Think before u report!!!

[Redbridge]

It's commendable that you felt the need to offer a supportive option to reporting but faced with the same scenario, I'd have allowed ninja to report and probably have done the same.....

THEN.... would have done the 'discussion' thing but my motivation wouldn't have been to "see" if they were nice. It would have been to prevent the person ruining anyone else's game. I'm just here to have fun and share having fun with others. If other players think trying to sell plat is part of the game then let STS investigate and decide whether they need to take any further action. I don't mind briefly letting them know it's against the terms and why.

Regarding whether they were genuine or not really isn't my call. If i see it going down it's generally reported...

Don't get me wrong, I've diffused hundred of flame wars and have the logs to prove it but scamming, is scamming, is scamming and there could have been lots of attempts on other players previous to your encounter that you have seen, so therefore aren't able to put it into any context. Reporting allows STS to see if it was an isolated innocent incident or whether there is actually a much bigger issue.

Report, leave to STS, move on and have fun. Safe & fun environment for all is my vote (as is reasonably possible, this isn't toytownandfluffybunnyrabbitland).

[FluffNStuff]

My post was a little harsh, and I don't know why I did not mention this then, but it was mostly due to guilt. Back in April I was trying to buy a custom recurve for quite a bit of gold and I attracted this scammer. He said he had it, but it was on another account and he wanted me to pay this account then would get it. Pretty typical scam, but I played a long for a while till I got board and left. He seemed harmless enough, so i did not report him, but added him to my friends list to keep an eye out. About a week later, someone on the forum starts posting about getting his account stolen by a scammer who offered to log into his account and buy him plat. As soon as he posted the name of the scammer, I recognized it immediately and felt awful. Perhaps I could have stopped this, as guarding naive players from these scammers is something I felt was part of my 'title'.
So for this reason, I ask that anyone wise enough to recognize a scammer when they see it to report them immediately. You might not stop them from harming your fellow players, but at least you know you won't have the jaw dropping punch in the gut I had when you realize what you could have done.

[Artentreri]

Bottom line for me is, I didn't know how awesome/in-depth/thought out/big this game was until I downloaded it. I figured it was just another addicting game, so of course I didn't take 20 minutes to read through that. Once I did see how insanely awesome the game was I was too concerned with playing it to read anything about it. That being said it's kind of a given that you can't sell plat, share accounts, etc.

[Onaraasider]

If someone tells a cop that they were thinking of robbing a bank,the cop would tell them not to do that and explain the consquences and would set the defence on the bank just in case

[Onaraasider]

None of you are understanding me,the main. Thing I'm trying to say is that before u tell them the consequences, if they are someone named named free plat or hack plat, I would report ASAP.
I decided to do this becuz of pandars story with helping someone with an innapropriate name

[Hankomachos]

I'd rather report a scammer than tell him he's wrong, and have him leave town, join a new instance, and scam someone out of their account.

If he knows he's wrong, he's worth reporting.
If he doesn't know he's wrong, then it's his own fault for not reading the terms of service.

Btw, your analogy doesn't apply. A police officer would make an arrest if someone told him that they were going to rob a bank.

[zappaxe]

I'm srry ona but when u said "if he looks like hes new" ur wrong. See scammers will scam,get reported than make a new account and scam again and on and on. That's what makes them seem like confused newbies if they took the time to lvl and get good gear why risk their account? Hope u understand. Pls feel free to point out a flaw in my logic :]

Zappaxe

[KingFu]

If someone tells a cop that they were thinking of robbing a bank,the cop would tell them not to do that and explain the consquences and would set the defence on the bank just in case

Not if the crime has already begun to take place. Also, I doubt the cop would tell him the consequences and walk away, he'd handcuff the person for being a threat. I used to warn people before reporting, and most would say "Oh, okay sry" and go do it in another town. Too risky to let em walk away as Fluff said.

[FluffNStuff]

None of you are understanding me,the main. Thing I'm trying to say is that before u tell them the consequences, if they are someone named named free plat or hack plat, I would report ASAP.
I decided to do this becuz of pandars story with helping someone with an innapropriate name

Inappropriate name is a much different story, and unless it is racist, I don't see that as this serious. There is a huge difference between reporting someone for doing something that would offend players versus something that would harm players. These scams have serious financial impacts on players and can really hurt.
Now as to your analogy, this is more like someone walking up to an undercover cop and trying to sell them drugs. You better believe the cop is going to arrest the person on the spot to keep him from selling to others.

[Onaraasider]

I'm srry ona but when u said "if he looks like hes new" ur wrong. See scammers will scam,get reported than make a new account and scam again and on and on. That's what makes them seem like confused newbies if they took the time to lvl and get good gear why risk their account? Hope u understand. Pls feel free to point out a flaw in my logic :]

Zappaxe

i know what they look like,but there is a difference, a scammer will have no clothes at all maybe beginner bow,this guy had normal clothing for a "noob"

[Onaraasider]

whatever, not the response i expected from everyone, from now on i will ask new players trying to scam if they know what they're are doing even if u think it is wrong.

[Suentous PO]

Sorry if some of seem harsh or if this was an altogether undesirable reaction from us, Onaraasider. I have taken a calmer approach at times & mentioned " hey that's illegal didja know ?", maybe was or wasn't the best thing to do , dunno.
I can tell you when we were trying to shut down "studios" he both acted ignorant and outright said "no your wrong" when we corrected him. I have just seen too many scammers lately who obviously make new toons when I've tell them wrong from right , then switched town & seen them do it again on the same or another toon with the same quickchat.
But I hear ya , your saying use Your judgment feel things out and maybe give the benefit of the doubt, right?
I do side more with the report sooner rather than maybe be sorry, and the reason I say that is I trust and know the devs can access all chats and if I'm wrong nothing bad will happen to them. I also assume if I abuse the report button I will hear about it.
Cheers

[Aikiebo]

I do side more with the report sooner rather than maybe be sorry, and the reason I say that is I trust and know the devs can access all chats and if I'm wrong nothing bad will happen to them. I also assume if I abuse the report button I will hear about it.
Cheers

I tend to agree.

The other day, in FH, someone was spamming, "will give you one plat for a sword". So, I'm thinking, hmm... So, to play along with him just to get more info, I asked him how he was going to give me a plat. He thought about and said he didn't know. So, I just assumed that he was just too new and didn't know about the plat rules. So, I explained it all to him. He said thanks, and that was that. But, now I'm thinking maybe I should have reported it just in case - while fully explaining that it was prob not a scam - but letting the devs have the option to look into if they wanted to.

[CrimsonTider]

whatever, not the response i expected from everyone, from now on i will ask new players trying to scam if they know what they're are doing even if u think it is wrong.

And this is not the response I expect from someone who represents the community. My suggestion is you lock the thread since you are getting upset and not getting the results you desire.

[Aikiebo]

whatever, not the response i expected from everyone, from now on i will ask new players trying to scam if they know what they're are doing even if u think it is wrong.

And this is not the response I expect from someone who represents the community. My suggestion is you lock the thread since you are getting upset and not getting the results you desire.

I don't think anyone is getting upset. Certainly, no reason to.

The hybrid approach is a good idea, Onaraasider, I like it. If someone really doesn seem new, it is an excellent idea to take a couple of minutes and explain to them why whatever they are doing is wrong.

If you don't they might still just keep doing it. And why should a dev take the time out to explain what is right.

However, some actually scammers are going to fake being new until they find out if someone is just trying to get info to report them. That is why, it is probably a good idea to also report them. Explaining that you tried to explain the rules.

Then the devs could look at the guy's chat logs before and after your conversation. They will be able to tell if he is an inncoent new player or a scammer.

In other words, it's a good idea to do both. If the person is an innocent newb, you have just helped him and the game a whole lot. But, if he was trying to fool you and is actually a scammer, your reporting him will also help others and the game.

[FluffNStuff]

whatever, not the response i expected from everyone, from now on i will ask new players trying to scam if they know what they're are doing even if u think it is wrong.

Sorry if we are not responding as you would like, but your post/advice can cause serious harm, and I hope it does not convince others to do the same. Account scammers are not the same as offensive tos breakers, and doing anything but hitting the report ('go' lions, just scored) button is hurting your fellow players.

[kallima]

I would much rather err on the side of caution here. I do take the time to explain offensive names, prevent spamming etc but when rl money is involved and innocent peeps can be hurt - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

edit: Ignorance of the law does not exempt you from it. Could not edit title.

[NECROREAPER]

Think about it this way:

Instead of instantly reporting the potential scammer, you let him slide and warn him that he's doing is wrong. Well unfortunately enough, this person does turn out to be a scammer (or even possibly a new one who isn't that "good" at it yet) and instead of reporting and getting him banned which could potentially help save many players, you let him slide with a warning. Well what that warning did was alert him to the fact that there are a lot of people out there who are watching for scammers and won't be so nice as to give him a warning. Because of this, now the scammer will lay low and Pm people to scam them instead of shouting it out in the open.

So because of this you made a scammer harder to catch.

[Aikiebo]

Now as to your analogy, this is more like someone walking up to an undercover cop and trying to sell them drugs. You better believe the cop is going to arrest the person on the spot to keep him from selling to others.

Actually, that is not likely at all.

Breaking the TOS is breaking the TOS is breaking the TOS, regardless of "knowing" the rules or not.

Agree, whole heartedly.

When you get busted for committing a crime, you have to deal with the consequences, regardless of whether or not you knew what the crime was or knew you were committing it.

The problem with any analogy to real-life police actions is that one we not supposed to be talking about real-life politics.

And, yeah, I know where you're coming from with the ignorance is no excuse idea, but the fact is in real life, all kinds of concessions are made for people. I'm not saying that good or bad, I'm just saying it is a major every day occurence. And, that is the 2nd reason that analogies to real-life law enforcement not a good idea.

If anyone is suggesting that scammers, especially, account scammers, shouldn't be reported, well, no, that is a major mistake. If op is saying that, then, um.. yeah, I would have to disagree. The hybrid approach to scammers is good, for several reasons.

But, prob less so with account scammers. I thought we were talking about scammers in general.

But, in general, the hybrid approach is much better than simply hitting report.

Of course, then, I mean only if someone has time to try to help. People don't always have that time. I would be a major hypocrite and liar if I said, that I always take the time to educate before I report. No, sure, many times yes, But, sometimes, I just don't have time. Or they just so annoying, they get on my nerves at bit, lol.

But, no one needs to be all upset with the op. He is just trying to help. Telling him your opinons is good. But no reason to be upset.

[Redbridge]

None of you are understanding me,the main. Thing I'm trying to say is that before u tell them the consequences, if they are someone named named free plat or hack plat, I would report ASAP.
I decided to do this becuz of pandars story with helping someone with an innapropriate name

i know what they look like,but there is a difference, a scammer will have no clothes at all maybe beginner bow,this guy had normal clothing for a "noob"

whatever, not the response i expected from everyone, from now on i will ask new players trying to scam if they know what they're are doing even if u think it is wrong.

Hey Ona, I know it's difficult when people disagree with somethink you think is a good idea, but please read over the responses and try to understand the genuine reasons why some of the very experienced players have written what they have. Also remember they are only people's opinions we're all allowed to have different opinions which is what makes life so rich.

I fully understand your intentions. Supporting players & turning around awkward situations/issues between players in private is probably one of the main contributing factors why I was awarded the GoA award, and I pride myself on my supportive approach so I really do understand your motivation on this.

But, consider these;

Reporting someone doesn't ban another player. It just allows STS to check a players log/trade/account history to check for any wrong doing. Also will allow them to monitor them if they think there could be some future issues. If they are clean STS don't do anything to the reporter or reportee.

Apparently innocent potential scams, can very easily be 'hidden' by very clever players. In their very nature scammers will always attempt to hide behind a veil of deception and appear to be something they are not. If there is ever any possible scams, regardless if in your judgement they seem innocent, we all have a duty to highlight it to STS to allow them to check/protect all players if it's needed.

Helping any player to better understand any aspect of the game, regardless of whether they are a potential scammer or not is generally time well spent and hopefully will improve that players enjoyment/prospects in the game.

So my view is still, if I see a potential scam occurring I will normally report 1st, be cautious/mindful if considering interacting with said player and then highlight the potential issue briefly/politely to them and see where the conversation goes. It normally goes nicely and some good stuff comes from it afterwards. But I've no knowledge of their previous/future interactions.

I really hope that helps, but as always feel free to give me a nudge if needed. If you are really concerned then consider sending a PM to Samhayne/Pandar for their take on the matter.

This is a really useful thread. Well done for posting it. Some great exchange of ideas/opinions.

Good Luck buddy.