PVP Updates: Proposed Balance Changes PART 2 (7/22/2016)

[Plqgue]

There needs to be a limit to the certain amount of damage a class can deal, even the "Glass Cannons" need to have a cap on their damage output. The problem is they don't survive within a clash, how is increasing damage going to help them survive? They'll still die to 3 mages whilst unshielded.


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They aren't meant to survive everything..... that's the point of the armor Nerf in the first place rogues were one shorting everything and getting 10-20kills per death and that's not what a glass cannon is while I agree on a damage cap I don't agree with increasing armor

[Anyona]

this is simply not true in any case. 1 hit %50 tank healt who are you fighting naked tank?
there is almost no window of taking down a tank with rogue, timed heals, juggers, pools etc when class stack occurs or mage and warr gets combined. Are we even playing same game man?

It is certainly the case, a tank without nekro or jugg can be taken down to 50% with aimed shot. I don't believe we are playing the same game.


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[Anyona]

They aren't meant to survive everything..... that's the point of the armor Nerf in the first place rogues were one shorting everything and getting 10-20kills per death and that's not what a glass cannon is while I agree on a damage cap I don't agree with increasing armor

I don't agree with increasing their armor. I believe they should have increased damage reduction on razor and a heal which actually benefits the team.


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[Zeus]

And where did I call any rogue retarded? It's true even with a buff rogues would still cry.

But that doesn't mean I'm against making the class effective without making it overpowerful

Smart rogues wouldn't cry. Just as there's not so smart sorcerers, there's also not so smart rogues. However, if very experienced players are saying this buff will suck, it's for a reason...and that reason is not out of greed. I personally do not expect to kill every class in the game. That's why I don't really complain if a warrior kills a rogue. In other MMOs, that is supposed to happen. The warrior is supposed to kill the rogue. However, in other MMOs, sorcerers are not so powerful where they remove the need for the rogue class. That's currently what's happening and what this proposed change will not fix.

That being said, Anyona does have a point where rogues will still die and if you increase the damage output too much, then rogues will be one hitting players. That is a legitimate concern, but if we do not want to increase survivability, then this is the only path that one can take. I would still personally prefer the damage over glass part of the game though. The reason being is that if you increase the defense of rogues too much, then the 1v1 balance is thrown off. I for one, don't really care about 1v1 because its a such a small aspect of the game I do not think it really matters.

[Zynzyn]

Having read several posts, I would like to make another suggestion. Feel free to post your opinion on this.

Perhaps this Nox tweak may work (lets test it):

A. If the ticking damage (DOT) from one Nox attack is noticeable enough (cannonify it please)
and,
B. If CURSE IMMUNITY is implemented. Let there be a gap between 1 curse and the next, like freeze, stun immunity etc. This might discourage curse-mage stacking as well.

[Anyona]

yea man i agree rogue is fine as it is, we should be happy yay 2x poison, go curse!
buff the mages please they are useless and tanks should be more solid and should do more dmg people stealing their kills!

I have never said I want tanks or mages buffed but please explain how increased damage will help a rogue survive within a clash? The problem is the "glass" part of the class. Whilst I still believe their should still be "glass", it currently stands that the "glass" is already cracked before anything hits the rogue.


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[Plqgue]

I don't agree with increasing their armor. I believe they should have increased damage reduction on razor and a heal which actually benefits the team.


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That's actually a great idea

[Zeus]

Having read several posts, I would like to make another suggestion. Feel free to post your opinion on this.

Perhaps this Nox tweak will work:

A. If the ticking damage (DOT) from once Nox attack is noticeable enough (cannonify it please)
and,
B. If CURSE IMMUNITY is implemented. This might discourage curse-mage stacking as well.

The nox can work if these two are implemented, but the damage would probably need to be a 2.5-3x increase. The 2x increase just will not cut it, especially with all the HoTs going around.

[Ireliaa]

That being said, Anyona does have a point where rogues will still die and if you increase the damage output too much, then rogues will be one hitting players. That is a legitimate concern, but if we do not want to increase survivability, then this is the only path that one can take. I would still personally prefer the damage over glass part of the game though. The reason being is that if you increase the defense of rogues too much, then the 1v1 balance is thrown off. I for one, don't really care about 1v1 because its a such a small aspect of the game I do not think it really matters.

I told this before, 1 aim shot deaths arent fun it also eliminates high gear wins factor thats why i offered the damage reduction of other clases, but a horde atacks me if i say something like that

[Ireliaa]

I don't agree with increasing their armor. I believe they should have increased damage reduction on razor and a heal which actually benefits the team.


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so you wanna make a mage out of rogue? what you describe is a mage

[Plqgue]

Smart rogues wouldn't cry. Just as there's not so smart sorcerers, there's also not so smart rogues. However, if very experienced players are saying this buff will suck, it's for a reason...and that reason is not out of greed. I personally do not expect to kill every class in the game. That's why I don't really complain if a warrior kills a rogue. In other MMOs, that is supposed to happen. The warrior is supposed to kill the rogue. However, in other MMOs, sorcerers are not so powerful where they remove the need for the rogue class. That's currently what's happening and what this proposed change will not fix.

That being said, Anyona does have a point where rogues will still die and if you increase the damage output too much, then rogues will be one hitting players. That is a legitimate concern, but if we do not want to increase survivability, then this is the only path that one can take. I would still personally prefer the damage over glass part of the game though. The reason being is that if you increase the defense of rogues too much, then the 1v1 balance is thrown off. I for one, don't really care about 1v1 because its a such a small aspect of the game I do not think it really matters.

With a small damage buff and damage reduction buff to razor as anyona stated it would make the class extremely useful
Add into account the class restriction that's so needed and there shouldn't be any problems finding a spot in a clash for a rogue

[Zeus]

so you wanna make a mage out of rogue? what you describe is a mage

Perhaps it's just that sorcerers do way too much damage in the first place. The way I look at it is developers have these options:

1. Make Nox Poison Immune to Curse + Increase Nox Poison to 3x. That would mean it is doing roughly 550 damage per tick.
2. Increase rogue survivability via small damage buff and damage reduction buff to razor.
3. Nerf Sorcerer Damage
4. Increase Rogue Aimed Shot capabilities

With a small damage buff and damage reduction buff to razor as anyona stated it would make the class extremely useful
Add into account the class restriction that's so needed and there shouldn't be any problems finding a spot in a clash for a rogue

VroomIGOfast stated in chatbox last night that he does not want to implement class restriction because it hinders people from playing together.

[Plqgue]

Perhaps it's just that sorcerers do way too much damage in the first place.



VroomIGOfast stated in chatbox last night that he does not want to implement class restriction because it hinders people from playing together.

That's seriously the only way for true balance because without the restriction nothing Will change it will still be a whole bunch if tank/mage stacks no matter how they buff rogue.

[Ireliaa]

Perhaps it's just that sorcerers do way too much damage in the first place.

be careful an army of mage gonna atack you for this, that words are Blasphemy

[Zeus]

That's seriously the only way for true balance because without the restriction nothing Will change it will still be a whole bunch if tank/mage stacks no matter how they buff rogue.

I agree. I think once you implement class restriction, people will use all three classes more and eventually with time, we will go back to balanced PvP. The best thing about this is that developers will no longer have to continue buffing and nerfing classes as gear changes.

[reiewaun]

Smart rogues wouldn't cry. Just as there's not so smart sorcerers, there's also not so smart rogues. However, if very experienced players are saying this buff will suck, it's for a reason...and that reason is not out of greed. I personally do not expect to kill every class in the game. That's why I don't really complain if a warrior kills a rogue. In other MMOs, that is supposed to happen. The warrior is supposed to kill the rogue. However, in other MMOs, sorcerers are not so powerful where they remove the need for the rogue class. That's currently what's happening and what this proposed change will not fix.

That being said, Anyona does have a point where rogues will still die and if you increase the damage output too much, then rogues will be one hitting players. That is a legitimate concern, but if we do not want to increase survivability, then this is the only path that one can take. I would still personally prefer the damage over glass part of the game though. The reason being is that if you increase the defense of rogues too much, then the 1v1 balance is thrown off. I for one, don't really care about 1v1 because its a such a small aspect of the game I do not think it really matters.

Agreed on the part wars kill rogues, we rogues we ok with it and can live with it,what we can't bear is dying from a mage team which hypothetical we are supposed to win.
Want my suggestion sts?No nerfs no nothing
NEW ARMOR AND HELM WITH GOOD AMOUNT OF HP AND ARMOR!!!
Everyone will be fine, if other classes still cry change game, we are still using 46 underhul set,and we on. 56 lvl cap 4 months now. Jesus!!!!!
On my war in bought new helm and armor with great amount of armor.
If that's not the solution what is it??? We missing survivability, I am fine with my damage

[Anyona]

Perhaps it's just that sorcerers do way too much damage in the first place.



VroomIGOfast stated in chatbox last night that he does not want to implement class restriction because it hinders people from playing together.

Possibly but then if damage is nerfed for mages then they should look at how only two skills provide an acceptable AoE and only one is used within PvP zones

so you wanna make a mage out of rogue? what you describe is a mage

Definitely not but increased damage does not help rogues in a clash and I believe that this is the main focus of the thread.



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[Ireliaa]

That's seriously the only way for true balance because without the restriction nothing Will change it will still be a whole bunch if tank/mage stacks no matter how they buff rogue.

ofc unless they nerf the other 2 in balanced way but again ofc you are all against this

[Plqgue]

I agree. I think once you implement class restriction, people will use all three classes more and eventually with time, we will go back to balanced PvP. The best thing about this is that developers will no longer have to continue buffing and nerfing classes as gear changes.

Exactly my point with class restriction all three classes would be viable and we wouldn't have to go through these long threads weekly about what this or that class needs

[Zeus]

ofc unless they nerf the other 2 in balanced way but again ofc you are all against this

I don't think warrior needs a nerf, buddy. They don't stop the need for another class in battle. Yes, the sword is a bit OP but that's okay because in a 1v1 scenario, rogue is supposed to lose to warrior. A warrior stack can still be defeated with a smart DPS. So, that doesn't make it the biggest issue for me at least.