Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

[D-Zaak]

Admiteddly, I am a rogue, so take my opinion however you like.

All the mages on here complaining that Rogues are overpowered need to chillax. There's enough rogues on here who can't kill a Warrior over an entire map.
Rogues aren't overpowered, mages are just underpowered. A mage's point of view may see rogues 1 or 2 shotting them, but keep in mind most rogues that kill you usually die a few seconds later because they have no more MP left. Rogue is a high risk high reward class, and that does not make them overpowered if they can die just as easily as they can kill.

i do however agree that mages are weak and need to be stronger. Here's my breakdown of each class and what needs to be done.


Rogues - are just right and don't need to be change. Yes they are damage dealers, but they need this upside since they have low hp and mp. What else do we have if we can't deal high damage? We'd be a useless class.

Mages - need to be made stronger through their skills. HP does not need to be increased, instead they're heal needs to cost less mana or give mages faster mana regen than other classes. Their AoE attacks need to be very strong, however make them cost more or give them long cool down times to balance out very strong attacks.

Warriors - need to seriously be nerfed. Minimise their support skills. A tank class really shouldn't have the ability to heal. What do they need it for? This makes mage redundant, which is unfair. Warrior should have the slowest mana regen of all classes since they have higher MP than rogues. One more thing, something needs to be done to minimise their sky hammer skill. Tanks aren't meant to move that fast. I can be out of arrow range and they can use sky hammer to jump me and kill me in 1 or 2 hits.

[yuriramos]

Admiteddly, I am a rogue, so take my opinion however you like.

All the mages on here complaining that Rogues are overpowered need to chillax. There's enough rogues on here who can't kill a Warrior over an entire map.
Rogues aren't overpowered, mages are just underpowered. A mage's point of view may see rogues 1 or 2 shotting them, but keep in mind most rogues that kill you usually die a few seconds later because they have no more MP left. Rogue is a high risk high reward class, and that does not make them overpowered if they can die just as easily as they can kill.

i do however agree that mages are weak and need to be stronger. Here's my breakdown of each class and what needs to be done.


Rogues - are just right and don't need to be change. Yes they are damage dealers, but they need this upside since they have low hp and mp. What else do we have if we can't deal high damage? We'd be a useless class.

Mages - need to be made stronger through their skills. HP does not need to be increased, instead they're heal needs to cost less mana or give mages faster mana regen than other classes. Their AoE attacks need to be very strong, however make them cost more or give them long cool down times to balance out very strong attacks.

Warriors - need to seriously be nerfed. Minimise their support skills. A tank class really shouldn't have the ability to heal. What do they need it for? This makes mage redundant, which is unfair. Warrior should have the slowest mana regen of all classes since they have higher MP than rogues. One more thing, something needs to be done to minimise their sky hammer skill. Tanks aren't meant to move that fast. I can be out of arrow range and they can use sky hammer to jump me and kill me in 1 or 2 hits.

You have some good points here, especially the warrior part but there shouldnt be a skill that can instantly kill a full hp class. Aimed shot should be nerfed period.
I dont mind rogues owning mages close range because thats how it should be. Now what mages can do is avoid being at close range but with the rogues aimed shot and warriors skyhammer, theres just no hope for the frogs. Even a running mage with gale boost can be chased down by a warrior or hit by an arrow god knows where its coming from.

[Vystirch]

@D-Zaak well said I agree. Also stuns on all attacks that stun are a bit long....

[Arsies]

"You guys are just bad mages, it must be your lack of strategy and not a class imbalance that's responsible for all of you complaining"

So True!

+1

If there's an imbalance in pvp it's just a small one

First of all you peeps should learn how to play your class and following some simple rules in pvp, like never walking alone.

And respec to get rid of your PvE build before going to complain

[D-Zaak]

@yuriramos - fair enough regarding aimed shot. It make life a little to easy for a rogue like me. The beauty of Aimed Shot in PvE is the ability to stack crits over several shots. I find it quite fun building crit up (it's like painting a picture where your paint is damage, and your brush strokes are DPS). In PvP, strong aimed shot stops rogues from artfully building up their crit. We have to be so careful though with low HP.

[D-Zaak]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

[Vystirch]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

Nope absolutely not in favor......
Rogues are fine as they are other classes need help.

[nicoB]

Ok this is jist a hlepful tip not meant to start an argument bur just giving some information on wat hinders my rogues killing ability the most. definitely use the shield. and the shiled definitely seems to last longer than 2 seconds. When i encounter a mage with the shield up, i hae one of 2 options. try to attack him anyway and die or run away if i swe him before he sees me and attack wen it wears off. wen a mage uses fireball stun and throws up the shield while I'm stuned i might as well give up on attacking. I think its very helpful for mages. the only thing more annoying than a group of warriors shield buffing each is a mage with the shield up. Past that tough shell is a soft squishy center lol and becase this i rush them anyway, just somethimes. But 90% of the time it doesnt work

[Tribalware]

So True!

+1

If there's an imbalance in pvp it's just a small one

First of all you peeps should learn how to play your class and following some simple rules in pvp, like never walking alone.

And respec to get rid of your PvE build before going to complain

A 'SMALL' imbalance he says, HAH. It's either sheer ignorance or incredible gaul you've got saying something like that.

Apparently wherever you're from they don't have sarcasm, that line you quoted me on was a satirical jab at every laughably unfair argument you rogues come out with to try and tell us that we (implying ALL of the mages in the game) are just not thinking enough about our class builds or strategy. You my friend are an idiot and I'll once again refer you to page 7 of this thread for my thorough breakdown of just why you're an idiot.

We've bought the best gear, we've re-specced and re-adjusted. We've learned never to solo (even though it's impossible not to solo a lot of the time) and we've done all of the other obvious common sense stuff you seem to think we are missing. We are STILL at a drastic disadvantage. If you don't want your class nerfed fine go ahead and think up some lame argument for that, but don't have the balls to sit there and tell me that my class is doing just fine because believe me we are not.

Some great points made about the warrior build recently as well. 1) Why does hammer smash deal stun? It shouldn't, especially if a frost bolt from a mage doesn't even cause a slow. 2) Why do tanks have the best healing skill in the game? They shouldnt, especially considering that they are unstoppable behemoths as it is.

Once again, more idiots telling the entire mage population that it's their poor grasp of 'strategy' that's causing them to suck *** and then whine about it. I'll say it again and simply (because it is SIMPLE) - AL is not a hard or complicated game, building a good character is easy and the PvP map is clearly a gutted out test map (hence it being called 'TEST') because strategy isn't what the developers are looking at. They are looking at what happens with the classes when you throw them at each other in a simple arena, and what happens is that us sorcs get trampled. My point being we ARE using what you people keep referring to as 'good strategy', we DO have good builds because you'd have to be a simpleton to mess it up and our gear is the most expensive going.

I'm now 40 plat down on respecs over my 500 odd pvp kills, does that qualify me to 'complain'?

[nicoB]

I just came up with a cool idea that would make the mages happy while keeping rogues feeling useful if they have lower damage.

First of all, Rogues such as myself are getting offended about being targeted to be nerfed because we feel that killing quickly is the only thing we really have. Yes we annoy the hell out of mages, but take away our DPS and we are nothing. Why not give us something else to be good at in the realm of CTF?

Here's my proposal:

Nerf aimed shot to half it's current damage but give rogues better opportunity to stack the crit up over time if they wish.
Considerably improve rogues dodging ability so they can survive with their new nerfed attacks.
Considerably improve movement speed.

What do these 3 changes do?
Allows a rogue to still deal damage by stacking up crits, but we cannot kill as quickly, meaning mages can survive.
Makes rogues a great flag carrier class due to high dodge and movement speed (think of a scout class in many FPS games like the old team fortress).

This also gives us 2 distinct flag carrier styles. Fast dodging (rogue) or slow surviving (warrior). Mages will never be great for flag carrying. They are perfect to support the carrier and keep them alive.

lol pve boss fights would go a lot slower. if you already do low dmg a crit stack wont give you more damage . you'll still be doing low critical damage

[nicoB]

I think mages should get high dodge. becausw i imagine that it would be hard to hit a little blue elf? mini manfrog? baby goblin? does anybody even know wat a mage is? but watever a mage is i'd think it would be hard to hit something rrunning around so small with an arrow. so dodge. ya sounds good

[Glotch]

I have has alot of expirenc pvping now with almost 1.5k kills on my warrior, warrior is fine the way they are i met some mages close to killing me and i have all the best gear but lvl 20 will set still not bad, what i have found after a few good fixed 1v1s is:
Rogue is op is sence that they are able to stun you over and over as well as kite you and have a crazy crit buff making it neat imposibble to get at least 2 hits on a rogue befor dieing to top it they have amazing dodge chance.

Mages on the other hand die very easly with shield it can be a good fight but i will 100% win any way, with out shield i can pop a mid gear mage in 2/3 hits and well geard 5/6. There damage is a little low as i find mages need to lose some int for str to last more then a split second.

Wars are op in packs alone can be poped quite easy from a rogue.

All in all mages need dps pumped up or There dodge or hp pool. Rogues do need a damage reduction nerf.

The leader board is nonsence how is a low dps war or even mage keep up with rogues dps? A rogue can get a good 15/20 kills a round wile mage and war get around 5/10 kills.

My idea to fix all this? Bring out reall pvp gear not the fail watch man stuff that came out not to long ago. This pvp gear should have a damage reduction bonus. This will insure longer games and fights and give mages a fighting chance on the battlefield.


Atm its well unbalanced

Thanks Glotch

[quaziest]

I want fast casting for my sorcy and faster downtime for my skills, that will teach those rogues to mess us!!!! LOL ... snare those rogues!!!!

[yuriramos]

Mages with dodge. Lol. That will leave mages with insect health. People try to dictate whT mages need to do but never tried to be a mage at all. Its understandable that rogues and warriors will deny their advantage, again to avoid being nerfed. Believe me, i tried every build there is. 275.9 dps or max dmage, 1.9k hp. Pls read triblwares post before, its seems that we aee going back to the same argument all over again. I trust the devs will notice the imbalance and will work with it as we are only in the beta phase. Just by looking at the leaderboards, ull see its infestd my rogues.

[Rasittt]

rogues are a bit out of hand..2 rogues will 1 hit warriors and kill us..mages will keep stunning and slowing us down..only advantage we got on our side is the high defence, which doesn't even help anyway..

[Pulenski]

A 'SMALL' imbalance he says, HAH. It's either sheer ignorance or incredible gaul you've got saying something like that.

Apparently wherever you're from they don't have sarcasm, that line you quoted me on was a satirical jab at every laughably unfair argument you rogues come out with to try and tell us that we (implying ALL of the mages in the game) are just not thinking enough about our class builds or strategy. You my friend are an idiot and I'll once again refer you to page 7 of this thread for my thorough breakdown of just why you're an idiot.

We've bought the best gear, we've re-specced and re-adjusted. We've learned never to solo (even though it's impossible not to solo a lot of the time) and we've done all of the other obvious common sense stuff you seem to think we are missing. We are STILL at a drastic disadvantage. If you don't want your class nerfed fine go ahead and think up some lame argument for that, but don't have the balls to sit there and tell me that my class is doing just fine because believe me we are not.

Some great points made about the warrior build recently as well. 1) Why does hammer smash deal stun? It shouldn't, especially if a frost bolt from a mage doesn't even cause a slow. 2) Why do tanks have the best healing skill in the game? They shouldnt, especially considering that they are unstoppable behemoths as it is.

Once again, more idiots telling the entire mage population that it's their poor grasp of 'strategy' that's causing them to suck *** and then whine about it. I'll say it again and simply (because it is SIMPLE) - AL is not a hard or complicated game, building a good character is easy and the PvP map is clearly a gutted out test map (hence it being called 'TEST') because strategy isn't what the developers are looking at. They are looking at what happens with the classes when you throw them at each other in a simple arena, and what happens is that us sorcs get trampled. My point being we ARE using what you people keep referring to as 'good strategy', we DO have good builds because you'd have to be a simpleton to mess it up and our gear is the most expensive going.

I'm now 40 plat down on respecs over my 500 odd pvp kills, does that qualify me to 'complain'?

+1 to this

[nicoB]

Insect health?, i just said give them a lot of dodge they dont have to sacrifice any health. rogues have it, why not mages?

[CosmoxKramer]

I big help for the Sorcerer would be to change the 2s immune shield be on regular cast not a charged cast. a 2s immune shield on a Sorc should be used as an o crap shield. if i charged the spell to start a fight too, i just get stunned for the first 2s and then killed before i can charge a fireball or something else, so unless i can use it as an instant cast, it is nearly useless.

Otherwise make it be a 4s immune to all stun/slow type of a effects + 15% damage reduction (on top of whatever bonuses you reduction you may have spent a point on)

at the same time a warrior already has enough HP/armor etc and for them to easily throw on a 2s immune shield for a whole group is crazy. change it to be 50% damage reduct for the group for 2s. the single Upgrade is better than all 4 Sorcerer shield upgrades combined because it is a group heal/shield vs. a sorc alone shield.

[Asahetek]

I fought alot of good warriors and sorc and they can kills us they both have stun attacks before we get enough mana back to attack. As for warriors not being able to kill enough one game a warrior had 40 kills in a game, they have very high health, armour and can heal themselves good sorc who use their sheild spell and fire ball, and stun rogues they can kill us.

[nicoB]

rogues are a bit out of hand..2 rogues will 1 hit warriors and kill us..mages will keep stunning and slowing us down..only advantage we got on our side is the high defence, which doesn't even help anyway..

Are you serious lol? And how sis you get one shoted by 2 rogues? And of course your supposed to lose if you get double teamed dude. if you didnt you'd be way OP