(My Opinion) On What The Next Cap Should Entail (PVP)

[Hoplons]

Endgame PVP has seen better days, and there is ways to fix it, make it more fun. Here are some suggestions.

First off, this new endgame coming with L110 should be proc-free, for lack of a better term, they are annoying. Something about this endgame is just kind of confusing/all over the place, it doesnt seem very organized. I think as players what were looking for is a clean, BALANCED, Fair PVP. What this means is no 5 minute long fights (105) and no 2 second fights (100). All things considered it should be a close replication of 76 PVP, No Procs. I like being able to nuke other mages, and then having to use skill against birds and bears. We should also consider a fix for enchantments in this new endgame, either making less enchantment slots or debuffing them so if a player without them decides to join, theyd still have a chance. Let me know what you guys think.

[Draebatad]

Cinco has already promised that there won't be "any silly procs" for the 110 cap.

Many of us have already discussed and suggested, that the PvP balance should feel like that of one of the older popular caps, and 76 was among those favorites.

As we were also discussing on PL Party Zone community discord server last night:

If one of the approaches to balancing 110 PvP includes class restricted sets, then I would like to suggest that the class restrictions apply only in PvP zones, meaning that any class could wear any 110 set in PvE zones. Lots of farmers enjoy the use of ranged weapons, and this compromise seems good.

Alternatively, as Crybabyalert was saying yesterday, there could be two end game sets. One for PvP without procs and with class restrictions. And one with procs and without class restrictions for PvE. Procs are really enjoyable in PvE.

We've also suggested that enchantments be modified to be active only in PvE zones and disabled in PvP zones. Alternatively, enchantments could be left as-is for now for all existing levels, but disabled in PvP zones for the 110 cap (but enabled in the 110 PvE maps). There's many ways to approach this and see what works.

As I was also saying on Jan 23:

In regards to enchantments, perhaps just as a temporary trial run, it would be nice to see them made active in PvE zones only, along with elite rings being made L76+ and stat guns being made PvE only as well, just to see how the activity levels of PvP respond to those changes. If the response is positive, and the activity levels increase, and old players return to their favorite PvP twink zones, then we just might be onto something.

At this point in the game, I think a little trial and error is worth the risk to see what is truly better for and helpful to PL. No harm in a little tweaking to make everything just about perfect.

Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[Hoplons]

i like this idea Drae, so youre saying 2 different weapon drops for each class one with proc for pve and one without for pvp, why dont we take this a step further and make 2 different sets? one enchantable only used in pve, and one without enchants only for pvp?

[Draebatad]

i like this idea Drae, so youre saying 2 different weapon drops for each class one with proc for pve and one without for pvp, why dont we take this a step further and make 2 different sets? one enchantable only used in pve, and one without enchants only for pvp?

Thanks. As one suggestion, I said two different sets.

...there could be two end game sets. One for PvP without procs and with class restrictions. And one with procs and without class restrictions for PvE.

As for enchantments, they could either be removed from all PvP zones in the game L1-110 even if temporarily, or they could be left as-is at all existing levels, and as far as the new campaign goes, active only in the new PvE maps.


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[Hoplons]

Thanks. As one suggestion, I said two different sets.



As for enchantments, they could either be removed from all PvP zones in the game L1-110 even if temporarily, or they could be left as-is at all existing levels, and as far as the new campaign goes, active only in the new PvE maps.


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

Sets and classes could be the most balanced ever, and it wouldnt make a difference, what we need is enchantments gone from pvp, it will not be successful until then.

[Cinco]

There is normal gear which can be Enchanted and there is Honor Gear which cannot. Play with Honor Gear if you don’t want enchantments in PvP. Play with normal gear if you do.



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[Idevour]

There is normal gear which can be Enchanted and there is Honor Gear which cannot. Play with Honor Gear if you don’t want enchantments in PvP. Play with normal gear if you do.



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Can we get some honor ctf maps then?

[Snacking]

There is normal gear which can be Enchanted and there is Honor Gear which cannot. Play with Honor Gear if you don’t want enchantments in PvP. Play with normal gear if you do.



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Cinco,
What you don’t understand is there is no substitute for real pvp.
Yes, honor arena is nice, but it just doesn’t feel the same. If you don’t at least nerf enchantments I promise you this game won’t last another year. Regardless of how good the next cap is. You cater too much to the rich, which is killing your own game.

[Cinco]

Can we get some honor ctf maps then?

Good idea for the upcoming cap content.


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[Cinco]

Cinco,
What you don’t understand is there is no substitute for real pvp.

Don’t see how Honor is not “real.” What do you mean?


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[Draebatad]

You're right, Snacking. Honor gear feels nothing like end-game, and more like twink. That is why I shared a few good suggestions in post #2 of this topic, as ways to allow us to experience end-game PvP without enchantments or procs.

And when it comes to full Mythic sets with 4 enchantment slots, it becomes all the more "disenchanting", in all honesty, simply due to the excessive costs and odds of gambling not 3 but 4 slots per enchantable set item with full mythic sets.

There's some great ways to test out a divergence from this path that we're on right now. In the long run, which path is going to make more revenue, and which path will shortchange that potential? Lots to think about here, and there's still time to have some fun with trying out ideas to gauge the effect of what is really going to make more money and more people happy.


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[Draebatad]

Don’t see how Honor is not “real.” What do you mean?

Yes, honor arena is nice, but it just doesn’t feel the same.

^ That is what he means. And I think we can all agree on that.


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[plpr]

Don’t see how Honor is not “real.” What do you mean?


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Put simply honor isn't how I think most people think pvp should be. On the outside it's good because it's simple and decently fair. But, it doesn't feel fun to play for long periods of time like old sets did. Where hours would fly by in minutes. If it was the saving Grace for pvp and people loved it then why does nobody play it? My answer is because it just isn't fun to play. Set vs Set fair(ish) fights at endgame is how pocket legends grew success in my opinion. I added fair(ish) Because no level has ever been completely fair but that doesn't matter as much because it can be tweaked After the core mechanics are flawless and most importantly Fun.

[Draebatad]

To get that end game or cap-specific 'feel' to honor gear, what about creating an honor-only set that has the same stats as the best 110 cap gear, obviously no enchantments, looks like crap and only works in the applicable honor maps? Same feel. Honor only. Adios to the twink vibe.


Links: Pocket Legends Reborn! /// PL Party Zone Discord Server

[Snacking]

Don’t see how Honor is not “real.” What do you mean?


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What I mean is nobody plays honor unless they set a game up with friends. The most active levels such as 30-40 are completely broken, but nobody plays honor at those levels because actual pvp maps are where everyone like to hang.
Regardless of if honor fixes / balances pvp, nobody is going to choose it over actual pvp along with the original pvp maps.

Ask the community how they feel about honor pvp being the substitute due to enchantments ruining our pvp experience. We are the ones playing after all.

[burntoutdex]

I really like Honour PvP, and i do think it is somewhat enjoyable compared to normal PvP which i found to be quite boring in recent years. Whilst i do think there needs to be some changes to its mechanics, honour is definitely a step in the right direction.

Personally, I think it is impossible to balance PvP since the addition of the new classes and nerfs, but i guess that is a whole other story.

I think the main reason people don't play honour PvP is because they have a misconstrued idea of what balanced PvP really is. I know when i play 35 honour that the majority of mages i kill complain about missing their skills or not being able to one-shot me. This is mainly due to the fact that honour requires you to lean more on your skill than your gear. I think this has led a lot of players to disregard honour because their class isn't overpowered and they are more often than not, unable to kill other players because no one set is overpowered.

Though, i agree - for whatever reason, honour PvP does not feel like the 'good old days' of PvP. Perhaps this is because the map is dark; perhaps it is because most of my friends had quit; perhaps it is because the gear is plain; perhaps it is because (ironically) every one complains about an 'imbalance' compared to normal PvP.

I still don't really see the point in having two arenas for PvP - why not just balance the main one and remove honour?

[Snacking]

why not just balance the main one and remove honour?

CINCO READ THIS.
Well the main focus of everything right now is end game. Which from a business point of view I understand because leveling up, and getting the best enchants on gear just rake in the platinum. I dont think they see that’s whats killing their game though.
They should find a way to balance low level without affecting the precious end-game that nobody plays.
I cannot stress this enough,
IF LOW LEVEL IS NOT FUN PLAYERS WILL NOT STAY.
Right now the game is so pay to win at high as well as low level no new players will even put thought to leveling up past maybe 30. Pvp is the most popular function of every single online game almost ever, and when you can’t even perform a basic game function without dumping money into a game, players won’t stay. Simply because pve at that level just does not supply what it used to. Back in the day if you had 10k you were rich, which is why players played pve. You actually worked for something and saw progress. Now, 10k couldn’t buy a torch. The least amount of gold required to play lvl10-27 pvp which is the most active at the moment is around 600-700k due to rovgs. That’s literally the rhe bare minimum to even compete and you will still be at an extreme disadvantage. Lvl30-40 which is the second most active pvp level requires a bare minimum of around 3m due to enchants.. and the pvp isn’t even good... I don’t want old pl back, I love the route you’ve taken. I love this game, and am praising you for what you do for us because I know you work hard. We just want you to listen to us. We want our fair, balanced pvp back, at all levels.
I’ve suggested many things in the past, such as class specific rings to buff each characters weakness, removing rovg, making enchantments dependent on level (for example the max enchants scale by the level of the ammy / ring / gear etc by the level of it.) but my ideas were merely skimmed over once again.

[XghostzX]

Don’t see how Honor is not “real.” What do you mean?


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I wrote about this a bit in another thread -- going to copy and paste:

The Arena of Honor. It seems that players prefer to earn their equipment from PvE, then use it directly in PvP maps. There's something about having two modes of PvP that evidently 'splits' the PvP community in two. Particularly during its adolescent stages, I tried encouraging more players to experience the Arena of Honor. However, many players demonstrated an affinity for boasting their newly obtained gear in the regular PvP maps (there is some psychological phenomenon about using the fresh, colorful new gear as opposed to the 'newbie' looking gear). Either way, the 'split' in PvPers has contributed to a perpetual mentality of: "Dang, looks like there aren't that many people online PvPing. Guess I'm gonna log off now."

While I personally believe that this is a ridiculous reason to not participate in the arena of honor, it's just too true. Honor PvP doesn't have that endgame feel to it -- it feels like twinking.

[Hoplons]

There is normal gear which can be Enchanted and there is Honor Gear which cannot. Play with Honor Gear if you don’t want enchantments in PvP. Play with normal gear if you do.



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I respect that, but honor does not feel the same, its something about being able to use endgame sets/forest fight and its hard to explain for sure, I think if enchantments were made just PVE they would definitely still have a future, maybe a solution is taking them out of pvp, and them buffing them up a little more so they are still relevant and booming.

[Hoplons]

There is normal gear which can be Enchanted and there is Honor Gear which cannot. Play with Honor Gear if you don’t want enchantments in PvP. Play with normal gear if you do.



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Youre keeping something in the game that literally no one wants, its killing the game, so your making a little extra money from it, theres other ways to do it that wont kill the game, we appreciate everything you do, but it seems like for every good thing that comes to PL, something detrimental to its success comes along with it. Like pur stats, no level restrictions on pvp, etc. if enchantments dont get removed ir debuffed in pvp, this game wont last another 5 months, and thats not an opinion, its ruining the game.