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Thread: Decline in quality of PvP

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    Default Decline in quality of PvP

    I know I'm not alone when I say this, but PvP has become a wasteland. I'm not sure if I posting this thread simply to rant or not, but I'm tired of not saying anything, even if the devs refuse to listen. They've said before that AL is their largest game, thus it deserves the most attention, but neglecting your other customers, especially your oldest customers, isn't the way to do that.

    Skills and sets need rebalance. Simple as that. This actually happened in the past at level 45 cap. Bird's skills became so overpowered that they would one shot most things, bears dodge would be boarder line 100%, mages would only need one skill to nuke when buffed. However, it's worse this time around with the larger population of players. PvP has become something anyone with a set can dominate at. Bear vs bear is 100% luck, bird vs bird is whoever hits blast, it gets to the point where someone that's been a great PvPer for years can lose to a random new gen with a Phoenix bow and max blast. Thus, the ego develops in random players, whom at 56 cap wouldn't be able to kill a thing. Overall, the PvP community has gone to the dogs.

    Which leads to the answer: rebalance. I've said this numerous times, but the devs need to tone down on luck based stats. Bears right now can get 94 dodge buffed, which is ludicrous. What it comes down to for each class should be armor, damage, M/s, and H/s. Bears, rather than relying on 94 dodge, should have substantially lower damage, very little dodge, high armor, health pool, and high H/s. Mages should be less damage and crit based, and potentially stronger buffs and heals to increase survivability without making them tanking machines, and lastly, birds should be the balance between health and mana, and focus primarily on DPS (as opposed to 500 blast skill damage). People say fox and rhino are underpowered, but I see it as the other classes being overpowered. They did pretty well with them, giving them advantages and disadvantages to balance out, meanwhile all the other classes need to do is land a skill on their opponent. Fights should last longer than firing off 1-2 skills, which I'm not exaggerating with.

    So, to rebalance, tone down not only the gear, but the buffs and skills especially. Bring str gear back to fort days, high H/s and armor, and let the set bonus deliver some oh-so important health pool. Then take the skills into consideration. Do bears really need 2 dodge buffs, one of which that stacks? Do bears really need crit and damage that's so substantially high, that 2 skills can take out an entire team? Every class is so ridiculously overpowered that balance is absolutely out the window. People often complain about Mage being underpowered, but in my opinion, Mage is potentially the worst. Every skill, when it breaks past the 90 some dodge and lands, one shots everything around with 700 crit. What happened to actually needing skills other than drain and fire? Instead, take it back to enchanted. The skill damage was still considerably fair, but not as outrageous as it is now. Possibly lower drain's damage and range, and have Mage focus more on AoE damage like it was intended to. No more 100%+ crit. Allow the set bonus to increase mana pool, and possibly heal strength.

    And lastly, getting it's own paragraph, is bird. No doubt birds are insane. In 5v5 CTF, what it comes down to is what team has more birds. Simple answer is DPS, with it's original roots. Bows should give considerably more DPS, and not nearly as much skill damage. Lower all the damage done with arrows, by a lot. If your concerned with it getting underpowered, it still has it's -hit% debuff from blind, giving it enough time to stay alive and have it's DPS take effect without needing +45 dodge. Have auto attack play a larger role, have roots be more vital so they have to hold their target down to chip away at their health. Evade should also play a more interesting role, allow it to give an armor boost, possibly even +H/s and/or health pool, something to make it different. As for the gear, quit adding so much dang hit% to it. You don't need 200 some hit%, Focus and the hit delivering from the dex attributes alone are more than enough. Rather, why not have a stat on it that contributes strictly to DPS? It doesn't effect skill damage by making blast deal 500 damage, it simply issues a higher DPS.

    I realize these may not be too realistic, but the classes haven't changed much in the 3+ years this game has been around. There's been rebalances before, and now is time for another. Here's the thing, do it right this time and you won't need to come back in a few months/years to do it again. People can wait for a new campaign, I personally will be more than patient if it means the mechanics of the game are going to improve. Again, I get that AL is STS' largest title and that's where the most attention should be directed, but investing so much attention into that game to simply have your other's get fed to the dogs (in which you've invested a lot of time and money into, and in this case, is the reason for where you are now) is the worst plan possible.

    Tl;dr: STS, please wake up and acknowledge your original title. Take the classes back to where they were meant to be, bird for DPS, Mage for support/AoE damage, and bear for tanking.

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    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Wise words, David! Very well stated.

    I hate to break it to you, but what's the point, now? The devs have seen so many 'honorable' members making threads on attempt at trying to change PvP. They just don't listen, and haven't even ONCE acknowledged the issue. I'm surprised they still moderate these forums, and haven't just found player-moderators because they're so focused on AL.

    What my new motive has been: Just enjoy the PvP now, because STS will not be fixing it. I have adapted to using my Mage for pure support, because if I try to 1v1 a bear or bird, I have a 1 in 10 chance. I'm all about CTF/teamwork at the moment, but never even bother going into forest fight games. If they cared about PL as much as they used to, they would've made these PvP changes already.

    I suppose everything counts, however. Again, well said. Hopefully this will be taken into account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    Wise words, David! Very well stated.

    I hate to break it to you, but what's the point, now? The devs have seen so many 'honorable' members making threads on attempt at trying to change PvP. They just don't listen, and haven't even ONCE acknowledged the issue. I'm surprised they still moderate these forums, and haven't just found player-moderators because they're so focused on AL.
    Figured silence doesn't do anything. At the very least, I got to rant to a degree about all the new players thinking they're pro because they have a crafted set.

    What my new motive has been: Just enjoy the PvP now, because STS will not be fixing it. I have adapted to using my Mage for pure support, because if I try to 1v1 a bear or bird, I have a 1 in 10 chance. I'm all about CTF/teamwork at the moment, but never even bother going into forest fight games. If they cared about PL as much as they used to, they would've made these PvP changes already.
    I typically stick with CTF as well. However, I see CTF getting just as bad as PvP is if the decline continues. It will simply become the snowball effect with things. You've been around since the brink of PL with me, you know how it was at 45 cap, and I'd say this cap is very very similar to it. I figure they'll feel some obligation to change something at some point, because from where it is now, it won't be long before a cap comes along with gear and skills that just entirely destroys the game from all aspects.

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    Good read! Very true, I don't endgame cause birds 1shot people and Dodge everything.

    My solutions: (some already mentioned above)
    Wayyyy more health! Less Dodge! Less crit! Less dps.

    Easy fix sts! common!!

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    This is endgame right? Well like ghost said they haven't done anything about it and plus new cap should be coming in June (according to previous cap trends, it's highly likely or July latest) I think it's too late for a change.
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    Contrary to what most believe, I think the devs are listening to every single thing we say just about. This was a great post, MysticalDream, and I'm glad that you posted it. I'm sure the devs will use this at some point, simply because you're an old member of this forum and you've seen a lot and know a lot about Pocket Legends. The devs don't listen to just any random guy on the forum complaining about stuff in game. When they see consistency in complaints even from guys like you, they realize there is legitimately something wrong.

    The devs have stated many times the way they view things. "This is a business." How many times have we heard that before? Any successful business will invest in the things that make it good profit. Pocket Legends once made STS big profit but now Arcane Legends is making them the big profit. It would be very foolish for them to keep investing in a game that is making them little profit.

    It is clear that they do care about their other games as evidenced by the ads. Have you noticed that when you hop on Pocket Legends they advertise Star Legends, Dark Legends, and Arcane Legends? I've noticed that each of their games advertise their other games. What I'm getting at is that I feel the devs do, in fact, care about this game but their master plan for fixing it is to draw people in from other games. Once they get a good income going, they'll be able to start putting to action all the stuff we have been complaining about.

    Anyways, just felt I should share that considering most people seem to have lost hope. I really don't think STS is done with this game, or Star Legends or Dark Legends. I just think they can't do what they would like to at the moment because, simply put, it's just not worth their time and effort.

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    You know...now that I really think about it...
    The ONLY reason they get so much money from AL is...:
    Those locked.crate thingies. They offer chance at verrrrryyyy rare item, and also give plat users an advantage cuz each locked crate costs 15 plat.
    Ppl buy tonso plat and Continuosly open these nub crates.
    What about PL? The oldies.are here. Some of em just go to AL.
    Pl isnt plat based, and just yesterday I saw sooo many games at Mega Maze mash with 70+ in it.
    That probably means ppl buy tonsa plat, buy week double XP, buy thrashers, buy XP amywhere.
    So basically, sts is recieving money from a game thats being neglectex? That's...kinda sad.
    And devs really should open up and at least say something about these. Normal ppl are already complaining, but the oldies and founders of PL also?
    These ppl have been with sts for a long time, and sts shouldnt just neglect ppl who have been with them for 1/2 years...

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    ^ As well as plat for character slots, mandatory for twinking. Then the vanity items and rings for said multiple twinks. Then the plat to form guilds. It all adds up, and many people do this, I'm sure. I have like 20something characters. It should all be considered.

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    I agree at this point the three main classes are doing more than what they meant to do in few ways.

    But pallies are op-est class at this moment, and whoever says birds rules ctf matches, no actually presence of pallies determine which team is gonna win the ctf match.

    PVP balance is in it's highest critical point when, a mixed hybrid str class do the highest single hit damage with an one handed weapon. Anyway techno herself said pallies are op.

    I'd obviously say that birds seems to be op only cause of 2hit kill, if not dodged. A pure int mage can crush a good bird anytime if they don't get 2/3 hitted. But the obviously the mage also should not 2hit kill the bird, that's how it would be balanced.
    Last edited by Waug; 05-25-2013 at 10:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendfb View Post
    I agree at this point the three main classes are doing more than what they meant to do in few ways.

    But pallies are op-est class at this moment, and whoever says birds rules ctf matches, no actually presence of pallies determine which team is gonna win the ctf match.

    PVP balance is in it's highest critical point when, a mixed hybrid str class do the highest single hit damage with an one handed weapon. Anyway techno herself said pallies are op.

    I'd obviously say that birds seems to be op only cause of 2hit kill, if not dodged. A pure int mage can crush a good bird anytime if they don't get 2/3 hitted. But the obviously the mage also should not 2hit kill the bird, that's how it would be balanced.
    BTW highest damage goes to full int mage with staff then int mage with wand and elite bird. Then dex bear then pally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendfb View Post
    I agree at this point the three main classes are doing more than what they meant to do in few ways.

    But pallies are op-est class at this moment, and whoever says birds rules ctf matches, no actually presence of pallies determine which team is gonna win the ctf match.

    PVP balance is in it's highest critical point when, a mixed hybrid str class do the highest single hit damage with an one handed weapon. Anyway techno herself said pallies are op.

    I'd obviously say that birds seems to be op only cause of 2hit kill, if not dodged. A pure int mage can crush a good bird anytime if they don't get 2/3 hitted. But the obviously the mage also should not 2hit kill the bird, that's how it would be balanced.
    I will agree pallies are arguably more overpowered, but there are far less of them than str birds, making them a smaller factor.

    Yes, that's basically what Mage has become. If the other class dodges anything, they're one shot. If their skills land though, they nuke immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMicah View Post
    Contrary to what most believe, I think the devs are listening to every single thing we say just about. This was a great post, MysticalDream, and I'm glad that you posted it. I'm sure the devs will use this at some point, simply because you're an old member of this forum and you've seen a lot and know a lot about Pocket Legends. The devs don't listen to just any random guy on the forum complaining about stuff in game. When they see consistency in complaints even from guys like you, they realize there is legitimately something wrong.

    The devs have stated many times the way they view things. "This is a business." How many times have we heard that before? Any successful business will invest in the things that make it good profit. Pocket Legends once made STS big profit but now Arcane Legends is making them the big profit. It would be very foolish for them to keep investing in a game that is making them little profit.

    It is clear that they do care about their other games as evidenced by the ads. Have you noticed that when you hop on Pocket Legends they advertise Star Legends, Dark Legends, and Arcane Legends? I've noticed that each of their games advertise their other games. What I'm getting at is that I feel the devs do, in fact, care about this game but their master plan for fixing it is to draw people in from other games. Once they get a good income going, they'll be able to start putting to action all the stuff we have been complaining about.

    Anyways, just felt I should share that considering most people seem to have lost hope. I really don't think STS is done with this game, or Star Legends or Dark Legends. I just think they can't do what they would like to at the moment because, simply put, it's just not worth their time and effort.
    I like your point of view, and how you're playing Devil's advocate.

    Allow me to come from another perspective.

    PvP was unbalanced well before Arcane Legends was ever out. Dark Legends was in the running, SL was being denied because PL was still up there. The stats were adressed (very rarely) and the changes did nothing to a tiny bit.

    What I'm trying to say, perhaps, is that STS still loves all of their games (although, the more we are neglected due to 'business' the more i contradict this statement), but THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO ACTUALLY FIX THE STATS. I would love to see the devs gather up some 10-15 top notch PvPers from all different levels that could adress everything PvP wise. Honestly, if this were in place, this 'group' could make progress over time, and the Devs would realistically be doing none of the work. Going back to what you said, Micah, is that there is no point of putting in the effort by investing in a game that isn't as popular as the newest version of game...

    Why not make it a win-win situation by pulling the information out from the players themselves, and letting the devs make those simple changes? I know I, and many others, would be willing to discuss stat/skill issues. I don't see what's so difficult in that.
    Last edited by XghostzX; 05-25-2013 at 11:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtheboss View Post
    BTW highest damage goes to full int mage with staff then int mage with wand and elite bird. Then dex bear then pally.
    I didn't compare pallies with other mages rather compared with other classes, and your statement indicating you missed the point that I made.

    When any class put points in str, actually they choose to tank more, and wanna be defensive that also means less offensive, that's what it meant to be, but even going with str i.e low damaging build, they're doing immense damage.

    Edit : Get l76 gears, look at your drain, you'll know what I meant by highest single hit damage.
    Last edited by Waug; 05-25-2013 at 11:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMicah View Post
    The devs have stated many times the way they view things. "This is a business." How many times have we heard that before? Any successful business will invest in the things that make it good profit. Pocket Legends once made STS big profit but now Arcane Legends is making them the big profit. It would be very foolish for them to keep investing in a game that is making them little profit.
    A wise man once told me years ago that if i start a buisness I would need to care of my clients and in this case they are taking care of only a certain % of there clients.
    Last edited by Cheenivie; 05-26-2013 at 07:07 AM.

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    Sigh...yeah yeah sts still loves us .. We love them.. But do they realise that there pvp is turning to trash luck. @Legendfb if your saying drain has highest dmg yes it may but how many chances will it have to actually hit a bird or a bear... If that's what your talking about.. I support mystic 100%! We need something like a vote in the game to let the players that don't have forums or even have a vote on forums, let sts how many players a percentage of what NEEDS to be fixed! And id say endgame PvP would get the most attention. Thought of this when I signed in in Black ops 2 and they have these cool things where you vote out of 4 camos top 2 votes will get to be implemented into the game to purchase. For PL there should be like that but different, maybe then they will get the real suggestions from the community
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    Pallies might be OP, but their skills have a small delay. That delay could cause them to die.
    Other hand, bird blast is almost immediate, so if a pallie casts drain, and bird shoots blast, if no dodge, most likely bird will be winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowstar View Post
    Pallies might be OP, but their skills have a small delay. That delay could cause them to die.
    Other hand, bird blast is almost immediate, so if a pallie casts drain, and bird shoots blast, if no dodge, most likely bird will be winner.
    Pfft, you got dis point from me

    Yeah, with damage as high as this, that extra half second is immense for a Pally. A bird can cast about 3-4 more spells that hit instantly in a span of 2-3 seconds than a Pally can.

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    I have said, and still say, we need two separate sets: one for PvE and one for PvP.

    I say this because I agree with everything David had said, but by drastically decreasing dodge, it also affects PvE. A bear in PvE that doesn't dodge is basically worthless for crowd control. Yes, I can care less about if I am leading the group in kills-per-run. I also do not care to spam health pots (most mages don't heal anymore anyways.) But when I am being hit and stunned every .5 seconds, it inhibits my ability to tank and frustrates the crap out of me.

    With that said, I like how the Elite Boulder is set up. I am required to use almost full base strength, but still have 99% hit and very good armor, health, regen, and dodge. The issue, like David said, with the other two Elite weapons is their stats are uber-powered which make for fun PvE, but a frustrated PvP community. Two sets, though I know not feasible, would help.

    Of course I still in the boat of class specific gear. May decrease diversity, but would also clear certain issues up. And don't get me started having the "charge" skill we so long asked for for bears being given to the two new classes.
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    Yep that sounds not bad to be crim... Or just reduce pve difficulty. If you have elixirs like combos then the dungeons difficulty will rise. I actually think that's a good idea xD if theres something wrong tell me cause I wrote all that without barely thinking >.<
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    I say PvP has been like this ever since they brought out angelic gear.

    66 has been my limit since I believe anything above is pure luck, making anyone with money able to kill.

    Come back to twink at 50-56 guys!

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