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Thread: All I Have Left to Say

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    Senior Member burntoutdex's Avatar
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    Default All I Have Left to Say

    To premise; Yes, I know the response this is likely to get is: "If you don't like the game, just quit." To which I am able to say I have. I just wanted to share some final thoughts about this game. I still have a lot left to say after my other post, in which I held back in some areas for fear of it becoming unprofessional. Though this may come across as an unadulterated rant to some, it comes from a place of caring, from the heart of someone who has been active in this community for longer than most left. So, with that out of the way, let's begin.

    I first downloaded this game in February of 2011; and, what immediately struck me during the tutorial was the simplicity and casual pick-up and play feel this game had..

    Little did I know it was far more complex than the tutorial led on.

    Still to this day, I vividly remember entering Balefort Castle Map 1 as a Level One because I thought it looked the coolest out of all the campaigns, before quickly getting one-hit over and over. I repeated this process a few times until a higher-level joined and recommended that I try Forest Haven instead. This higher-level quickly explained the ropes to me and helped me finish the first few levels of the old Forest Haven, which was far more difficult than it is now.

    I guess this leads me to my first point I'd like to address about the difficulty newer players have soloing entire campaigns after Alien Oasis, which, is in my opinion, where the game turns from casual to somewhat difficult.

    It has been mentioned countless times in recent months, but I guess it can't hurt to restate it here: why can't we have some new campaign-specific vanities added to each dungeon's loot-table to give all players an incentive to run these maps? This would help new-players tremendously because I know there are still some kind-hearted players out there who would help the newer players level up and give them advice on combos and gear. This addition would be nothing but a positive and multiple lists about what the vanities could include have been made (found here and here) - why have we not had a clear reason as to why this cannot be implemented?

    Perhaps the one problem I can foresee with this, which somewhat ties in with my next point is the potential for some of the immature elitist players to be rude to new players because they don't know what to do.

    This has been an ongoing problem for years now and is something that has never really been addressed. There have been attempts at resolving this issue in the past, such as the GoA program, but that never stuck around for various reasons. I think a lot of the hate and elitist behaviour towards some people in this game comes from one main reason: A lot of the ‘older’ community who were around for the ‘golden-age’ of PL have disagreed with a lot of changes made to this game and simply want to go back to what we once had. This causes these players to make hurtful comments towards newer players because they feel they are ‘superior’ to them due to their longevity with this game. I can’t lie and say I haven’t done this myself – we all have – and, I think it is something that needs to be addressed at some point. If I’m being honest, I have seen some extremely hurtful things said during these arguments – things that should get you perma-banned – yet, the report button doesn’t seem to help? Perhaps one way to address this is to make the inner-workings of the in-game report function more available? I’m sure if we were as a community made more aware of how it works that we could make better use of it and slowly weed out the people who are just downright toxic.

    This brings me to another, and, perhaps, controversial point. Why does this forum community get so little feedback on proper posts? Off the top of my head I could link about 20 or so posts that had brilliant suggestions that for the most part seemed as if they were ignored. Take WhoIsThis for example, who, is in my opinion, the most influential forumer to date. Of the 15 or so threads he made with suggestions, it seemed as if a fraction of them got a proper response. Why was this the case? I can understand that this forum gets a lot more dev interaction than other forums (the example used in the past has been the LoL Forums), and I can appreciate that. I just think that when it gets to the point where people can spend weeks writing single posts only to get a single reply that barely addresses the post it is clear that something needs to change. I don’t regret any of the time I spend writing posts, but I always get told that it “won’t be worth my time” to do so when it seems almost arbitrary which posts get proper responses. Being completely honest, it seems as if the threads thrown together in 40seconds get more of a reply than ones that take days, and in some cases, weeks to put together. Again, why is this the case?

    I really think this discourages a lot of players from making informative posts about this game, a lot of which could end up being really useful for the rest of this game’s lifespan. I have heard some excellent suggestions that never got posted simply because we never thought we would get the reply they were warranted.

    I guess the final thing I want to ask is nothing new, but I may as well repeat it again: where is this game road-mapped for now? Originally, it was my understanding that the final cap was going to be L100. However, we are past that now and I think a lot of us are curious as to what is planned for the future. Is there a final goal in mind, or is this game simply existing to generate revenue out of the few remaining players?

    The rest of the things that I feel need to be addressed are in my other thread found here. The main issue is still the economy, and that problem is only going to increase with the more gold events this game gets.

    And, done.
    Last edited by burntoutdex; 05-23-2019 at 01:58 AM.

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  3. #2
    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Nicely said

    About the campaign-specific vanities, I very much agree. I think it is a brilliant idea and I never understood why it has never been addressed. I think it could quite literally redefine PL's state.

    In regards to dev responses, I can understand the challenges of that now. Cinco may not be responding to every thread, but he is certainly listening and keeping an eye out. I can understand that being a one-man team for multiple Legends games is no easy task, but of course, a balance should be achieved to keep fresh ideas and fruitful exchanges enduring.

    I can't imagine Cinco would want to deliberately share the roadmap for PL, partially due to the fact that he's probably not entirely sure of where the game's headed, partially because he doesn't want to discourage the player-base with any bad news. But I, for one, would appreciate the full transparency.

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    Senior Member burntoutdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    Nicely said

    About the campaign-specific vanities, I very much agree. I think it is a brilliant idea and I never understood why it has never been addressed. I think it could quite literally redefine PL's state.

    In regards to dev responses, I can understand the challenges of that now. Cinco may not be responding to every thread, but he is certainly listening and keeping an eye out. I can understand that being a one-man team for multiple Legends games is no easy task, but of course, a balance should be achieved to keep fresh ideas and fruitful exchanges enduring.

    I can't imagine Cinco would want to deliberately share the roadmap for PL, partially due to the fact that he's probably not entirely sure of where the game's headed, partially because he doesn't want to discourage the player-base with any bad news. But I, for one, would appreciate the full transparency.
    I agree, I think farmable vanities would definitely be a leap in the right direction.

    On the notion of dev responses, I think you are correct - perhaps a lot more is happening behind the scenes in regards to player feedback than we are aware. However, I do think some transparency in the matter could go a long long way; as it's not like this issue hasn't been raised multiple times in the past. I agree though, it is no easy task running multiple Legends' games on your own, and I think Cinco is doing much better than we seem to give him credit for.

    As for the roadmap, I pretty much agree: assuming there is one, sharing it is not a necessity, but transparency in the matter would be appreciated.

    Thanks for the kind words and taking time to respond, Ghost

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    Get some reallife boi

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    Senior Member NukeDragon's Avatar
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    I think there needs to be more of a story behind the pve aspect of the game. At the beginning I could see the story, now I just play the maps. Maybe a suggestion I would add is that the devs make a new story line up since the other I suppose had been completed.

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    I like the idea of campaign-specific vanities it would be a nice addition, and wouldnt even necissarily have to be completely new items. Maybe already existant ones that are available only through that campaign but a vanity form of it.

    As far as devs responding, i know cinco will atleast read most posts on the forums. But hes also gotta watch all the legend games so its understandable if he doesnt reply to every single one.

    As for a roadmap, its fairly common practice to make even a rough roadmap available for your company/game. And its honestly suprising to me that weve never seen even a REALLY rough one appear from STS. Many companies will just be extremely vague if they dont know what they are specifically doing (ex. Fix bugs/Add Content for level cap). Then you have some companies that say specifically what the goals are. I would say the likely reason at this point for no roadmap is there simply isnt one. After they initially stopped updates at level 76 i doubt they ever thought theyd continue and now its kinda made on the fly with mostly last minute plans (all just an assumption).

    And there is a storyline in pve....ish...but its definetly not as well put together or thought out as it used to be. Now its just kinda thrown together for those who want to just fly through pve. Dont get me wrong, i love pve more than pvp and always will i even like a decent amount of the newer maps. Just a comparison tho

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    I am all for campaign specific vanity! It would totally help the new players grind out some levels around the 40-60 area where solo (pet-less) playing becomes difficult. I believe the biggest issue as far as sts is concerned is putting the time in to create items for us, and ways of implementing them that are logical and match story lines. I've got a thread about already existing items in the game that I think would be perfect for new vanities. Here's the thread

    https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ed-suggestions!
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    Senior Member MageFFA's Avatar
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    The game won't change. It's pretty much a waste of time to even give any sort of suggestions to the dev when they refuse to listen anyways. When you refuse to patch a class that everyone says is OP but is also a main character if not the main character, but a couple months ago if not a year you decided to nerf a side character 2 times fatally, then the game is not worth playing anymore. When you refuse to remove and patch a serious issue in twink such as elites and enchants dispite everyone quitting twink which is also your biggest contributor when it comes to making money. Then you simply don't know what you're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    The game won't change. It's pretty much a waste of time to even give any sort of suggestions to the dev when they refuse to listen anyways. When you refuse to patch a class that everyone says is OP but is also a main character if not the main character, but a couple months ago if not a year you decided to nerf a side character 2 times fatally, then the game is not worth playing anymore. When you refuse to remove and patch a serious issue in twink such as elites and enchants dispite everyone quitting twink which is also your biggest contributor when it comes to making money. Then you simply don't know what you're doing.
    My Opinion:Everyone's game experience is different. The people who are still playing are doing so for a reason. Twink pvp is just as important as endgame pve in terms of the players and game quality. However from the devs standings, endgame content is the moneymaker that gets the most ppl to buy plat. They dont utterly ignore us, they have to see value in any time put into any game in order to act on it. Their resources are clearly limited, and if we can help guide them to content we want and will possibly pay for, we should communicate this as openly as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    The game won't change. It's pretty much a waste of time to even give any sort of suggestions to the dev when they refuse to listen anyways. When you refuse to patch a class that everyone says is OP but is also a main character if not the main character, but a couple months ago if not a year you decided to nerf a side character 2 times fatally, then the game is not worth playing anymore. When you refuse to remove and patch a serious issue in twink such as elites and enchants dispite everyone quitting twink which is also your biggest contributor when it comes to making money. Then you simply don't know what you're doing.
    I don’t see how twink pvp could be the main contributor for revenue, it takes no money at all to get from level 1 - 22 (the most active level for twink pvp) as you can do it very easily in less than an hour. Can you explain this more please?

    I also don’t agree with your statement about the dev team not knowing what they’re doing. They’ve had this game running for 9 years now and, as the player base has fallen so heavily, it is still running. Obviously they’re doing something right, otherwise nobody would play. Besides that, if you’d like to push for change, insulting an entire team of developers is not the way to go.
    Last edited by Waydog; 05-24-2019 at 11:23 PM.

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    Blogger Buchmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntoutdex View Post
    To premise; Yes, I know the response this is likely to get is: "If you don't like the game, just quit." To which I am able to say I have.
    Never put the tl;dr in the first sentence of the post lol.

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    Senior Member Congeniality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buchmeister View Post
    Never put the tl;dr in the first sentence of the post lol.
    I liked it personally. Maybe I'm an uncultured swine, but it made me really want to read it (more than already so). :P

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    Senior Member MageFFA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waydog View Post
    I don’t see how twink pvp could be the main contributor for revenue, it takes no money at all to get from level 1 - 22 (the most active level for twink pvp) as you can do it very easily in less than an hour. Can you explain this more please?

    I also don’t agree with your statement about the dev team not knowing what they’re doing. They’ve had this game running for 9 years now and, as the player base has fallen so heavily, it is still running. Obviously they’re doing something right, otherwise nobody would play. Besides that, if you’d like to push for change, insulting an entire team of developers is not the way to go.
    Twink brought in more revenue on multiple categories. Such as Plat based gear that litters Levels 10-50, 5usd per plat set so you could only guess how many was bought in the span of a single year throughout 2013-2014. Plat dungeons such as L.56-60 Fun House which people paid money for elixirs and access to try and farm glyphic gear and crafting pieces, tagged along with demonic which most used with plat. Same for 61-65 that people paid in the same way to get easier drops such as lilith set and dragon vanity set which required you to buy a pet which was what, 200 plat normally? That ring was used from 61-76 by many who didn't own 3pc. 66-70 gear same thing purchase, farm, craft. 71-76 same thing I can go on and on.

    Let's take just L.10-45 let's not add anything higher than 50. Faces mattered which was 10 plat each at the time. Same with rings before 3pc took over. These all contribute to twink revenue to Pl and I'm not even counting 2 plat respec. Endgame didn't become the main face of revenue until sts starting ripping us off in 80 cap which saw players spend 100 usd after 100 usd every dang update. Then we get into the 100 pure stat situation. It's endless.

    Just because the game is running doesn't mean it's active. In 2013 we received little to no updates and yet still had a player base that dwarfs post 2018 updated PL. So I would prefer returning to the days when sts always claimed to be done with PL while leaving the game perfectly intact then play this rubbish excuse for a game in its current state.

    Also why is it wrong for me to call out the devs yet right for the devs to insult their customers?
    Last edited by MageFFA; 05-26-2019 at 03:17 PM.

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    Senior Member MageFFA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphasemana View Post
    My Opinion:Everyone's game experience is different. The people who are still playing are doing so for a reason. Twink pvp is just as important as endgame pve in terms of the players and game quality. However from the devs standings, endgame content is the moneymaker that gets the most ppl to buy plat. They dont utterly ignore us, they have to see value in any time put into any game in order to act on it. Their resources are clearly limited, and if we can help guide them to content we want and will possibly pay for, we should communicate this as openly as possible.
    They only seem to be listening to those who follow the route of endgame only. I can remind everyone how easy the devs decided to listen to players who thought removing PvP restricts was in the best interest of the game and the company. It failed just like this idea of enchants and elites are failing right now. When we make counter arguments sts either ignores or insults us dispite many trying to reason with the devs.

    In terms of their resources I'll have to disagree. The devs stated themselves that they are closing down all their side games to focus on the Legend series so I don't understand their excuse for allowing this game to fall as hard as it is now. This game has 0 future as new players don't even have motivation to stay in the first place. Just my 2 cents though.

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    Senior Member burntoutdex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buchmeister View Post
    Never put the tl;dr in the first sentence of the post lol.
    It was more so that people understood what I'd written beforehand if they didn't wanna read any of it lol

    Also, hi Walie :]

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    Member Alphasemana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MageFFA View Post
    They only seem to be listening to those who follow the route of endgame only. I can remind everyone how easy the devs decided to listen to players who thought removing PvP restricts was in the best interest of the game and the company. It failed just like this idea of enchants and elites are failing right now. When we make counter arguments sts either ignores or insults us dispite many trying to reason with the devs.

    In terms of their resources I'll have to disagree. The devs stated themselves that they are closing down all their side games to focus on the Legend series so I don't understand their excuse for allowing this game to fall as hard as it is now. This game has 0 future as new players don't even have motivation to stay in the first place. Just my 2 cents though.
    Fair enough
    No doubt the pvp community seems to have much less of a voice in what goes on in the game. This is unfortunate as most of them have been here since the beginning. However, money talks. Maybe they need a way for pvpers to see a reason to bust out the credit card, so they can get more love from the dev team. Personally I have trouble seeing what a twink would be buying a ton of plat for aside from the enchantment system.... Endgamers are on the grind to fast cap, more likely to pay for plat maps, elixirs, week long events, locked chests, and also enchantments. It just seems to me the money is in endgame.
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