missing the seedy underbelly. Just like our entire economy is controlled by the prime rate as set by the fed, AL economy is controlled by the exchange rate between plat and gold. Workers farm the items and the capitalists purchase those items using the gold they acquired through plat. The market value of an item is the amount a capitalist is willing to exchange plat for.
    Now a worker can upgrade themselves to a capitalist through smart trades, but they will never get there through hard work alone. The in as you call it is less then minimum wage
    You're absolutely right Fluff, and the platinum-gold exchange rate and its effect on the market is something I forgot to touch on. Perhaps as I get more acquainted with the game I can further my study and share my findings. Thank you for the insight

  10. #9
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    Yes, buying gold with play kinda throws everything off, especially since the exchange rate is pretty favorable.
    Yeah something I forgot to mention. All the more reason for those additional content gates I suggested. Players able to create money is probably the most detrimental thing to an MMO market, arguably.

  11. #10
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thermite View Post
    Very well-written. I like your suggestions too.
    Added a few

  12. #11
    Senior Member Limsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,090
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    832
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,189
    Thanked in
    552 Posts

    Default

    Can't seem to see the post. :/
    duck dynasty falls

  13. #12
    Banned Mysticaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,977
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    263
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    508
    Thanked in
    315 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsyoker View Post
    Can't seem to see the post. :/
    Same here. o.O

  14. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,472
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    156
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    133
    Thanked in
    97 Posts

    Default

    Same here..

  15. #14
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cremated View Post
    Same here..
    I'm actually not sure what's going on here. I'll try to figure things out.

  16. #15
    Guardian of Alterra FluffNStuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hundred Acre Woods
    Posts
    6,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    699
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    919
    Thanked in
    551 Posts

    Default

    You seem to have deleted the whole post. Hmm.

    The Hundred Acre Legends:
    HunnySniper - HunnyStorm
    Please Fill out the End Game Pet Survey!|||||| What's With that Shield Icon?

  17. #16
    Banned Mysticaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,977
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    263
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    508
    Thanked in
    315 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffNStuff View Post
    You seem to have deleted the whole post. Hmm.
    You can't delete the OP.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure on this one.

  18. #17
    Member Pyromagnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    56
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    29
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffNStuff View Post
    You seem to have deleted the whole post. Hmm.
    In the General Discussion forum, when you move your mouse over the post, the introduction to the post is visible. I recall going in, editing, and submitting.

    I hope it isn't deleted.

  19. #18
    Guardian of Alterra FluffNStuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hundred Acre Woods
    Posts
    6,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    699
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    919
    Thanked in
    551 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysticaleagle View Post
    You can't delete the OP.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure on this one.
    Eerie ... your right!

    Hmm, Dev bombing that missed?

    The Hundred Acre Legends:
    HunnySniper - HunnyStorm
    Please Fill out the End Game Pet Survey!|||||| What's With that Shield Icon?

  20. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    504
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    57
    Thanked in
    45 Posts

    Default

    It was well written and accurate :-)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  21. #20
    Banned Mysticaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,977
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    263
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    508
    Thanked in
    315 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffNStuff View Post
    Eerie ... your right!

    Hmm, Dev bombing that missed?
    Special agent G, made a special operation. Secretly, of course.

    Agent Sam, failed. That's all I know as of now.

Similar Threads

  1. Economics in Arcane?
    By Steverd in forum PL General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-29-2012, 06:15 PM
  2. test dummies?
    By Nick41324 in forum PL Suggestions and Feedback
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-13-2012, 12:18 PM
  3. Twinking for Dummies!
    By noobmigo in forum PL Player vs. Player
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-13-2011, 11:59 AM
  4. Target dummies.
    By Necrobane in forum PL Suggestions and Feedback
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-21-2011, 04:26 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •