Need. Help. From. Over. 49. Level. Characters.

[Hankomachos]

It doesn't matter if it is their first character. In fact, power leveling your first character is a great idea. Just like power leveling any other character a player might make is a good idea.

I'm intrigued by your logic, aikeibo. Please tell me, how does being power levelled make me a good player? How do I learn skill with a big ol' level 66 plowing through mobs while I gain xp for doing nothing? I'm up for a good discussion. Enlighten me!

On a side note, I didn't learn any good skill until I hit 55. No, I wasn't power levelled, I just couldn't grasp how to play my class well (at the time.) So, if it took me 55 levels to learn my class, how many levels will it take a power levelled level 65 to learn their class and play well?

[Aikiebo]

I'm up for a good discussion. Enlighten me!

Hey, Hank

Sorry it took you so long to learn to play. If, you had been power leveled, it wouldn't have taken so long.

I'm curious, I can tell by the tone of your threads/blog posts that you consider yourself to be a good player now. But, you said you weren't very good until lev 55. What happened at that point that made you a good player?

And once you learned to beckon and stomp properly, did you have to do that 63,000 times to learn how to do it well. I mean, those first 62,000 times that you tried, you simply failed? Did people call you 'noob'. Yeah, being called 'noob' 62,000 times must be ruff. I'm sorry if they did.

They, no one, has any right to be so judgemental. After all, it takes some folks 63,000 times of doing the same thing over and over again to learn how to do it 'properly'. Doesn't mean they are a noob, just means, that they are unique. Embrace the differences between peeps. DON'T HATE: APPRECIATE!!

So, people who are only level 45 (for example), and who haven't been lucky enough to power level, so.. are you saying they are really lousy, crappy players?

Or for the SL players who were at cap when the cap was 25. They were really lousy, crappy players because it is obvious that you can't get good in SL till level 40 (or w/e cap is for now, I don't play SL, lol)

Or, hmm.. are the current 40s in SL, no matter who they are or how good they think they are, are they really crappy players too? Because, the cap will eventually be raised higher. So, there not any good now. They all have to wait to get good?

Oh, no, wait..... I see what you're saying. We'll maybe I see, maybe I misuderstand. Let's see: Are you trying to say that all people learn at different rates? Some it takes longer. Some do it faster. That it depends on literally dozens of variables.

Are you saying that people learn at different speeds in different ways? That there is no one way to learn for everybody? If so, I'd have to totally agree with you.

[Hankomachos]

Hey, Hank

Sorry it took you so long to learn to play. If, you had been power leveled, it wouldn't have taken so long.

I'm curious, I can tell by the tone of your threads/blog posts that you consider yourself to be a good player now. But, you said you weren't very good until lev 55. What happened at that point that made you a good player?

And once you learned to beckon and stomp properly, did you have to do that 63,000 times to learn how to do it well. I mean, those first 62,000 times that you tried, you simply failed? Did people call you 'noob'. Yeah, being called 'noob' 62,000 times must be ruff. I'm sorry if they did.

They, no one, has any right to be so judgemental. After all, it takes some folks 63,000 times of doing the same thing over and over again to learn how to do it 'properly'. Doesn't mean they are a noob, just means, that they are unique. Embrace the differences between peeps. DON'T HATE: APPRECIATE!!

So, people who are only level 45 (for example), and who haven't been lucky enough to power level, so.. are you saying they are really lousy, crappy players?

Or for the SL players who were at cap when the cap was 25. They were really lousy, crappy players because it is obvious that you can't get good in SL till level 40 (or w/e cap is for now, I don't play SL, lol)

Or, hmm.. are the current 40s in SL, no matter who they are or how good they think they are, are they really crappy players too? Because, the cap will eventually be raised higher. So, there not any good now. They all have to wait to get good?

Oh, no, wait..... I see what you're saying. We'll maybe I see, maybe I misuderstand. Let's see: Are you trying to say that all people learn at different rates? Some it takes longer. Some do it faster. That it depends on literally dozens of variables.

Are you saying that people learn at different speeds in different ways? That there is no one way to learn for everybody? If so, I'd have to totally agree with you.

You're contradicting yourself a lot, or was that intended? Lol. Anyway

1) I blame the fact that I was full strength, and few of my pulls ever connected. Haha. Thanks to necroreaper; who wasn't power levelled, told me I needed dexterity for a higher hit percent. Mind you I was full strength up until level 55 or so. You ever see a full strength bear in sewer gear? Low hit% = Bad crowd control. Or did you not know that? Lol.


Enough about me, let's get back on topic, eh? We're talking about how power levelling makes us inexperienced players. I'm guessing you were power levelled, otherwise how would you have solid proof that power levelling does indeed, make us a better player?

But, that all comes down to our own opinion, right? You definitely can't convince me that power levelling makes me a good player, even though you're trying your hardest with your posts.

What it all comes down to is: I'd rather learn the hard way and excel in the long run, then be a power levelled level 64 with 3k kills and 700 deaths, who also doesn't know how to play their class well.

Wouldn't you?

[Aikiebo]

I wasn't power levelled when I started playing a bear. I learned my class eventually, on my own. Which is why I'm probably better than most bears who either 4xed to end-game levels, or were power levelled.

On a side note, I didn't learn any good skill until I hit 55.

Hey Hank,

I want to thank you for sharing your story with us. When someone get's something like that 'off their chest' it can make them feel better. And, I"m not ashamed to admit that I had to take a break to compose myself, becuase it was heart-wrenching.

But, that is only one reason I'm glad you shared your story. The second reason is this: You established proof for one of the main reasons why power leveling is so fantastic. In fact, I was moved.

I really want to thank you.

When people power level, they usually learn their class/game mechanics faster than most. But, let's not forget the unique ones who might use 4x combo and group or solo (in a few hours) all the way to 55 and not learn their class.

There is plenty of time. There is no reason, they have to slowbie all the way to the top. There is plenty of time.

People get to play their game their way. And no matter how conceited someone is, other people don't have to live up to the standards of the self-centered.

Power leveling 1 or even 2 characters to the top (or near top at least) is actually one of the very, very, very best ways to play a game you have never played before.

This is twice as true if this is the first mmo that someone has played.

[Aikiebo]

You're contradicting yourself a lot, or was that intended?

even though you're trying your hardest with your posts.

Uhh.... uhhhh... uhhhh... For someone who claims to prefer the high road, that wasn't appropriate at all.

I didn't contradict myself. Not at all. You know that. But, saying it like that, without pointing to examples is just the same as resorting to name calling cuz there is no substance to what you're saying.

Of course, you can't point to examples because there are none.

You are tying to make people think that what I am saying doesn't make sense. But, I didn't contradict myself. That's why you can't point to an example. Same way as if you said some name.

Criticism of the idea is ok - not criticism of the person (that's part of the forum rules, btw)

As far as me trying to convince you of anything, hmm... no - not at all. When, I started posting on this thread, I don't think you had even started participating yet. Geez.. It's not all about you, Hank, lol.

Bottom line: I didn' contradict myself. You know that. And, if you don't want to like power leveling, idc.

[Taipan]

1. Is power leveling a FANTASTIC way to play the game?

The answer to both questions, is of course yes.

I my opinion power leveling is NOT a "FANTASTIC" way to play the game

[Aikiebo]

But, that all comes down to our own opinion, right?

Nope! Not at all. I got facts, truck loads of 'em!

1) I blame the fact that I was full strength, and few of my pulls ever connected. Haha. Thanks to necroreaper; who wasn't power levelled, told me I needed dexterity for a higher hit percent. Mind you I was full strength up until level 55 or so.

So, Hank, I really gotta thank you again. You are doing reallly good. You have managed to prove yet another major point that shows that power leveling is such a excellent and fantastic way to level. I really appreciate your help, btw.

You, have admitted to everyone that you choose not to power level. You trudged through 63,000 points of xp the hard, long, slow way, not having any idea how to play your class. And no one helped you till you were 55 levels into this game.

This is exactly why there are SOMETIMES high level players who are not aware of certain aspects of game mechanics (either group mechanics or other parts of the game).

It's not because they were power leveled. It is because of the nature of this game. That sounds like a criticism, but its not. It is actually a compliment.

BTW, there are about 2 dozen HUGE reasons why power leveling is so awsome and many smaller reasons. We've only talked about 2 (and the second one not completely),

[anto]

why isn't Aikiebo a mod yet. ?

[Aikiebo]

I realize that what I said in my last post wasn't really complete, so I want to add this:

Why is it possible that sometimes a player gets to a high level and not know everything there is to know about the game. These are the reasons - think about these things:

1. the closed instances
2. auto grouping
3. extremely short group times
4. lack of guilds (for what, the first year and a half
5. running vs.standing still while fighting
6. lack of hard kbs
7. only a few quick chat and other chat options
8. being able to warp just about everywhere
9. and more*

These are all reasons that make it a chore, sometimes a challenge and often times an impossibility to actually take a few minutes or even more and actually help someone out.

Not to mention, that sometimes a few minutes just isn't enough time to explain.

Not to mention, that a lot of times when you do try to help someone they react in negative ways.

Those 9 reasons above, we need in this game. They all are good: very, very good. But, in old school mmo's we didn't have those things. Why did we help each other? Well, the list of reasons is a mile long. But, it boils down to: in order for us to meet our goals we had to help others.

That's not true in this game. You don't need to help anyone in order to succeed. The only time you help someone is to be nice, or some other optional motiviation.

You can totally ignore every player that needs help and still succeed. That is what many people do.

But, it's true today -- in this game. In order to get what you want, you don't HAVE TO help anyone. Sadly, many people don't take that time.

[Buubuuftw]

Nope! Not at all. I got facts, truck loads of 'em!

I disagree that powerleveling is a "fantastic way to play" but can you share some reasons why its so good? What can I get out of it other than fast leveling. I understand if you know how to play the game and your making another character just cause for PVP or just as an alt to play as then thats when I believe it's fine to get an elixer and buddy and rack up exp but not if its your first time playing the class. So, can I have a few reasons?

[Cool4ever100]

Welcome! I hope you can find as much help as you need, after all this community loves to help

[Aikiebo]

can you share some reasons why its so good? What can I get out of it other than fast leveling.

Thank you for asking. I know that this is a sensitive topic for many.

There are at least 2 dozen reasons why power leveling is extremely helpful and great way to play. This post talks about just one of those reasons. I will add to this thread to discuss the others.

[This post turned out to be super long. So, I am going to split it up between 3 posts. This way it will be easier to read. I'll just reserve the 2nd and 3rd posts. So, when I add the content, it won't bump the thread.]

I used to do what we called, 'training gigs'. It is here that a lot of advanced training happened. Being power leveled by me was like being in boot camp. Not because I acted like a drill seargent, but because it was very intensive. I power leveled friends and guildies and eventually people who knew my friends and guildies.

What ever area of game play that someone wanted help with is what we worked on.

One thing is when you are using the standard tank/dps/healer group mechanic, and you have done the same exact thing 100,000 times, or 200,000 times or more. You get real good at handling the mundane and predictable.

But, it is easy to get 'into a rut' so to speak.

What happens when something totally unexpected happens. Like a roamer spawns. The healer is getting beat on from behind and no one saw it coming. Your tank or healer goes link dead. Well sometimes folks couldn't handle the surprise, couldn't think on their feet, panicked and failed. So what to do about that?

In the controlled environment of a power leveling session, I could control the frequency and intensity of the 'surprise'. How? Well, while power leveling, I was always on my healer. I could hold agro for hours by healing.

People used to joke that the only reason I couldn't tank the dragon is cuz I didn't have the hp (it was a joke, healers didn't tank dragons). One place I used to go was these tents where 5 orcs would INSTA spawn.

The stream of attacks never ceased as long as you were standing in the tent. So, we'd go there. I'd hold agro while the group pounded away. But, at random intervals, I'd just stop healing. It only took a couple of seconds for all five orcs all of a sudden turn their attention to the group. It happened so fast, they didn't see it coming. And had to learn to think fast and act faster. I used these orc tents for other exercises as well.

[Aikiebo]

Whatever aspect of game play someone wanted to work on, we could devise multiple ways of improving their skill. Some of these ways, like the orc tents, I used for up to 18 months. I frequently ran timed trials and I got good at training mobs onto my group if that was needed.

One of the first things I'd do is when someone started, maybe they wanted to work on their healer (for example). I'd say "ok, but let's start by logging onto your tank. What? You don't have a tank. Ok, good, this is a great time to start. Let's go."

So, we'd start level 1's. And we'd level till he learned to tank. Then we'd work on his healer. You can learn so much more about your class, by learning other classes also. Everything I know about healing, true healing, I learned from tanks.

Long time ago, I was thinking up ways I could do this in Pocket Legends. But, no one seemed interested. There are a lot of similarities in game play between old school and our mmo. But, there are a lot of differences as well. I was working on an idea. I never finished or really tested it and fine tuned/tweaked it to completion because no one seemed to be interested.

But, I remember how people used to hate the traps and barrels in the sewers. So a training gig similar in style to what I used to do could happen in the second map of Wyldwood. (After I planned it out carefully, went down there for multiple testing, and me and few friends beta'ed it.) I would go there on prob a level 23 toon. (Not so low, I'd insta die, but low enough to be vunerable) I'd run around like a nut, getting in los, just generally putting myself in harm's way. And my group would have to save me with out setting off barrels while I was near by. I'd get past traps constantly. They'd have to learn the timing to follow.

Then of course, usually, when we figured we did everything we could do in Wyldwood, we'd hop on toons high enough to go to the sewers and do the same thing there, lol.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea to do. Working the sewers is not that complicated. I am just trying to show what I mean by training gig by giving an example.

But, when I say that being power leveled allows a player to stand tall with the best on the server, what do I mean by that?

[Aikiebo]

Well, once a guy has performed the motions of standard group mechanics enough times, he can get real, real good. So good in fact his brilliance lights up the night sky. But it is easy to fall into a trap.

He might get to the point where he figures -- I won't say he thinks that he knows it all -- I'll just say, he figures that there isn't anything else to learn. He stops even trying and sinks into a love/hate relationship with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

OTOH, there's the player, who is worried about a certain skill, insecure about a particular aspect of game play. In fact, I've seen lists by players with over 20 areas they wanted to improve. This is the guy who says, "ok, let's go, when can we get started". "I'd like to do some of this before the weekend for w/e reason" "Com'on, let's start".

This is the guy who keeps trying and trying, learning and learning, just getting better and better.

This is the guy who doesn't have to keep reminding people how good he is. People know, they can see it for themselves.

This is the guy that can handle anything, anywhere, anytime instead of just the routine and mundane.

This is the guy with less medical bills cuz of that Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

[StompArtist]

This is the guy with less medical bills cuz of that Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

LMAO

[NECROREAPER]

In your post above, you're regarding to "training" as power leveling, which re two totally different things.


Training is something I whole-heartedly agree with since it does promote good teamwork, a better understanding of the fundamentals of how to play your class individually and in a group setting, provides direct feedback and guidance from someone with more experience, and it also helps to promote friendship and overall good feelings in game.

However, the power leveling you speak of and the power leveling the rest of the community envisions when the word is said are not the same thing. The power leveling we're referring to is the blatant leeching of xp from a higher level character who does all the work while the lower level character just reaps all the benefits. THIS power leveling promotes bad team mechanics, no idea how to play their class effectively and proficiently, high level "noobs," and generally "bad looks" from people.

The power leveling that I (and the majority of the community) is referring to is the one that helps to destroy the game. Back in the AO2/AO3 days, we had GREAT tanks, GREAT healers, and GREAT birds. Names of players who excelled at their class quickly arose: Tankaar, Ellyidol, Apollo, etc., and they were recognized because of their great understanding of not only their class, but also team dynamics and fundamentals. Nowadays, there are no new "Elly's or Tankaar's" because a lot of high level end game players still have no idea what they're doing in the dungeons, *especially* in a team environment. Power leveling is predominately to blame, although there are other factors that come in to play here as well.

This is where YOUR version of power leveling comes in. By "training" them, you can remove their training scars and help them to become better players, have a better understanding of their class, and even be a better asset to the community since they can in turn go out and train less educated players themselves.

[Aikiebo]

two totally different things.

Training is something I whole-heartedly agree with

generally "bad looks" from people.

The power leveling that I (and the majority of the community) is referring to

Necro, advanced training and simply fast leveling are 2 parts of the same thing.

Fast leveling is a very important part of power leveling. I simply started where I started cuz buubuuftw asked specifically what is there more than just fast leveling. So can we keep this a real friendly tone. I don't know if you were getting upset in the above post. But please don't. No need to. I started where I started mearly to answer buubuuftw's question.

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of fast leveling. But, power leveling has both these major parts. One is not better or more important than the other.

I know that most people on the forum just think of it as fast leveling. I have said, dozens of times that it is more than just that tho. Cuz, it is. And if need be, I can explain that in detail.

Fast/power leveling can be where a high level and low level go together and get fast xp. Or, can be the use of elixirs to speed up xp.

[Omg, I just noticed you said 'bad looks'. That's not supposed to be a euphanism for 'frowned upon', is it?lol, that's funny. I mean this in a good, kind way. I think that is funny. Haha]

Ok, back to the post, lol.

Mynas Gen: If I was a player who knew nothing about power leveling, but was playing back then and lived through that ridic mess, you know what??? I'd hate power leveling too. But, in all complete honesty and sincerity, power leveling is so much more.

I don't just mean the advance training. I mean actual wonderful benefits to elixir use and/or high level helping method.

But, I want to talk about ^^^ in my next post. Cuz I don't want to make this too long AND

I have one serious issue with some of you post: Please lets stay calm. But, the idea, that I see, well, fairly often, certainly too often, that the original players of PL are the last great ones and there will never be others that are as good, or maybe even good at all.

Can you pause and hear what your saying. Don't you think that is really rude and kinda arrogant? I really believe you don't mean it that way. You are upset at things you don't totally understand or agree with, I see that. But, to say there are no great players today is a very awful thing to say. What do you think people are thinking when they read that. Don't you think it is insulting?

And the reason MAYBE there are no big names like their used to be has:

1. Not only has nothing to do with power leveling

2. It has nothing to do with any game play at all

3. It has to do with the things that people say on the forum.

What if people kept telling you that you never gonna amount to anything?

Please think, about what other people are thinking.

And, power leveling has got nothing to do with that.

I'm gonna respond to more of what you said, I'm not trying to avoid anything. Just don't want to make this too long. Ok?

[NECROREAPER]

No bad tones intended in my above post. I'll post my retort later, I'm at the beach

[Lowlyspy]

Meh aikiebo, shorten your posts dude. You add spaces and start new paragraphs when they don't need to be started, these are the main reasons people never fully read all your posts, too much to read. (yes I have plenty better things to do than read your 6 page essay posts) Paragraphs are 4-5 sentences, not 1-2 sentences bud.

Grammar Nazi, Awayyyy!

[Hankomachos]

there is no substance to what you're saying.

Thank you for bringing this up! It had me thinking... do your "arguments" have any substance? It's not like you have any solid proof that power levelling makes you a better player.
Like I said, it's all opinion. You may think otherwise, but that backs up my point; it's all opinion. Just like I can't prove not being power levelled makes me a better player. Although, I know that me being not power levelled made me a better player, however, I can't speak for others. Just like you can't either.

Side note, I'm so touched my story moved you. If only others would follow in my footsteps, they would be great players too.