Poll: Should volcano vanity give a bonus with other vanities?

[Walkhardd]

For those with ONLY 66 vanity, check out my compensation thread.

[Brave Sir Robin]

I don't really analyze a game this far...I just play...I'll let STS think about these things and just accept it, they're the game developers after all...as long as there's no significant glitches or imbalances, I'm just a gamer after all...I play games not make them. If I don't like the game, I get out and look for another.

Thank you for your input, friend.

I would like to point out that if you buy a car and it does not work, you claim your money back. You don't just accept that you bought a broken car.
Similarly, if you buy a crafting recipe that doesn't work, you will ask for your platinum back or request a fix. You don’t quit the game just because of that, right?

In our case, some people paid a fair amount of platinum (sometimes > 700) to reach cap so that their toon would get a bonus. So they paid for a service (at least this is what most of us argue here, that the bonus was, in our opinion, promised to us) that in the end they did not receive. They therefore have the right to claim a refund or a compensation of some sort.

In my opinion again, the company should have warned the customers about the vanity bonus situation and protect them from spending their platinum. I guess they were busy bringing out Humania and forgot about it, but now many customers are disappointed.

I posted some ideas previously in this thread but I would like to see other suggestions as well. Another idea would be to give to all those people the 71 vanity after the release of the new campaign (lvl 76) even if they didn't reach lvl. 71 during the Humania cap period. Or, if they capped one toon, all their toons receive the vanity helm.

[gibol1412]

I think there will be no change with this vanity "problem" and this topic is waste of time. Well, my second character with only Mount Fang armor will be a little waste of time and platinum. Good luck everyone And don't worry be happy

[vampinoy]

Thank you for your input, friend.

I would like to point out that if you buy a car and it does not work, you claim your money back. You don't just accept that you bought a broken car.
Similarly, if you buy a crafting recipe that doesn't work, you will ask for your platinum back or request a fix. You don’t quit the game just because of that, right?

In our case, some people paid a fair amount of platinum (sometimes > 700) to reach cap so that their toon would get a bonus. So they paid for a service (at least this is what most of us argue here, that the bonus was, in our opinion, promised to us) that in the end they did not receive. They therefore have the right to claim a refund or a compensation of some sort.

In my opinion again, the company should have warned the customers about the vanity bonus situation and protect them from spending their platinum. I guess they were busy bringing out Humania and forgot about it, but now many customers are disappointed.

I posted some ideas previously in this thread but I would like to see other suggestions as well. Another idea would be to give to all those people the 71 vanity after the release of the new campaign (lvl 76) even if they didn't reach lvl. 71 during the Humania cap period. Or, if they capped one toon, all their toons receive the vanity helm.

Nobody forced anyone into buying anything in this game...let's qualify that at least. The payments you are referring to are voluntary purchases made by players who wish to enhance their experience even further. So let's say in your example of a car purchase, the car itself is free as how PL is, but you have the option to buy accessories or modifiers to enhance your ride as how elixirs and other stuff is in PL. Nobody said that you should spend 700 platinum to cap? As far as I know, one can still reach the cap without elixir. How can you ask for a refund when the game itself is free? You, in fact, should be thanking STS for providing a decent game for free (you have to admit the game itself is decent at the very least), and they're finding their own means of earning money within the game, that's a lot of work I know because I worked in a game development company a couple of years back, they could easily charge the game for one month and sit back and relax once their financial quota has been reached, but no, STS has to work every day to provide for content so people will buy them not force them. I salute F2P developers more than P2P.

I respect your opinion, but I don't see why STS should be obliged to divulge this information to anyone. Have you ever seen a game pre-launch being spoiled by their own creators? Have you attended a gaming convention like E3? I did...and I guarantee you ALL pertinent details within the game are never divulged until an actual demo has been released...even then, it's still just a demo and many things (some even important) are not divulged. So by virtue of common practice, STS is still within the bounds of gaming ethics. So please don't speak as if STS has breached some sort of gaming agreement or something.

Like I said, I don't really go too deep in my games, I just play them and give my reviews to friends. I don't try to "make" the game, especially, if it's non-subscription. I know this will sound a cliche but it's still "just a game", you play the game...then there are those who make the game...you give your reviews...based on your review, it's up to the developers to listen but you're not supposed to cross the line by telling them developers what to do...anyway, I've wasted enough time replying to this, I'll just go log back in and farm Humania.

[Lowlyspy]

Ahh, remember the good old days when vanities were what the definition of the word said they were? I sure do, miss them too. Good times.

[Buddyf97]

Can somebody tell me where it says it would make a whole new set?

[TANKKAAR]

Can somebody tell me where it says it would make a whole new set?

The first person to say this was Moth... And we all know how about rumors spread in pocket legends but I have found nothing to support this. I'm really hoping they just need to figure out what the bonus will be and that were all worrying for nothing

[Aniey]

Of course yes, they should give bonus. I only have the fang armor. If STS doesnt gives bonus, there are no point for lvl uping for the users that only have 66 armor.

[Chopper]

I agree that the developers never promised that the new vanity helm would work with the old pieces, but it certainly was pushed to make it appear that way, with all the encouragement, sales, announcements, etc. to get people to buy platinum to grab the Fang Armour before it was too late.

ALSO, in addition, the Devs clearly were monitoring the threads on this board when people were complaining about a new helm making the COP useless, etc. They knew that players were under the clear impression/assumption that the new piece would work with the old pieces, and they did nothing about it, nor did they chime in to clarify, as people were paying money to grab the Fang armour in time.

I think the did a great job fixing all the bugs in the update, but this one aspect does remain fishy. If they did this kind of thing in other fields, like securities/share offerings, they would be enticing lawsuits over misrepresentations.

[vampinoy]

In response to the claim that there was never anything mentioned about a "new set" or that there was "no clear position taken by STS": I found this post by Samhayne that basically infers that a new set is upon us, and poetically describes how and why these things will happen:



Mothwing was not the first one to say but no less than Samhayne himself. If you read the paragraph carefully, you would deduce that the Crown of Persistence was inferred to as "old" when Samhayne used the phrase "cities rise and fall", he also said the same thing will happen to Nuri's Shield and Mt. Fang Armor...and inferred to as the new vanity helm (being the green helmet) as the new vanity. If you like poetry, like I do, you will know that when you use that popular catchphrase "cities rise and fall" it also connotes that whatever substance is bound within the "old city" is lost forever...within the memories of the people who witnessed it, in this case, the bonus stat of the old vanities will go down with it...that's the direct meaning of it. I don't think Samhayne used this catchphrase for no reason at all, he must have meant something without directly offending people, he was probably talking to our poetic minds and from the looks of it he overestimated us because his message apparently did not go seep in. I am sorry for the people who only have the Mt. Fang Armor, but the reality of having elite vanities is and was never primarily about the bonus (as you can analyze in this post by Samhayne, specifically when he used the term "recognize as old school...")...it's primarily about symbology and bonus secondary, if it was meant to cause power as primary reason, then it would be more prevalent like the Angel Set, but it's not. When Samhayne posted this, he was plainly referring to the "symbology of the elite cap vanity" and implies that being that it's a "symbol of old", it cannot mesh with the "symbol of new" including its culture (in this case the stat bonus). You must see this in this angle for you to move on, otherwise, you will keep on hating. STS is coming from a deeper point of view of the elite vanities (symbology), and if you argue based on something superficial (that of the bonus) then you will not be making a connection, you're coming from two totally different positions, in a debate, that's when you say the cliche "agree to disagree" because you will never come to an agreement. That's all. Hope you guys find your peace, and just play the game.

[Swimmingstar]

That is wholly inaccurate. Reaching 56 was 84k, and at that time it took much more xp just to get to 55z Factor in that we didn't have x4 elixirs back in the day, it was truly a hard (read: elite) accomplishment.

Actually they did have 4x elixirs added around sewers time I think.

55-56 was 83,840 xp.

And I have to agree everything took A LOT more xp.

[vampinoy]

It was never made clear exactly how the sets would work, and there was a lot of discussion on whether or not the 71 vanity helm would replace the cop in the set. I don't recall a clear position from STS on what exactly would be happening.

During the build up to Humania there was a fair amount of advertisement and emphasis put towards players getting the elite vanity. There were elixer sales and even a platinum sale in the months prior to the release. Now I'd be willing to bet that the PL player base increased substantially between nuri and fang, and even more so between fang and humania with the (8 month?) endless wait.

For every player who began playing during mt fang there was absoloutley no reason to believe that once they grinded their way to 66, after countless elixers thrown out the door, all that work would be for absoloutley nothing. Even for the players who have been playing since the Nuri campaign, it was never made clear that unless you started playing 6 months earlier you'll never get a full set. Even now the level 71 vanity is useless to everyone until the next campaign comes out; and who knows when that's going to be?

So essentially mt fang armor on its own is a 300+ platinum piece of vanity armor with no stats, even when combined with another 300+ platinum vanity helmet both are nothing but eye candy, and I use that term lightly.

I can't think of a universally friendly way to fix this issue, but until something is done I wont bother going for 71, which is a shame because I now have a whole lot of useless platinum.

Please refer to my previous post, there was a clear position by no less than Samhayne...but one just needs to be more attentive and use deeper analogy to digest the full meaning of it.

EDIT: I provided a screenshot

[Buddyf97]

Oops! Copying links now...

[Chopper]

Ha, there was nothing "clear" about that response by the devs.

Cities rise and fall? Yes, replaced by other cities. I says nothing about abandoning entire continents and starting from scratch somewhere else. They did not say, that the new helm would not work wi previous pieces, or that the fang armour that they were pushing so hard would be essentially useless with future pieces.

[Wthlite]

Yeah, Id also say no, its part of a new vainity set, and there shouldnt be 2 helmets to match a set.

[vampinoy]

Ha, there was nothing "clear" about that response by the devs.

Cities rise and fall? Yes, replaced by other cities. I says nothing about abandoning entire continents and starting from scratch somewhere else. They did not say, that the new helm would not work wi previous pieces, or that the fang armour that they were pushing so hard would be essentially useless with future pieces.

That's what I meant when I said the message within the context did not seep in. There was no bold statement to address this issue, and for a good reason, Samhayne knows that people will react negatively which explains the phrase "Thanks in advance for your understanding" to end his post, he spoke in poetics to cushion the blow (sometimes all it takes are the right words), he wouldn't be saying that particular phrase if he knew no friction would happen. He was hoping that "you" understand their position on the matter, which "in with new, out with the old", that would also imply that no connection between the old and the new will be present as far as the bonus as what the catchphrase "Cities rise and fall" implies, because how can a fallen city (CoP) still exist in form of bonus if it already fell? How can a mountain (CoP) continue to house trees if it's barren? or How can a sea (CoP) continue to provide marine life if it's dry? Just like a fallen city, dead mountain, and dried sea, what Samhayne is trying to say is anything functional about CoP will cease to exist in relation to the new ones (by this time, he was hinting that they will start from scratch, just to answer you), but as consolation, CoP's memory (a good one) will still remain and people in the know will talk about it, just like the fallen city was once grand, how the dead mountain was once green, and how the dead see was once deep. Please refer back to my longer post on how I interpreted Samhayne's poetic statements. STS position is clear as daylight, one would need to just take their time and analyze that particular post.

PS: The metaphors used are popularly used in many books, Samhayne chose to use them to show their position, he could have chosen what you're suggesting about continents, but it wouldn't change the core message which is the old one's time has ended...that is the message, don't look at the words literally, that's poetry. You'll be amazed how a single line in a poem can mean an entire essay my friend.

PSS: Like What I said, STS is coming from a deeper point of view, true they were pushing Mt. Fang armor but they never said anything about the "old" elite vanities having bonus when combined with the new. Their primary reason for pushing you so you could get the elite vanity as a symbol status. When they were pushing the Mt.Fang armor, they mentioned something about getting associated bonus, that's "if" you already have the Nuri's Shield or the CoP. Let me quote Samhayne: "So, to reiterate, if you want the Mt. Fang vanity armor reward for getting to level 66 and the associated set bonus that goes along with it and other elite cap vanity items, now would be the time to get it!". If you'll notice, he did not infer anything about the Mt. Fang Armor having bonus stat with new elite cap vanities, he said "associated bonus" which made this statement "open-ended" and not definitive. After a couple of days, Samhayne then posted his poetic position on the matter to make the previously "open-ended statement to a more definitive" but people seem to totally be oblivious of this, it's like Samhayne never said anything, some even went as far and said it was "never" addressed. So you see, it's "miscommunication" where someone spoke and nobody listened.

[Walkhardd]

Tl;dr

Where does sam say 66 cap won't pair with 71?

[IshoootU]

YES YES YES! it was implied in SamHayne's post. That is what i thought and so did many others. If it wasnt "clear" then its really STS's fault for not making it clear. Why would they urge people to get the vanity as 'part of the set' when it really doesnt work with the next elite vanity? As also mentioned above, nobody said the l71 cap is part of a new set and will NOT work with MFA. I see it as intentional false advertising at best and downright robbery at worst.

But hey, PL is a great game and i will likely continue playing and capping. It just sucks they went from making great games to ugly profiteering. I hope they make it right for people who have the MFA. just sayin.

[vampinoy]

@ Walkhard - Please read my posts, if it's TLR that's too bad, my entire post centered around answering your question.

@ IshoootU - It was clear, please read my posts. People refuse to understand what the obvious is saying maybe they want to hear only what's favorable to them. I'm not flaming you, I'm actually neutral on the issue, I could care less whether there's a bonus or not, I'm only analyzing what's factual not hearsay. I can see a valid reason why there should not be a bonus, and it was foretold, nobody just cared to listen as what I already pointed out in my previous posts. Like Walkhard, it seems that you did not read my posts as it's TLR, again, that's too bad...because it contained the explanation I feel that can show you the other side of the coin.

PS: How can you accuse STS of robbing you if the game is free in the first place? All our purchases are only game enhancers...you're being too hard on STS. False Marketing maybe, but again, you cannot accuse them of not informing you of what's going to happen, I just provided a dev's post informing everyone of the upcoming new sets and its effects to the old elite vanities - you, along with many, just refused or did not bother to digest it. I'm sorry that's how I see it, it's clear as daylight, the devs had a definitive position before Humania was even released. It will just boil down to if you agree or disagree, now that, whatever your position I'd respect, but I'll be siding with STS since I'm playing their game for free.

[Chopper]

PS: How can you accuse STS of robbing you if the game is free in the first place? All our purchases are only game enhancers...you're being too hard on STS. False Marketing maybe, but again, you cannot accuse them of not informing you of what's going to happen, I just provided a dev's post informing everyone of the upcoming new sets and its effects to the old elite vanities - you, along with many, just refused or did not bother to digest it. I'm sorry that's how I see it, it's clear as daylight, the devs had a definitive position before Humania was even released. It will just boil down to if you agree or disagree, now that, whatever your position I'd respect, but I'll be siding with STS since I'm playing their game for free.

This argument is pushed out a lot about it being a "free" game. Hate to break it to ya, but it is not. The Devs made this game to make money. period. Nothing wrong with that but that is the business model that has been established. They make it by selling platinum to it's users for in game purchases. Without it, they would not make the game. From there, they clearly pushed the Mt Fang armour recently, and they saw exactly the discussions on the board about the new vanity and how it would make the COP useless. They chose not to clarify this very obvious issue with a simple statement that the new vanity helm does not work with older pieces. It's not simply that they didn't say that it would work, but they let people go on and on about how it would work with the old sets and let people buy up platinum on that misunderstanding.

I love a lot of the new update, but this one issue still smells like a misleading cash grab. That's the impression that comes across for a lot of the long standing players.