A big request from an old player. (Read this one, devs.)

[DivineMoustache]

When I use Fbow against other FBOW Bears it's just no fun because I win 49/50 fights with it. Demon claw makes it not as luck based. By spamming skills I didn't mean that literally. I mean people can just use beckon hs cb stomp sms and one or the other was usually dead by then. Fights that quick aren't based off of skill.

So...one in fifty of your fights are ruined by bow? That's a 2% chance of a lucky fight occurring. Not sure what you're saying with this.

edit: also regarding your point about quick fights -

if you think fbows make fights quick now, prefbow fights were just as quick. You're forgetting that before fbows were introduced and nerfed, skill damage and buffs as a whole were higher. Also, quickness doesn't mean no skill at all. I think quick fights make HS bear even more skill based, because it allows the other bear less time to get lucky with a random HS to hit you and then somehow your HS misses. The only problem I had with the fbows prenerf were that fights were quick to the point where they lasted 2 seconds. Everyone had to have extreme knowledge of range (skill), but a win after a drain frost fire didn't leave me that satisfied. These days, I think fights are the perfect pace.

[Rescind]

This is my perspective on things:
1. You stated that 56+ was high paced. Imo fbows and paws help low level ranges get a little high high paced action. Fights definitely end faster with the use of fbows and paws.
2. You said we should make fbows,paws,etc obsolete. From what i experience, these items are mostly OP due to their procs. At low levels, we have very little hit and armor. With that being said, the fbow proc stacking -15hit twice can be devastating. With our low armor, the paw proc of -25 armor can definitely take a toll on your hp. As for me, I think taking away their procs will do us more justice than making them obsolete as a whole. Also, fbows aren't only used for pvp. I use some odd leveled fbows to lvl up my toons/farm with at the lower lvls. Making paws,fbow, etcc obsolete will have a negative effect at lower lvls with the rich being able to afford the better WF items. Not everyone can afford the l15 sbls and toys.as you know, minor stat boosts can determine a fight at lower lvls.

[ToastyLord]

1.) It may be, but before forgotten items came out, people had no problem with others using a dex plat pack at 10-20 from my experience.
2.) Things can change, simply put.
3.) Both pros and noobs with a bit of gold can grab a purple forgotten item. These forgotten items simply can outclass WF items, (Toymans in particular.)
4) Well, either way, it helps you have a LOT more chance of winning by using the items.
5.) LMAO. You're obviously a newer player. You know nothing about the old days.
6.) You already said this, why say it again? To emphasize it? Yeah, ok. We get it.

I can see where you're going, but really, think about it..

Everyone uses forg/hallo, is it really OP now that everyone is using it? They're cheap enough so EVERYONE to be able to buy it. Say hallo/forg were insanely nerfed to where they're no longer useful in PvP. This would make people who are insanely rich (and can afford toys and such) or those who can spend money on the game to get plat packs at the top of the food chain! IMO, this would make things worse.

Also, forg (mainly purp) can easily be beaten with certain strategies and items.

Btw, is it bad to be a new player? You say that like it is. And yes, I have played low lvl pvp before forg.

My main point is, would this really fix anything?! Just think, after this, WF items would be the main OP items, except for the fact that they'd be too expensive for the people with lower amounts of gold, so instead of everyone having a chance at getting good gear, only the rich would.

[MercherofPL]

Intresting topic

[iamtony]

So...one in fifty of your fights are ruined by bow? That's a 2% chance of a lucky fight occurring. Not sure what you're saying with this.

edit: also regarding your point about quick fights -

if you think fbows make fights quick now, prefbow fights were just as quick. You're forgetting that before fbows were introduced and nerfed, skill damage and buffs as a whole were higher. Also, quickness doesn't mean no skill at all. I think quick fights make HS bear even more skill based, because it allows the other bear less time to get lucky with a random HS to hit you and then somehow your HS misses. The only problem I had with the fbows prenerf were that fights were quick to the point where they lasted 2 seconds. Everyone had to have extreme knowledge of range (skill), but a win after a drain frost fire didn't leave me that satisfied. These days, I think fights are the perfect pace.

I believe I've already stated that some of my words were exaggerated, so is the 49/50 fights. Also take a look here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exaggeration

[iamtony]

So...one in fifty of your fights are ruined by bow? That's a 2% chance of a lucky fight occurring. Not sure what you're saying with this.

edit: also regarding your point about quick fights -

if you think fbows make fights quick now, prefbow fights were just as quick. You're forgetting that before fbows were introduced and nerfed, skill damage and buffs as a whole were higher. Also, quickness doesn't mean no skill at all. I think quick fights make HS bear even more skill based, because it allows the other bear less time to get lucky with a random HS to hit you and then somehow your HS misses. The only problem I had with the fbows prenerf were that fights were quick to the point where they lasted 2 seconds. Everyone had to have extreme knowledge of range (skill), but a win after a drain frost fire didn't leave me that satisfied. These days, I think fights are the perfect pace.

Fbow fights were quick pre nerf and they still are. Just not as quick as they used to be. Fbow fights are based off of luck usually. That's why I prefer using weapons that take skill. I can't even be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was almost 100 percent balanced then. You tried saying WF stuff would rule pvp if these got taken out, people pre forg used WF a lot and ssc/plat pack sets a lot and they were all balanced. It didn't rule pvp back then when there wasn't even a such thing as an fbow or halloween armor/helm. Also don't get me weong, i like quicker fights but the fbow fights as of now are luck a lot of times, but there is a little more skill than luck involved.

[iamtony]

I can see where you're going, but really, think about it..

Everyone uses forg/hallo, is it really OP now that everyone is using it? They're cheap enough so EVERYONE to be able to buy it. Say hallo/forg were insanely nerfed to where they're no longer useful in PvP. This would make people who are insanely rich (and can afford toys and such) or those who can spend money on the game to get plat packs at the top of the food chain! IMO, this would make things worse.

Also, forg (mainly purp) can easily be beaten with certain strategies and items.

Btw, is it bad to be a new player? You say that like it is. And yes, I have played low lvl pvp before forg.

My main point is, would this really fix anything?! Just think, after this, WF items would be the main OP items, except for the fact that they'd be too expensive for the people with lower amounts of gold, so instead of everyone having a chance at getting good gear, only the rich would.

WF items are just as balanced as platpacks/ssc items. Why do you think there aren't any threads complaining about WF items after 2010 WF event?

[Rescind]

WF items are just as balanced as platpacks/ssc items. Why do you think there aren't any threads complaining about WF items after 2010 WF event?

There were complaints of how there weren't l15 versions of candles back then. Does that count?

[iamtony]

There were complaints of how there weren't l15 versions of candles back then. Does that count?

lol

[AppleNoob]

Fbow fights were quick pre nerf and they still are. Just not as quick as they used to be. Fbow fights are based off of luck usually. That's why I prefer using weapons that take skill. I can't even be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was almost 100 percent balanced then. You tried saying WF stuff would rule pvp if these got taken out, people pre forg used WF a lot and ssc/plat pack sets a lot and they were all balanced. It didn't rule pvp back then when there wasn't even a such thing as an fbow or halloween armor/helm. Also don't get me weong, i like quicker fights but the fbow fights as of now are luck a lot of times, but there is a little more skill than luck involved.

Divine is a founder and I know he was here pre-nerf and pre-forgotten.

Also, fbow takes skill to use effectively. Yes, people often times use it in the way of spamming, spamming, spamming. However, it takes some skill to press the auto button and to know when to actually use it and what range it is.

[DivineMoustache]

Fbow fights were quick pre nerf and they still are. Just not as quick as they used to be. Fbow fights are based off of luck usually. That's why I prefer using weapons that take skill. I can't even be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was almost 100 percent balanced then. You tried saying WF stuff would rule pvp if these got taken out, people pre forg used WF a lot and ssc/plat pack sets a lot and they were all balanced. It didn't rule pvp back then when there wasn't even a such thing as an fbow or halloween armor/helm. Also don't get me weong, i like quicker fights but the fbow fights as of now are luck a lot of times, but there is a little more skill than luck involved.

Yes, WF stuff used to also cost around 1-3M maximum back then, now the best stuff is 30M. There's a difference between affordable and exclusivity.

I also can't be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was not remotely close to 100% balanced back then. Bears ruled low level PvP at level 15 back then, now there's tons of competition from L15 mages who can tank the lower damage from nerf, from L17 Rhinos who are given the ability to do some auto damage output and do insane combo damage, from L17 Nuke birds (although Xbow is easy to kill them with.) L27 was ruled by mages pre-nerf, any good kiter could kill a bear in one or two go arounds. These days, mages are still on top there, but bears have a chance. Foxes have a chance. Rhinos and birds don't though.
You also seem to believe the removal of forgotten bows usefulness would remake PvP back to the nostalgic glory days. It won't. That would only reduce damage across the board, and reduce any balance that low level PvP actually has right now.


edits to all quotes coming:

I believe I've already stated that some of my words were exaggerated, so is the 49/50 fights. Also take a look here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exaggeration

Dear Iamtony,

today I hope you learn that exaggeration should not be used in a conversation that involves people attempting to use facts and logic rather than outlandish claims derived from "exaggerations."

WF items are just as balanced as platpacks/ssc items. Why do you think there aren't any threads complaining about WF items after 2010 WF event?

You seem to like Entertaining and his friend Yich. Please be directed to this quote from Yich, a credible source for low level twinking as they come:

"The previous "special" weapon. The Snowball Launcher (SBL), is very much overpowered in low level PvP. This was also a commonly used weapon before the forgotten bows, the 15 purple SBL. It ranged from 350-500k. The proc freezes your opponent if you're lucky, giving you the chance to stomp them for a COMBO, dealing extra damage and looking pretty sweet." --Yich in his thread specifically talking about the OPness of Forgotten Bows before the nerf.

Insulting a founder, especially one who didn't buy it..

Apple, I appreciate the support, but let's not start any side drama. I like this topic and I'd like to keep it on the rails.

[iamtony]

Yes, WF stuff used to also cost around 1-3M maximum back then, now the best stuff is 30M. There's a difference between affordable and exclusivity.

I also can't be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was not remotely close to 100% balanced back then. Bears ruled low level PvP at level 15 back then, now there's tons of competition from L15 mages who can tank the lower damage from nerf, from L17 Rhinos who are given the ability to do some auto damage output and do insane combo damage, from L17 Nuke birds (although Xbow is easy to kill them with.) L27 was ruled by mages pre-nerf, any good kiter could kill a bear in one or two go arounds. These days, mages are still on top there, but bears have a chance. Foxes have a chance. Rhinos and birds don't though.
You also seem to believe the removal of forgotten bows usefulness would remake PvP back to the nostalgic glory days. It won't. That would only reduce damage across the board, and reduce any balance that low level PvP actually has right now.


edits to all quotes coming:



Dear Iamtony,

today I hope you learn that exaggeration should not be used in a conversation that involves people attempting to use facts and logic rather than outlandish claims derived from "exaggerations."

I've been playing bear since before there even was a pvp. I also understand fbows were completely unbalanced pre nerf, nowhere in this thread did i show I didn't understand that. But if the devs made buffs have more crit and dodge like they used to it would be like pre forg all over again.

[DivineMoustache]

I've been playing bear since before there even was a pvp. I also understand fbows were completely unbalanced pre nerf, nowhere in this thread did i show I didn't understand that. But if the devs made buffs have more crit and dodge like they used to it would be like pre forg all over again.

What your first sentence shows me is that you're reading slightly wrong. The thing you quoted was about pre FORGOTTEN, not pre nerf. I was answering to your statement that pre forg was balanced.

[iamtony]

What your first sentence shows me is that you're reading slightly wrong. The thing you quoted was about pre FORGOTTEN, not pre nerf. I was answering to your statement that pre forg was balanced.

This thread is about going back to pre forgotten not nerf.

[iamtony]

Yes, WF stuff used to also cost around 1-3M maximum back then, now the best stuff is 30M. There's a difference between affordable and exclusivity.

I also can't be sure if you played pre forgotten because you don't seem to understand that it was not remotely close to 100% balanced back then. Bears ruled low level PvP at level 15 back then, now there's tons of competition from L15 mages who can tank the lower damage from nerf, from L17 Rhinos who are given the ability to do some auto damage output and do insane combo damage, from L17 Nuke birds (although Xbow is easy to kill them with.) L27 was ruled by mages pre-nerf, any good kiter could kill a bear in one or two go arounds. These days, mages are still on top there, but bears have a chance. Foxes have a chance. Rhinos and birds don't though.
You also seem to believe the removal of forgotten bows usefulness would remake PvP back to the nostalgic glory days. It won't. That would only reduce damage across the board, and reduce any balance that low level PvP actually has right now.


edits to all quotes coming:



Dear Iamtony,

today I hope you learn that exaggeration should not be used in a conversation that involves people attempting to use facts and logic rather than outlandish claims derived from "exaggerations."



You seem to like Entertaining and his friend Yich. Please be directed to this quote from Yich, a credible source for low level twinking as they come:

"The previous "special" weapon. The Snowball Launcher (SBL), is very much overpowered in low level PvP. This was also a commonly used weapon before the forgotten bows, the 15 purple SBL. It ranged from 350-500k. The proc freezes your opponent if you're lucky, giving you the chance to stomp them for a COMBO, dealing extra damage and looking pretty sweet." --Yich in his thread specifically talking about the OPness of Forgotten Bows before the nerf.



Apple, I appreciate the support, but let's not start any side drama. I like this topic and I'd like to keep it on the rails.

Read what i bolded.

[iamtony]

Divine is a founder and I know he was here pre-nerf and pre-forgotten.

Also, fbow takes skill to use effectively. Yes, people often times use it in the way of spamming, spamming, spamming. However, it takes some skill to press the auto button and to know when to actually use it and what range it is.

If someone is a founder that doesn't mean they were active back then. I have a founders account and i only have logged on it probably around 3-4 times. I didn't really like my old founders account because the founders helm and veteran stuff are the only vanities on them. My neighbor plays PL and I gave it to him while we were on the bus and I thought he'd like it but he got banned like a year ago. Lol.

[Electrophiles]

I don't think devs will do anything...
Ppl like doloway and attackmage have made very detailed thoughout threads but still nothing happened from devs...

Also, I doubt more than 1% of the current pl community actually played before 50 cap

I myself started sewers and I still consider myself a rarity among the current endgame populace...

TBH I'm not even sure you played before 50 cap lol

[DivineMoustache]

This thread is about going back to pre forgotten not nerf.

The thing you quoted was about pre forgotten, not about pre nerf. lmao.

Let me break this down for you man.

1) I responded to your claim about Pre Forgotten era PvP.
2) You answered in terms of Pre - NERF PvP.
3) I told you to re-read because your answer wasn't even relevant to mine. Pre Nerf does not = Pre Forgotten.
4) You bolded me saying Pre Forgotten, then let me know that the thread is talking about Pre Forgotten era PvP. Thanks. I think I already knew that, given that the whole paragraph I just typed was about pre forgotten. You bolded it yourself. Are you having trouble with reading what I write or what?

[Rescind]

You might as well get rid of the lvl15/25/35 counterparts of WF items as well if you're trying to get rid of paws and fbows entirely. That way it'll be truly balanced as everyone will be using the same items. No need for sbls, toys, and tinsels

[iamtony]

The thing you quoted was about pre forgotten, not about pre nerf. lmao.

Let me break this down for you man.

1) I responded to your claim about Pre Forgotten era PvP.
2) You answered in terms of Pre - NERF PvP.
3) I told you to re-read because your answer wasn't even relevant to mine. Pre Nerf does not = Pre Forgotten.
4) You bolded me saying Pre Forgotten, then let me know that the thread is talking about Pre Forgotten era PvP. Thanks. I think I already knew that, given that the whole paragraph I just typed was about pre forgotten. You bolded it yourself. Are you having trouble with reading what I write or what?

I know what the difference between pre forgotten and pre nerf is.