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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Regarding Warrior Weapon Itemization in Underhul

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    Default Regarding Warrior Weapon Itemization in Underhul

    Hey guys,

    I've seen questions come up about Warrior weapons a bit with the new expansion and wanted to give some clarity and history on Warriors in AL. In the past there were seasons where Warriors felt weak in AL PvE. Their level of tankiness wasn't needed to survive in maps, they had issues taunting and keeping aggro of enemies, and their damage output didn't match up with with other classes. This resulted in Warriors slowing down parties and being shunned. Due to issues trying to solve the problems of survivability being needed and aggro, the most viable solution was to increase the damage output of Warriors in an attempt to bring them closer to other classes. As you've seen this brought more viability to Warriors in some respects, but really just made them semi-Rogues with a lot more hp, which caused its own issues.

    With the Underhul expansion we have re-evaluated the classes and their itemization, resulting in the Rogue armor changes as well as the dagger/bow and staff/gun changes. When looking at Warriors we addressed their core issues again and have been able to make our intended corrections to both taunt, and the need for Warriors in maps as a tank. Having fixed these issues for the Warriors, the previous damage inflation they gained left them too far above other classes, and it was time to remove that artificial inflation now that Warriors could assume their intended role. While I agree with players that the weapon procs had a large impact on it, the problem stemmed all the way from the base item stats. Warrior weapons were often given a lot of extra damage to make up for their core issues.

    With the weapons in the Underhul expansion we have removed the artificially inflated damage stats for Warrior weapons, and they are now following along the same item progression plan that Rogues and Sorcerers are following. This did mean Warriors had a little extra suffering time while their weapons caught up with the old inflated damage. We know this hasn't been the happiest change while Warrior weapons caught up to the new itemization strategy, but similar to the armor reduction for Rogues, it's something we need to stand firm on for the overall balance of the game.
    That all said, I'm happy to let Warriors know we have reached the point that their weapons have caught up to the itemization curve. We will be evaluating the balance of Warriors within new content and are very optimistic that they have come back in line and their progression will continue as intended from here out!

    Specifically regarding the recently released Arcane Swords: The Immortal Corruption Blade has greater damage than the Dragon Hunter Sword. This is evident by seeing your Damage value as higher when you're equipping. The DPS of the weapon appears lower only because the attack speed of the Dragon Hunter Sword is slightly faster than the Immortal Corruption Blade. I double checked and can assure you the Immortal Corruption Blade has greater base damage, which will reflect in your abilities as well as basic attacks.

    Putting the Spank in your Tank
    -Vroom
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    Very thoughtful and thorough explanation. Thank you

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    Seriously gg vroom, super excellent explanation, leaves no questions and I find myself in complete agreement with your pov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VROOMIGoRealFast View Post
    Hey guys,

    I've seen questions come up about Warrior weapons a bit with the new expansion and wanted to give some clarity and history on Warriors in AL. In the past there were seasons where Warriors felt weak in AL PvE. Their level of tankiness wasn't needed to survive in maps, they had issues taunting and keeping aggro of enemies, and their damage output didn't match up with with other classes. This resulted in Warriors slowing down parties and being shunned. Due to issues trying to solve the problems of survivability being needed and aggro, the most viable solution was to increase the damage output of Warriors in an attempt to bring them closer to other classes. As you've seen this brought more viability to Warriors in some respects, but really just made them semi-Rogues with a lot more hp, which caused its own issues.

    With the Underhul expansion we have re-evaluated the classes and their itemization, resulting in the Rogue armor changes as well as the dagger/bow and staff/gun changes. When looking at Warriors we addressed their core issues again and have been able to make our intended corrections to both taunt, and the need for Warriors in maps as a tank. Having fixed these issues for the Warriors, the previous damage inflation they gained left them too far above other classes, and it was time to remove that artificial inflation now that Warriors could assume their intended role. While I agree with players that the weapon procs had a large impact on it, the problem stemmed all the way from the base item stats. Warrior weapons were often given a lot of extra damage to make up for their core issues.

    With the weapons in the Underhul expansion we have removed the artificially inflated damage stats for Warrior weapons, and they are now following along the same item progression plan that Rogues and Sorcerers are following. This did mean Warriors had a little extra suffering time while their weapons caught up with the old inflated damage. We know this hasn't been the happiest change while Warrior weapons caught up to the new itemization strategy, but similar to the armor reduction for Rogues, it's something we need to stand firm on for the overall balance of the game.
    That all said, I'm happy to let Warriors know we have reached the point that their weapons have caught up to the itemization curve. We will be evaluating the balance of Warriors within new content and are very optimistic that they have come back in line and their progression will continue as intended from here out!

    Specifically regarding the recently released Arcane Swords: The Immortal Corruption Blade has greater damage than the Dragon Hunter Sword. This is evident by seeing your Damage value as higher when you're equipping. The DPS of the weapon appears lower only because the attack speed of the Dragon Hunter Sword is slightly faster than the Immortal Corruption Blade. I double checked and can assure you the Immortal Corruption Blade has greater base damage, which will reflect in your abilities as well as basic attacks.

    Putting the Spank in your Tank
    -Vroom
    Thank you vroom for this post. Alot of what you said makes alot of sense. I agree with many of the points. However, why does the new shield weapon have such pitiful armor? It has less armor than the old aegis shield? You want us to be tanky correct? Well prove it. Why come out with an inferior armor arcane shield weapon compared to a old mythic aegis weapon. You don't give us enough armor then we wont survive underhaul and we wont survive onslaught of damage by dps class in pvp. Take away our damage but give use our armor. Don't take away both.

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    yeah removing armor makes no sense...i honestly could care less about damage removal, but the armor ? kinda confused��

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    I would also like to point out that I think you guys are misinterpreting the damage gain from warriors as coming from base stats and skill damage. This is completely untrue. The progression in terms of basic stats and base damage/skill damage for warrior weapons has been on a logical and good curve. Instead what is OP and causing our damage to have way surpassed what you want it to be is because of the OP Proc of the aegis (pve) and the dragon hunter arcane sword (PVP). I repeat it is the OP proc that gave us too much damage output. So what do you guys do? You nerf our basic stats of the new weapons and also gave us a proc that ensures it was not overpowering (thats a double whammy).......That is not the way to go about it. This will cause alot of imbalance later in the game. I suggest you guys bite the bullet and say you messed up and nerf the aegis and arcane sword procs or at least change its mechanics so it is not abused. Im tired of suffering and not getting new cool progression of arcane weapons because you guys messed up. This season has been boring as heck with no worthwhile new weapons to play with as a warrior.
    Last edited by Midievalmodel; 07-01-2016 at 12:38 AM.

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    Taking the armor away makes no sense to me either, lvl31 mythic Vigilant Pavise of Fitness gives 247 amor, 25lvls later and we see the lvl56 (Arcane) Aegis with 53 armor more than the lvl31 (Mythic) Vigilant, and 74 armor less than the (Mythic) Aegis.

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    Seriously STG please go back to the drawing board. Ask us for advice. It wont kill you to ask for advice before you release weapons. If you ran ur numbers and felt oh wow damage output of warriors are too high. Don't blindly nerf stuff when you guys barely play the game and don't know the intricacy of the games to make a sound decision on weapon stats. Ask us.....before you put out content. We could of enlightened you as to what specifically caused warrior damage output to be too high (aegis and dragon hunter proc....not the darn base stats) so you can fix what is broken instead of globally and blindly nerfing everything.
    Last edited by Midievalmodel; 07-01-2016 at 12:51 AM.

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    I have some questions:
    Does arcane shield taunt mobs then DMG proc?
    Does new arcane sword stun bosses using charged attack?

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    Neither of the weapons come close to replacing my aegis, she been with me for 7 months <3
    Last edited by Eatdamage; 07-01-2016 at 02:26 AM.

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    Stun removed in ,normal" mode with the new sword definitely makes me stick with the old. Perhaps if prices go down a lot lot lot more I buy one just for fun and testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VROOMIGoRealFast View Post
    Hey guys,

    I've seen questions come up about Warrior weapons a bit with the new expansion and wanted to give some clarity and history on Warriors in AL. In the past there were seasons where Warriors felt weak in AL PvE. Their level of tankiness wasn't needed to survive in maps, they had issues taunting and keeping aggro of enemies, and their damage output didn't match up with with other classes. This resulted in Warriors slowing down parties and being shunned. Due to issues trying to solve the problems of survivability being needed and aggro, the most viable solution was to increase the damage output of Warriors in an attempt to bring them closer to other classes. As you've seen this brought more viability to Warriors in some respects, but really just made them semi-Rogues with a lot more hp, which caused its own issues.

    With the Underhul expansion we have re-evaluated the classes and their itemization, resulting in the Rogue armor changes as well as the dagger/bow and staff/gun changes. When looking at Warriors we addressed their core issues again and have been able to make our intended corrections to both taunt, and the need for Warriors in maps as a tank. Having fixed these issues for the Warriors, the previous damage inflation they gained left them too far above other classes, and it was time to remove that artificial inflation now that Warriors could assume their intended role. While I agree with players that the weapon procs had a large impact on it, the problem stemmed all the way from the base item stats. Warrior weapons were often given a lot of extra damage to make up for their core issues.

    With the weapons in the Underhul expansion we have removed the artificially inflated damage stats for Warrior weapons, and they are now following along the same item progression plan that Rogues and Sorcerers are following. This did mean Warriors had a little extra suffering time while their weapons caught up with the old inflated damage. We know this hasn't been the happiest change while Warrior weapons caught up to the new itemization strategy, but similar to the armor reduction for Rogues, it's something we need to stand firm on for the overall balance of the game.
    That all said, I'm happy to let Warriors know we have reached the point that their weapons have caught up to the itemization curve. We will be evaluating the balance of Warriors within new content and are very optimistic that they have come back in line and their progression will continue as intended from here out!

    Specifically regarding the recently released Arcane Swords: The Immortal Corruption Blade has greater damage than the Dragon Hunter Sword. This is evident by seeing your Damage value as higher when you're equipping. The DPS of the weapon appears lower only because the attack speed of the Dragon Hunter Sword is slightly faster than the Immortal Corruption Blade. I double checked and can assure you the Immortal Corruption Blade has greater base damage, which will reflect in your abilities as well as basic attacks.

    Putting the Spank in your Tank
    -Vroom
    Can you me explain how to use the aegis? I dont understand the take damage percentage thing to explode. I barely see it explode, its the total opposite for the old glintstone aegis. The new aegis needs a review in their functionality cause to wait for 70% and then 40% to see the proc is kinda useless. It's an arcane weapon please make it work, make it work.

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  20.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midievalmodel View Post
    Thank you vroom for this post. Alot of what you said makes alot of sense. I agree with many of the points. However, why does the new shield weapon have such pitiful armor? It has less armor than the old aegis shield? You want us to be tanky correct? Well prove it. Why come out with an inferior armor arcane shield weapon compared to a old mythic aegis weapon. You don't give us enough armor then we wont survive underhaul and we wont survive onslaught of damage by dps class in pvp. Take away our damage but give use our armor. Don't take away both.
    I reviewed the Glintstone Aegis and it appears that it was given a large amount of extra armor, much more than it should have had, as another attempt to increase Warrior usefulness. This is another side effect of bringing Warriors in line, to remove the boosted stats that were added to fix core problems. In current content we feel Warriors have the armor needed to survive and sustain fights, so armor values won't be buffed, but will be increasing naturally with gear progression from this point forward, much like the damage on weapons.

    I appreciate the feedback and again we do acknowledge the strength of some Warrior procs and how they've attributed to this problem. While we do not plan to retroactively reduce the power of these procs, we are taking their effects into consideration when creating new weapon procs. The Glintstone Aegis was designed to overcome Warrior issues by giving them an enhanced form of damage as well as a reliable taunting mechanism. The Dragon Hunter Sword gave Warriors reliable crowd control when it procced as well as a heavy damage increase. Again, now that we have addressed the core issues with the Warrior, we no longer have to try to solve these problems by inflating Warrior stats. These procs do take the Warrior's base stats into their formulas, so having more base damage than necessary also means the procs are doing more damage than necessary.
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    Beetle armor and helmet of assault give me 200 armor each. that is cool :P




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    Quote Originally Posted by VROOMIGoRealFast View Post
    I reviewed the Glintstone Aegis and it appears that it was given a large amount of extra armor, much more than it should have had, as another attempt to increase Warrior usefulness. This is another side effect of bringing Warriors in line, to remove the boosted stats that were added to fix core problems. In current content we feel Warriors have the armor needed to survive and sustain fights, so armor values won't be buffed, but will be increasing naturally with gear progression from this point forward, much like the damage on weapons.

    I appreciate the feedback and again we do acknowledge the strength of some Warrior procs and how they've attributed to this problem. While we do not plan to retroactively reduce the power of these procs, we are taking their effects into consideration when creating new weapon procs. The Glintstone Aegis was designed to overcome Warrior issues by giving them an enhanced form of damage as well as a reliable taunting mechanism. The Dragon Hunter Sword gave Warriors reliable crowd control when it procced as well as a heavy damage increase. Again, now that we have addressed the core issues with the Warrior, we no longer have to try to solve these problems by inflating Warrior stats. These procs do take the Warrior's base stats into their formulas, so having more base damage than necessary also means the procs are doing more damage than necessary.

    Immortal Aegis has 136.6dps, Why don't STS takes away dps back to 117.3 which is the lvl46 Aegis, and give us more armor? I mean armor for dps and dmg trade. Because if what i want is to be tanky, sure as hell I wont use millions in the Arcane Aegis that has less armor, rather buying the lvl46 Aegis, with a fair dps and dmg and way more armor than Arcane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VROOMIGoRealFast View Post
    I reviewed the Glintstone Aegis and it appears that it was given a large amount of extra armor, much more than it should have had, as another attempt to increase Warrior usefulness. This is another side effect of bringing Warriors in line, to remove the boosted stats that were added to fix core problems. In current content we feel Warriors have the armor needed to survive and sustain fights, so armor values won't be buffed, but will be increasing naturally with gear progression from this point forward, much like the damage on weapons.

    I appreciate the feedback and again we do acknowledge the strength of some Warrior procs and how they've attributed to this problem. While we do not plan to retroactively reduce the power of these procs, we are taking their effects into consideration when creating new weapon procs. The Glintstone Aegis was designed to overcome Warrior issues by giving them an enhanced form of damage as well as a reliable taunting mechanism. The Dragon Hunter Sword gave Warriors reliable crowd control when it procced as well as a heavy damage increase. Again, now that we have addressed the core issues with the Warrior, we no longer have to try to solve these problems by inflating Warrior stats. These procs do take the Warrior's base stats into their formulas, so having more base damage than necessary also means the procs are doing more damage than necessary.
    Vroom I'm sorry but I am still not understanding why there is no progression in our base stats for new arcane weapons. You admitted that its the OP proc of the old aegis and arcane sword that has caused all the issues and you also admitted you wont fix or change any of that. So then those old weapons causing imbalance is a mute point since you wont do anything about it. So explain to me why you are coming out with extremely nerfed and underpowered new arcane weapons? That wont change any of the overpowered damage output curve issues of the old weapons because the root of the problem was the old aegis proc and dragon hunter sword proc. So instead you come out with ridiculously bad new arcane weapons for warriors? Giving us progression of base stats on the new arcane weapons wont affect the power output curve of warriors much because you have now appropriately chose a more controlled non op proc for new weapons.

    In essence you nerfing the proc of the new arcane weapons was a very good direction. But you guys nerfing the base stats for new arcane weapons is misdirected energy and idea into fixing something that wasn't broke. You telling us that the higher the weapon damage the more powerful the proc would be on our new weapons is a scapegoat I'm sorry to say. You could of easily gave use better base stats and decrease the damage output of the proc of the new arcane weapons to ensure its balanced and not overpowered.

    You also admitted that the old aegis proc gave too much armor stack because of its proc and that was the reason why you felt it was too overpowered armor wise. Well the new arcane shield for warriors do not have any armor stack in the proc. So you have now essentially fixed that issue with the new arcane shield. So why on earth did you guys decide to give us even less armor base stats with the new arcane shield compared to old aegis?


    Also please go run elite underhaul map 2 and 3 for me "without" anti-gnome set and come back and tell me if you think warriors have enough armor.....You telling us that you think warriors have enough armor is proof positive you don't play this game and are making assumptions.
    Last edited by Midievalmodel; 07-01-2016 at 04:53 PM.

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    Having used new arc sword I can honestly say it's useless, why give us weapon with ten less str 4% less crit less bonus dmg less DPS weak proc over a weapon ten levels less, for 20 more base dmg..at least make it comparable to old weapon..make str the same or put crit back...I feel we are being the scape goats for previous mistakes...why would any warr want these new weapons?..

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    I'm honestly happy to hear tanks cry now, it's been a long time since this happended lol

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    U mean since Lev 46 arc sword came out, that hasn't been that long, before then warrs were not required anywhere, mages is where it's at now, lol

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    I totally agree with crackerz, i bought the new sword for 6m nd it is totally useless, the previous sword its totally better, i feel like i bought a leggendary sword for 6m lol, pls vrrom go vs a rogue or mage with new arcanew eapons, nd then tell me if its balanced, go try run pve new weapon useless there too.

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