reasons

[Chickdigcookies]

so, its become something like a trend now. people are leaving. people who defended the devs when things got rough. people who looked forward to ao3. people who knew how to play. its sad, but somehow predictable and very understandable.

what are the reasons why people are quitting/taking a break(look i spelled it right)?

i have a couple:

-bored
-no one plays anymore
-too hardcore
-not hardcore enough
-too expensive/loot
-too many douche bags
-time reasons
-the only way to enjoy the game is to be really super rich and be a douche bag, and one is not
-or honestly, the hype was only that, a hype. it didnt deliver what they promised.


quote they posted up on youtube, but has recently been taken down since they deleted the "preview" video of ao3. i dont know why i posted, but eh.


We feel it is worth more than 20 plat. This campaign is so much more advanced then previous ones, with a ton of epic loot, multiple-stage boss fights like never before, additional PvP areas, more audio, and a much higher production value. We played through the entire thing yesterday and it is more fun than anything else in the game! We actually think all our campaigns are underpriced right now (they were originally priced before we had townes and quests)

[Tavore]

Yea it does get boring after a while. You have a lot of fun when it first comes out but then you get to 50 and all you can do is farm. Then after your farming for hours and don't get anything good you just feel like it's a task and not having fun. There needs to be something more for this game. It definitely needs way better quests too. Go get 1000 of this is another hassle. It's fun cause it's new but it doesn't last very long.

[Royce]

Honestly my interest waxes and wanes with quality of PvE pickup games. With absolutely nobody playing AO3 for real (99% of games are rushing or grinding shadows), it's tough to keep interested right now for me. I'm not leaving, nor have I really considered it yet, but the game has changed. I thought that the deleterious effects of rush farming on the game were obvious enough in AO2 that the devs would have prevented it, or at least discouraged it somehow, in AO3, but no such luck, at least not yet...
AO3 has a ton going for it, and pricewise, this game is an unbeatable value. Unfortunately, nobody actually seems to want to take advantage of that content. I don't blame the players for finding ways to cut corners and acquire things quickly, but I do blame the devs for allowing to to persist unchecked.

[FluffNStuff]

Fatigue. People who have been playing a long time have been 'stuck at the top' a number of times before. Unfortunately as early adopters, we do get the excitement of playing this game before others, but we also have to realize we are playing an UNFINISHED product. My biggest issue with AO3 is one that future PL generations will not have to deal with. We fight hard to get to 50 so we can get the new equipment, but once there, what do we do with it? The answer will eventually be use it in the next campaign to get to 55. Or even use it complete the quests in AO3, or fight in the AO3 hard core (OUCH) level. But all level 50 characters right now are officially to high for the game, and we get to 50 to get the equipment ... to get more equipment. The same as when we were level 45's, and level 40's, and level 35's and level 30's etc. So I really think some of the oldies are getting tired of 'being ahead of the game'.

[Justg]

Good conversations. We're listening...

[RedRyder]

Im an oldie, and ive never been ahead of the game lol. Ive yet to reach 50, but these kids with all the time in the world dominate this game. Its not casual anymore. Being a full time student racking up credits and working to pay rent and whatever while still trying to maintain a good social life i really dont have all this time.

Im for damn sure im not the only one.
The items are too expensive to stay on point to actually be of help in games,
So as i said, all these kids have all this time to farm and getting all this gold, its not fair.

I love ao3, i personally would have payed 50 plat even (if quality goes up with every camp. I highly suggest that price) its just these youngens sucking the life outta this game

[Vyvin]

As usual we get the people who are the setting the prices who do this. Screw up the economy and make us fall on our faces. And then people who need the item spend all day getting nowhere and the prices increase because of demand.
/Vyvin

[BeardedBear]

One thing I always noticed; it's VERY easy to come up with things we don't like, not a solution for them. I think we should suggest things that would benifit the game, instead of saying what we already know. Regarding the exp farming of shadows nonstop, well make the respawn on shadows longer, so people can't linger around, heck, even remove ALL skeletons from AO3 to prevent easy leveling, or mix them up with aliens and such.

The last 2 people I have seen who "quit", quickly changed there mind when showered with money and items from friends wanting them to stay. I don't think the devs are in any real trouble of a wave of people quitting, seems to be just a few people in the forums who A) just want to say goodbye to friends and are busy with other RL things B) People who leave or threaten the devs with leaving because they don't like how something is. You don't quit a game because you don't have gold or items. I'm glad to see those people leave.

EDIT: also, I'm sure the devs get a good laugh when people threaten them with leaving. It's amazing how important people think they are, in a game full of thousands.

[NinjaStar]

I do agree that farm rushing is a huge problem in this game but players NEED to do it in order to be better geared. Prices are at an all time high and this is due to the high demand and low supply. I DO want farm rushing to be stopped but I DONT want prices to increase further. Imagine if farm rushing was solved and we had to clear a map in order to get gear. The supply would decrease further than what it is now and demand obviously unmoved.

If Devs would increase legendary drop rate for clearing a map then the problem would be solved and perhaps the economy would stable. That and an Auction House

Both sides would be happy in my opinion. Players who complain about the economy and players who want to play the game how it should be played and get rewarded properly with good drops for doing so.

[Tavore]

That would really help with farm rushing. Although once you get all the gear what do you do? Just farm some more for money. I'm trying to farm all my gear myself instead of buying it so I can have something to do..

Careful with making you have to clear for killing the boss. That could make the prices sky rocket even higher if they are too hard to obtain. I'm sure people will try to make prices higher. Putting the right drop rate of course would help this.

[Vyvin]

As usual we get the people who are the setting the prices who do this. Screw up the economy and make us fall on our faces. And then people who need the item spend all day getting nowhere and the prices increase because of demand.
/Vyvin

[FluffNStuff]

As for the insanely high prices, the solution to that would be to put decent stats on the tier two pinks. In AO2, the rare items that sold for a lot of money were never 'necessary'. People WANTED a 800K lance, but you could get by fine with a 25K Isis Spear. People WANTED the million gold Galzyx staff, but the desert shadow staff was quite useful and quite affordable. The problem now is that the only ~decent~ pink equipment is the really rare items, and the other pinks are just, well, junk.
AO3 has evolved that having the super rare, super expensive pinks has become a necessity and not a luxury. Two possible solutions to this that I see. The first is to up the stats on Fate, Fortune and Destiny items so they are actually AO3 quality items. The other option, is to release some crazy luxury items that are much cooler looking and have much better stats then the Void, Cosmo or Rift items. This will in effect drive down the prices on these necessary pinks as power sellers and power buyers turn their attention to the new items. Either solution should help, and of course a combination would be the best.

[Nebbor]

I agree, there needs to be more endgame content. I know this game isn't WoW/Runescape/etc..., but some endgame utilizations/concepts could work here: better PvP, more PvP type arenas, PvP points to get elite equip/gold, better questing, crafting system, auction house, Equip modifiers/tiers, etc.... I know this is a quick list, but it's a starting point. Thanks for listening.

[cry]

All I wish is that the level cap would be much higher (70) it would be alot more fun, more items like new markets, 50-55-60-65-70. It would be way more fun IMO.

[pooop]

til u hit 70 and got bored again.
frankly this game will get boring at some point for everyone. what makes it a great game is that people do not want to get bored with it.

[Krimm]

So the problem with hitting the level cap comes down to replay value. In my eyes there are two things to do once the cap is hit.
1) Farm
2) PvP
So, do the devs need to make some mini games or something to keep interest? They can make this game MORE like WoW if you can have a trade skill, or fishing or something else (15 man raid dungeons) to grind the time away.

I think the issue with AO3 is getting a good group or party. I believe making a true guild system could fix many issues. With a good guild system, you could (more) easily get a better group together to play, chat, trade, etc. Also a guild system could build a better sense of community in PL, instead of "you're too low/you suck *boot*" that has been far too common.

The devs have made a REALLY, REALLY good MOBILE mmorpg. This is really the first game of its kind and just needs to be tweaked to fix a few problem areas.

[cry]

Well no.... 70 would be really hard, then some dungeons would be hard enough for just 70s.

[regie831]

raise the level cap, like other mmo's I've played there's always something to do like level up other stats. it was pretty exciting when a03 first came out, but after a couple days of farming and lvling up to 50 the excitement disappears. I am now in the brink of quitting PL but not yet, I'm still sure the devs will come up with something i can look forward to.

[Kalielle]

Fluff has hit the nail on the head here. The drops in AO2 were very cleverly set up, with plasma giving people all the necessary items at a decent drop rate, and then the other maps giving cool loot for those who had tons of time to kill farming. I remember playing through plasma many times when I was just getting to 45; It was just a great way for new players to get all the equipment they needed, and get lots of practice playing while there were at it - and the good drop rate encouraged people to keep playing through that long grind to the bosses. When I finally got bored of that and turned to rush farming the other maps, I never got upset that it took a while until I got some really rare stuff, because I knew I didn't really need it to play well.

With AO3 good armor is much more necessary and yet the only way to obtain it in a reasonable amount of time is via potted rush farming. Meanwhile the common pinks drop even more rarely than pinks in plasma pyramid it seems, and they're sometimes so bad they almost insult the player's intelligence. We need decent items that drop frequently enough that casual non-farming players can get them, and then uber-rare items that have only slightly better stats but maybe a really cool look, to give those who have time to farm an incentive to keep playing the game. We've already seen that players are willing to spend hours farming just to get a bow that has plus one armor but is red. :D Those are the kinds of differences that we need to have between common and uber-rare pinks - especially when it comes to armor, shield and helm, which are necessary for good play.

Also, I know many will disagree with this, but I think maps need to be kept rushable without pots - or else made completely impossible to rush even with pots, but I don't see how the latter could be done without making them insanely difficult, in which case again we'd have people potting to clear (and there would be pressure from teammates for everyone to pot). I don't know if the devs goal was to nerf rushing with the current difficulty level... If so, it hasn't happened.

What happened instead is we have people farming with pots, and people who can't afford pots and therefore can't afford to play with friends with whom they've played for ages, or people who get booted out of games or called lechers because they can't afford to pot when everyone else does. Even in non-rush games people often pot because of the one hit kill problem, and the lack of good armor. So people are desperate for pot money and it's changing the game and the atmosphere among higher levels. Everyone is a lot less likely to be patient and generous. I remember how in AO2 I farmed for fun and gave away 3 of the 5 shock lances I ever looted... I'd be very unlikely to do that now, just because one simply needs pot money to keep playing.

[Vyvin]

Im for damn sure im not the only one.
The items are too expensive to stay on point to actually be of help in games,
So as i said, all these kids have all this time to farm and getting all this gold, its not fair.

Xom, Lone, Melknor (my friend though), the list goes on!
/Vyvin

[Snakespeare]

First you have to know the cause. We can whine for days, but without knowing the cause of the problem, all we can share are our feelings.

I believe the cause is inherent in the current game structure. Stats have relatively little impact on your character's performance.

Skills do a little, particularly the buffs and debuffs, but skills that cause damage don't really do much compared to items.

Only Items give the bonuses necessary to withstand the attacks of one-hit bosses. With great items comes great power. We all instinctively desire security. Our brains are hardwired to gravitate to wealth and power because it provides the most assuring illusion of security.

Think about the items that are so highly coveted. They give H/s and M/s and deliver damage that can only be attained through the Stats of a person at level 200!!! (Blame Royce for pointing this out, he's the genius.) Who wouldn't want to be level 50 but function at level 250? The Galactic Warlord is an example. It's just an alien in a powersuit. Once you break his shield and debuff his powersuit, he's just another alien. He is living under the illusion that having the best gear gets him security, but it doesn't.

DESPITE THAT, everyone wants the Galactic Overlord's items; the ones that makes their characters function at 4 to 5 times their actual level!!! These items are rare. The laws of supply and demand make them very valuable. The fact that they are so valuable makes people want to farm for them.

You can see it happening if you look around town. There are a few people in powersuits with Mega Blasters and such. Everyone else it still in their AO2 gear. Now everyone wants a powersuit.

Therefore, they have to farm. Farming takes a lot of time, so now they have to rush.

To summarize: You have to perform at 5 times your level, so you have to get the gear. The gear is rare, so you are forced to farm. You can't farm until you are high enough level, so you have to grind.

Finally, once you are effectively level 250, there is nothing to do but farm some more and acquire wealth.

===

How to fix it, in my opinion.
1. Do not have items that make people perform at 4 to 5 times their level.
2. Makes stats and skills (buffs) give the bonuses that people are currently seeking from items.
3. Make items of the same level relatively equal (instead of a dozen useless pinks to each useful pink, make them all useful.)

This removes the NEED for farming and solves the problem by removing the cause.

This also changes the motive of the player from acquisitiveness to the pursuit of excellence on the part of their character, a far loftier and far more rewarding motive.


[added edit]
You left out one other reason.

- getting called a leech by a rush farmer. (oh, that was too many d-bags, right)

[kurl]

i actually think that pocket legends would be much much better if it was like this:
if the chars actually werent fieinding for money and if people would actually charge the price as it would pay to liquidate the items
now what we need from the devs is to raise the price in all items liqudation system then to lower the prices in all pots and all items that i guess noobs buy from ai's in the game
well thx i hope you put this into account and hopefully lower the price of all the pots in game

[Azrael]

I'm one of those Original players that is finally taking a break. I'm not quitting mind you.

Yea its easy to complain and we all do, but someone said here that we need suggestion, and i completely agree. Sometimes i feel like i'm just howling at the moon, but i've always tried to push suggestions. Sometimes problems occur when doing this because players disagree or have a different vision for the game, but the one thing everything should agree on is content. The issue here is that content takes time. One of the biggest issues with ao3 is that the time it took to make it doesn't provide enough content hours for players.

I'll stick to my basic suggestions though:
-Continuing to add new features like the auction house and guilds (both are on the way)
-COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE CLASS/STAT/SKILL system, and a revamp of item stats to match. (not happening anytime soon sadly)
-Improved PVP with purpose
-Nerfing the rush. Seriously, this is a basic thing most mmorpgs can ensure doesn't happen unless there is a significant level difference. Just take a page from any number of games.

The class overhaul and pvp is a big one for creating extended content hours however. The beauty of PVP is that if its good, it never ends, it always pleases hardcores, and it provides months of fun.

Anyway, thats my two cents, and it has been for a long time. Sure there are lots of little issues but those are the big ones. PL is the BEST mmorpg on any mobile platform, and it has a huge amount of potential, but it needs to take two steps backwards before it can really move forward.

[Gavry]

Like the discussion. I'll throw in my suggestions to fix the issues.

XP Farming

While I don't see this as a massive problem the best option for this it to add a Trophy system to the game. The basic premise is that each player has a list of the last x% of their XP they have earned with a breakdown of different % for each enemy type. As a certain enemy type starts taking up more of the x% the xp gained from each new kill of that enemy decreases until they give no XP at all. This forces players to mix it up with XP options.


Lack of Community

Add more chat channels to the game. All players, all in map, all in a group. Groups made by simply clicking on a player and selecting the group option, or by typing /group <playername>. This give people the chance to sit around and chat on-line, which I am sure a lot would like to do. Currently it is almost impossible as there is so much sale spam. Furthermore you can actually be in a group and play a map at the same time.


Bored

Need to add more elite maps and some kind of Elite Raid system. There really needs to be some map set that you have to play through in order, can never create a game in a map in the set other than the first. As maps go on through the set make the loot better and the drop rate higher.


Lack of Balance

Add a more complex skill and attribute system (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?9105-Skill-amp-Attribute-Overhaul). This is way overdue and really needed for future expansion of the game.


Rush Farming

Rush Farmed - Boss Drop Chance:
Super Rare: 0.5%
Rare: 5%
Any Pink: 8%

Fully Cleared Map - Boss Drop Chance:
Super Rare: 5%
Rare: 25%
Any Pink: 75%

See further discussion here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?9971-Rush-Farming-Cure).


Economy and Greed

Actually make skills, play ability and attribute the prime factor in success rather than super good equipment. If nothing else AO3 has brought a system to the game, that means if you don't have the best of the best, no matter how good a player you are you will be seriously disadvantaged. This is totally wrong. As long as you have reasonably good equipment you should be able to excel in all maps if you are a good enough player. See the point above under Lack of Balance.

[Azrael]

Actually make skills, play ability and attribute the prime factor in success rather than super good equipment. If nothing else AO3 has brought a system to the game, that means if you don't have the best of the best, no matter how good a player you are you will be seriously disadvantaged. This is totally wrong. As long as you have reasonably good equipment you should be able to excel in all maps if you are a good enough player. See the point above under Lack of Balance.

I like most of your ideas, but gear has to play a role in power. There is little other way to differentiate between players. That said you are right that it needs to be balance. Gear should make a difference. Actually right now gear barely makes any difference at all except in pvp. I mean honestly, elixers are all that matter in pve right now.

[Gavry]

I agree if you have two players with the same skills and same playing ability then equipment should be the deciding factor. The vast majority of difference should be skills/attributes and ability to play the game.

I agree elixirs play WAY to much of a role right now. They should be almost non-existent. The best place for elixirs to play a difference is for XP, equipment drops, and when you want to solo or play with a well underpowered group. A well balanced group playing a map appropriate to their level should NEVER need to user them.

[Fyrce]

Um, the spacesuit is not a cure-all. Many times the spacesuit guy is dead and I'm the last birdie standing... and my birdie does not have anything super rare. Well, that he can wear. So I have to disagree with gear, even the super great new rare ones, being a cure-all.

I think some people think EQ is it, just as some people think you can run areas just by hacking and slashing, even if you are a mage. Just like some groups found Ao2:Plasms Pyramid difficult, I think those types of players are having the same problems with Ao3, and Ao3 gives the good players a slight challenge. So I can imagine what the average player or the brute-force player thinks of Ao3...

I think that's why I see so many flat players in great looking EQ... but they are still flat. LOL.

[SpeedWeed]

1. with the exception for void gear and cosmos. there is a painful lack of ms in almost all the new gear. barely any hs. which i believe is due to the devs trying to remove gold from the game. tank elixir usage may not be mandatory but hp potion chugging is a necessity now.

but the potion and elixir usage drains too much gold for most casual players to afford

my suggestion is to reprice the gold/elixirs/hp and mana potions in the platinium store. so casual players can use platinium to buy potions/elixirs at a more reasonable price. ( STS also gets to earn from this too )

currently the pricing is just silly.

150 plat for 35k gold (spending so much money on plat for 35k gold which gets you almost nothing in the game? )/ 24 plat for dumpster punch ( dumpster punch costs 12k gold. )

2. leveling has become to excessive. we just end up mindlessly grinding the section of any instance that gives us the easiest/fastest xp.


even blizzard has made lvling alot easier in WOW. because grinding mindlessly is not what a typical casual gamer enjoys spending their time doing. especially since lvl 50 gear makes a noticeable difference in being able to successfully complete AO3 content. lvling should be made easier.

3. the current game is steered towards farming with 2 str bears 1 str bird 2 str enchantresses being the most effective team.
stack as much armor as u can. pin boss against a wall. right finger for skills. left finger permanently chugging hp potions.

my personal experience has given me the impression that most other pre lvl 50 builts (dex bear/bird/enchantress. int bear/bird/enchantress.) are not effective or useful at all even with tank pots.

heck my pally with full lvl 45 mynas. i used tank elixir and i still got one shotted by overlord.

the non str builts just die too often due to low armor. thus creating a bigger chance for a wipe.

It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

AO2 was alot more casual friendly. u can have any random builts but at least have one tanking bear. you should still be able to make it thru. PUGS were relatively easy to get and you can clear thru AO2 without difficulty.

AO3 in order to smoothly progress. a lot of people are taking to booting "unfavorable" class builts. because it's just crippling yourself and your chance to clear the instance smoothly. ( i admit to doing this )


Granted some of the players need to learn to play. having a newbie who breaks barrels unknowingly and killing the party. unloading spells onto overlord when his shield is up. not aiming for the alien sniper first even though it's totally kicking our butt.

kinda makes me feel like kicking a baby seal/smashing elmo in the face with a sledge hammer.

Armor stacking should not be the only viable option. damage reduction should be % based and level based.

It would also make 1h fast weapons with high dps become viable against bosses.

4. lvl 50 non void rift cosmos gear are pretty pathetic. isis/thoth pieces in AO2 had fairly reasonable stats. and allowed casuals to enjoy the game. the new lvl 50 pieces fate/destiny/fortune are pretty crappy.


fate destiny fortune should have a favorable set bonus. cosmos pieces should be slightly better but giving a better set bonus.

this should balance things out. and make the game playable for casuals and the hardcore ppl can still aim for a full cosmos set. ( for looks and the set bonus ). this would make the game enjoyable for all.

5. Quest giver achievements should be introduced for AO3. rewards being a nice piece of gear. gear should be slightly better than fate destiny fortune lvl 50 pinks but not better than cosmos, void, rift.

example: get a quest to kill certain number of certain boss for a specific gear with specific stats/ specific look/set bonus. ( maybe 10-50 kills of a specific boss)

nice gear for casuals. content accessible by anyone. sure the hardcore ppl can do a POKEMON and "gota catch em all". that's their choice but it won't affect the casual players.

more content accessible by all players. makes for happy players.

[Trollpackan]

When I first saw this thread I had a lot on my mind that I wanted to say, to explain how I'm experiencing this game...but it has all been said allready so I can just agree with most of the writers.
Though I also feel, when reading some posts in this thread, that farming/rushing is the biggest problem creating all these differences between casual and hardcore players. I don't think that I agree with that. Yes the reason for farming, to get more of the rarest pinks to sell and get filthy rich, is wrong but that's also the problem. There needs to be other things to do rather than getting the most money or the most rare pinks to show off in. The farming/rushing as a "concept" is no problem for me as long as there are other things to do as well.

I'm kinda new to this game, been playing for about 1½ month now. I like the casual part of this game. Playing through the maps, killing everyone, hoping to get a cool pink which I mostly don't... :)
I have a lvl50, lvl47 and a lvl30. My first lvl45, a mage, I got to 45 by playing, playing, playing. I used some xp pots from 44-45 I think, becuase I had some money. Then I took the tank up to 45 using more pots. When AO3 was released I started out by playing through all maps with the tank, using some xp pots. I ran through them again. And again. Then I got bored and put all my money into xp pots to reach 50 sooner. Why? I don't know. I guess that the stressful tempo everyone has gotted made me do it as well. Now I'm sitting here rushing/farming to get the best gear (which I don't get anyway). What has become of me??

Hmm...no that I read this I see that it's not completley coherent and sometimes makes no sense. But there's so much that wants to get out, and so many thoughts.

But to Summarize:
- I am a casual player, that has turned into a hardcore player trying to get the best gear and the most gold. I don't want to be that, I AM a casual player.
- As many people have said before, what we need is more things to do. The only thing we can do today is some PvP and farming for pinks/money.

Things like more
- elite quests
- guilds
- guild specific quests and elite quests, requireing certain guild setups to enter a instance, maybe a minimum number of members in the group
- Maybe internal and official guild leaderbords, trophys and so on to get the guild memebers to help each other at the same time as the compete agains each other in various ways
- Guild "hall" with maybe a guild bank (stash), infoboard where you can write things like "tonight at 9 we'll meet at glumdoll to smash some skulls"..well you get the picture.
- auction house (only to get the prices down)
- jobs where you can create things like bags, weapons, pots and so on
- More gear to wear like rings, amulets, boots, gloves
- The possiblity to tweak the gear by yourself or by a person who has a certain job (like above). This means that you have to turn to your guild to get help or someone else if you don't have that job in your guild.
- More ways/easier ways to communicate

Well most of these suggestions have been posted before but I think they are really good and even though it will take some time to get everything in the game I'm willing to wait as long as we can see things happen constantly.

See you all out there.