PvP balance?

[vholt]

Should be taken lightly. I'm not demanding or asking for anything to be implemented. However, I will be suggesting ideas.

I found stunlock made mages o.p. back before 26 cap. It was usually what mages relied on. (auto-attack stun, fireball stun, gale stun.)

Although it affected other classes too, the stun immunity impacted sorcs the most. It took away this stunlock ability.

If criticals from aim shot are what make rogues o.p... With the newly implemented feeble effect, maybe that could be applied? Such as feeble after enemies lands a critical for a short period of time? Maybe it could help balance rogues out with sorcs.

For warriors, they dont really have a certain move that is over the top, except in team-fighting. In team-fighting it feels like the one team with most warriors win. This is because of the shields from HoR that can be applied to a whole team. When this happens, its 5 invincible people vs 5 vulnerable for 2-3 seconds. This can make a big difference when it can be multiplied by 5. (10 seconds of invincibility for the whole team) if the whole team is warrior. This means full warrior team is broken. Thats why team with most warriors win. Idk how there would be a fix to it, i'm just drawing attention towards it.

[Energizeric]

Yeah, I've always thought the invincibility should only apply to the caster, while the heal affect should apply to the whole party. I think that would help solve this issue. It would not nerf warriors in any way since 1-on-1 they would still be the same. They just wouldn't be so OP in groups.

[vholt]

Yeah, I've always thought the invincibility should only apply to the caster, while the heal affect should apply to the whole party. I think that would help solve this issue. It would not nerf warriors in any way since 1-on-1 they would still be the same. They just wouldn't be so OP in groups.

Yes i was thinking that too, but of course that effect should be separate of pve and pvp then.

[Osahete]

Hey,

I dont really agree.. warriors have this skill and its for good reason. If you have a warrior in your pvp party you like that skill for the first incoming hits too i imagine and when its a crowd fight too. What makes the warrior OP in my opinion is the combo with the stun AND the pull they have... This makes it very difficult to battle warrior, let alone two - five in pvp.


Tho I was in a party with four rogues against 5 warriors yesterday and first we got killed a lot, but then we went as a group and they all died and left the game.. hahaha

Also sts will never make it so there is a difference between pvp and pve, so discussion about it seems kinda without a point imao

Rogues critical hits are nasty yes, there should not be a one-shot kill for any class. Especially since rogues mostly (not all of them, but s lot) hide just around the corner or out of reach... how can we kill and stun them then?

Sts is planning a fine tuning of sorts soon, I hope some of these issues will be addressed then.

tc,
Osa

[vholt]

Also sts will never make it so there is a difference between pvp and pve, so discussion about it seems kinda without a point imao


Uhm... They've made it so timeshift doesnt root, and Frost Bolt doesn't freeze in pvp. They've already implemented stun immunity which is different to pve. So.. ???


Also, i was think maybe the shield would apply to every toon in range. However, the heal only applies to your teammates. That way, you and your teammates get some breathing room, to heal and not get attacked. The fact enemies get the shield too would be a balancer so you don't get an unfair advantage of fighting invicible, but instead get the advantage to heal a couple of seconds without harm. That way, warriors have to use HoR more strategically, instead of consecutively having 3 warriors shield after another. So instead of 6 seconds of being invincible and attacking enemies with no harm, warriors will think twice about having 6 seconds of nothing.

[Osahete]

Uhm... They've made it so timeshift doesnt root, and Frost Bolt doesn't freeze in pvp. They've already implemented stun immunity which is different to pve. So.. ???

Yes that's true.. though those are minor adjustments.. not like scratching something all together...

I do agree that maybe lessening the time to say 4 seconds would be better...

tho healing the opposite team just seems silly to me ;P

[jb57542]

[QUOTE=Osahete;1140321]Yes that's true.. though those are minor adjustments.. not like scratching something all together...[ /QUOTE]

Umm have you used ice on a mob when it freezes? You can stack it so you're opponent never moves I call this more than a minor adjustment... Mages are the most nerfed class in PVP between stun, time and ice plus are dependency on shield not to die from one hit rogues or warriors whirlwind of doom. Rogues and warriors both can load outs that can easily used for PvP and PVE where a good PvP mage must respect to be at their best for PVP vs PVE. Anyways enough ranting my two favorite suggestions are below to fix this issue.

1. Warriors shield ability should have a 7-10 sec immunity so it can't be applied again. Same idea that fixed mage stun lock.
2. Add in a skill load out that gets applied only when you enter a PvP arena. This will ensure ppl don't take advantage of it outside of pvp and makes the game fair to non-plat and most of all sorcerers.

[Energizeric]

[QUOTE=Osahete;1140321]1. Warriors shield ability should have a 7-10 sec immunity so it can't be applied again. Same idea that fixed mage stun lock.

That's not a bad solution either, but why not just eliminate the immunity from the other players and have it only apply to the warrior who uses the HOR skill. There is no need to have the entire party have immunity. Timed correctly, a 3-player team of a warrior and 2 rogues can kill off the entire other team -- just need the immunity cast by the warrior, and the rogues go to work on the other team and they are dead before the immunity expires.

As a sorcerer, when I see a team of multiple warriors and rogues, I just run the other way and stay away from that group, and if necessary find another game.

[Osahete]

Hey,
Energize, that quote actually belonged to JB :)

And i do agree that (tho only if i am on a team without a warrior myself) if i see a team with warriors and rogues, i run the other way (lol) but mostly just bail out and join a friend or a different team.

Because if i have a balanced team (warrior(s), rogue(s) and mage(s)) myself, i don't see the need to run, and confront the team myself. Here is exactly the gist of my argument. We as mages, and especially as mages I think, appreciate these warrior skills when we have them on our team!?

But, like i said before, rogue and warrior skills need to be balanced out more, to level the plain field so to speak.
A suggestion i would make to this end would be:

- warrior stun to last a shorter time
- warrior shield to last shorter
- warrior pull should have a shorter range
The way it is set up now, a warrior is way OP in my opinion.

if done this way, warriors still have the upper hand, but it does give the mages the change to strike back, instead of how we now die after 1: the warrior stuns us and 2: pulls us close, then 3: shields team (or any combination of those three).

Also for mages i would suggest (just like JB) a shorter load time for the shield (i have died many times just waiting for it to charge, this while a team with more then one warrior has almost twice that time shielded-> if timed correctly).
And second the auto attack that just takes way to long to charge...

Rogues should def have their one hit kill removed, or alternatively: we as mages should have more hp added to every INT point we place.

tc guys

[Energizeric]

Hey,
Energize, that quote actually belonged to JB :)

And i do agree that (tho only if i am on a team without a warrior myself) if i see a team with warriors and rogues, i run the other way (lol) but mostly just bail out and join a friend or a different team.

Because if i have a balanced team (warrior(s), rogue(s) and mage(s)) myself, i don't see the need to run, and confront the team myself. Here is exactly the gist of my argument. We as mages, and especially as mages I think, appreciate these warrior skills when we have them on our team!?

But, like i said before, rogue and warrior skills need to be balanced out more, to level the plain field so to speak.
A suggestion i would make to this end would be:

- warrior stun to last a shorter time
- warrior shield to last shorter
- warrior pull should have a shorter range
The way it is set up now, a warrior is way OP in my opinion.

if done this way, warriors still have the upper hand, but it does give the mages the change to strike back, instead of how we now die after 1: the warrior stuns us and 2: pulls us close, then 3: shields team (or any combination of those three).

Also for mages i would suggest (just like JB) a shorter load time for the shield (i have died many times just waiting for it to charge, this while a team with more then one warrior has almost twice that time shielded-> if timed correctly).
And second the auto attack that just takes way to long to charge...

Rogues should def have their one hit kill removed, or alternatively: we as mages should have more hp added to every INT point we place.

tc guys

I'm not sure what to say to this. While I surely welcome them to nerf warriors and rogues, if they do I will become invincible. As it is I can beat just about any warrior 1 on 1 who does not have an arcane hammer. If you nerf them a bit, then I will even be able to beat the Arcane Hammer warriors too.

And for rogues, I can pretty much take all but a few of them down easily 1 on 1. The only chance they have is if they attack me while my shield is in cooldown, then if they have a mythic bow or hooks they can usually kill me, but only if they can do it with one hit, because once they hit me once, if I am still alive I will stun them and they will be dead before the stun wears off. Another chance they have is if my shield is up, but my stun attempt misses (due to their high dodge%), and then from that point forward it is basically a 50/50 chance as to who will win.

So basically what you are suggesting is to take away warriors and rogues only abilities to win a fight against a top geared mage. While I welcome such a change, I don't see how doing so would help anything to become "balanced". If anything, it would do quite the opposite. LOL


Back when sorcerers were way underpowered (season 1 & 2) I was always complaining and posting about it. But PvP is pretty balanced now. If you are having trouble, then perhaps you have weak gear, or maybe you need to do a respec of either stats, skills, or both. Or maybe you just need a different strategy.

[Obi]

I just wonder why I'm dying when in green bubble (from HoR)? How this is possible? If I was dead before it was cast I should not be in the bubble, right? or is it something similar to charged shield failures?

[juaki]

I think it is balanced. Make you a warrior then prove it!!!

Warrior is the tank character, If you take off this skills, then what will warrior be? I recommend you have good warrior friends for call them if you need in pvp and dont play when 5 warriors are in the other side. And think about this skills in pve are necessary for help you, sorcerers and rogues, to be alive.

It's better not do changes now, wait your special season... I think it is close to appears.

If you change it who would like a warrior in their team!

[Natrich]

change aimshot crit to 200%

Mages might survive then :D

[Osahete]

Energize, (and hey Juaki)

Like I said, I like the way warriors are, and totally like the abilities they have! I was responding to above posts... Anyway... I was only suggesting a minor fine tuning (like i said above, twice!) which i think will happen anyways, since sts announced this already... But yes, the one kill shot, that happens to me A LOT in pvp, I would like to see changed.. And no, not only mythic bows or arcane hooks have this ability...

Also, like i said, i try to get into balanced teams, which i think are the best way to go at it in PvP... As i said in response to a post about 5 warriors above..

Then... since you are clearly fishing for it: yes you are a great PvP mage! There! :)

However: not everybody is as super skilled as you are (apparently) and so, we ponder a bit about the skills of all classes... Why you ask? Well, because we like to discuss till there is no tomorrow... your 3,676 post well above proof that point. And that's a good thing, don't get me wrong... We ponder and discuss and discuss again... Ah! the beauty of a forum :)

I will stop now since i am clearly on a rant here and in a strange sarcastic mood...

Cya out there!

[vholt]

In my opinion 1v1s are fairly balanced. A good sorc can take on a good warrior, a good rogue can take on a good sorc, a good tank can take on a good rogue, etc. However the problem is when it comes to teamfights. And the one with the most warriors win. The only reason for this is that shield that can be o.p. when multiplied. The attention should be focused there.

[juaki]

Well I propose limite the same character by two. Max two warriors, two socerers or two rogues in same team to make it funny.

Never reduce skills of chars... now I think is balanced.

[Osahete]

Well I propose limite the same character by two. Max two warriors, two socerers or two rogues in same team to make it funny.

Never reduce skills of chars... now I think is balanced.

That is a very nice idea... would be fun to see some more balanced teams out there :)

tc,
Osa

[vholt]

Well I propose limite the same character by two. Max two warriors, two socerers or two rogues in same team to make it funny.

Never reduce skills of chars... now I think is balanced.

This might make finding games take longer, as the criteria is now more specific, therefore making available games limited.

[juaki]

But players think that pvp is made for killing or flagging in order to get achievements. For doing it funny players have to know that the objective is score in the rival corner. Because it is a cooperative game not for killing or flagging.

When players respect this rules the pvp game will be great!!!

My suggestion would be rewarded with a flag to all components of the team that scores and is in the area of the opponents when the flagger scores.

Apart from individual kills, I reward the winning team with three kills each component of the winning team to finish the game, with the aim that the components do not leave the game until the end. The losing team with a kill each component with the same aim to end the game.

[yuannan]

to be real the warrior is very unbalanced, when you get to level 30 ish the damage really stretches out
W=170dps ish
M=220dps ish
R=260dps ish
the whole point of warrior is that they take the hits and keep on hitting. this is why you need a balanced teams, warriors and mages make the best team, damage and tank. not to mention stun and fire ball while being invincible. Rouge are quite good but their health is crappy despite the damage. i a level 19 warrior and normally when i fight bosses i used the shield and the chained axe to keep the enemy close enough to me and not die. the stupid retards go right up to the boss while th red zone is there. they get on hit K.O ed i survive and by the time they find thier way back to the boss i take the loot and get out of there.

[juaki]

I think the important thing is balance our skills. As a warrior you have to decide if you want more damage (make a build with entombed warfare with attack, damage and critical skills) o more defense (make a build with mythic sword with defenes, feble, etc.) it depends on your team mates and oponents. The combinations are infinite and you might prove a lot to get your best.

Make four combinations in your inventory slots and select one after testing fight, oponents and companions.

I really think this pvp game is balanced, but you need to potenciate your character, skills, equipement and the hability of your fingers.