Just saying, I'm pretty damn proud of those data points. The accuracy of the averages are all, but one, within the excellent range and all anomalous figure counts are 10% or below.
And, I swear, if I get one more "you missed the point" when I'm not even done yet; I will flip this table. Now, off to surf ✌
Lol, take it easy. >_>
I'm just unsure how verifying the armor increases retracting from damage taken as warrior is related to what the OP is pointing at. We'll need to take a look from the rest of the party members' perspective, if anything.
Either that, or damage isn't add important as we thinkOriginally Posted by Serancha
AL: Rare (Rogue)/Common (Warrior)/Mythic (Sorcerer)
Curious. I've always felt that rogue/sorc parties seemed to complete faster; albeit at far greater risk to the party members.
I will do some testing on Monday.
Grats! This is terrific research!
Now, does this apply to solo rogues? So if I equip magma, mythic, tarlok, conq and a perhaps architect sets I should see the mobs have progressively lower HP? I'm just trying to determine what the premise is for testing purposes.
Last edited by GoodSyntax; 06-28-2014 at 07:48 PM.
AL: Kalizzaa
Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained
Thanks Kali,
That's the part I am not sure of. Whether they have lower armor, lower health, or what the deal is. The single mob tests were inconclusive, mostly due to the amount of time they take, but the overall effect whether solo or in a party is noticable. I was hoping you'd jump in on this and help fill in some of the things I was unable to work out. Give me a shout on Monday. I can toss you my testing gear if you want, since I structured it to eliminate as many variables as possible.
You never know what you can do until you tryThere are two ways of doing something: right, and again.
I don't think your tests are accurate enough. You should have tested different weapons. It seems like the less damage the whole party has, the less health the mobs do.
Since buying my Orbital i've noticed how i'm still being hit the same, snakes are still doing 2k without shield just like using my expedition gun. My armor has increased by 20ish points and my armor by only 41. It seems like damage is what is making mobs hit harder and have more health, not armor.
By testing the weapons used you'll be able to get better results. Try testing and expedition brutality vs potency, you'll be able to see if damage is something which makes mobs harder.
As well, if only one player is running high armor they are less likely to aggro the mobs if they are a rogue/mage so this is why you may seem to be taking more damage than running with a full mythic party.
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I was on that hauntlet run with Sera, and we did not do anything different in regards to strategy or change out our team. We made several attempts to get the ap and were consistent with the end time within 1-2 seconds. The very first run that we had the warrior switch out to hellish we were able to complete almost 15 seconds faster using the same party and the same strategy we had the whole time.
This is so far the best post in AL history, if it is proved to be true by STS. You deserve a free crane ring.
Ok here is my detailed verification after you posted thread. First of all, if someone is opposing your thread, it doesn't mean that I'm trolling. Different people have different thinkings. And what I was thinking was absolutely right. As you said, mobs hp/armour is proportional to the armour we are wearing. And I think, mobs have the same hp/armour and is independent of the armour values of party members.
So as you said, I tried 2 tests on a simple elite brackenridge forest mob. First, wearing mythic set with 2000+ armour and damage is about 301. Using damage kit in both the cases. So with 301 damage and 2k armour I hit mob with charged primary attack 8 times and noted down values. There are screen shots:
So this was with 2k armour.
Then I tested it without armour. And tried to reach the same damage what I had with myth gear. Used goblin glaive of potency and the closest damage I made was 295. Its quite close. And tested again, with charged goblin glaives for 8 times. Here are the results:
These were the damage output done by me with 295 damage. Skill damage varies a lot, that's why charging primary weapon is the most efficient and accurate way to test it.
Ok the results are as listed below.
With 2000+ armour, and 301 damage, Damage output was:
1) 518
2)517
3)525
4)551
5)540
6)511
7)502
8)522
Total damage done with 2k+ armour is 4186 and the average damage done is 523.25.
With 40 armour and 296 damage, the damage output was as given below:
1)505
2)509
3)584
4)559
5)555
6)496
7)587
8)579
Total damage done with 40+ armour is 4374 and the average damage is 546.75.
According to these observation, difference of 20 is not much at all. Hence. I can end up saying that the mobs have fixed hp and armour and it doesn't matter what armour value you have.
Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere.
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Low level maps don't scale.
You never know what you can do until you tryThere are two ways of doing something: right, and again.
a brief summary for all new readers:
Lol why?
I am in my holidays, no worries. I'll be doing this in elite tindrin and provide you with the results.
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a brief summary for all new readers:
Well said lol
Avy
12-2012
There is so much data involved that it is impossible for one person to gather it all. It would take years. The reason I posted at this time was because of the new armour-based gear coming out. If there is an issue with scaling, it need looking at. There is enough data to show a pattern that doesn't match logic. By posting what I have found to date with the help of my guild, I am opening this up to the other players who are good at testing game mechanics.
I wasn't going to waste people's time by posting it before I had a decent data set. I also am not making this a full time job. I do not have ALL the data possible, which means now others can participate and we can get a more conclusive picture of the situation.
I do not claim everything I posted is 100% correct, I am stating that these are things showing in an ongoing, game-wide pattern seen by numerous players. If there is a bug involved, the devs need to look at it. If there is no bug, we need to rethink the way we structure our gear loadouts. Either way we need more data, and I don't have the time or patience to do it all myself.
You never know what you can do until you tryThere are two ways of doing something: right, and again.
Sera, your first post sparked interest from devs, obviously you have something worthy of being checked outthanks again !
Avy
12-2012
What you have to prove is that either:
A: Armor doesn't correlate directly to damage intake.
Or
B: Damage/DPS doesn't correlate directly to damage output.
The latter is harder to test since it has two variables and will likely take me 5+ hours to do both the testing and analysis of (assuming I do 8 trials, which I will). Time is not a valid dependent variable for your claim since it has hundreds of variables. I have a sneaking suspicion that the result will be that skill is more important than gear (shocker) and that you were more focused with weaker gear due to the game being more demanding.
PS: such notes as "over months" and "30+ people" are not helping your cause in my opinion since that makes your testing impossible to replicate.
Last edited by Crowsfoot; 06-28-2014 at 09:35 PM.
As I said, it's impossible for one person to test everything. I work 70 hours a week. A lot of my guild members participated in this, as we have an entire forum section dedicated to proper research techniques and information gathering.
I don't have a "cause" to help. There is something unusual so I am putting it out there for other people to look at, including the devs. I did not post this to get into some sort of war with you, nor did I post it to antagonize speed runners. I posted it in hopes of getting more information on a topic that has been of interest to many people for a long time.
You never know what you can do until you tryThere are two ways of doing something: right, and again.
If armor effects damage intake as well as output, then either armor or damage/DPS will not correlate directly to their intended purpose.
Again, time is not a valid dependent varianpble sine there are hundreds of variables that effect a run.
Since Sam already stated Devs will look into this, why not just enjoy the Weekend and wait what they come up with? We have Summer, Soccer WM, and the Big Event is near, let s all take a Rest!
I believe that damage has something to do with mob damage and hp. Try using different weapons and go into a tindirin map and see if you are being hit harder. If my theory is correct a mage with an expedidtion gun will be hit less than a mage with an arcane staff.
All gears should be the same and no pet used. I think armor has nothing to do with it, you have proved that tarlok in tindirin is about the same time as mythics bit you haven't thought that the large damage increase may have something to do with mobs hp/damage.
Think about it, less damage = less mob damage but the same damage when using mythics. 450 dmg 1100 armor vs 520 dmg 1363 armor, try gettting somewhere around 450 dmg whilst having mythics equipped and you should be able to determine if damage is the most important factor which decides the mobs hp and dmg dealt.
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