To rush, or not to rush? (An exhaustive examination of the infamous concept of rushin

[ninjaduck]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because it brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

[Waug]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because it brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

ewwwww lag

[Ubernewber]

I'm one of the duuuuuuuuuuuuuq's rushing if fun

[Ubernewber]

Rushing is brilliant. It triggers a sudden tension between the victim and the rusher. This means everything gets more fun. No excuses. Its now your job to keep yourself alive, and to keep the reputation of being a successful rusher. The kind of people I hate are people that literally have a list of excuses ready.

Some of the excuses:

1. lag
2. phone call
3. text
3. teleport
4. hacker
5. forgotten bow
6. pumpkin chunker
7. pink snow
8. ping
9. lag spike
10. missed stomp. (my favourite. i acually lol when someone says it)
11. brother was using phone
12. im on pc
13. im on phone
14. im on ipad.


You get my jist? Rushing is fun because brings out the moral and social weaknesses within the victim. A mature person would simply play along, and do a 1v1 FFA until someone (usually me ) calls a truce. By doing THIS, you can see the opponent's strengths, and possibly have a long lasting friendship

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

I fell the same way :P

[MightyMicah]

And what you said about Rusher KD being bad. That is bogus. Just pick your opponents more wisely.

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

[crestmage]

I think that they should just make a pvp map for FFA and some that you have to say go or you cant kill the opposing team I don't know if they can do that or not but if they can they should it would make pvp much more fun. Then there are teamers which I find everytime I go into a pvp match. So I am just going to CTF from now on

EVERY map is supposed to be FFA styled, actually. Read the descriptions.

[crestmage]

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

Or just spend 2 plat and everything's hidden

[ninjaduck]

It seems we don't disagree about the concept of rushing being bad for your kdr. It seems where we disagree is in the very definition of a "rusher." Look at Jop. That is, in my opinion, the prime definition of a rusher. If you rush like Jop, there is no possible way to get a "good" kdr. That is, of course, assuming that 2-1 or less is not "good." I happen to think a 2-1 kdr is quite excellent indeed.

I've rushed Jop and I've won

I've rushed Kawa and I've won.

These are just like one night stands, they won't happen again. Its just luck. Why you would want to rush Jop again I don't know.

[MightyMicah]

I've rushed Jop and I've won

I've rushed Kawa and I've won.

These are just like one night stands, they won't happen again. Its just luck. Why you would want to rush Jop again I don't know.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't mean "rush like Jop" as in rush Jop. I mean rush with the mentality of Jop. In other words, rush everyone in sight. A true rusher rushes his friends and his foes. That is my definition of a true rusher. With that definition, 2-1 kdr is about as good as it gets.

[ninjaduck]

That's where you're wrong.

This:

A true rusher rushes his friends and his foes. That is my definition of a true rusher.

is the definition of an insult that a victim will call the attacker.

This:

...rush everyone in sight

is the true definition.

[MightyMicah]

That's where you're wrong.

This:




is the definition of an insult that a victim will call the attacker.

This:



is the true definition.

I agree. And, with that definition, no one will achieve a good kdr. My first statement in the thread still stands, once again, assuming 2-1 kdr is not "good."

[ninjaduck]

I agree. And, with that definition, no one will achieve a good kdr. My first statement in the thread still stands, once again, assuming 2-1 kdr is not "good."

To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

[MightyMicah]

To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

You're off track, man. We were discussing whether or not rushing is good for the kdr. You said it was, I said it wasn't. Clearly we disagree. Thanks for the discussion!

[ninjaduck]

[QUOTE=MightyMicah:834213]

To get a good KDR, you have to be good. Thats it. Jop is good. Restlessss is good. If you have a 2-1 KDR as a rusher, you aren't all that good.

You're off track, man. We were discussing whether or not rushing is good for the kdr. You said it was, I said it wasn't. Clearly we disagree. Thanks for the discussion![/QUOTE

Gf.

[saool]

haven't read the untrue thread...I will though lol
But yeah I rush rushers, and tend to get rushed too! It's fun, and well that's why I don't care much for my KDR names it more interesting. Only thing I don't like is teams when you're alone. So unfair. Specially when they call their guild to fill up spots on my side where I could get my own team to help. Oh well some people are like that. As for being called noob well if they require a team against one person to kill them then it goes to show how the real noob is... Just saying. Overall fun fun!

[vampinoy]

I read the whole thing, it's a nice read. You pretty much covered what I have to say, so I'll just rehash it a little bit.

I think rushing is part of PvP based on my experience in gaming. I played a lot of MMORPGs with thief/rogue/assassin class/builds that can either stealth, have insane range (so far, you don't see them from your field of vision), or a combination of both...that allows me to kill an opponent instantly (or deplete their hp significantly) before they can even unsheathe their weapon. I played MOBA games (Starcraft, DOTA, League of Legends) where teaming and ganking is key to victory. I played FPS MMORPGs that has players camping or hiding and tries to kill you on your blindside.

PvP is a stand alone mechanic not exclusive to MMORPGs, that's what you didn't mention - from Action-Adventure, MMO, RTS, Puzzle, FPS, etc. Currently, PvP games exist in the form of MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) and those games are the ones specializing on PvP and nothing else, everything PvP. MMORPGs simply integrated this mechanic, however, PvP on its own already have precedents and rich history. Pocket Legends and its PvP is an infant game if you compare it to the rich history of PvP, that's why there are precedents from earlier gamers and developers alike, so present gamers and developers can follow it and not make the same mistakes. I'm saying it now, the community is repeating a mistake that's already been seen in the past.

Reading your composition, you are letting current (young in virtual scene) players define how PvP should be in this game when in fact it has already been determined by older generations of gamers that began writing it even before you were born (that long history)...so the PL community is making the mistake of ignoring the precedents and start from scratch!!! People will make the same mistake over and over if they're not guided by precedents. You think previous gamers didn't have players who were emotional too? or didn't get butt hurt whenever someone ganked them? They did too...This game is not immune to the pitfalls that previous PvP games has made, that's why precedents are very useful as a guide...if you let players define PvP without guidance of precedents, and just try to define it on their own, then expect it to see the same erasures

This issue of rushing has already been encountered in the past and has now been resolved and recorded in anals of history of gaming, why make the same mistake? Why go through the same thing? It has already been proven a myth. Example, remember the rushing issue on Zergs in Starcraft back in the 90s? Everyone despised that, until people became more learned in the art of defending their base properly (Zerg rushing became obsolete). That's the reason why we have the term "Zerging" now referring to people rushing in groups. Now PL is making the same mistake, like how players in Starcraft despised Zerg rushing before...so too are PL despising rushing here...it's the same banana...history repeating itself...sadly, nobody or minority are guided by precedents..

I don't think real life age has got anything to do with this, it's more of people's age in the virtual scene...the culprit is because PL is a mobile game where many players have very little to no experience in gaming as a whole. The players in PL would not be gamers if it weren't available in their mobile phones. So your player base is filled "circumstantial players" that without that given circumstance (mobile phone) they wouldn't even be playing an MMO, that's crucial for this issue because that explains why the culture is very "emotional", they're just not prepared or ripe compared to a guy who bought an entire PC rig just to play a game...who probably looked up everything about MMOS before he even unboxed his game. Go to PC, and you'll see true gamers there that go out of their way to play games, read up history, research just about anything and everything, everyone's bringing their A-game, a lot of people playing devoid of emotions and just all about being the best, and some even make careers out of it. The difference in culture is astounding. That's why it's trying to write its own history...which means repeating the same mistakes just in a little bit different form.

I'm calling it now, bookmark this post, PL will eventually be FFA-centric with 1on1 duels. Eventually people will wake up and just FFA each other while 1on1 will be limited to duel maps. It's inevitable as seen in history. In fact, this thread is already a pulse that FFA generation is making some noise. You said it yourself, it only takes one person to rush and the entire room erupts, soon (far soon)...that will be the norm. Soon, the FFA crazies will outnumber the 1on1s, it will take (a lot) time true (just as how PC gaming took decades to evolve too), but that's how history unfolds, slowly but surely. I'm not predicting, it already happened...just in another game years ago..I'm quoting This is De ja Vu to gamers like me who've been around for a while... ...and I believe this is the reason why hardcore gamers (mostly PC) don't last very long here...they get turned off by this...it feels like it's step back to the evolution of gaming.

For those TLR: Rushing, Ganking, Teaming, whatever else you call it that involves killing other people is part of PvP.

PS: I'm not saying anyone reads up on history and start educating themselves. This is just how I interpret it. A different perspective. Just step back a little bit and ponder...what if nobody is rushing at all? What if everyone is inclined to ask permission before they kill someone, imagine how the entire PvP universe would change...just thinking about it gives me the creeps, such a boring world that be, and I might as well just buy a Street Fighter game instead, what difference does it make? That's one of the enjoyable things that's in PvP that's not in a fighting game, the element of surprise? Right?

PSS: I also think a major factor is non-action of the developer itself. There are many ways to trigger FFA culture for instance put a TIME LIMIT, that simple...and you get additional seconds of stay in the PvP arena the more you kill people, if you run out of time, you'll aumatically get booted... ...or remove chat from opposing teams...or automatic shuffling of players unless it's tournament format...etc. many ways...It feels like the developer itself doesn't want to foster too much competitive gameplay (maybe to avoid griefing but that's an inevitable aspect, it's like yin and yang, you can't have one thing and not have the other). There are many ways to push the action. Ciao!

[Yich]

I read the whole thing, it's a nice read. You pretty much covered what I have to say, so I'll just rehash it and make it a shorter.

I think rushing is part of PvP based on my experience in gaming. I played a lot of MMORPGs with thief/rogue/assassin class/builds that can either stealth, have insane range (so far, you don't see them from your field of vision), or a combination of both...that allows me to kill an opponent instantly (or deplete their hp significantly) before they can even unsheathe their weapon. I played MOBA games (Starcraft, DOTA, League of Legends) where teaming and ganking is key to victory. I played FPS MMORPGs that has players camping or hiding and tries to kill you on your blindside.

PvP is a stand alone mechanic not exclusive to MMORPGs, that's what you didn't mention - from Action-Adventure, MMO, RTS, Puzzle, FPS, etc. Currently, PvP games exist in the form of MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) and those games are the ones specializing on PvP and nothing else, everything PvP. MMORPGs simply integrated this mechanic, however, PvP on its own already have precedents and rich history. Pocket Legends and its PvP is an infant game if you compare it to the rich history of PvP, that's why there are precedents from earlier gamers and developers alike, so they can follow it and not make the same mistakes. I'm saying it now, the community is repeating a mistake that we've already seen in the past.

Reading your composition, you are letting players define how PvP should be in this game when in fact it has already been determined by older generations of gamers even before you were born (that long history)...so you're making the mistake of ignoring the precedents and starting from scratch. People will make the same mistake over and over if they're not guided by precedents. This game is not immune to the pitfalls that previous PvP has made, that's why precedents are very useful.

This issue of rushing has already been encountered in the past and has now been resolved and recorded in anals of history of gaming, why make the same mistake? Why go through the same thing? It has already been proven a myth. Example, remember the rushing issue on Zergs in Starcraft back in the 90s? Everyone despised that, until people became more learned in the art of defending their base properly (Zerg rushing became obsolete). That's the reason why we have the term "Zerging" now referring to people rushing in groups. Now PL is making the same mistake, like how players in Starcraft despised Zerg rushing before...so too are PL despising rushing here...it's the same banana...history repeating itself...sadly, nobody or minority are guided by precedents..

I don't think real life age has got anything to do with this, it's more of people's age in the virtual scene...the culprit is because PL is a mobile game where many players have very little to no experience in gaming as a whole. The players in PL would not be gamers if it weren't available in their mobile phones. Go to PC, and you'll see true gamers there that go out of their way to play games. The difference in culture is astounding. That's why it's trying to write its own history...which means repeating the same mistakes.

I'm calling it now, bookmark this post, PL will eventually be FFA-centric with 1on1 duels. Eventually people will wake up and just FFA each other while 1on1 will be limited to duel maps. I'm not predicting, it already happened...just in another game years ago This is De ja Vu to gamers like me who've been around for decades.

Me and my gang will still sit if you rush the opposing team and we have a friend on it. lol. If you have a problem with it and all you do is rush, you can't really do anything to solve it. You can mindlessly rush though, that you can do.

[MightyMicah]

@Vampinoy,

Thanks so much! I can tell you read my thread all the way through! I, as wells read your post all the way through. My only question is, why do you think Pocket Legends is repeating a mistake? Couldn't another perspective say that the mistake is no mistake at all? In other words, couldn't someone say that 1v1 is the way things should be and that history is wrong? I mean, it's not like history can't be wrong. Take Guild Wars 2 for instance. They've broken away from all kinds of traditional mmorpg ideas. Why shouldn't Pocket Legends be "evolving" forwards instead of backwards with its ideas about 1v1 being the "right" way to pvp?

[vampinoy]

@Vampinoy,

Thanks so much! I can tell you read my thread all the way through! I, as wells read your post all the way through. My only question is, why do you think Pocket Legends is repeating a mistake? Couldn't another perspective say that the mistake is no mistake at all? In other words, couldn't someone say that 1v1 is the way things should be and that history is wrong? I mean, it's not like history can't be wrong. Take Guild Wars 2 for instance. They've broken away from all kinds of traditional mmorpg ideas. Why shouldn't Pocket Legends be "evolving" forwards instead of backwards with its ideas about 1v1 being the "right" way to pvp?

You've a good point there. That's also possible. History could be wrong and PL is in a noble journey in rewriting history. Only time can tell. Anyway, When that time comes and Pocket Legends is proven correct that rushing/ganking/teaming/etc. is indeed "bad", then all the other games that I played and still playing that promotes rushing/ganking/teaming/etc. will become obsolete. I'm talking about MOBA games, FPS MMORPGs, MMORPG with PvP servers, yada yada yada. They cannot co-exist because both schools of thought are oil and water, either it's rushing or 1v1 in a PvP zone. Only time can tell. For now, PL is the underdog because the rushing thing has already been considered a myth by majority of the MMO games out there (talking about the top ones). Most consider the art of stealth and killing by surprise part of your "skill set".
I'm sure you know this being a fellow GW2 player That culture holds true in Rift and WoW btw, I also play those two just to PvP. They have arenas (WoW) that once everyone's in, it's just kill kill kill, if you blink or go soft for a second, you die...or a in Rift, while quietly going about your business doing your quests in open world PvP maps, someone one shots you behind your back (LOL!) which forces you as a low level to move unseen or know the blindsides of other players (a very useful player skill).

I think one good addition in PvP mechanic that's lacking in PL is the inability to lobby games. Meaning, you don't start until both sides are complete and there's a time limit. I'm sure STS knows that, and I think they purposely not included it. That's basic, lobbying matches. You see how lobbying changed things in Dark Legends? Nothing fancy, they just presented it differently and people started enjoying FFA. That simple mechanic catapulted DL above PL to many STS players... In fact as far as PvP, DL already surpassed PL in terms of culture...why is that? PL could have started like that too...that's what I'm saying...precedents (almost all good MMOs out there have lobbying matches, if they took notice of that..)...sadly, PvP is the only good thing in DL (LOL!) that I like...it fails in the other parts IMO, if you combine DL's PvP to PL's charisma, you have a blockbuster...just saying

By the way, PL isn't evolving backwards, it's just starting from scratch and ignoring precedents. It could have started on a much advanced state if players are more familiar with precedents of PvP, and developers more aggressive in promoting competitive gameplay. I'm just saying PL's taking the slower route but eventually it will get there to where PC MMO is today (provided it lives that long), they will catch up. I'm just saying, why go through all this evolution hiccups if you could start at an advanced stage. Well...only time can tell. But good thread I like how you presented both sides.

[JeffSorrows]

Seems quite biased and not ery balanced in any section. Though it is somewhat informative, it is nice to read, if you have the time. Or the attention span. Maybe just clean it up here and there, and would be better by having all your posts into one organized bit on the OP. Seems a bit over the top to have like 5 posts. But works out I suppose. Anyways just add some more concise information, and may become extremely useful, when the bias is lowered to a minumum. Maybe find three people who are either nuetral, pro and against rushing to get a good mix and feel of it. I don't pvp much and so doesn't bug me either way, as long as everyone is having fun. Thanks for the post(s)