Are we hitting a cap on percent based buffs?

[Serancha]

only trust what you can see from the stat page

Actually, this is incorrect when it comes to archon rings.

Second round of tests PVP Specific show:

• The % damage addition from an archon ring is nulled by pets with 15% damage. ie. The damage is the same with archon or another ring (in this case my blood ruby) which gives the same pre-% stats.

• However, a 15% damage pet only actually adds 5% damage in the ctf arena. This is the result of class balancing in pvp, I believe.

• This balancing means that a pet with 5% damage does not have its % damage counted at all, allowing the archon to actually give its bonus.

• I did not have a chance to test with a 10% damage pet yet, but these findings imply that 10% damage from pets is likely discounted in pvp


Archon armor bonus (warrior) ring does still give a benefit when used in conjunction with passive armor (in comparison to a normal warrior ring that does not have the % armor bonus). This was not tested with armor producing pets, so that is still an unknown variable.


Repeat that these are only pvp tests, and things act much differently in pve.

[Zeus]

I think we all need to take some time to determine which bonuses get overidden and which do not.

Was this tested with a %DMG bonus (Loki or DMG elixir)?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Percent damage pet (Samael). Not using that upgrade resulted in my critical damage essentially halving.

[Anarchist]

So sts scammed us?? Or what?

I have always had this feeling that damage stacking had something wrong sometimes when running minor elites i randomly summon damage % pets standing in shadow veil and shooting at the mobs and everytime i had this feeling i should have been doing way more damage compared to my normal shots.

Upon that when i got a damage lix from Klaas i usually tried to see how much more damage i would add if i stacked the lix with my pet...while i would be expecting a huge difference compared to my normal shots i always got disappointed by the damage output.

Thought it was normal and concluded there was probably a damage stack cap at some point and never looked into it.
Then today i read this.

Lmao


@ Sts this was a nice one.

[phillyr]

Im not trying to be a sourpuss here and take away from the constructiveness of this thread...but whats the point in buying and farming all the best pets and items in the game if the items you farm dont stack with the pets you bought with money? Or the elixers we pay cash for? If such a limit exists it needs to be set in stone and announced to the players.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[GoodSyntax]

Im not trying to be a sourpuss here and take away from the constructiveness of this thread...but whats the point in buying and farming all the best pets and items in the game if the items you farm dont stack with the pets you bought with money? Or the elixers we pay cash for? If such a limit exists it needs to be set in stone and announced to the players.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

It's a matter of strategy. If you have a DMG elixir and you want to maximize damage, use a pet that gives you a stat bonus. If you do not have a DMG elixir, you can use DMG % pets like Loki and Talon.

It's a matter of knowing what will be most beneficial in any given situation.

I'm a bit bummed out about the Passives, but I will respec to fix that oversight.

Now, I'm working on whether archon bonuses actually apply before calculation or if it is negated by what was discovered.

[phillyr]

It's a matter of strategy. If you have a DMG elixir and you want to maximize damage, use a pet that gives you a stat bonus. If you do not have a DMG elixir, you can use DMG % pets like Loki and Talon.

It's a matter of knowing what will be most beneficial in any given situation.

I'm a bit bummed out about the Passives, but I will respec to fix that oversight.

Now, I'm working on whether archon bonuses actually apply before calculation or if it is negated by what was discovered.

Yes exactly. Thanks for your time on this and good luck to ya

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Samhayne]

Hey gang,

I wanted to interject some commentary about the Dev Teams culpability with the design of % damage items. The designers who made these pets and items didn't do so with any malicious aims in their hearts. They put together a suite of items out of the available statistics to modify with the aim of making items that they thought you, the players, would enjoy. When the stats of the pets or items went live and people seem delighted, it was job well done and then on to the next thing to work on.

Really, the core issue is one of documentation. Spacetime is really good at making stuff, but not all that hot in leaving behind a nice trail of documentation about it. It is something that we are working on doing better.

This issue of documentation leads to multiple problems. For example, pet abilities have been designed in the past with sufficient power that they justify a very long cooldown. The problem is, the designer who did that thought that the cooldown would always be enforced and didn't know that it could be circumvented. In a nutshell, they were lacking documentation about how pets really work. This, and other issues, are on our roadmap to address.

I really appreciate the effort Kalizzaa has put into testing these issues and bringing them to light. As a long time MMORGP player (and min/maxer) myself, I can empathize with the desire for more information. One thing that we do have fixed that will come out with the next client of Arcane Legends (a new app version) is the % display being accurately reflected in the roll up of numbers that are shown in the Avatar section. This should go a long way to helping you better understand which item or pet is the one you want to use.

As always, thanks a ton for being part of the Arcane Legends community.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

[Kellhus]

Hey gang,

I wanted to interject some commentary about the Dev Teams culpability with the design of % damage items. The designers who made these pets and items didn't do so with any malicious aims in their hearts. They put together a suite of items out of the available statistics to modify with the aim of making items that they thought you, the players, would enjoy. When the stats of the pets or items went live and people seem delighted, it was job well done and then on to the next thing to work on.

Really, the core issue is one of documentation. Spacetime is really good at making stuff, but not all that hot in leaving behind a nice trail of documentation about it. It is something that we are working on doing better.

This issue of documentation leads to multiple problems. For example, pet abilities have been designed in the past with sufficient power that they justify a very long cooldown. The problem is, the designer who did that thought that the cooldown would always be enforced and didn't know that it could be circumvented. In a nutshell, they were lacking documentation about how pets really work. This, and other issues, are on our roadmap to address.

I really appreciate the effort Kalizzaa has put into testing these issues and bringing them to light. As a long time MMORGP player (and min/maxer) myself, I can empathize with the desire for more information. One thing that we do have fixed that will come out with the next client of Arcane Legends (a new app version) is the % display being accurately reflected in the roll up of numbers that are shown in the Avatar section. This should go a long way to helping you better understand which item or pet is the one you want to use.

As always, thanks a ton for being part of the Arcane Legends community.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

Cool thanks for that Sam. Always good to hear some news straight from the horses mouth rather than speculation. This has been a really good thread and was wondering if other states have been tested in the same manner?


...

[Serancha]

Thanks for this Sam. Much appreciated.


Edit: two questions.

Will the stats displayed on the new client be the actual damage output, or the raw stats before cancellations?

Will elixir bonuses also display on stat sheet, or just natural additions?

[GoodSyntax]

More research....

I did a similar test to see if the 10% DMG stack from Aimed Shot works. I am pleased to report that it does! This includes my 5/5 DMG passive, so based on my sample, I am seeing approximately 11% gain in DMG between the first Aimed Shot and the Second, which is well within the expected margin of error.



One note in my testing is that the damage values recorded are extremely peaky! Note the Min/Max values. My Min for the first aimed bottomed out at 978, while my max peaked at 2089, or more than double the low value! Same applies to the second hit as well.

[Serancha]

Was this tested with a damage pet on, naked (petless), or as a comparison? Just curious. Nice work <3

[GoodSyntax]

Was this tested with a damage pet on, naked (petless), or as a comparison? Just curious. Nice work <3

No pet. I will try the same test using Loki, but I suspect it will work as expected. I think the DMG stack falls under a different calculation than the passives. Otherwise I would have expected to see a 5% bump in DMG.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[FluffNStuff]

With Archon Ring ............ ........... Without Archon Ring


Testing done in Elite Ydra on the first four mobs that spawn. I took shots at them and kept recording damage until I determined both the Maximum and the Minimum:

No Elixir:
Without Archon Ring:
332
415
With Archon Ring:
340
422

Using 25% Damage Elixir:
Without Archon Ring:
415 (25% increase)
517 (24.57% increase)

With Archon Ring:
424 (24.7% increase)
527 (24.8% increase)

[Serancha]

Yeah it's a strange thing. I just tested several zones, and most it did not appear to count but a couple it did. This might be due to the huge variation in hit strengths too. The archon thing is buggy looking. Will post numbers tomorrow after some more crunching.

[GoodSyntax]

I appreciate all of you that are lending a hand in testing. It's so cool to see so many that are willing to invest the time just to help others.

You guys rock!

[jb57542]

I guess this means shadowlurks passive is mostly useless except for the crit modifier.

[wvhills]

Hey gang,

I wanted to interject some commentary about the Dev Teams culpability with the design of % damage items. The designers who made these pets and items didn't do so with any malicious aims in their hearts. They put together a suite of items out of the available statistics to modify with the aim of making items that they thought you, the players, would enjoy. When the stats of the pets or items went live and people seem delighted, it was job well done and then on to the next thing to work on.

Really, the core issue is one of documentation. Spacetime is really good at making stuff, but not all that hot in leaving behind a nice trail of documentation about it. It is something that we are working on doing better.

This issue of documentation leads to multiple problems. For example, pet abilities have been designed in the past with sufficient power that they justify a very long cooldown. The problem is, the designer who did that thought that the cooldown would always be enforced and didn't know that it could be circumvented. In a nutshell, they were lacking documentation about how pets really work. This, and other issues, are on our roadmap to address.

I really appreciate the effort Kalizzaa has put into testing these issues and bringing them to light. As a long time MMORGP player (and min/maxer) myself, I can empathize with the desire for more information. One thing that we do have fixed that will come out with the next client of Arcane Legends (a new app version) is the % display being accurately reflected in the roll up of numbers that are shown in the Avatar section. This should go a long way to helping you better understand which item or pet is the one you want to use.

As always, thanks a ton for being part of the Arcane Legends community.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

I appreciate ur comments but we've been hearing about this passive bug fix for too long already. IMO, it's not right of u guys to sell pets for plat (real life) and use % damage as a selling point knowing full and well that % damage is worthless while standing in veil. Most elite parties I have been in have two rogues that rotate veil so my pet %damage as well as passive damage has been useless this whole time. I feel that it's dishonest and that I have been cheated. I appreciate ur apology but it's too late. This information should have been made available in season 1.

As far as pet spamming goes, I understand ur explanation but honestly, anyone who plays either PVP or runs elites just one hour a week has known about pet spamming since a month after Samael comes out.

IMO, u guys have a history of letting known bugs go unaddressed while working on that next thing to sell plat. Our stats not being accurate, pet spamming, elite bosses being bugged (wraith heart, nord boss red zones, etc) should be addressed once they are discovered and not put on a to do list. The pirate ring debacle is another thing that should have been addressed from the start instead of being allowed to spiral out of control for days.

Honestly, I'm lacking confidence in you guys right now and really wish I hadn't bought a ton of plat last plat sell.

[Bigboyblue]

Hey gang,

I wanted to interject some commentary about the Dev Teams culpability with the design of % damage items. The designers who made these pets and items didn't do so with any malicious aims in their hearts. They put together a suite of items out of the available statistics to modify with the aim of making items that they thought you, the players, would enjoy. When the stats of the pets or items went live and people seem delighted, it was job well done and then on to the next thing to work on.

Really, the core issue is one of documentation. Spacetime is really good at making stuff, but not all that hot in leaving behind a nice trail of documentation about it. It is something that we are working on doing better.

This issue of documentation leads to multiple problems. For example, pet abilities have been designed in the past with sufficient power that they justify a very long cooldown. The problem is, the designer who did that thought that the cooldown would always be enforced and didn't know that it could be circumvented. In a nutshell, they were lacking documentation about how pets really work. This, and other issues, are on our roadmap to address.

I really appreciate the effort Kalizzaa has put into testing these issues and bringing them to light. As a long time MMORGP player (and min/maxer) myself, I can empathize with the desire for more information. One thing that we do have fixed that will come out with the next client of Arcane Legends (a new app version) is the % display being accurately reflected in the roll up of numbers that are shown in the Avatar section. This should go a long way to helping you better understand which item or pet is the one you want to use.

As always, thanks a ton for being part of the Arcane Legends community.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

Sam,

Does this mean that there will not be a rewrite to the code to enable damage stacking?

[Anarchial]

I wanted to test whether armor and dame reductions really stacks or not. Even though Armor translates into damage reduction still my testing revealed that armor and damage reduction stacks. And what I found out is that the passive 5%armor(in current cap) translates to 100x to 150x(x is the variable also called damage modifier). This damage modfier is unknown but my testing revealed that for tindirin 2nd map(normal) the modifier is 0.0216. So the 5% armor translates to 2% damage reduction in normal tindirin. This modifier is even lesser in elite maps and decreases as the difficulty increases. So my testing suggests that 5 armor passive is quite USELESS for endgamers.
Please let me know if anyone finds my results wrong or wants to shed some light on the matter. I am still wondering where to put the skill points of my armor passive

[Anarchial]

One more thing I have no idea about how the armor works in pvp. Somebody go test it there. Pvp gives me nightmares