[Elixirs are ruining PL?]

[WoundedEagle]

Make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.

YES

[CrimsonTider]

Good topic bro and love the discussion! Here is my piece of the pie....

Everyone knows I am a pot-head. But I only use elixirs when I level. Job + family + football = limited PL time. Elixirs allow me to keep my toons at end cap without spending MONTHS leveling. My only issue with elixirs is Glut's problem: Booting. I never have, nor ever will, ask someone to pot up in my runs. Same cannot be said for others and it is sad. This kind of pressure should not be tollerated but I understand it is hard for STS to police. As most of us agree, I love to support the game I love, but to force others to do the same is wrong.

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

[Yvonnel]

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

Well said Crimson!

[Kakatoa91]

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

Well said Crimson!

Indeed, but some weakness still show up even with plat elixir...
Joined once a random game with a host plat elixir bear... he still didnt know how to use beckon/ taunt properly at lvl 58 i think. he dies, team dies and kept on yellin heal heal.
I prefered to autoboot myself that day b4 doin any comments, didnt feel somehow that guy was open for discussion.


Imo the rush on plat elixir will decrease later on. More normal games will takes place once greater numbers of non/low plat users get closer to nuri maps or majority of plat lvler finish max their avatars.
So im confident pace will drop soon in general.

Atm my bear just do taunt, beckon, 1/2 debuff, wait for bird/mage skills or stomp first and run fast but not to far to prepare other pack of mob while team finish cleaning. Quite tiring to anticipate and move quickly just to be in front of plat lvlers.
My pve kills didnt increase much coz of that.

[Zaltiar]

Indeed, but some weakness still show up even with plat elixir...
Joined once a random game with a host plat elixir bear... he still didnt know how to use beckon/ taunt properly at lvl 58 i think. he dies, team dies and kept on yellin heal heal.
I prefered to autoboot myself that day b4 doin any comments, didnt feel somehow that guy was open for discussion.


Imo the rush on plat elixir will decrease later on. More normal games will takes place once greater numbers of non/low plat users get closer to nuri maps or majority of plat lvler finish max their avatars.
So im confident pace will drop soon in general.

Atm my bear just do taunt, beckon, 1/2 debuff, wait for bird/mage skills or stomp first and run fast but not to far to prepare other pack of mob while team finish cleaning. Quite tiring to anticipate and move quickly just to be in front of plat lvlers.
My pve kills didnt increase much coz of that.

I might have gotten the same bear once or twice in a pug run. he ran in front, got in the middle of the mobs, beckoned and stomped.
every single mob flew in every direction possible. i asked kindly if he could beckon the mobs to walls/corners and stomp them back but he never listened lol
btw, its cause of awesome bears like you my birds kill count is rocketing haha

[StompArtist]

XP elixirs seem to be replacing mynas gen power leveling. We are seeing more and more high level characters with little skill (I am not directing this at all the elixir users). We soon will be facing the Elixir gen who have started on 3x elixirs at very low levels and just blasted through the game without any understanding of mechanics. A 3x elixir will allow you to acquire 60000xp in the time it would take for a non elixir user to get 20000. That is huge!

[Gluttony]

A 3x elixir will allow you to acquire 60000xp in the time it would take for a non elixir user to get 20000. That is huge!

There is also a 4x xp elixir, which seems to be what most are using, so 80k xp in the time a non-user would get 20k.

[drewcapu]

Another idea: make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.

I still wish elite campaigns were pot/elixir free.

I'd even go so far as to have elite campaigns make you unequip items that are above the level of the campaign.

[csb]

Nuri Hallow is actually quite hard without any elixirs. Mobs and some bosses hit very hard and have very high health. Compared to BS, which you can clear any maps within 5mins without any elixirs, you need more time and are more likely to wipe out in NH.
Everything has two sides, if they ban elixirs and everyone run NH without them, i bet you 10mil they will be flood of posts here complaining make dungeon easier or bring back elixirs lol.

Yes, NH is harder than BS. But, I regularly complete the levels with groups that are 57 and lower without any elixirs. I purposely look for the lowest level groups that are playing without elixirs. Sometimes they wipe, but sometimes they are very good. I won't join a group of potted 60's.

But my bear has never used a single elixir and is almost 57.

[Doubletime]

Good topic bro and love the discussion! Here is my piece of the pie....

Everyone knows I am a pot-head. But I only use elixirs when I level. Job + family + football = limited PL time. Elixirs allow me to keep my toons at end cap without spending MONTHS leveling. My only issue with elixirs is Glut's problem: Booting. I never have, nor ever will, ask someone to pot up in my runs. Same cannot be said for others and it is sad. This kind of pressure should not be tollerated but I understand it is hard for STS to police. As most of us agree, I love to support the game I love, but to force others to do the same is wrong.

Another point is for those who are overowered thru elixirs, their weaknesses will be exposed once they are through leveling and anf need to actually use their skills. This will effect the immediate future but, as always, those of us with knowledge of our class will find plenty of runs with other skilled players (especially with the new guild implementation.)

I think Crimson makes some very good points and I agree with him on many of them. I have used 4x pwnage elixers pretty much non-stop when I play since the campaign came out. Did it make going through the dungeons easier - absolutely. Did it allow me to level faster - absolutely (by the way I am still only 25% of the way to 61). Most of those that I run with in set groups also use some kind of trash can elixer a good bit of the time. And we typically blast through maps in a non-stop death train. Is it boring to me - no. Is it boring to my teammates - don't think so since we play for hours at a time. Do we lack good team skills or lack knowledge of how to play our toons -- in my opinion no way. You are always going to have power leveled toons and people who don't truely take advantage of the group skill dynamics. It is a reality of the game. I don't think elixers will ever have an effect on that one way or another. Either a player cares enough about his or her gaming skills to learn their toon or they don't. Those that don't typically aren't long term players and move on to other things.

I believe once the gear prices level out and more people hit 60, elixer use will go back to more normal levels. The cost of constantly potting eventually catches up to 95% of players. Those that don't are the exception, not the rule. So should STS change a game where the issue is really only with a small fraction of players -- that is up to them but personally I think the answer is no.

And I would never boot a player for using an elixer or not using an elixer. But some people will. Heck, there was a time when we were booted for wearing Big Luck. Booting for silly reasons will always be a part of the game. So develop a good friend list, join a good guild, play with your buddies and have fun. If you are booted for a silly reason -- then file that away and avoid those hosts in the future.

I still wish elite campaigns were pot/elixir free.

I'd even go so far as to have elite campaigns make you unequip items that are above the level of the campaign.

I think there is a fine line the Devs have to walk when creating elite level dungeons. I remember the Shadow Caves before the nerf and the freaking death trap they were for groups. I bet I had over 500 deaths just in those caves. And no one would go in them after the drop rate was nerfed.

Frozen nightmare was the same thing. Most people wouldn't go in that campaign or at least complete the 1000 snowball, 1000 pelt quests until they were far beyond the level the campaign was intended for. Then they allowed pot use and people started going back in it.

So from a development stand point, why spend all this time and energy creating a campaign people aren't going to play once the initial pink drop rate is nerfed? From experience, I think that is what would happen.

Just a different point of view to consider. I see where everyone is coming from. I just have a different perspective. Doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Just that there is another side to it. Hopefully, the Devs consider all of it and come up with what they feel is the best solution. Maybe it is a dungeon that has a mode where you can use pots, and a mode that doesn't. Maybe the drops are different. Maybe not. I think that the Devs are just trying to find a balance that makes the majority of players content. Because I don't think they will ever be able to please everyone all of the time.

And so ends the rambling of a pot-head bird -- the elixer kind.

DT

[Riccits]

Elixiers with plat are ruining the game... ppl cant play without anymore seems. we are way to spoiled of them. joining a party without any elxiers often ends in a fail...
i like to use them too sometimes.. but i dont like to use them bcz my party require it... i get often booted too bcz i dont use elixier. i can understand if i, as non elixer, would get the pink and the other was elixed an i leeched their power... but i hope those actually overusage of elixiers will cool down...

[Redbridge]

I suppose the test is how well do you do without them...

Are Elixirs the new power-levelling??? For another thread me feels...

[Lysdexic]

I'm 100% on creating new maps without any elixir usage... but don't nerf the elixirs. Sure there are some that plow through and don't learn a thing, but everyone seems to forget those who can't dedicate ample amounts of time to a game. I seldom get more than a few hours a week of gameplay for multiple reasons, my kids being the main one. There is no way I could have gone from 50-55 before Nuri's came out with the little amounts I can enjoy the game.

The one's who pot up and haven't learned a thing still won't learn a thing even if you strip away the boost. They're from the silver-spoon generation that gets 12th place trophies. They want the best and they want it now. Even if it was nerfed, they would find other ways to get there quickly and still not learn a thing. You cannot change those play-styles, nor force teach it to them... they have their own play-style already.

If you dislike someone's gameplay, boot them or get on with those who do have it. But definitely don't punish the rest of us just because of your personal opinions towards play-style. And on top of that, keep your arse out of STS's Kool-Aid... they deserve it and I'm glad to pay for it.

[ocagrevy]

If you dont want to use elix. Host your own game and boot ppl who are using them. Or now that we have guild function make a guild of non stat boosting players only. Simple resoultion. I dont see reason to complain when you have the ability to have things the way you want them.......

[Cytokinesis]

Another idea: make the Mount Fang campaign an elixir-free Elite Dungeon. We used to be able to use no pots, so since that changed, just take out elixirs! PL needs more of a challenge.

good idea! now it'll be a real "elite" dungeon

[Silentarrow]

Agreed with Mt. fang being elixr free!

Amount of plat spent on elixrs---- 0
Amount of gold spent on elixrs--- 500,000g+

[Register]

I really like this idea. Ill stay with a group with somebody that has an elixir but I wont be very happy. I usually dont even get to kill anything. Of course, ill probably buy the 7k elixir if its an established group.

But I dont think Mount Fang should be elixir free. I think 4x combo pots should be taken out. It was a well agreed thought that many people cannot buy their way through the game (eg: plat gear) but IMO 4x combo pots is just that in disguise. I like that STS is making money (I love STS!) but this is a little....out. Heck, i would even go for taking out 3x combo pots. Even those give massive boost.

Elixirs do ruin teamplay. What happened to party based mmo? Why are there now mages and archers running ahead of bears and obliterating everything? Because of 4/3x combo elixirs.

Some people are saying that the xp to cap is 100k. 25k if combo elixir'd all the way. I wouldnt even say 25k xp. Because there is also armor and damage.

Anyways, I really like how you brought this up, Thanks

Also, wanan do runs with me? I wont use any elixir other than 1.5 Combo

[Kalielle]

Thank you Nightarcher for opening the discussion on this! It's exactly how I feel and I wrote a post about it before, which I think got buried or maybe came too soon. Glad to see I wasn't alone. Some thoughts on what others said:

We should think about XP elixirs and booster elixirs separately because they have different effects and cause different problems.

I think XP elixirs are not that bad. I understand all the people who don't have that much time to level, and I don't blame them for using XP elixirs to reach 60. However I think the current 4X bonus is a bit much, especially with the 4X vs 1.5X difference between plat and gold elixirs. I'd like to see the max elixir be 2.5X or at most 3X like before, and to see the elixirs available for either gold or plat. That way the people who don't have time to level much or to farm for gold can buy elixirs with plat, but those who are hardcore and have saved up gold farming and grinding and yet have no plat will still have an equal chance to reach the elite level. Plat potters should be happy about this too, because the elite level will be worth nothing if when you reach it people tell you "oh I guess you must have spent a lot of money on it." Also 2 or 3X should be enough of a boost for even casual players to get to the non-elite cap by the end of the campaign, and as for the other cap - well it's elite for a reason. (Another solution to help the casual players would be to reduce the XP needed for the non-elite cap, which is getting pretty crazy for the casual high-levels, and increase the one needed for the level 61 cap. Let those who are hardcore get the grind.)

Stat boosting pots are what cause the real problem. I don't see how it can be possible to balance a game to account for the fact that in some teams everyone will have their stats increased several-fold. When AO3 first came out, as I recall the intent was to make the levels really hard so that people would have to grind the lower levels and gather gear before they even had a chance to defeat the later bosses. But what happened instead was that everyone started using 2X elixirs all the time, and all the bosses were defeated an hour into the campaign. I don't think we ever found out if the Overlord could be defeated without pots. (Remember, I'm talking pre-rebalance.)

The players who are the most hardcore and who would be most likely to spend a long time trying to defeat bosses, are also the ones most likely to use pots. But of course the game has to be balanced for the new players who are not wealthy or committed enough to use pots at all. So the levels become manageable for non-potters and really easy for the potted "hardcore". How backwards is that?

As for those who say "run your own runs without elixirs if you don't like them", let me say what everyone is thinking and no one wants to say out loud:

I don't play MMOs to prove to myself alone what I can do. I play them to show everyone else how awesome I am.

Now let me see how many of you can look inside their hearts and say honestly that the statement doesn't apply to you.

If I wanted to see the limits of what I can do alone, I'd be playing one of the many excellent and much more complex single-player games out there. I'm not looking for an MMO where I can quietly feel proud of myself while some noobs who don't know how to play and bought their way to the top are showing off their level 61s in fancy gear and telling me how leet they are. I want a game where skill is rewarded. Remember rush farming where one death would cause the entire team to fail? And Frozen Nightmares at 45 when you couldn't use potions? And Rush farming Bayou Boss Brawl at 45 before the rebalance (we used to die left and right)? And farming the AO3 boss level, where those who didn't know how to time and alternate their buffs wouldn't even make it through the portal? And Shadow Caves before it was nerfed and people stopped farming it since the gear became worthless? Let's have some of that back please. Let's make skill count again in the game.

I agree with all the others - make the next map free of stat-boosting elixirs.

[Register]

Wow neat thoughts, Kayyyleeealllll(?)

i agree with all of it...except that last little bit...im just a little on the no side of that...But some good pursauading will change my mind

[flyingscv]

First of all, I am too cheap to buy elixirs, ESP the plat ones! Are they ruining the game? Hell no. The devs have gotta earn their money somehow, and it is not as ifyou can't conolete any map without resorting to one. If others pot up and choose to charge ahead, I say let them. Plenty still die when they stray too far from the rest.

IMO a lot of people are just whining because others advance faster using elixirs. Just suck it up. You DON'T have to keep up with the Jones EVERY TIME.