classbalace - WHO are the ppl to judge?

[kiwotsukete]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

[Robhawk]

These threads are kinda boring now we have a similar one in the pvp discussion section already

No! This thread here should have been about the fact that 1% of players want to balance the game for the 100% playerbase! It all got offtopic after some posts, like it allways is...

You clearly dont know how to pvp then.

Thats how it has to be!

[Litheus]

No! This thread here should have been about the fact that 1% of players want to balance the game for the 100% playerbase! It all got offtopic after some posts, like it allways is...

I explained why it is that way.
And there's a difference between "want" n "have"

[Zeus]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

They actually lose more because that 10% damage also renders our pet damage percent bonus null. So, when I enter PvP, I end up losing over 200 damage & then I have to fight sorcerers with these heal buffs, various shield buffs, whilst they have over 1000 damage? That big of a gap puts aim and lightning on similar levels when factoring when debuffs.

[CheifR]

If both the people vsing are maxed than they're balanced with eachother right? So if he's using them as an example it'd still be valid since they aren't basing it off gear; they'd be saying equal gear= equal chance of winning which applies at every level and every set of gear. I've hear alot from friends (and I'm beginning to agree) is the main people whining about their favorite class needing a buff or others needing a nerf may just have had bad experiences themselves. Sorry I'm not very good at spelling what I mean out but hey I tried

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[Zeus]

or people can just buy clean sets for a vs .-. if no one has the same gems, and they have the same pet. it is in a sense fair.

Agreed. However, are people willing to do that?

[CheifR]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

+1000 with the extra effort we have to put in because of this AND with our gear being even more expensive what reason do they have to complain?

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[Zeus]

+1000 with the extra effort we have to put in because of this AND with our gear being even more expensive what reason do they have to complain?

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On top of this, players are claiming that sorcerers are balanced? How is it balanced if you do not need a certain class in a clash? That's by far the definition of imbalance and it's the exact thing that sorcerers and warriors write novels about on forums when they aren't accepted to rogue parties in PvE. They are both issues that need to be handled.

[Oezheasate]

Who cares about mages and rogues? Fix the Warriors first lol

[CheifR]

Any class has to pick which stats they want to be higher than others. Simple fact is rouge is op and needs to be nerfed. 2k armour 40%crit 850dmg 5k health 1k dps. Doesn't sound like picking and choosing

As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

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[Litheus]

On top of this, players are claiming that sorcerers are balanced? How is it balanced if you do not need a certain class in a clash? That's by far the definition of imbalance and it's the exact thing that sorcerers and warriors write novels about on forums when they aren't accepted to rogue parties in PvE. They are both issues that need to be handled.

Pve is actually unbalanced
Pvp is unbalanced because of gems

[Oursizes]

hmmm alot of people hating on rogues... and the rogue stats... yet a rogue gets 10% damage nerf in pvp so you cant base its damage on outside dmg. if a rogue is 800 dex dmg, they lose 80 damage, so they are actually 720 dex dmg in pvp... what more do you want?? they have to manually pick up their med packs while tanks can pull them away from the packs... a mage can stun them so they cant get their packs... razor doesnt reduce damage like a mages shield does or a tanks jug AND heal does.... in comparison, a rogues ability to crit is a trade off for having to work harder to heal and having no damage reduction that I can think of...

Lets not forget we dont get the bonus damage% of happiness from pet either.

[Litheus]

As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

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Zeus usually clashes with mages with 50% crit n 1k dmg who can one combo rogues just like that.
And this is the thing about which Rob made his thread for.
It is normal for rogues who specializes in one target to get discarded in a clash

[Tatman]

They actually lose more because that 10% damage also renders our pet damage percent bonus null. So, when I enter PvP, I end up losing over 200 damage & then I have to fight sorcerers with these heal buffs, various shield buffs, whilst they have over 1000 damage? That big of a gap puts aim and lightning on similar levels when factoring when debuffs.

Actually, in my experience, as limited as it is, lightning hits harder than aimed at the moment.

[Kingofninjas]

Pve is actually unbalanced
Pvp is unbalanced because of gems

PvP is unbalanced because mages have virtually a permanent 40% damage reduction on them, coupled with 2 second invulnerability both from themselves and from each of the tanks on their team. Now they have a very powerful heal in addition to the tanks heal. I have 5k hp and 2.1k armor as a rogue and yet I find myself 1 comboed (fire light ice) by mages or dropped close enough for one of the million nekros on the field to finish me with an AA. I have to waste a skill slot (and 3 skill points) if I want stun immunity in between nekro shield in the form of razor, which has absolutely no other use apart from the aforementioned. Half the time my own packs are useless to me because I can't survive long enough to reach them after they are casted.

Tanks find their juggernaut being broken not only by rogues, but also by mages who don't have dot. IMO, tanks should be given a blanket *1.3 armor boost in PvP or being back the elon bulwark that put a formidable curse upon enemies. This is the imbalance in PvP.

[CheifR]

Zeus usually clashes with mages with 50% crit n 1k dmg who can one combo rogues just like that.
And this is the thing about which Rob made his thread for.
It is normal for rogues who specializes in one target to get discarded in a clash

If you're basing your opinion off of someone with as equal gear as yours I just don't see how that can be counted as any less accurate no matter how wealthy you are or how good your stats may be. It'd be the same as if you wereto do tests with similar gear as eachother that may just not be as strong/expensive. My guess is people are basing their opinions too much on their personal experiences with people STRONGER than them/ more skilled

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[Mylast]

As zeus said we already are being said to not be needed in clashes and your idea is to nerf us directly after your buff?

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Whats there to nerf? Are people forgettin about damage debuff of rogue?

All classes got buffs except rogues. And we dont complain. You re greedy. Mages were too squishy, and now with buffs, a skilled person can do amazing job. Maybe not in vs, but in wars will.

Maybe you playin it wrong, Rob.

[Litheus]

PvP is unbalanced because mages have virtually a permanent 40% damage reduction on them, coupled with 2 second invulnerability both from themselves and from each of the tanks on their team. Now they have a very powerful heal in addition to the tanks heal. I have 5k hp and 2.1k armor as a rogue and yet I find myself 1 comboed (fire light ice) by mages or dropped close enough for one of the million nekros on the field to finish me with an AA. I have to waste a skill slot (and 3 skill points) if I want stun immunity in between nekro shield in the form of razor, which has absolutely no other use apart from the aforementioned. Half the time my own packs are useless to me because I can't survive long enough to reach them after they are casted.

Tanks find their juggernaut being broken not only by rogues, but also by mages who don't have dot. IMO, tanks should be given a blanket *1.3 armor boost in PvP or being back the elon bulwark that put a formidable curse upon enemies. This is the imbalance in PvP.

Dude of course u will feel pvp to be unbalanced if u fight against a team with warriors, necros, and mages with a full rogue team
If u are equally geared even u will have 40% dmg reduction almost all the time, even u will get 2 sec invulnerability from tanks heal, even u will get healed by mages heal in ur team.

[Zeus]

Dude of course u will feel pvp to be unbalanced if u fight against a team with warriors, necros, and mages with a full rogue team
If u are equally geared even u will have 40% dmg reduction almost all the time, even u will get 2 sec invulnerability from tanks heal, even u will get healed by mages heal in ur team.

He's fighting with a balanced team comprised of 2 tanks and 2 mages, 1 rogue or 2 rogues and 1 Mage. What you say above is an unbalanced team and stacking of classes (2 tanks and 3 mages). This goes to show that sorcerers overtake class roles that they should not be overtaking in endgame. How messed up is that? -.-

[Litheus]

If you're basing your opinion off of someone with as equal gear as yours I just don't see how that can be counted as any less accurate no matter how wealthy you are or how good your stats may be. It'd be the same as if you wereto do tests with similar gear as eachother that may just not be as strong/expensive. My guess is people are basing their opinions too much on their personal experiences with people STRONGER than them/ more skilled

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It's not about gear or skill. It's about gem. Sts released a gem "eye of syrillex" in last year's winter event. It allowed a very selected few mages to multiclass I.e. act as rogues and mages. Most of the time Zeus is with those selected few mages. The general population of the mage are not op but the general population of the rogues are. Zeus is on a different level than the rest of us.