Towards the perfect equipment - a commentary and observations from the past
Introduction
This thread is intended to be a critique of all of the equipment sets that have been implemented since Nuri's Hallows and to provide feedback for future level cap rises, particularly as there will a level cap rise soon.
So far, there have been no sets that have been truly outstanding for mages, bears, and birds. Every set so far has had many weaknesses.
With the expected rise in difficulty in future levels, I feel that there is no longer any room for substandard equipment.
Goals of this post:
1. To raise awareness of what makes good equipment for each class
2. To encourage the devs to use this guide a guideline for what equipment should be like and to raise support for doing so
3. To create as close to a balanced PvP environment as realistically feasible
Int
Int Set: Seeing as this is my main char, this will be discussed the most.
The Sets
To begin with, the demonic glyph wand set was pretty close to an ideal mage set (slightly lower mana regen and too much wasted in useless health regen) as possible, while the demonic glyph staff set was far from ideal.
Images unbuffed:
Thanks to Awwmang for briefly lending me his wand set
Buffed:
Stats
Unbuffed:
Demonic Glyph Staff Min Max Average
Ice Storm 230 326 278
Frostbite 318 377 347.5
Fire Blast 354 476 415
Lightning 338 480 409
Drain Life 384 539 461.5
Main Weapon 249 272 260.5; weapon speed adjustment 236.8181818
Demonic Glyph Wand Min Max Average
Ice Storm 186 285 235.5
Frostbite 276 337 306.5
Fire Blast 313 439 376
Lightning 296 443 369.5
Drain Life 343 502 422.5
Main Weapon 206 251 228.5
Difference (staff / int) average
Staff/Wand
Ice Storm 1.180467091
Frostbite 1.133768352
Fire Blast 1.103723404
Lightning 1.106901218
Drain Life 1.092307692
Main Weapon 1.036403422
On average, we are looking at about 10% more power on the staff set, which translates into a bit more once enemy armor is factored in. Buffed numbers are just 9%.
In return for just 10% more damage, the staff set is sacrificing 46 armor, 1% crit, 4% dodge, and 5M/S. Needless to say, in PvP in a 1v1, staff almost always lost versus wand. This was not the case in the Mega Mage days, where staff and wand could beat each other roughly evenly.
Factor in the proc and the wand actually does more auto damage than the staff. Wand has a "weakness" re-roll proc while the staff has a burn proc (use with frost bite) and AOE.
By far the most crippling problem on the glyph staff set though was the poor (by mage standards) mana regen of only 25 M/S. The wand set could also benefit from a bit more mana regen.
Compared to its enchanted and mega mage counterparts, the staff set offered a minimal increase in protection, a decrease compared to MM in mana regen, only a paltry increase in base damage, but a noticeable increase in crit.
Compared to its 55 counterparts, the wand set offered an improvement in everything except mana regen: base damage and crit were up, along with armor and dodge
Results:
- Wand int mage was OP for PvP
- Staff int mage was decent for group fights, but underpowered for 1v1 (weak vs warbird and str bear; very low chance of winning a staff vs wand fight against another int mage)
For your reference, heal on the staff and wand sets:
Staff
Heal 141-289; Average 215
Wand
Heal 145-296; Average 220.5
Heal is only affected by how much int you have and how many points you have in heal (all mages should max heal by the end game). Wand will have slightly higher as it has more int.
So what would make a perfect int set?
Well, to begin with, each of the 3 classes when using their core sets has one nearly useless stat that equipment almost always buffs:
- Int mages: H/S is worthless on staff set; high armor on the wand set makes it somewhat useful, although the points would be much better expended in mana regen or base damage
- Dex birds: Hit % is worthless; pure dex birds already have 100% hit and focus only adds to their hit % even more
- Str bears: M/S is worthless; bear skills do not devour much mana; 8M/S is overkill in fact
Edit:
Sets should be designed for their core classes first. For example, in the int section, we are not discussing how to design the ultimate int bird or int bear set. That said, I have devoted a significant proportion of this thread to discussing the 3 classes with str and dex builds, since they are widely used. However, I always believe that the core class is first, for example, an ideal str set should not be designed for pallies at the expense of bears (which happened with fury; although it later worked out because fortified proved to be a pretty good set for bear).
Why H/S is less useful on a mage:
Suppose we have 2 targets. Both have 50 H/S. Suppose one is a mage with 0% dodge (in practice they will usually have single digits), and a bear with 50% dodge (bears can get higher than this). The mage has 100 armor and the bear 200.
Now imagine if we have 4 hits of 300 damage per second over a period of 4s.
For mage:
Damage sustained:
Damage per hit:
300 - 100 = 200
Damage taken
200 x 4 = 800
Less damage healed
800 - 50 x 4 = 600
For bear
Damage per hit:
300 - 200 = 100
Damage taken
100 x 4 = 400
Times dodge
400 x (1 - 0.5) = 200
Less damage healed
200 - 50 x 4 = 0
Assuming that it was the first 2 shots that hit, in which case the bear would sustain zero damage. If the 2nd and 3rd shot hit (or 2nd and 4th), the bear would be less 50 hp. If the 3rd and 4th shots hit, the bear would have lost 100 hp. If that were a pure int mage, 600 hp would mean that unless the mage healed, they would be dead.
The reason is because when dodge and armor are taken into account, H/S is very ineffective on a mage. Seeing that enemies hit in excess of 200 damage in Nuri and in PvP, with a staff, you'd probably be dead before you could take advantage of the health regen by much. I have not even factored in that mages can heal! It may be useful on a wand mage, but it would be far better expended in armor in that case.
I suppose in the Sewers, where enemies only hit 30 damage per hit, H/S may have been moderately useful, but in Nuri, the numbers tell me otherwise. A lot of players I find tend to suffer from the "placebo effect" thinking that H/S makes a life-or-death difference - it does not as the numbers show.
In my opinion, all experienced int mages should use staff in PvE, due to the superior damage output, except when fighting bosses with a PUG (to avoid aggro). The damage output is noticeable. Only novice mages who have difficulties keeping themselves alive throughout Nuri should stick with wand. One exception may be levels where it doesn't matter if you kill enemies and survivability is crucial (Nuri's madness).
The Perfect Int Set
What would make a perfect int mage set?
To begin with, there should be a wand and a staff, just like always before.
- Very high base damage (highest in the game)
- 30%+ crit unbuffed; crit in the current Glyph sets is good
- At least 35 M/S on staff, and ideally 40 M/S on wand
- Some hit % for when you are debuffed (happens a lot in PvP and sometimes as well in PvE; some mobs DO debuff)
- Massive boost to the int stat (for extra base damage and to make heal high)
- Some armor, but fairly low dodge
- Nice to have would be a mana reserve (kind of like the 50 mana reserve that enchanted staff set gave); optional though for game balance
- Staff, given the loss in survivability should be at least 20% more powerful in damage output on average than wand to justify the loss.
- Keep the current procs. Wand should be a darkbolt with weakness and staff should be a fire staff with AOE and burn.
Weaknesses of this set:
- Poor survivability, especially for staff.
- Small amount of armor increase (compared to demonic glyph) and low dodge
I have deliberately left weaknesses in the interests of game balance and to keep the difficulty high. Note the omission of H/S.
Near perfect sets:
- Mega mage. It focused on what mattered. The only thing that would have been nice would have been higher crit. That was a key weakness. Some hit% on each set would have been nice too, although in the 55-era, that would have made it OP. In the 60+ era though, hit % will be well balanced, as pure ints already have a hit% of over 100%. Not too much hit % though, as it is not critical.
- Demonic glyph wand: It has everything that an int mage could want except too little mana regen from a wand set (although not a staff set, which needs more damage output). Had it had 10 more M/S, it would have been perfect.
- The demonic staff set would have been perfect had it had at least 35 M/S and 10% more base damage. The low survivability on the staff set is not a weakness as staff mages are not expected to be durable nor to be front line units.
Dex
To begin with, I feel that dex birds are now underpowered in the game, particularly in PvP. With the exception of strength bears (and a dex bird will usually die if beckon hits), there is not a class that dex birds truly shine against (although traditionally, dex birds have been very strong against int mage and remain fairly strong). They are in need of a buff.
- Dex birds, as mentioned are underpowered for PvP. Too low crit, although the extra armor compared to custom is nice, as is the ability to shoot at 13m with the auto bow.
- Dex bears are also somewhat underpowered, although they are strong vs dex bird. They were decent though in PvE, provided that the user was willing to accept more deaths and use health potions liberally. A good dex bear could speed up a run noticeably.
- Dex mages are quite potent. Although many dex mages were disappointed at the reduction in crit, the high mana regen more than made up for it, and dex mages remained extremely potent.
Dex bird, circa level 61 cap:
Thanks to Moogerfooger for lending me his set briefly.
Unbuffed
Buffed
Dex damage output (pure dex):
Blast shot 414 - 435
Avian Scream 293 - 338
Repulse 341 - 361
Blinding Shot 319 - 383
Main Weapon 261 - 273
It doesn't say how much break armor does, but I would guess it is similar to these values. The roots both do damage over time, with thorn root doing the greater single damage.
Note these ranges between the minimum and maximum are much more narrow compared to the int values. There is no difference between buffed and unbuffed values as unlike rage and blessings of might, focus does not add damage.
The Perfect Dex Set
To begin with, instead of a dagger and an auto a return to the 50 (blaster/sunblessed bow) or 55 (auto/recurve) where there is one set that does a lot of damage with a 10m range and a second which does less damage in return for long range would be ideal. Base damage is the only thing that should be different, although for balance, perhaps the 10m set should have better crit. Daggers are not very effective, even with the high armor on a dex build because they have to close to close range so auto damage although it looks good on paper, is vastly reduced.
- Highest crit of any set in game (same amount of crit as custom before would be ideal)
- Highest weapons damage in game (which dex builds have always had and always will)
- High base damage (around 10% increase compared to the demonic obedience; will be less than int though)
- High H/S (H/S is useful on bird because bird heal is not as good as mage heal, because of the bird's dodge, and because birds can stay at a distance if they wish)
- Moderate amount of mana regen (somewhere between custom and the glyph 60 sets would be ideal); I think most dex players would trade more damage for mana. Birds have meditate, bears don't need a lot of mana, and mages, as I will explain below, won't be too adversely affected.
- Moderate amount of armor
- A bit of dodge for good measure (not too much as this would unbalance the game)
- Notice that hit % is not mentioned in this; in both PvP and PvE, even when hit with a debuff, they should still have enough hit %; I suppose only a low amount of hit is needed; optional
- Also note that I did not say "massive boost to dex stat"; crit would be far more valuable than more dex (for int mages, base damage matters more)
Weaknesses:
- Poor survivability, although I expect that due to evade, it will be better than int sets. Plus, with a longer range (auto) and higher weapon muzzle velocity, dex sets can stay at range if needed and allow the tanks in their parties to absorb the worst of it.
Near perfect sets:
- Custom Recurve: Could have had slightly higher base damage and a bit more mana regen, but otherwise perfect. In fact, I'd say custom birds were borderline OP. Enchanted and fortified both forced their wearers to make compromises (mana regen), while custom was an improvement in both survivability and damage output (due to the higher crit).
- For dex mages, the raid roach auto bow in the 55 days could be considered near-perfect. The reduced crit was still enough to go over 100 buffed and the higher base damage combined with long range made it a better choice than custom recurve.
Expected Results
- Birds should retain their position as damage king and should be more balanced in PvP
- Dex bear will be a more viable build and should not have to use any mana potions whatsoever
- Dex mage will not be too harmed. There will be an adjustment period for dex mages. However, I notice that in the 55 days, the preferred dex mage set, the raid roach auto bow had low mana regen and yet dex mages were still so powerful than there were several threads on the forums (and complaints in game) that dex mages were OP.
- Birds will have to either use a bit more mana potions or put some points in meditation. Dex mages in PvE will need to use more mana potions.
- For PvE, health potions will have to be used liberally by dex birds and dex bears, with a moderate amount by dex mages (whose heal is weaker than int mages).
Str
Str is a bit of a challenge, because the needs of a pally, birds, and bears differ.
The demonic strongman's set was as close to perfection as it gets, to be honest. It represented a huge step forward over the fury and fortified predecessors.
Note: I am looking for a warbird, str bear, and pally for pictures for this thread.
Results:
- Bears were vastly more potent than their 55 predecessors and for 60 pvp were balanced (underpowered IMO for 55 pvp), and a good set for PvE
- Pally received an impressive gain in damage output and for the first time since rift were able to get some kills (in the fury days, being a pally meant that others would "steal" all your kills); reasonably balanced
- Warbirds became the most OP build in 60 PvP. No real weaknesses in PvP. The only build that gave them difficulties were pallies. Traditionally, in a dex bird vs warbird fight, all other things being equal, we could expect a dex bird to win. With the strongman's set, this was no longer the case. They were also quite powerful against int and dex mages just like before, and no longer lost to bears (which they often lost to in the fortified days due to running out of mana). There have been accusations (and IMO with some justification) that warbird needed no skill. I wouldn't say "no skill", but less skill.
I recommend that for pure PvE, mages and birds opt for a damage dealing (int mage and dex bird) build instead.
The ideal str set
- Highest armor of any set in the game
- Highest dodge of and set in the game (although not too high for balance purposes; actually the amount of dodge on strongmans is ideal; carry this amount forward)
- Highest health regen of any set in the game (recall my post on H/S mages ... by contrast, H/S is very useful on a str build).
- Moderate amount of hit % (not too high though for game balance)
- A small buff to base damage (not too high for game balance)
- Perhaps a health reserve from set bonus like the one fortified had (optional for game balance purposes)
- A boost to str is optional; it does increase health reserves, but not as important; more survivability would be better
Here is where birds and pallies have one need, while bears have another:
- Mana regen. Bears don't need much. They need like 6 M/S, while with bird and pally, it is more like 16 m/s. Bears would prefer more survivability over mana. For pallies, mana IS life (especially with shield on). Birds need it. I think that the ideal set is going to have to have high mana regen.
The solution? I recommend that instead of a 2h longsword (that was very rarely ever used), that we have 2 1h weapons. One will have high mana regen. The other will have high health regen with low mana regen. The other 3 pieces (helmet, plate, and shield) can then have low mana regen.
Near Perfect Sets:
- In other words, the strongman's set already comes to the ideal set already. Just buff every characteristic except dodge (for balance) and mana regen (which could actually be reduced in favor of more armor) and it's all good.
- For bears, apart from the low dodge and lack of hit%, the fortified set was otherwise perfect. The low mana regen on fortified was no weakness for str bears. The high base damage somewhat offset the lack of hit %. It was more "luck based" than anything else. When the bear got consistent hits, damage was very impressive. When the hit % failed, things could fall apart pretty quickly. Needless to say, fort bears tended to dominate bear vs bear fights. It was also useful in PvE for tanking, while the dodge was missed, the high survivability made this in its era the best set for pure tanking and when Nuri's Hallows was introduced, was the only set that could initially (before the nerf) offer some protection against one hit ko procs.
Other thoughts
The only thing that I disliked the most about demonic was that it was too powerful relative to the non-demonic sets. In the 55 days, there was a set called "drainers", which in PvP (also useful in PvE where survivability was essential), which was considered on par with RR in many ways, despite being much cheaper. With the demonic sets, there was no equal. The end result was that a moderate skilled demonic player could in a 1v1 beat a more experienced non-demonic user. I initially had difficulties believing it, but when I switched over from regular charming to demonic on my staff, I noticed the difference immediately.
In the interests of making the game as interesting for lower budget players, I recommend:
- Dex: An updated version of the drainers set with more base damage; weakness will be low crit and lower base damage
- Int: An int set with dodge and fairly high mana regen, hampered by low crit and low base damage (similar to dex counterpart)
- Str: A str set with moderate mana regen, high hit % and somewhat higher base damage at the expense of survivability (armor and dodge)
- The crafted sets should not be so powerful that they prove to be decisive advantage
The 3 sets I have pointed out above will also be useful in PvE:
- Where survivability is required, the dex and int sets may be worn by birds and mages respectively (future equivalents of Nuri's Madness; all players are advised to remember to switch at boss).
- Some experienced tanks may actually opt to use the damage str set over the tanking str set for faster runs.
I want you to notice that none of the 50 sets made my list of "perfect" sets. The reason is because the 50 sets lacked focus. They tried to be "spread out". Sets that buff the most important core competencies will always outperform those that try to be everything.
Finally,
Finally, I will be creating a new thread once the new level comes out and I have the time to form my opinion of the new sets. I fully expect an increase in difficulty in the new level.
Edit:
This thread will be updated regularly. I will post what changes I have made in a new post on this thread. This will ensure that any readers can have a record of in what order the updates were made and based on the feedback of whom.
Originally Posted by Moogerfooger
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