Level 35 Pinks

**Reggin** · 10-27-2011, 07:05 AM

Am I the only one who thinks it is strange that we got a rather useless pink for each class at level 30, but no pinks at level 35?

Love the new content and the look of the new sets, but I'm quite turned off by the actual stats on the new gear.

My full custom level 35 op set gives exact same set bonus as level 30 custom and cost around 200k to craft, compared to about 75k for old set.

The difference after all is said and done, 4 hit (over 100 either way) and about 55 armor. The custom blade fin vs the regular blade fin, 1 dex...

Not to mention level 35 customs don't even get called custom, they simply lose the level 35 that shouldn't be there in the first place since purples can't scale and all are 35.

With the amazing scaling of base stats on greens, the green set gives equal damage, slightly less armor, but better stats overall. Rather disappointing overall.

I love that STS sometimes listens to the community and I hope they will consider it on this issue.

Please take an honest evaluation of the statistics and costs associated with custom set at level 35. I honestly think this set would be appropriate to upgrade to pink based on the high cost.

Also consider weapon customization. In PL, custom weapons always at least got a minor boost to damage. One stat point, seriously? No additional armor for custom set either?

Since the custom weapons don't even make a set, what's the point? Maybe make it so class specific customs add to set bonus? Might help the whole issue with engineers abandoning class specific weapons since shields came out...

Please chime in others so maybe the devs will either address the issue or at least give us a response.

**Kahlua** · 10-27-2011, 07:22 AM

I agree so much it's scary.

Right now it seems the custom sets are all about flare and new colors/sparkles. The custom guns are just...I don't even know why. They're 20k and the stat differences are like you said, 1 dex/str/int and like 5 hp. Not worth the money.

I'm assuming STS doesn't want us to be able to buy our way to victory, with the rich being able to afford custom gear and the less fortunate not even considering it. If the bonuses were too large, people with custom would just dominate, especially in PVP.

HOWEVER, with the price of this gear being so high...I at least expected some beneficial skills. I made a thread about the commando set bonus in the commando forum. It's only 25hp, 1 h/s, and 1% dodge. I can get healed by an eng or use a stim pack to heal myself, and the 3 health per second I now have will not keep me alive on the harder levels.

I know you don't have to buy custom gear. I bought the custom armor because I like the colors and then sparkles. But for 100k for upgrades alone (not even considering the weapon...it doesn't even change color or anything) I figured it would be something better than 25 hp and 1 h/s...especially for a commando. A more suitable bonus for the complete set would be more armor or even more strength.

**mrnofunz** · 10-27-2011, 07:23 AM

A nice voodoo equivalent set would be nice...

**IBNobody** · 10-27-2011, 07:24 AM

Two comments...

1. The reason why that equipment says "L35" on it is to help with ID'ing items for crafting. It's not as useful for the level 30 and 35 gear, but it was very useful when making the lv21 crafted items.

2. Don't use PL as a comparison. ("We have x,y,z in PL. Why can't we have this in SL?") The dev team took the item system in PL and made improvements. SL is very linear, and the stat bonuses are incremental. This was because the dev team wanted to better balance the game.

**springtime** · 10-27-2011, 07:33 AM

I really like the games this developer puts out but time and time again I question the stats of items for both games. I don't think that figuring out statistics is their strong point. Most of the time it does not make sense. I hope in the future this area is looked at and revised.

**IBNobody** · 10-27-2011, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by springtime

I really like the games this developer puts out but time and time again I question the stats of items for both games. I don't think that figuring out statistics is their strong point. Most of the time it does not make sense. I hope in the future this area is looked at and revised.

If you see the big picture of SL, you'd see that it makes perfect sense.

The game is very linear, stat wise. They have linear equations that define how much armor a suit of armor gives for a given level. They know how much damage a class can do at a given level. They reduced the opportunity for class hybridization by limiting choices and de-emphasizing the effect of stats; all characters are cookie-cutters. The devs probably have a spreadsheet somewhere where they plot all this. The end result is that you have a game that is very balanced.

Contrast this to other games. In other games, everyone complains that Class A sucks and Class B is waaaay overpowered.

To the people dissatisfied with the bonuses that your SL gear bestows, let me ask you this...

Is your group struggling to kill trash mobs?
Does your class suck?
Do you need more stats to survive, or are you just asking so that you can kill things faster?

No... Where the true dissatisfaction lies is that you pay X and get Y, but you don't think that Y is worth the cost. To this, I ask:

What else are you going to spend your credits on?

**Reggin** · 10-27-2011, 08:52 AM

Alternatively, if the custom gear shouldn't be boosted, the other gear should be weakened. I agree balance is needed, but top custom epic gear should be measurably better than regular epic gear, and specially rares and uncommons...

**bronislav84** · 10-27-2011, 09:20 AM

About Engineers abandoning class specific weapons since shields came out. Simply put, the class specific Engineer weapons majorly suck for the average Engineer. It's quite obvious if you've played one. Your survival is important, so you can res/heal people.

The issue is not that gloves suck and don't factor into a set bonus. It's that no weapons do. They should have both a glove bonus and a one handed gun + shield bonus since Engineers use both. And throw in a rifle bonus while you're at it.

If you wanna compare to PL, gloves are like a fast staff really. One handed gun + shield is like wand and shield. It just happens that the shield only makes sense for Engineers, and possibly Commandos. The fact that it isn't class specific doesn't matter really, since honestly the only class that should almost always use a shield is support Engineer.

There should be a bonus for using each weapon a class can use, really. For all the classes. Ever since set bonuses finally made it into SL, I've always found it odd that weapons didn't contribute.

Anyway it seems the itemization is different for SL, and they want to introduce pinks gradually. Maybe 35 is a bit early for full pink sets.

**roufus** · 10-27-2011, 01:57 PM

But why do they lower the price on plat sets and keep the custom sets at an outrageous price hmmm

**Cahaun** · 10-27-2011, 02:34 PM

They lowered the price on the plat sets because they were not supposed to be that expensive. I'm looking for a dev's quote when he said it.

**krazii** · 10-27-2011, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by IBNobody

The game is very linear, stat wise. They have linear equations that define how much armor a suit of armor gives for a given level. They know how much damage a class can do at a given level. They reduced the opportunity for class hybridization by limiting choices and de-emphasizing the effect of stats; all characters are cookie-cutters. The devs probably have a spreadsheet somewhere where they plot all this. The end result is that you have a game that is very balanced.

Yes, linear game, that's nice, but you shouldn't have equipment that's 5 levels higher giving the same bonuses. They came out with increased stats on implants (note, these are plat only), but didn't increase stats on customized gear. My sense is that increasing stats on customized gear would make it way more appealing then the plat gear and hence reduce the bottom line.....$$. Kinda disappointing. I hope I'm wrong, but at this point the linear game argument doesn't hold water and I don't see another explanation.

**Slant** · 10-27-2011, 04:15 PM

uh im with the other camp here, I wouldnt mind if the custom purps were actually worse than the greens stat wise, so that everyone has a fair chance to play with the best gear in the game, and those who take the trouble and effort to craft a purp have to play on a handicap, but get shiney particle fx for their trouble. so right now this slight benefit seems to be just right.

**ArtStar** · 10-27-2011, 05:35 PM

Customs cost 100k to make at lvl 35 and 60k to make at lvl 30 lol, idk where you've been buying your recipes! xD

I did wish there was at least a color change for the 20k I spent for +1 int. and +5 health when customizing my torches.
Not to mention the big name change for customs lolol.
I love the new update and I love all the touch ups sts does with this game I think it's VERY well put together, but I do agree with these points.
A slightly better upgrade for the new expensive customs would be great, I mean I've died a good 400+ times in the Shipyard.
Shipyard came out what, the 16th?
I know I'm an engineer and all but I like to carry aggro for more that 0.2 seconds, and since I'M THE ONE who's always rushing and being waited on to plow into mobs first about 98% of the time. A good armor upgrade would be greatly appreciated not just for customs but the whole lvl35 set. If not that, drop the critical hit percent enemies have in SY, touch of transference=instant death in a mob. Even the mines have critical damage and kills you 3/4 times. I lovvvveee the new engineer gloves, but I can not use them at all in the Shipyard cause that drops my armor to like 500+ even with the Dura implant I had to switch to from my crit implant I love so much. That means nothing, when with whistler and energy shield I have over 700+ armor and I'm dying just as much.

Again, I love SL and think it's put together so well, all the updates and stuff make sense and it's super fair,
but these are somethings worth looking at imo.
ESPECIALLY the non-existent color change on the customized weapons overall, I mean C'mon ;] ahahaha just playing.

**IBNobody** · 10-27-2011, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by krazii:463597

Originally Posted by IBNobody

The game is very linear, stat wise. They have linear equations that define how much armor a suit of armor gives for a given level. They know how much damage a class can do at a given level. They reduced the opportunity for class hybridization by limiting choices and de-emphasizing the effect of stats; all characters are cookie-cutters. The devs probably have a spreadsheet somewhere where they plot all this. The end result is that you have a game that is very balanced.

Yes, linear game, that's nice, but you shouldn't have equipment that's 5 levels higher giving the same bonuses. They came out with increased stats on implants (note, these are plat only), but didn't increase stats on customized gear. My sense is that increasing stats on customized gear would make it way more appealing then the plat gear and hence reduce the bottom line.....$$. Kinda disappointing. I hope I'm wrong, but at this point the linear game argument doesn't hold water and I don't see another explanation.

The equipment doesn't give all the same bonuses. The bonuses get bumped up slightly with each 5 level group.

What people complain about is that they get the same amount of stat bonuses going from 10 to 15 as when they go from 30 to 35. They think that the 30 to 35 jump should yield LARGER bonus increases. (Level 35 is greater than level 15, right?)

That is not how a linear system works. You don't start getting bigger bonuses because bonuses increase at a fixed amount. This amount was chosen so that you wouldn't completely blow things out of the water when you hit the level cap.

**Reggin** · 10-27-2011, 07:04 PM

Hate to say it ib, but you are wrong. The set bonus for both level 30 and 35 custom op gear is identical... 2 crit and 5 damage... Gear stats didn't improve linearly either, only armor did... Slight armor boost (54 for set), 25 health for set, and 6 hit... Dex and crit didn't scale linearly. Slouch green to shipyard green didn't scale linearly.

Level 30 greens didn't beat out regular level 30 purples... Yet level 35 greens beat level 35 regular purples.

And to the guy saying greens should be better than epics, you should be repeatedly flamed for going against the most basic concept of mmo gearing. The best gear is the gear you need to invest in to obtain. Either by investing money or investing time farming difficult bosses. Any other system that rewards unskilled and lazy players to penalize skilled hard working players is completely wrong... You must be a democrat!

**krazii** · 10-27-2011, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by IBNobody

That is not how a linear system works. You don't start getting bigger bonuses because bonuses increase at a fixed amount. This amount was chosen so that you wouldn't completely blow things out of the water when you hit the level cap.

I'm usually down with what you say, but on this one, Sorry bud, can't agree with ya. In a linear system, the stat bonus would increase percentage wise along with levels. Maybe they do and we just see rounded whole numbers, but I doubt it. What this does is in effect make the level 35 customized gear no more effective (for their level) then the level 30 customized gear. You'd think as you progress in level, the gear would keep up (see implants as an example), but like I said, I think this is more about plat purchases on gear then anything else. Anyhow, thanks for the good dialogue.

**IBNobody** · 10-27-2011, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Reggin

Hate to say it ib, but you are wrong. The set bonus for both level 30 and 35 custom op gear is identical... 2 crit and 5 damage... Gear stats didn't improve linearly either, only armor did... Slight armor boost (54 for set), 25 health for set, and 6 hit... Dex and crit didn't scale linearly. Slouch green to shipyard green didn't scale linearly.

Level 30 greens didn't beat out regular level 30 purples... Yet level 35 greens beat level 35 regular purples.

This is what I've observed while collecting data for the item compendium...

Armor's armor values and weapon damage values are 100% linear.

Platinum gear crit/hit/dodge gets a total +1 point increase every 5 levels. The dev team reshuffled bonuses at 30, but this pattern held for the 30-35 increase. (For Ops, they got an extra +1 to hit on their armor pieces.)

Non-platinum, non-prefixed gear either gets a +1 point increase to crit/hit/dodge (and apparently str/int/dex) or it gets a complete reshuffle.

Non-platinum prefixed gear gets a +1 point increase to the primary and secondary stat every rank. (I think this may be slightly greater than +1, because you occasionally see a +2.) This DID hold up from Sloucho to Shipyard.

This is why I said that the stat increases were linear. I did not mean that you "get X crit every 5 levels". Rather, the total stat bonuses increase at a fixed rate with respect to level. (See my response to Krazii for more thoughts on this.)

The crux of your problem, though, is that you don't like having to pay a double fixed cost for customization which only adds HP, MP, and a set bonus that don't change with respect to level. Correct?

Again, I ask... What else are you going to spend your credits on? You earn more credits from liquidating higher level gear. You earn more credits killing higher level mobs. You earn more credits grinding to 36 because the grind takes longer. Why wouldn't the cost increase? It's a bonus on top of high-end gear.

Originally Posted by krazii

I'm usually down with what you say, but on this one, Sorry bud, can't agree with ya. In a linear system, the stat bonus would increase percentage wise along with levels. Maybe they do and we just see rounded whole numbers, but I doubt it. What this does is in effect make the level 35 customized gear no more effective (for their level) then the level 30 customized gear. You'd think as you progress in level, the gear would keep up (see implants as an example), but like I said, I think this is more about plat purchases on gear then anything else. Anyhow, thanks for the good dialogue.

What I suspect is happening is that the dev team assigns a score to each type of stat increase, and the total score cap increases as the equipment level increases.

To throw something out there (example only, not real data)... Primary stats may be worth 5 points, HIT/CRIT/DODGE may be worth 10 points, and +5HP or MP may be worth 5 points. You have 50 points to work with at lv X, with some amount of overage allowed.

The data is in my compendium if you want to mine it.

**THE Tesla** · 10-28-2011, 12:15 AM

my2cents

First off I think you engineers are playing with the wrong commandos.
The set bonus for 30 and 35 should not be the same, they are.. does the name of the customized gear really matter? I agree though that for 20k, they could have at least changed the color of my guns...and also why do both dual plat guns have same stats??... just look different
Also, the op plat gear does not have crit if that was what u were trying to say ibn

idk if this post really fits in,you guys calculate your stats way more then i do.. i just plug n play

**roufus** · 10-28-2011, 12:47 AM

Speaking of the credits why is everything been scaled up except for the price of the junk oranges and whites if u liquidate your inventory after a run u get the same price no matter what lvl the gear is

**kateku** · 10-28-2011, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by ArtStar

Customs cost 100k to make at lvl 35 and 60k to make at lvl 30 lol, idk where you've been buying your recipes! xD

I did wish there was at least a color change for the 20k I spent for +1 int. and +5 health when customizing my torches.
Not to mention the big name change for customs lolol.
I love the new update and I love all the touch ups sts does with this game I think it's VERY well put together, but I do agree with these points.
A slightly better upgrade for the new expensive customs would be great, I mean I've died a good 400+ times in the Shipyard.
Shipyard came out what, the 16th?
I know I'm an engineer and all but I like to carry aggro for more that 0.2 seconds, and since I'M THE ONE who's always rushing and being waited on to plow into mobs first about 98% of the time. A good armor upgrade would be greatly appreciated not just for customs but the whole lvl35 set. If not that, drop the critical hit percent enemies have in SY, touch of transference=instant death in a mob. Even the mines have critical damage and kills you 3/4 times. I lovvvveee the new engineer gloves, but I can not use them at all in the Shipyard cause that drops my armor to like 500+ even with the Dura implant I had to switch to from my crit implant I love so much. That means nothing, when with whistler and energy shield I have over 700+ armor and I'm dying just as much.

Again, I love SL and think it's put together so well, all the updates and stuff make sense and it's super fair,
but these are somethings worth looking at imo.
ESPECIALLY the non-existent color change on the customized weapons overall, I mean C'mon ;] ahahaha just playing.

You dont have to run so fast. lol

But i do tend to run ahead of the team and die lol.