Mac Pro!

[Petrichor]

So, Apple unveiled the new Mac Pro. It is apparently coming out later this year. What are your thoughts on it? Would you consider getting one? :)

Article: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/index2.html

Video:
http://youtu.be/Hpu-eYVNGLo

[KingFu]

Cool thing: it can support up to 3 4k displays (impractical though).

Still, first thing I thought when I saw it was a child's potty training toilet.

[Zeus]

Cool thing: it can support up to 3 4k displays (impractical though).

Still, first thing I thought when I saw it was a child's potty training toilet.

I thought the same exact thing! Regardless, I want that potty training toilet and I might get one for my desktop computer.

[Schnitzel]

I like mac pro until I see the price $2000
I likes the new 2013 macbook air better :D

[Xbuddyjosh]

I have an air - if u shot it off and hold the screen to a light, u can see thru it D:

[Schnitzel]

I have an air - if u shot it off and hold the screen to a light, u can see thru it D:
Cool!
But I'd never shoot a mac
Edit" ignore that last sentence (before this edit)

[Zeus]

Cool!
But I'd never shoot a mac

I think he meant shut, Ruizhe, lol.

[KingFu]

I don't have a Mac cause I don't overpay for mediocre specs

:D

[Trenton]

I don't have a Mac cause I don't overpay for mediocre specs

:D This. :D

[Zeus]

I don't have a Mac cause I don't overpay for mediocre specs

:D

Isn't that what anything luxury is?

[KingFu]

Isn't that what anything luxury is?

Anything expensive can arguably be considered "luxury", some forms of luxury are impractical and overpriced, others are worth the money and are of substantial quality.

Not saying it's a bad thing. Everything from electronics, to watches, to cars. Some forms of luxury are just more rational than others. Laptops are just one of the ones where quality for the dollar is more significant than what is considered "luxury".

So no, luxury doesn't = overpaying.

[Zeus]

Anything expensive can arguably be considered "luxury", some forms of luxury are impractical and overpriced, others are worth the money and are of substantial quality.

Not saying it's a bad thing. Everything from electronics, to watches, to cars. Some forms of luxury are just more rational than others. Laptops are just one of the ones where quality for the dollar is more significant than what is considered "luxury".

So no, luxury doesn't = overpaying.

Show me a Windows laptop with an excellent quality trackpad and efficient interface. Then, I will believe you. As of right now, I can justify spending the money on a Macbook Pro. Why? I can actually use it without even missing an external mouse. I don't feel like my head is going to explode like it does whenever I switch to a friend's Windows laptop.

[KingFu]

Show me a Windows laptop with an excellent quality trackpad and efficient interface. Then, I will believe you. As of right now, I can justify spending the money on a Macbook Pro. Why? I can actually use it without even missing an external mouse. I don't feel like my head is going to explode like it does whenever I switch to a friend's Windows laptop.

If you're looking at $300 Toshibas then of course. Just about any fair price ranged Windows laptop will have a respectable trackpad, whether it be Lenovo, Samsung. $2k for just a trackpad is a lot in the first place...

[TheStoic]

If I have the money, I'll buy this one. Im currently using MacBook Air, enough for my work needs, but I don't recommend using it in playing AL.

[Zeus]

If you're looking at $300 Toshibas then of course. Just about any fair price ranged Windows laptop will have a respectable trackpad, whether it be Lenovo, Samsung. $2k for just a trackpad is a lot in the first place...

$900-1000 can get you a good trackpad as well. Also, while the trackpads on higher end Windows laptops are good, they still leave me wanting. Honestly, you'd think as the trackpad is one of the main way of user input on the laptop, they'd perfect the experience. Each Windows laptop I have used, even the higher end ones, have always left me wanting to have an external mouse.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Windows 8, but I don't like the shoddy build quality of many Windows laptop. Thus, I get the best of both worlds on my Mac laptop.

[KingFu]

Thus, I get the best of both worlds on my Mac laptop.

>.>

[Cascade]

Track-pads? Ew.

[Zeus]

Track-pads? Ew.

You haven't tried an Apple trackpad then.

[Cascade]

You haven't tried an Apple trackpad then.

I have used my dad's mac, yes. They have some useful features, but you just can't beat a mouse.

[KingFu]

You haven't tried an Apple trackpad then.

I have, and I can say they're not as amazing as you're making them sound for me. I've used a lot of other trackpads were just as enjoyable, Macs just manage to have more functionality with them, which is a mixed bag.

I still prefer a Logitech mouse above anything else.

[Matutd]

You could buy a razer blade laptop and have change, or you could buy a mac, the choice is pretty obvious.

[KingFu]

You could buy a razer blade laptop and have change, or you could buy a mac, the choice is pretty obvious.

But then you won't have an apple that radiates with a luminous white glow on the back of your laptop!

[loliamsocool]

If we're talking about computer mouse, this may be a little overrated and expensive, but I'd take the Alienware TactX Mouse any day.

[KingFu]

Logitech G700 > All

[loliamsocool]

Logitech G700 > All

The Logitech's run distant second after the TactX ^^, actually right now I'm using the bluetooth travel mouse made by Logitech, it's decent.

[KingFu]

The Logitech's run distant second after the TactX ^^, actually right now I'm using the bluetooth travel mouse made by Logitech, it's decent.

I only really love the G700 and the M705. The Anywhere Mouse isn't bad either.

[Zeus]

I have used my dad's mac, yes. They have some useful features, but you just can't beat a mouse.

I'm not saying you can but the only trackpad that I have grown to like is Apple's. Also, keep in mind that my entire family is computer engineers and they all have multiple high end laptops that I get to play around with. So, while some may say that my view is biased, I refuse to think so.

I've dealt with Windows products for 15 years. Yes, I do enjoy their new OS, but the laptops they run on is their Achilles's heel, in my honest opinion.

@David
The apple trackpad is the only trackpad that made me not miss an external mouse when I'm on the go. Yes, some other laptops come close but not close enough. You have to admit, Apple does dominate laptops when it comes to their trackpad. As the main input, you should expect the main method of input to be near perfection which Apple has come close to doing.

[loliamsocool]

They all have pretty decent scrolling and seems a lot smoother when double clicking/triple clicking/spam clicking, and that's pretty much all I care about, I do like the speed at which the mouse pointer moves, not to fast, not too slow.

[loliamsocool]

I'm not saying you can but the only trackpad that I have grown to like is Apple's. Also, keep in mind that my entire family is computer engineers and they all have multiple high end laptops that I get to play around with. So, while some may say that my view is biased, I refuse to think so.

I've dealt with Windows products for 15 years. Yes, I do enjoy their new OS, but the laptops they run on is their Achilles's heel, in my honest opinion.

@David
The apple trackpad is the only trackpad that made me not miss an external mouse when I'm on the go. Yes, some other laptops come close but not close enough. You have to admit, Apple does dominate laptops when it comes to their trackpad. As the main input, you should expect the main method of input to be near perfection which Apple has come close to doing.

I can't deal with the trackpads, the mouse pointer movement is much too slow...

[Schnitzel]

To: Apollo, Mystical, Cascade
This thread was about the new mac pros.
Not about whether apple or windows are better. Everyone is either neutral or prefers one computer brand over the other.
So can we go back to the topic of "Mac Pro!"?

[Zeus]

I can't deal with the trackpads, the mouse pointer movement is much too slow...

You can bump it up...

[KingFu]

So can we go back to the topic of "Mac Pro!"?

No.

It looks like a trash can.

New topic pls.

@Parth. I'll agree their trackpads are pretty great compared to a lot of others out there, but I don know how much that's saying considering the price of the actual laptop as a whole.

[Cascade]

To: Apollo, Mystical, Cascade
This thread was about the new mac pros.
Not about whether apple or windows are better. Everyone is either neutral or prefers one computer brand over the other.
So can we go back to the topic of "Mac Pro!"?

You obviously didn't read my posts, I never mentioned Windows at all.

[WhoIsThis]

I'd be more worried about the heat output of that Mac Pro. Let's just say that if I were to put that thing under x264 encoding for hours on end, I'd be concerned. If the specs are right, we're talking 2 GPUs (~250W TDP each) and 2 CPUs (~125W TDP each), so 750W of heat in a fairly tightly enclosed space. I'll withhold judgement though until I see some real world benchmarks and temperature tests.

That and well ... it's a professional workstation. Maybe in consumer products, it's ok to have no modularity, but in a professional machine ... that's a serious weak point. If the GPUs (often upgraded) are soldered in, it could be an issue.

Also on the note of the Apple trackpad, Apple may have one of the best trackpads on any laptop around, but it's still not as good as a mouse.

Edit:
Oh and there does not appear to be support for Nvidia GPUs, although it may be added at a later date. For certain applications, like After Effects, not having CUDA support could be an issue. Well, it is possible that if the GPUs are not soldered (not sure if they are or are not yet), then Nvidia ones could be installed. But the form factor means that very specialized GPUs specifically for this model (ex: expensive) would have to be bought.

[Schnitzel]

To: Apollo, Mystical, Cascade
This thread was about the new mac pros.
Not about whether apple or windows are better. Everyone is either neutral or prefers one computer brand over the other.
So can we go back to the topic of "Mac Pro!"?

You obviously didn't read my posts, I never mentioned Windows at all.
K sorry.

[WhoIsThis]

Second thing I've noticed, this product only has 4 DIMM slots, at least based on what I've read. This could be a problem for certain high RAM applications.

[KingFu]

I'd be more worried about the heat output of that Mac Pro. Let's just say that if I were to put that thing under x264 encoding for hours on end, I'd be concerned. If the specs are right, we're talking 2 GPUs (~250W TDP each) and 2 CPUs (~125W TDP each), so 750W of heat in a fairly tightly enclosed space. I'll withhold judgement though until I see some real world benchmarks and temperature tests.

The entire center console is for environmental maintanence. The GPUs are set up like a triangle with the center being the entire fan to avoid overheating, so it supposedly won't be an issue. The heat will also escape from the top.


That and well ... it's a professional workstation. Maybe in consumer products, it's ok to have no modularity, but in a professional machine ... that's a serious weak point. If the GPUs (often upgraded) are soldered in, it could be an issue.

They are. Apple's solution for making upgrades it utilizing the 4 Thunderbolt ports.

[WhoIsThis]

I do realize they have a triangle formation, but still ... 750W of power potentially at full load in such an area; as I said, I want to see the temperature results. Remember - Apple is not infallible. The Macbook Pros were notorious for overheating for good reason. If I were in the market for one, I'd wait a few months until the first few hiccups get solved.

The issue with Thunderbolt ports is, they are reasonably effective for external storage (critical for video professionals), but for other things, a subpar solution at best. For external PCI-E cards, extra GPUs (yes there are professional applications that need more than 2), and other expansion, it may prove to be a subpar solution. The external housings for such cards tend to be pricey and with their own issues. I guess this one comes down to, what are you doing with your Mac Pro. For some applications though, it looks like Apple has thrown them under the bus, so to speak.

[KingFu]

I do realize they have a triangle formation, but still ... 750W of power potentially at full load in such an area; as I said, I want to see the temperature results. Remember - Apple is not infallible. The Macbook Pros were notorious for overheating for good reason. If I were in the market for one, I'd wait a few months until the first few hiccups get solved.

Part of their overheating was due to their aluminum unibody though. This doesn't have that as a factor. I also wouldn't say it's fair to compare a laptop's overheating to a desktop, especially when they vary this greatly.


The issue with Thunderbolt ports is, they are reasonably effective for external storage (critical for video professionals), but for other things, a subpar solution at best. For external PCI-E cards, extra GPUs (yes there are professional applications that need more than 2), and other expansion, it may prove to be a subpar solution. The external housings for such cards tend to be pricey and with their own issues. I guess this one comes down to, what are you doing with your Mac Pro. For some applications though, it looks like Apple has thrown them under the bus, so to speak.

Exactly why their solution is impractical. External storage will work beautifully with it, but anything else it won't do justice for.

[WhoIsThis]

For anything computationally intensive, I'd agree. I personally would not buy it.

The things I use or may use a desktop for are high end gaming, video encoding, music compression, file compression, and perhaps 3D modeling. I may also elect to do things like Folding@Home. For all of these, Apple does not offer a competitive solution, even less so when the price is factored in.

[Zeus]

Honestly, if I were to buy a desktop, it wouldn't be one from Apple. I already have two and although I want a Mac Pro... I know that a Windows desktop will have the power I need. When it comes to a desktop, build quality is not as prevalent of an issue as there is less moving parts. Thus, I can lean more towards purchasing a Windows desktop.

[WhoIsThis]

Honestly, if I were to buy a desktop, it wouldn't be one from Apple. I already have two and although I want a Mac Pro... I know that a Windows desktop will have the power I need. When it comes to a desktop, build quality is not as prevalent of an issue as there is less moving parts. Thus, I can lean more towards purchasing a Windows desktop.

I am generally of the opinion that Apple's build quality is vastly overblown in most cases - form over function. Look for example at the iPhone 4 and 4S - double glass. I had a friend who worked in a smartphone repair shop - he said 90% of the phones that came in were iPhones. The truth is when people really mean "build quality" they mean materials and their subjective opinions on how it feels in their hands, which Apple does leave a very good first impression. That being said, for long term, build quality really should mean durability and Apple is pretty unremarkable in that regard. They do however offer the best customer service around.

Actually Parth, compared to a mobile phone, a desktop has a ton of "moving parts".

- The power supply fan
- Any gpu fans
- The cpu cooler fan
- The case fans
- Any if you use them, any hard drive platters

Of course, I would argue on a subatomic level, everything is "moving" in a sense - indeed it's remarkable that we are able to synchronize everything so well together. But compare this with a smartphone, which really does not have "moving parts".


In general though, when it comes to specs, Apple does not emphasize them as much. First, they put an emphasis on "user experience" for the consumer (although specs are of huge importance for the professional and enthusiast markets) and I think they know that in a spec war, in terms of price to performance, Apple would lose badly. Base price isn't that bad, but upgrading an Apple machine is extremely expensive. If you do not believe me, trying building one on their website then comparing the hardware parts prices with those at Newegg. That and of course, the latest iMacs are soldered or glued in parts so upgrade potential is limited beyond the RAM DIMMs.

It is important to keep in mind that the parts powering Apple's machines are fundamentally the same (which is why they can run Windows via Boot Camp) as their Windows/Linux counterparts. When Apple swapped over to x86 they lost unique parts in favor of greater compatibility.

[loliamsocool]

I'd be more worried about the heat output of that Mac Pro. Let's just say that if I were to put that thing under x264 encoding for hours on end, I'd be concerned. If the specs are right, we're talking 2 GPUs (~250W TDP each) and 2 CPUs (~125W TDP each), so 750W of heat in a fairly tightly enclosed space. I'll withhold judgement though until I see some real world benchmarks and temperature tests.

That and well ... it's a professional workstation. Maybe in consumer products, it's ok to have no modularity, but in a professional machine ... that's a serious weak point. If the GPUs (often upgraded) are soldered in, it could be an issue.

Also on the note of the Apple trackpad, Apple may have one of the best trackpads on any laptop around, but it's still not as good as a mouse.

Edit:
Oh and there does not appear to be support for Nvidia GPUs, although it may be added at a later date. For certain applications, like After Effects, not having CUDA support could be an issue. Well, it is possible that if the GPUs are not soldered (not sure if they are or are not yet), then Nvidia ones could be installed. But the form factor means that very specialized GPUs specifically for this model (ex: expensive) would have to be bought.

You actually nailed this one on the spot, I am using a Mac Pro and this baby heats up extremely fast. Any program containing any video or lots of movement (GIFs, YouTube, games, etc.) and the Mac Pro will heat up extremely fast. I can feel the heat when I'm typing on the keyboard at this very moment.

[Schnitzel]

I'd be more worried about the heat output of that Mac Pro. Let's just say that if I were to put that thing under x264 encoding for hours on end, I'd be concerned. If the specs are right, we're talking 2 GPUs (~250W TDP each) and 2 CPUs (~125W TDP each), so 750W of heat in a fairly tightly enclosed space. I'll withhold judgement though until I see some real world benchmarks and temperature tests.

That and well ... it's a professional workstation. Maybe in consumer products, it's ok to have no modularity, but in a professional machine ... that's a serious weak point. If the GPUs (often upgraded) are soldered in, it could be an issue.

Also on the note of the Apple trackpad, Apple may have one of the best trackpads on any laptop around, but it's still not as good as a mouse.

Edit:
Oh and there does not appear to be support for Nvidia GPUs, although it may be added at a later date. For certain applications, like After Effects, not having CUDA support could be an issue. Well, it is possible that if the GPUs are not soldered (not sure if they are or are not yet), then Nvidia ones could be installed. But the form factor means that very specialized GPUs specifically for this model (ex: expensive) would have to be bought.

You actually nailed this one on the spot, I am using a Mac Pro and this baby heats up extremely fast. Any program containing any video or lots of movement (GIFs, YouTube, games, etc.) and the Mac Pro will heat up extremely fast. I can feel the heat when I'm typing on the keyboard at this very moment.
Just wondering. On the apple website. The only picture of a mac pro is a giant silver box. So...is that the WHOLE mac pro? And why is it so expensive?

[loliamsocool]

Just wondering. On the apple website. The only picture of a mac pro is a giant silver box. So...is that the WHOLE mac pro? And why is it so expensive?

Technically the things in the box (Motherboard, fans, RAM, hard drive, graphic cards, etc.) are the computer, alot of people think of computer as the monitor only, but actually the box is the "computer". The thing that displays the information I.E. the monitor is not the computer itself.

[WhoIsThis]

Just wondering. On the apple website. The only picture of a mac pro is a giant silver box. So...is that the WHOLE mac pro? And why is it so expensive?

Apple's Mac Pros have always commanded premium prices. Although to be honest, the higher end workstations that competing vendors sell for Windows and Linux are themselves quite pricey as you start upgrading, although not as much as Apple's. OT but, I know that among the low end products, Dell's support is crap, but among their higher end products, like their workstations and Alienware products, they offer next day on site service and other benefits, whereas with Apple, often you'd have to bring it to the Apple store (which could be an issue if you live far from one) or RMA by mail (costly for a tower and it means down time, which may not be acceptable).

In general with these workstations, you buy, and then you keep it running for 3-5 years, although I do know a few people who NEED the latest and greatest (their cycle is usually 2 years per upgrade). Cryptography for example, which uses the 7990 this gen and the 6990 before (Nvidia cards are not competitive in this area). As I hinted earlier, the people who are really screwed with this design are the ones who need GPU-intensive stuff. Likely no CUDA support, GPUs non-upgradeable (and for GPGPU operations, a new GPU is a huge advantage, sometimes over than 2x the performance). On the upside, I think it may be a good thing for the industry to move away from CUDA and more towards OpenCL. That and the heat output of course from GPUs (they get hot and that cooling system makes me nervous).


Technically the things in the box (Motherboard, fans, RAM, hard drive, graphic cards, etc.) are the computer, alot of people think of computer as the monitor only, but actually the box is the "computer". The thing that displays the information I.E. the monitor is not the computer itself.

Yep. To be honest, a lot of people were expecting Apple to unveil a "retina" cinema display. It does not look like it will be happening, at least not at this WWDC. I suppose some of those 4K displays could once they reach lower monitor sizes be "retina". On that note, the retina 4K display would be a pricey monitor, even for the professional sector.

[Zeus]

You actually nailed this one on the spot, I am using a Mac Pro and this baby heats up extremely fast. Any program containing any video or lots of movement (GIFs, YouTube, games, etc.) and the Mac Pro will heat up extremely fast. I can feel the heat when I'm typing on the keyboard at this very moment.

A new Mac Pro though? I thought those weren't released yet..

[loliamsocool]

A new Mac Pro though? I thought those weren't released yet..

Sorry, should have specified it was the most recent one that has been released. Or so I believe.

[WhoIsThis]

The other question I really have for the professional community is if it's a good idea to rely on Apple that much. The more I think about this, the more I think they are targeting less professionals and more high end "prosumers" (like Apollo). I mean there are other signs that Apple is slowly leaving the Pro market, from the changes to the Macbook Pros (including the abandonment of the 17" and the retina's being pretty much big versions of the Macbook Air) to the changes made in Final Cut X.

I can certainly see why - had they introduced another big tower, it would have been well received among the pro market, but it would have zero chance in the consumer market. Right now the Pro market is probably more or less a rounding error for Apple in sales - even if it did keep Apple alive during the struggles in the 1990s. It's a strategy to "upsell" people who would otherwise buy the iMac (which increasingly contains laptop parts) to buy the Mac Pro.