AL Economy in Recession??

[Energizeric]

Yes, we are having economic problems here in AL. Speak to any merchant and they will tell you that nobody is buying anything lately. Most players who have items they want to sell are finding that when they list them in the auction, they just don't sell. There are many theories why this is happening, so here I will explain the problems:

Theory #1) Gold for Plat purchases has destroyed the economy!

Answer: WRONG....

Gold for Plat purchases increase the amount of gold in circulation, which causes inflation. In a global economy with many different countries (and thus many different currencies), when one country's currency has massive inflation, other countries may refuse to accept that currency as payment for goods and services, so that currency is devalued even more causing even more rapid inflation. The end result in runaway inflation which can cripple an economy.

However, unlike in the real world there are no other currencies in AL, so you can never have runaway inflation. Players cannot decide to trade in their gold for another currency. We are forced to use gold. So in the end, gold for plat purchases only cause a steady inflation which causes prices of all items to rise equally. It does not however cause any other problems with the economy.

And if gold loses enough of its value over time, fewer and fewer players will buy gold for plat since the amount of gold you are getting would not be worth the exchange anymore. Unless STS was to increase the amount of gold offered per plat spent (which they have never done), this will not be affected any.


Theory #2) Locked crates destroy the economy because the mythic and arcane items are way too rare.

Answer: WRONG....

Rare and expensive items never destroy any economy. If anything, they give incentive for people to work towards obtaining those items. There is a reason people work hard for a living in some countries while in others they don't get much productivity out of the work force. It all depends on how much upward mobility there is. Yes, not everyone will be able to obtain the best items --- if it were possible for everyone to obtain, then they wouldn't be "rare", and they would no longer be "expensive". But some players who work hard will be able to obtain these items, and that alone actually helps the economy.


Theory #3) Locked crates destroy the economy because of the cheap and common "junk" pinks that come out of them.

Answer: CORRECT!

Locked crates are destroying the economy because there is a pink legendary item in each crate, some which have very good stats (Bonechill Bow for example). Because there is one in every crate, these "crate pinks" have become so common that the price of them has fallen to less than 500 gold each in many cases. Since the stats of these crate pinks are often times better than some of the pinks that come from Elite Chests and some of the pinks that fall from Elite Bosses, those pinks are losing their value as well.

As a result, an end game player can gear up his character with decent legendary pink gear for only a few thousand gold. Beyond that there is really no other options for most players. The "elite" pinks that drop from bosses (noble armors/helms, entombed hammers, nordr staffs, etc.) are only slightly better than the crate pinks, and since the cost of these elite pinks is 20x as much as the crate pinks, players have pretty much stopped buying these items as well. It's just not worth such a big price increase for such a small stat increase.

So in order to get noticeably better stats than the crate pinks, you must go all the way up to mythics which cost 30m+ for a complete set. Since most players do not see the possibility of ever being able to afford these very expensive items, they have given up and are just in a holding pattern where they are saving their gold for next season.

"Elite" end game players normally spend their time farming the elite dungeons, and selling the elite chests/pinks that they get. They then save their gold and buy the pricey mythic and arcane items. However, since nobody is buying the elite chests & pinks, these players have been unable to raise much gold. As a result, players with mythic and arcane items for sale are also having problems selling those items as nobody can afford them. Normally when nobody can afford an item the price will drop. But since players know this will all change once the next season starts, most of them are holding their pricey items and waiting to sell until they find a buyer who will pay the high price.

And of course merchants (including myself) have not been able to make much gold on anything lately, so I've stopped merching for the most part.


WHAT IS THE SOLUTION???

Answer:

The only "fix" to these problems would be the following:

1) STS must step in and buy up all the excess crate pinks in the auction (just as the Federal Reserve bought up the crap mortgages when our economy was on the verge of collapse 5 years ago). Let STS make a toon, give that toon a few million gold, and let them buy up every crate pink in the auction that is priced below what they decide should be the floor for these items. And continue to do that for a week or two until the prices of these items rebound to what they should be.

2) Stop giving a legendary pink item in every crate. Let the crates have a chance for a pink -- maybe 1 in 10. Because right now it doesn't even matter that you get a pink in each crate if they are worth only 500 gold each. Nobody cares and nobody is opening crates to get these cheap crappy pinks. Players are only happy when they get mythic or arcane. So at least if the pinks were worth what a pink should be worth, players would be happy when they get one.

Once these crate pinks go back up in price, the elite pinks will become a worthy alternative again and players will start buying those again, and then the "elite" players will be able to sell the items they farm and they too will now have extra cash to spend on mythics and the whole economy will start moving again, which is what I think we all want. I think this would even result in players opening more crates, not less. Because if you knew opening a crate was more than an "all or nothing" chance, maybe you would be more likely to open one.

[Wowsome]

pink is the new purple :)

[Valsacar]

Economics has proven that setting a "floor" price is not the way to fix things.

[yasshh]

In point 1 of solutions..if sts creates a toon n put sum millions in it den dose millions circulate all over arlor wich came frm nowhere..thus causin imbalances in economy....
In point 2-it wud b bettr to decrease d rarity of mythics dan increasin rarity of pinks
In point 3-if ppl start buying elite chests d prices of dese chests wil go up..
At the end-u cant really do anything to make it a better economy coz its a VICIOUS CIRCLE which revolves around plats

[drgrimmy]

Other problems:

1) There is a lack of influx of gold into the economy. Unlike other sts games it is hard to make a significant amount of gold from gold drops and liquidating junk items you get from drops. The price of feeding pets and buying pots pretty much eats away at any significant amount of money you gain this way. Furthermore, in the beginning of the game I think there was a lot of gold purchase with plat which fueled the economy. I know I did it once or twice in the beginning, but have not since season one. With the advent of crates, much plat spending has likely shifted from buying gold to opening crates in an attempt to get lucky and make a huge amount of gold from mythic and arcane items. This has decreased the influx of gold into the game via plat. Perhaps this is one reason sts started putting gold into the crates, in a last ditch attempt to influx more gold into a failing economy.

2) Of the gold that is in the game, it appears to have been concentrating in the hands of a few very rich people, especially those that deal in high value items. Not that these players should be blamed for their success, but it leaves less money in the hands of others to keep the economy moving, especially if there in not a constant influx of new gold into the game for the new players.

3) In addition to the market being saturated by pinks from crates, it is also being saturated by pinks from the elite mines and the arena. Noble armor has been dropping like rain from the arena, and just look what it has done to the prices in the auction house.

4) A lot of prominent players have been leaving the game in the last season or two, taking their gold with them.

The list goes on, and is multifactorial with no good fix, although I believe the root of the problem is a lack of influx of gold into the economy.

[SkullCrusher]

Crates shouldn't even be implemented. Because if pinks didn't drop so much from crates then the hard working farmers will be able to sell their good pinks once again since many people are too lazy to farm their own items. Just think about it for a minute.
-Skull.

[Rare]

Crates shouldn't even be implemented. Because if pinks didn't drop so much from crates then the hard working farmers will be able to sell their good pinks once again since many people are too lazy to farm their own items. Just think about it for a minute.
-Skull.

Too lazy? Or can't. The only farming I see going on is in rooks nest. This game isn't conducive to large scale elite running.

Most of the selling I see in the trader's forum is for mythic or twink stuff. Or pets. Who is farming? Hardly anyone. It can't really be argued. The numbers speak for themselves. Look in cs and see how many good noble items are available.

What IS there an abundance of? Malison. Why, because it's am easier map to farm. And really the only one I consistently find pugs at.

There's a simple fix, but the powers that be don't want it to change for the reasons you mentioned. Crates are being opened. A lot. Why change?

In my opinion, pugs are the most important part of the game for the majority of players. There are a small minority that can easily pick up a party and farm elite. The rest? Well they're stuck farming nexus and malison. Pugs have been major problem since kraken was released. The party system should be fixed. It will take this game to a different level.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Puntus]

I think the problem its the best items re overpriced, cause of this the people didnt buy it, for example mythic amulet for warrior last price in cs 5,5M , crazy price , only up int ,armor and heal stats not the dmg abd dps , conclusion: overpriced.
Mythic ring cost the same to mythic armor , thats crazy because mythic armor have better stats.
Arcane pets now costs: 15-20M , thats crazy because the stats rent arcane stats, overpriced too.

This is the problem energizeric, the players who have the better items to sell are greedy.

Thanks and regards

[TheStoic]

I think the problem its the best items re overpriced, cause of this the people didnt buy it, for example mythic amulet for warrior last price in cs 5,5M , crazy price , only up int ,armor and heal stats not the dmg abd dps , conclusion: overpriced.
Mythic ring cost the same to mythic armor , thats crazy because mythic armor have better stats.
Arcane pets now costs: 15-20M , thats crazy because the stats rent arcane stats, overpriced too.

This is the problem energizeric, the players who have the better items to sell are greedy.

Thanks and regards

Arcane pets should be priced as such considering their rarity. In the world of Arlor, only 2 classes remains, those poor and the mythic players, the middle class are slowly disappearing and some, imo, are quitting the game. Why? because, there's not much to do for average players? Dailies, pvp (needs the best gear to excel).

[jtst]

Prices on mythics maintain high because of people hoarding them in bundles, market price should be 20-30% lower and return to same level with new cap.
I agree with TimeWizard, there is not much to do for average player. Hence it's time for new Legend-series game.

[CrimsonTider]

Too lazy? Or can't. The only farming I see going on is in rooks nest. This game isn't conducive to large scale elite running.

Most of the selling I see in the trader's forum is for mythic or twink stuff. Or pets. Who is farming? Hardly anyone. It can't really be argued. The numbers speak for themselves. Look in cs and see how many good noble items are available.

What IS there an abundance of? Malison. Why, because it's am easier map to farm. And really the only one I consistently find pugs at.

There's a simple fix, but the powers that be don't want it to change for the reasons you mentioned. Crates are being opened. A lot. Why change?

In my opinion, pugs are the most important part of the game for the majority of players. There are a small minority that can easily pick up a party and farm elite. The rest? Well they're stuck farming nexus and malison. Pugs have been major problem since kraken was released. The party system should be fixed. It will take this game to a different level.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Exactly what the problem is. As said a million times before, PL is the most successful STS game because of it's balance between farmers and merchants, the ability to join quick games, and the ease to make gold through liquidation; NONE of which exist in AL. I said during Beta, the plat for gold exchange would ruin the game... and it is.

I am sorry Energizeric, but if you, and others, don't see this then you're not being realistic. When people can buy their gold, there is no NEED to farm. Everyone just sits and waits on the few crates to fall into cs from the few farmers while the others PvP or spend all their time working toward the timed run LB's. And as Aedenos pointed out (and JaytB mentioned in PL yesterday), organizing farming runs is a pain. This reduces the amount of farmers thus decreasing the amount of crates in game. A strong point in all STS games is non-existent in their *cough* most popular.

Another problem you are running into which you do not see (or haven't realized) is a lot of people are beginning to return to their original STS loves and are abandoning AL. Many others are running to other games outside of the STS library. This is easy to see by just watching forums each day. Justg's assessment of this games popularity is based on downloads, which is a false positive. This means people may be downloading it, but doesn't mean they are sticking with it as they have with PL.

There is more to this than just one simple explanation as you have shown. You are looking in from a merchants point of view. I have heard from others many issues currently at hand. Ease of play in these games is HUGE and something AL just cannot offer.

[thehopeless]

Arcane pets should be priced as such considering their rarity. In the world of Arlor, only 2 classes remains, those poor and the mythic players, the middle class are slowly disappearing and some, imo, are quitting the game. Why? because, there's not much to do for average players? Dailies, pvp (needs the best gear to excel).

The part about PvP I disagree with as I've maybe spent 150k or so on gear and can fair just fine. As for the economy, it is screwed up and people have been saying this for awhile. Usually those posts get deleted very quickly such as the case with a few of Cains and Grimmys posts about this. Maybe they worded it wrong but the truth is the truth and something has to be done or this game will die very soon.

[Kostral]

maybe some of huge amount of gold owner has blocked the flux eh ? :)

[Romifrity]

In my country one dolar cost 10pesos! For me is impossible!!! I will delete this game cause is a lie!!!

[Skaunared]

it is true that gold influx is slow nowadays. i think it is because it is so hard to farm right now. unlike those days when farming was a breeze i.e. elite brackenbridge was just 1-2mins, new players gain gold easily unlike now.

[Valsacar]

What lie? You can download for free, play for free, get all the best gear for free (with a ton of work)... but you can enjoy the game for free with minimal effort.

[Lady_Pebbles]

I agree with most player who posted here (Especially Aedenos, CrimsonTider, and DrGrimmy).

I just like to add that on top of not getting decent gold drops to both be able to feed pets, pot up, and continuously farm like we normally do in other StS games.. oh and having to deal with the over priced items like someone else mentioned... we have a VERY HORRIBLE drop rate for "good" pinks (including eggs) without the use of elixirs. Which also make it difficult to keep up with all the expenses (including ridiculous listing fees).

The combination of high prices, high listing fees, pet feeds, potting up with a horrible drop rate without elixirs AND hardly any gold being looted on runs or quests AND liquidating items is pretty useless AND not everyone being good at merching... is simply not worth putting any effort into farming as new expansions and caps rise. Because theres no reward unless you have the plat to dish out.

Honestly, I miss the casual aspect of the StS games. When we could farm for about twenty mins and have some drops to make a decent profit to be able to afford the vital things in AL (pet feeds, pots, listing fees) at the level 16 & 21 caps... full elite runs... good ol' fashioned FUN! Once that casual aspect was tossed out the window, everything eventually went down hill from there. I just hope they can figure out better ways to fix all of these problems rooting in the AL economy without making it feel like its a full time job (or even a chore -.-) to make a profit on a freaken game... a game thats supposed to be time away from all that to begin with.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Im not saying make it easy! Im saying make it more casual and less of a chore. Challenging yet simple enough that it doesn't take about an hour for an elite run to finish... oh and more gold looted during those runs... so we can continue. For the love of gaming, give us stuff to farm that actually DROP WITHOUT ELIXERS.

[Energizeric]

Other problems:

1) There is a lack of influx of gold into the economy. Unlike other sts games it is hard to make a significant amount of gold from gold drops and liquidating junk items you get from drops. The price of feeding pets and buying pots pretty much eats away at any significant amount of money you gain this way. Furthermore, in the beginning of the game I think there was a lot of gold purchase with plat which fueled the economy. I know I did it once or twice in the beginning, but have not since season one. With the advent of crates, much plat spending has likely shifted from buying gold to opening crates in an attempt to get lucky and make a huge amount of gold from mythic and arcane items. This has decreased the influx of gold into the game via plat. Perhaps this is one reason sts started putting gold into the crates, in a last ditch attempt to influx more gold into a failing economy.

2) Of the gold that is in the game, it appears to have been concentrating in the hands of a few very rich people, especially those that deal in high value items. Not that these players should be blamed for their success, but it leaves less money in the hands of others to keep the economy moving, especially if there in not a constant influx of new gold into the game for the new players.

3) In addition to the market being saturated by pinks from crates, it is also being saturated by pinks from the elite mines and the arena. Noble armor has been dropping like rain from the arena, and just look what it has done to the prices in the auction house.

4) A lot of prominent players have been leaving the game in the last season or two, taking their gold with them.

The list goes on, and is multifactorial with no good fix, although I believe the root of the problem is a lack of influx of gold into the economy.


Yes, this is indeed a big issue as well. Maybe STS should increase gold drops in dungeons. I'm sure just a small increase would have a large affect. But yes, there does not seem to be enough gold floating around. Most players (including myself) do not have enough gold at this time to buy anything that is better than the gear they already have, so as I stated above they are in a holding pattern and waiting for something to happen. More gold in circulation could solve that issue.

[Energizeric]

Exactly what the problem is. As said a million times before, PL is the most successful STS game because of it's balance between farmers and merchants, the ability to join quick games, and the ease to make gold through liquidation; NONE of which exist in AL. I said during Beta, the plat for gold exchange would ruin the game... and it is.

I am sorry Energizeric, but if you, and others, don't see this then you're not being realistic. When people can buy their gold, there is no NEED to farm. Everyone just sits and waits on the few crates to fall into cs from the few farmers while the others PvP or spend all their time working toward the timed run LB's. And as Aedenos pointed out (and JaytB mentioned in PL yesterday), organizing farming runs is a pain. This reduces the amount of farmers thus decreasing the amount of crates in game. A strong point in all STS games is non-existent in their *cough* most popular.

Another problem you are running into which you do not see (or haven't realized) is a lot of people are beginning to return to their original STS loves and are abandoning AL. Many others are running to other games outside of the STS library. This is easy to see by just watching forums each day. Justg's assessment of this games popularity is based on downloads, which is a false positive. This means people may be downloading it, but doesn't mean they are sticking with it as they have with PL.

There is more to this than just one simple explanation as you have shown. You are looking in from a merchants point of view. I have heard from others many issues currently at hand. Ease of play in these games is HUGE and something AL just cannot offer.

This thread was specifically about the economy. Yes, I know there are other problems that the game has, but I was specifically addressing the economic issues here. But yes I agree with much of what you say.

I know a lot of the ranting here is coming from players who are young and have no economic knowledge outside of just thinking about it. I've taken many courses in economics when I was in college and have a good friend who is a wall street investment banker, so I do understand the macro economic issues here. The solution to fix the economy is to get it "going" -- meaning to get people buying and selling items again.

Any of you who are Americans probably remember all the talk several years ago of "stimulus", and the debates over how to fix the economy. That is what we need here, some sort of stimulus. As Grimmy mentioned, one way is to give an influx of gold into the economy.

Increasing or decreasing drop rates slightly is not going to fix anything. If they make more malison and nexus eggs fall, then the price of those items will just drop more. If they increase the drop rate of malison eggs by 100 times, then malison eggs will sell for 500 gold. I know it may "feel good" if you get more pink drops, but your bottom line is going to be the same at the end of the day. The issue is when I look in the auction and see 57 Radiant Stability rogue armors with the lowest listed for 175 gold, and this armor has stats almost as good as Noble & Champion rogue armor. This in itself is not a problem, but when the next best rogue armor beyond noble costs 11m gold (mythic), you have no middle between 175 gold and 11m gold. That is the problem right there. As was said above, there is no "middle class" in terms of gear. There is mythic players and then there is everyone else. There needs to be a middle.

If you are currently geared in the 175 gold armor, you need to have a path to upgrade incrementally. The player who has 5k gold saved does not see any possibility to reach 11m, so he just gives up and stops playing. If there was a nice armor that cost 10k gold which was a decent upgrade from what he had, then he would be inspired to work towards that.

So the solution is to make all the lower end gear less common, including the purples and greens even. Then the player with 175 gold would not be wearing the crate gear, but maybe would be wearing green gear. Then maybe for 1k he could upgrade to purple. Maybe the crate gear costs 10-20k, then the champion 30-40k, and then the noble 100k, and then it would be nice to see something even a little bit more premium between the noble and the mythic, maybe in that 1m price range.

There needs to be a path of upward mobility and enough gold in circulation that a player can work towards upgrading his gear and have incremental steps along the way. That will create more of a "middle class" in AL.

[Uzii]

So the solution is to make all the lower end gear less common, including the purples and greens even. Then the player with 175 gold would not be wearing the crate gear, but maybe would be wearing green gear. Then maybe for 1k he could upgrade to purple. Maybe the crate gear costs 10-20k, then the champion 30-40k, and then the noble 100k, and then it would be nice to see something even a little bit more premium between the noble and the mythic, maybe in that 1m price range.

There needs to be a path of upward mobility and enough gold in circulation that a player can work towards upgrading his gear and have incremental steps along the way. That will create more of a "middle class" in AL.

Then the green and purples need to have better stats as they have now to be actualy worth wearing. and noble i didnt see much noble around 100k. in the beginning of the expansion they costed 1m+. now the price is low but stats favourable noble costs still more then 100k.
But in general i like that idea. brings more variety and greens and purples can be more valuable not just junk predestined to be deleted.

[Rare]

a stimulus of gold, just like in our American economy isn't going to fix the underlying problem. It's a band aid, just like the stimulus package was. The only way to truly fix the problem is to fix the infrastructure. I outlined earlier what I believe to be the real problem. Fix that. More people have fun and play which means more gold in circulation. And more people buying and farming.

At this point, why bother buying anything if the game is handicapping me from playing?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[JaytB]

Maybe the whole of AL tries to make a statement.

Let's take a look at the current situation, a pendant or ring for 10m each, a 3m helm, some 12m for a cool armor, ow and let's buy an arcane weapon to go with all that good stuff for another 40m while we're at it. Maybe stuff would sell faster if people would price it more reasonable. You can't blame people to not want to invest 20m+ for some upgrade that might be outdated in a couple of months when something cooler or better comes around.

To me, the economy seems very much alive when I sell items worth 100k-1m easily. The Mythic and Arcane business might be down because people are getting smarter about their hard earned gold.

Your idea to increase the prices to get the 'economy flowing' again is interesting. You got to ask yourself this question though, Flowing for who exactly? The casual player or the rich players? I agree that it should be easier to make gold, but if it isn't, and people just can't buy those extreme high priced items anymore, sellers won't have a choice other than to sell their items for a price that people actually are willing to pay.

If STS would decide to get rid of the 100% chance to get a pink, some people will complain about how they don't get anything and how it's not fair. I realize getting a pink now is often similar to getting nothing but I think it still 'feels' better for the majority than actually getting nothing.

If I had to propose something, I'd go for more varied and better drops from farming and a better award of time spend vs awards earned (going from the party system to the difficulty, all the way up to gold from liquidation), that would come a long way.

This is the only STS game I played where farming actually costs, generally, a whole lot more gold coins than what you make of it, except if you get extremely lucky with drops and/or use luck Elix all the time. I know I would find the game a whole lot more interesting when I could hop in for an hour and actually achieve something. As things stand now, you can get lucky to get 1 or 2 runs done in a random group, with a really high chance of getting 7 gold liquidation fee.

I can only speak for myself, but that's not exactly my idea of fun. That's why I'd suggest doing something about that instead of making changes to the current way of gambling for good stuff with real money.

[Lady_Pebbles]

Very well said Aed & J. I agree completely.

[Chaim Nail]

I suspect the Leprechaun Pendant has had a noticable impact on the AL economy too.

At the time of the pendant release the locked crates were going for over 10k, I had 8 at the time and sold 6 along with a bunch of eggs to afford the pendant, but since getting it I've never farmed so many crates, and have seen the market price of them drop to 8k and below. I've got 29 now and I'm holding on to them for the price to rise when STS releases the next arcane/mythic item in locked crates everyone wants, I might even have to buy more inventory slots to cope with collecting them.

My warrior has the best legendary items available and the only way to boost stats now is to get mythic/arcane items which will require months of farming to afford the market prices, which may become more difficult if the AL economy gets worse.

[Zanpakuto]

Wow a thread that hits it home! I've been playing this game since November and have never seen an economy at a standstill! I completely agree with all of u! I've saved up what I could from dailies, and getting lucky here and there with item drops that I was able to sell. I managed to buy medium armor for my warrior and my rogue for less than 20k! Noble armor is like junk now! I can afford right now ONE cheap mythic, but I want to see what STS does with these high end items. I'm not going to blow millions on an item that becomes obsolete one day. Since Arcane items are frozen in time for stats, I will never blow 20M on those items other than pets. However people tell me that the arcane pets aren't even that great lol

In summary, I'm now saving up for the filthy rich achievement which is made easier by the outrageous prices of the mythic/arcane items which I don't feel like spending on when cheapie legendaries come close to or even exceed outdated orange and red items! In other words, people like me who don't spend or spend pennies and save the rest will contribute to a recession!

Don't even get me started on the Arena and how random PUGS can't do it nor regular elite Nordr maps. This game has gone downhills since the Kraken update when elite mode became undesirable for the casual gamer. I'm not ready to quit yet, but the thought has crossed my mind after 2 of my real life friends quit. What I have done is sworn off crates and chests. Those apparently still sell somewhat well!

Also while I saw someone mention leprechaun amulets, I'm really laughing at those things! The idea behind it I'm sure was to get people to pay to buy with plat, and then it would make people buy more plats to open their more common crates as a money revenue! You know it's working because the price of crates has fallen dramatically and thereby pushing the economy further into recession like what the OP has mentioned!

It's only going to get worse in next season because I'm sure many people are holding onto 100s of crates currently and will try the economy at the next expansion. Pinks will rain the market within a few hours after level cap and prices will plummet even faster than in Nordr expansion. Twinks may help initially, but there's only so many out there and I've noticed a major drop in twink gear prices lately too. It'll be interesting to see next season, and I'm sure Malison farming will still be one of the major pass times!

[Rogueulator]

I am a long time player and would like throw my two cents in.

1. The problem with this slow economy is not because of the market (CS), as free markets always correct themselves over time. Outside intervention is absurd and will ruin the dynamics of the markets. If people are willing to pay 10 mil for a mythic ring, then the price will remain there until there is an imbalance of supply or demand.

2. Locked crates are a double-edged sword, they help in one way but create a problem later on. Crates were introduced by STS simply because they had to generate more revenue from people spending platinum to open them. They helped level the playing field between the hardcore players and the casual players in terms of equipment and gold, depending on how rare the drops were. One lucky drop could be the equivalent of two seasons of farming. This disgusted some players, but it wasn't enough to turn them off from the game. People opening tons of crates was a win-win for everyone, as CS was being flooded with crate pinks, giving casual players the chance to buy quality equipment on the cheap. This did devalue some of the drops from farming and once again upset some players, but it was not enough to turn them off from the game.

3. The introduction of Kraken (and the one hit kill). Up until this point, the game was thriving, it was all good. Everyone could get a Malison (it was selling for 70k in CS, no joke). AL was voted best MMO 2012 etc, etc.. STS felt they weren't making enough money so they had to turn up the greed. Elite dungeons suddenly became harder. This really blew the talent disparity wide open. Weak players were exposed overnight, to the point where they had to spend plats to keep up or just had no chance either way. The good times were over. The elite players had to unite to get through these adverse conditions. The weak players were basically left fending for themselves because it was a losing battle to party with these players. It was all frustration and no reward. Shortly after, STS scaled back the strength of elite mobs as they felt they went overboard. By this time the damage had already been done. People who were bored, on the fence, disgusted, or couldn't compete left.

4. Introduction of Nodr (It gets even worse). The one hit kills become downright irrational at this point, further turning off players. Once again the elite players have to unite even tighter than before, leaving the noobs in the dust. As many already know from experience, weak pug parties have little chance in most of the new elite dungeons. In the meantime, Jarl, which was a noob sanctuary was nerfed to junk chests (up to level 26 items). Nordr regular dungeons aren't so bad until you got to the boss. Then they became quite difficult to kill and not worth it unless you had to finish a quest. After elite Spyr got nerfed, Oltgar is pretty much the only Nordr elite you can pug. Even that is a challenge for many players, shown by them leaving mid run or at boss. So what was left for the casual, noob, weak player? Locked crates! They still held value as there was a frenzy for mythic and arcane items. But now we fast forward to the present, where it is crazy easy to get a lock crate drop and the interest is down, rendering the current value to 7-8k per (it was as high as 40k at one point). With this type of economic slowdown for them (the majority), can we expect anything different from where we are at now?

Thanks for reading.

[Energizeric]

free markets always correct themselves over time

Free markets only correct themselves when there is room for expansion, i.e. new markets or resources. So to put this in AL terms, the market will correct itself as long as lots of new players are constantly joining and the population of regular players continues to increase. Once that stops, or the population begins to decrease, there will be no automatic correction and the economy will continue to stall even more.

To put this in real world terms, there is a reason when there are sanctions against a country (Iran for example) their economy usually goes down hill. Without expansion and new markets to buy from and sell to, your economy goes down hill.

[Rogueulator]

Correct doesn't necessarily mean recover or fix. Even stalling out or crashing is considered a correction. Intervention only delays the inevitable. As I stated in my previous post, the damage has already been done. Intervention or not, it's downhill from here.

[drgrimmy]

Well crates used to be 5k last season, so the price of the crates dropping I don't think is a really good marker of the economy. They were just super inflated in price due to the two hit combo of the weekends with mythic weapons in and increased rates of mythic from crates. The frenzy of opening crates is over for now and the price of the crates are just normalizing. Unfortunately, the damage has been done with the market being saturated with legendary gear from crates.

[CrimsonTider]

This thread was specifically about the economy. Yes, I know there are other problems that the game has, but I was specifically addressing the economic issues here. But yes I agree with much of what you say.

I know a lot of the ranting here is coming from players who are young and have no economic knowledge outside of just thinking about it. I've taken many courses in economics when I was in college and have a good friend who is a wall street investment banker, so I do understand the macro economic issues here. The solution to fix the economy is to get it "going" -- meaning to get people buying and selling items again.

1. Without farmers (or in RL manufacturers/farmers/producers), there is no product to buy or sell.

2. Pretty sure most of the people posting in this thread are far from "young."

3. Bringing about your qualifications as an "Economist" may actually hurt your argument more than anything. Many of the worlds economic issues are caused by economists. Sometimes solutions are very simple. In this case, you have many individuals stating they hate farming because of the time needed in game. When a game becomes a chore, interest in the game is lost. This causes a decline in player numbers and thus, a decline in items available to sell/merch. Also, when your "big spenders" begin to exit, less crates are going to be opened and less trading will occur. Many people rely on the "big spenders" to buy those crates and open them and when they aren't around, items begin to disappear.

We sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

[Energizeric]

1. Without farmers (or in RL manufacturers/farmers/producers), there is no product to buy or sell.

2. Pretty sure most of the people posting in this thread are far from "young."

3. Bringing about your qualifications as an "Economist" may actually hurt your argument more than anything. Many of the worlds economic issues are caused by economists. Sometimes solutions are very simple. In this case, you have many individuals stating they hate farming because of the time needed in game. When a game becomes a chore, interest in the game is lost. This causes a decline in player numbers and thus, a decline in items available to sell/merch. Also, when your "big spenders" begin to exit, less crates are going to be opened and less trading will occur. Many people rely on the "big spenders" to buy those crates and open them and when they aren't around, items begin to disappear.

We sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

Here's the thing.... there is absolutely no shortage of items for me to merch. In fact, there is a huge abundance of items currently for sale. Items that in the past would have only had 1 or 2 for sale in the auction at any one time in some cases have a dozen or more for sale currently. Problem is nobody is buying them. Nobody is buying cheap or expensive items. Nobody is buying anything much at all.

The problem is not a shortage of items. If it were, then yes a good fix would be to make sure more players are farming. But the problem is the exact opposite... there are too many items currently for sale. And lowering the price does not even help. A couple days ago I purchased a Borean Gun (a pretty good sorcerer gun) for less than 10k (I thought this was a good deal). I looked in the auction and there were 3 of them listed there between 28k and 50k. So I listed mine for 14k (50% of the lowest price). And the listing expired without a sale. A month ago this item would have sold within 15 minutes. Now a full day goes by and nobody is buying.

I'm not sure what the fix is, but it has very little to do with farming. The "fix" would be to get people to start buying the items that are already for sale. The fix is certainly not to get players to go out and find even more items to sell. We need more buying, not more selling.

Maybe STS needs to lower drop rates in general (not pink drop rates, just drop rates in general meaning fewer items drop), and increase gold drops (when you open a chest or destroy a barrel). More gold and less items will mean more buying and less selling which maybe will even things out.

[falmear]

Answer:

The only "fix" to these problems would be the following:

1) STS must step in and buy up all the excess crate pinks in the auction (just as the Federal Reserve bought up the crap mortgages when our economy was on the verge of collapse 5 years ago). Let STS make a toon, give that toon a few million gold, and let them buy up every crate pink in the auction that is priced below what they decide should be the floor for these items. And continue to do that for a week or two until the prices of these items rebound to what they should be.

2) Stop giving a legendary pink item in every crate. Let the crates have a chance for a pink -- maybe 1 in 10. Because right now it doesn't even matter that you get a pink in each crate if they are worth only 500 gold each. Nobody cares and nobody is opening crates to get these cheap crappy pinks. Players are only happy when they get mythic or arcane. So at least if the pinks were worth what a pink should be worth, players would be happy when they get one.

Once these crate pinks go back up in price, the elite pinks will become a worthy alternative again and players will start buying those again, and then the "elite" players will be able to sell the items they farm and they too will now have extra cash to spend on mythics and the whole economy will start moving again, which is what I think we all want. I think this would even result in players opening more crates, not less. Because if you knew opening a crate was more than an "all or nothing" chance, maybe you would be more likely to open one.

1) You're asking STS to prop up the economy so sellers make a profit? What happens when STS stops propping up the economy, this isn't the real world. We'd be back in the same place. What difference if STS buys up these crap pinks, they are only 500 gold or even less in most cases. What will this do for anyone who spent 15 plat + cost of the crate if they get 500 gold?

2) What difference if its a crappy pink or an epic. Its the same thing. So if they take out crap pinks, its till the same rate of getting a good pink. You substitute one crap item for another. You're asking for the drop rate to be increased because its probably not even 1 in 10. So this is contradictory to what you are even saying.

3) People aren't buying because its near the end of the season. People already have equipment and don't need anything else. The problem is demand and it probably means its taking people longer to get to level 30/31 then it did for people to get to 16/21/26. So new people arent getting to the level cap as fast. And those who have gotten to 30/31 have already bought their stuff. If you want to prop up the economy make it easier people to gain levels faster. The guild I am in has over 4000 members, and right now there are 28 members online, and of those people online only 4 of us are level 31. And I am sure next season the problem will get worse because it will take new people even longer to get to the next level cap and so on. You should ask STS how many new sign ups they get every day. Because these people are your new buyers. And if people struggle to get to level 31 and never make it. Then you'll never be able to sell your stuff to them. I don't agree with any of your suggestions.

[Energizeric]

1) You're asking STS to prop up the economy so sellers make a profit? What happens when STS stops propping up the economy, this isn't the real world. We'd be back in the same place. What difference if STS buys up these crap pinks, they are only 500 gold or even less in most cases. What will this do for anyone who spent 15 plat + cost of the crate if they get 500 gold?

2) What difference if its a crappy pink or an epic. Its the same thing. So if they take out crap pinks, its till the same rate of getting a good pink. You substitute one crap item for another. You're asking for the drop rate to be increased because its probably not even 1 in 10. So this is contradictory to what you are even saying.

3) People aren't buying because its near the end of the season. People already have equipment and don't need anything else. The problem is demand and it probably means its taking people longer to get to level 30/31 then it did for people to get to 16/21/26. So new people arent getting to the level cap as fast. And those who have gotten to 30/31 have already bought their stuff. If you want to prop up the economy make it easier people to gain levels faster. The guild I am in has over 4000 members, and right now there are 28 members online, and of those people online only 4 of us are level 31. And I am sure next season the problem will get worse because it will take new people even longer to get to the next level cap and so on. You should ask STS how many new sign ups they get every day. Because these people are your new buyers. And if people struggle to get to level 31 and never make it. Then you'll never be able to sell your stuff to them. I don't agree with any of your suggestions.

1) they would not only buy up these pinks, they would make sure the drop rate from crates is lowered, so they don't repopulate.

2) there currently are no "good" pinks which come from the crates. They are all worthless crap (in terms of value, not stats). My solution would make it so that they would regain their value and you would have a chance at a decent pink.

3) You don't have to reach cap. All the legendary items that come in level 31 also come in level 30 and nobody is buying the level 30 items either. Why buy items for 50k when you can get cheap crate pinks for 500 gold. As long as the crate pinks are so cheap and have decent stats, this economy will be ruined. It doesn't matter what else happens.

Also, this was never an issue in Pocket Legends at Level 66/71/76 cap where you needed 100k XP to cap. Players kept buying end game pink gear right up until the next expansion. Even then when the price dropped because an abundance of old gear being sold, the items were easy to sell for the lowered price. The reason is these items were still relatively rare. There were not so many of them that nobody needed them. They were scarce enough so that there were still players who needed them.

[Lady_Pebbles]

It has everything to do with farming when players don't get enough gold during runs and quests to be able to continue to farm throughout the day. IF they even have the time to do some or even all of the quests plus some runs daily. Plus, elite runs in PUGs are extremely lacking in many areas (mentioned in this thread), the drop rate without elixirs is (as I said before) horrible, hell appauling even! The costs for pet feeds, pots, and listing feeds in the ah/cs are overwhelmingly greater than the amount of gold being looted in runs.

Along with (or instead of) them adding gold to the crates they should have added gold to the Copper, Rare, Golden and Elite chests that actually scaled with the drops. Make end game elite pinks and eggs actually drop without elixirs like they used to. No, not like Wrath & Snag (when they were dropping like water), but with some (keyword some not a freaken chore) effort they actually drop. Players can farm for hours without elixirs and not get a single pink drop yet with a luck elixir they get drops on the first few tries. STILL yet, they expect the non-plat users to pay a lot of gold for their drops when the runs those non-plat players run in, do not reward them with ANYTHING worth selling and if they do get a chest to drop... they don't get enough gold to list item(s) in the ah/cs because they have to feed pets and pot up for the next runs.

Dejavu... I find myself pretty much repeating what we've all been saying LOL.

[Energizeric]

Yes, the more we discuss this, the more I think the solution is 2 parts:

1) Increase the supply of gold in the game by increasing gold drops from chests (both the kind in dungeons, and the chests that drop from bosses), barrels, crates and daily quests.

2) Decrease the supply of crate pinks so that pinks that drop from bosses or elite chests will actually be worth something decent.

[Rogueulator]

LOL. You guys still don't get it.

The majority of the elite farming is done by elite/mythic players. These players are not the ones buying the drops from the elite dungeons, they can farm any dungeon and only need to buy items which are not possible or have too little chance to get from farming. So who is the majority buying these items in CS? It is the low to mid range talent players who cannot farm their own items. Where do they get their gold? Anyway they can get it, but it is really difficult for them in elite dungeons.

We will use Elite Oltgar as an example since it is probably the only Nordr elite you can pug these days. While an elite group can get 5 rerolls on one reroll elixer, the noob group can only get 2 or 3 if they are lucky and people don't leave mid run. That's if they even spend plats to reroll. A lot of these players don't even have plats for a respec. Yes, it's sad, but that's the majority, the players who buy the items in CS. Where can they turn for income when most of their sources have been crippled. Chests across the board and crates are decreasing in price. Has farming gotten any easier for them? No. Now they have to farm three times as much to make what they used to. So we have the same elite farmers doing their thing (farming items and chests), but the demand has dropped because there is not enough money. There is the paradox.

[Rare]

Yes, the more we discuss this, the more I think the solution is 2 parts:

1) Increase the supply of gold in the game by increasing gold drops from chests (both the kind in dungeons, and the chests that drop from bosses), barrels, crates and daily quests.

2) Decrease the supply of crate pinks so that pinks that drop from bosses or elite chests will actually be worth something decent.

If i may be honest, i don't agree that either of these will help anything. Fact of the matter is, the game isn't fun to actually play. I know some like to think it's all about amassing a fortune. It is not. If the game isn't fun, people stop playing. I think it's pretty easy to deduce how this will impact an economy.

Back to the stimulus you mentioned. Stimulation only works if people spend the money. And if people aren't playing, well, they aren't spending. There have to be attainable goals in game. For most of us, the goal is to play, farm, enjoy. Not sit in a town and buy and sell things.

I don't see how adding more gold will help. Fix the real problem here. When the dust settles, this is a game. Playing it has to be fun, interesting. Right now it isn't. Increasing demand for gear that is already expensive for most and removing cheaper quality gear... I don't see the benefit for normal players. As an economist one should understand how inflation works. When the value of money goes down, the cost of living goes up.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Rare]

I dont know why it reposted.

[ShadowGunX]

LoL.
this is jst LOL

[Energizeric]

LOL. You guys still don't get it.

The majority of the elite farming is done by elite/mythic players. These players are not the ones buying the drops from the elite dungeons, they can farm any dungeon and only need to buy items which are not possible or have too little chance to get from farming. So who is the majority buying these items in CS? It is the low to mid range talent players who cannot farm their own items. Where do they get their gold? Anyway they can get it, but it is really difficult for them in elite dungeons.

We will use Elite Oltgar as an example since it is probably the only Nordr elite you can pug these days. While an elite group can get 5 rerolls on one reroll elixer, the noob group can only get 2 or 3 if they are lucky and people don't leave mid run. That's if they even spend plats to reroll. A lot of these players don't even have plats for a respec. Yes, it's sad, but that's the majority, the players who buy the items in CS. Where can they turn for income when most of their sources have been crippled. Chests across the board and crates are decreasing in price. Has farming gotten any easier for them? No. Now they have to farm three times as much to make what they used to. So we have the same elite farmers doing their thing (farming items and chests), but the demand has dropped because there is not enough money. There is the paradox.

Yes, the solution is to increase gold drops and gold from quests. Then these mid range players will have more gold. For example, in Pocket Legends you can farm the dungeons in AO3 and get over 1k gold for a single run that takes less than 5 minutes. Spend an hour there and you'll have 10k. I'm not talking about 10k worth of items that you then hope you can sell. I'm talking about 10k of actual gold. That is what we need here.

[TheStoic]

Bottomline: There's no fun at all when you are farming now, unless you're a mythic player. The economic issue address only the rich players, their items arent bought, now its an issue. Where do the average players comes in? Oh yeah, quit or buy some plat and open crates, hoping to become instant millionaire.

Enough with the economics, simply put, the element of fun is missing.

[Energizeric]

Fact of the matter is, the game isn't fun to actually play.

Yes, if you don't enjoy playing the game, no amount of small tinkering with the economy is going to help that. I suggest you find a game you enjoy. :)

[Energizeric]

Bottomline: There's no fun at all when you are farming now, unless you're a mythic player. The economic issue address only the rich players, their items arent bought, now its an issue. Where do the average players comes in? Oh yeah, quit or buy some plat and open crates, hoping to become instant millionaire.

Enough with the economics, simply put, the element of fun is missing.

It's no fun farming for anyone. I'm a mythic player and I don't ever farm. There's no way to earn any money by farming even for a mythic player. I don't see why the gear that you have on your back would make it more or less fun. I still die constantly if I try to do elite farming, and the rewards are not there to make it worthwhile.

I think you would have more fun if the items you got as drops were actually worth a nice amount of gold. Maybe then you could become a mythic player. ;)

You know, I never got any mythic items from opening crates or from buying gold for plat. I farmed, did some merching, saved my money, and bought the mythic items. In the current economy that is pretty much impossible to do.

[drgrimmy]

Yes, the solution is to increase gold drops and gold from quests. Then these mid range players will have more gold. For example, in Pocket Legends you can farm the dungeons in AO3 and get over 1k gold for a single run that takes less than 5 minutes. Spend an hour there and you'll have 10k. I'm not talking about 10k worth of items that you then hope you can sell. I'm talking about 10k of actual gold. That is what we need here.

This is the problem with this game, everything in this game is a gold sink/drain. Pots, over 700 gold every 15 min to feed your stupid pet, auction house fees. The list goes on. I don't really see how there can possibly be any net influx of gold into the game without plat to gold conversion or the small amount of gold found in crates. 7 gold for liquidating junk greens and purples, the occasional one or two gold prices from killing an enemy, the goldmine of 10-20 gold dropped from bosses and some chests, and don't forget the 100 or 200 gold reward from quests. There is no way this can even begin to compensate for just feeding your pet, lmao. I think this is the crux of the problem. There is not enough new gold being generated in the game.

In seasons one and two, there were not crates yet. There were not expensive mythic pets or luck amulets. There was really not much to spend plat on other than plat to gold conversion. Also back then some of the top gear cost only a couple hundred thousand gold. It seemed pretty reasonable to spend a couple hundred plat to get the gold for top gear. I think as a result plat to gold conversion really fueled the economy and infused gold into the economy.

Fast forward to season two with the introduction of crates. There was now something else to spend plat on and it was really attractive. Not only was there the addictive gambling side of it, but there was also the possibility of making millions of gold by just opening a few crates. Plus by season three top gear started to cost millions of gold. So now why would anyone waste a few hundred plat to get a few hundred measly gold pieces when they could open 20-30 crates and become an instant multimillionaire? The plat to gold conversion no longer seemed like a good deal and the attraction of the crates was too strong. This likely killed plat to gold conversion use and crippled the influx of new gold into the game.

So fast forward to the current state of things. There is a limited amount of gold in the game due to poor gold generation that only a few really successful players have strategically monopolized. They have no need to buy any more gear as they have all they need, unless they see a really good deal that they think they can make gold on merching. The majority of other players have very little gold and no good way to make gold. As a result, people stop buying items, which now sit in the auction house, and prices plummet. Add a few other things into the mix, such as the elite mines and the arena which rains noble gear, and prices plummet even further. As energizeric mentioned, this decline seems much more severe that that I have seen towards the end of previous seasons either here in al or in pl. Sure prices tend to plummet a few days before a new expansion, but the new expansion has not even been announced yet. I just hope that this is not the end of this game, but in am very worried....

[Valsacar]

So, here's my take.

1. Gold needs to drop from chests.
2. Gold from mobs needs to increase, I get the say 3 gold from a lvl 31 mob that I did from a lvl 1...
3. Item stats need to be fixed. Elite green lvl 31 should be at least a little better than Elite pink lvl 26 (previous cap). Purple a little better, pink a little better than that. Right now, it's jump to the next pink or keep old crap because it's better than anything new.
4. Regular pinks should be worth something, right now it's elite pink or mythic. If you fix the stat spread then even regular pinks could be considered useful (maybe around what elite purple is).

[Chaim Nail]

Even though I'm a lvl31 warrior with the best legendary items available, which I've spend probably nearly 2 million gold on, I rarely visit Nordr (let alone the any of the elite levels) because to me the one-hit-kills by bosses and the darn ice patches frustrate the hell out of me, on top of having to drink gallons of potions, then when I have managed to defeat a top level boss it seems a bit of an insult to be rewarded with an item that can't be sold in the market because nobody wants it and is only worth a fiew pieces of gold when liquidating it.

I get most of my gold through solo farming the early levels with the Leprechaun Amulet for rerolls (crates, chests, eggs) and doing the dailies for the (tiny amount of) gold and the occasional egg to sell - I'm not making that much really and some days I wonder why the hell I'm playing it because I can't see myself being able to afford the millions of gold required to buy mythic or arcane weapons/armour.

[Energizeric]

I think most of us agree here on some of the issues that plague the game. Let's wait for a developer to respond to this thread. I really would like to know if they have any plans to try to fix any of these problems.

[DebbieMoon]

Im one of those non-plat users that is gravely affected by this crisis. We were forced to do run elite RK or km3 because we think malison & nexus were only good to sell nowadays but thats not the sad part. Because of the Leprechaun amulet, players decided to hunt them instead buying the egg. So in the end we settled for the best source of income--and that is crates, in which this where all starts the turmoil. No wonder the economy is messed.

All i can say increase the gold drop rate.

[Say go]

Hmm...

Potions are a problem, I find it hard to find a good team to run with, so I often run alone.
I abandoned my sorcerer today and started a warrior, at Level 15 now.
If I'm solo, I can use 100 potions in a level, no problem, mostly at the boss.

Gear is cheap, for 25 plat I can buy 25k gold, I can kit out any class, and almost any level in good legendary gear for that, and still have some left over.

Auction fees are insane, to list an item for 75k today, it cost me 3800 gold.
That's charged before it sells, not once somebody has bought it. So with nobody buying higher priced items at the moment (mainly due to them only being slightly better than the cheaper ones) I can end up spending 12k in relist fees just to sell it.


The auction house is flooded with copper, silver & gold chests, for cheap.
Why ? Because they contain 3 useless items that aren't even worth opening, they just clog up your inventory.
Just have one item per chest, I'm sick of opening them and deleting all the crap.

Feeding a pet with gold ? Why ? Why can't we get some kind of food drops from chests & barrels in levels, instead of these junk greens and whites that we can sell for 7 gold each.

Another thing is, I'm sick of people who can't speak any English, it's too hard to communicate when you're trying to establish a role in a level or a trade. Why is there only one server ?

Most of this has been mentioned I know, but there are some serious things that need to be addressed if you want this game to be as successful at getting people to spend money in as Order & Chaos or Clash of Clans.
You know Clash of Clans is making 1.3 million USD per day, and that's just the developers cut.

You need to look after your serious players, the people who spend money.
I've spent what I consider to be a decent wad of cash on this game, but I'm getting to the point now where I can't be bothered paying if devs can't be bothered listening.

People like Energizeric who posted, have been playing pocket legends for years, and now Arcane.
You can bet they've spent a ton of money, and they don't get listened to.
I've seen so many good posts by Energizeric with brilliant solutions to issues, and do they ever get implemented ? Like hell they do.

[Obi]

I really hope that some STS developers would read that thread and have internal discussion about th problem.. I just suggest that they could increase items liquidation price with th following formula: (current price + lowest cs fee) * item level * item rarity level
Farming gold would be an option and more people would have fun from the drops again..

[Ebezaanec]

With the current situation as it is right now, the incentives for playing are very scarce. Playing difficult elite maps for lousy drops, merching (which right now is just as hard), and just pvping are really the main choices. The game is designed to have fun gameplay, not to have them be tedious and strenuous. Hopefully these issued will be resolved over the course of the next seasons.

[Rare]

Yes, if you don't enjoy playing the game, no amount of small tinkering with the economy is going to help that. I suggest you find a game you enjoy. :)

And I'll suggest the same to you :)

Unfortunately, I personally have invested a lot of money into this game, so I'll continue to suggest fixing the actual problems we are facing.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Energizeric]

With the current situation as it is right now, the incentives for playing are very scarce. Playing difficult elite maps for lousy drops, merching (which right now is just as hard), and just pvping are really the main choices. The game is designed to have fun gameplay, not to have them be tedious and strenuous. Hopefully these issued will be resolved over the course of the next seasons.

Yes, myself I've been spending most of my time in PvP/CTF. In the past (and in PL) I always enjoyed PvE far more than PvP, and I had tons of fun merching. But lately I rarely do either of those anymore because there is no benefit and just time wasted.

[Lady_Pebbles]

This game is like any mmo. The fun is in the gameplay experience players look for; PvPers farm for their PvP gear & PvP. Merchs farm for stuff to merch. Hoarders/Collectors hoard items they want for their collections. Casual players play from time-to-time, try to farm & PvP when they can.

Farming is the only way to make any type of game currency on any game for those who can't afford to dish out some real money. Farming in AL costs more than it rewards. Its the root of all these problems in the AL economy. When you make farming unrewarding it becomes boring. THATS when every other aspect of the game suffers. It causes a domino effect.

[SkullCrusher]

After reading all these responses and the whole thread about 3 times, I've decided to quit. No, I'm not joking at all, I already spent all my platinum ( 400 ) on opening crates just for the fun of it, Heck, I HATE gambling and rarely ever do it. Only left 100k on my character now with no gear at all ( just in case. ) I don't know if I should quit gaming in general or look for new mmorpg games to play. I might even start playing Pocket Legends. ( It always was my favorite. ) And if you guys can't tell, this is a problem for the players, but the exact OPPOSITE for STS. They're making so much money no way because of AL being so plat based now there is now they will respond to us, and if they do...It will be just to tell us another lousy excuse like they need to pay for their families. Is this a joke??? I'm sure they have millions and millions of dollars, how could they not even be able to pay for their families. This thread will probably be locked soon but what can we do about it? STS couldn't be anymore happier with all the money they're making and don't give a rat's A** about us players. Hopefully all the big-time platinum spenders will stop buying platinum and STS will notice the players want a game they could relax and have fun on. Hopefully I'll see you all later but for now, Adios amigos. ( Goodbye my friends. )
-Skull's final post on the AL forums.

[Origin]

I like Rogueulator's points. I'm writing this off the top of my head so feel free to correct me or add anything -

There are some game mechanics that I assume to be the work of devs trying to balance out the situation :

1) Elite farming : It seems the more dmg you deal to bosses compared to others in the party, the less likely u r to get eggs/high value chests. There's a certain ratio, I won't say what - u can get a feel of it. For eg, Put one full mythic in a party with part-mythics or nice legendaries and see who score high value pinks every other run, and how often. Like firesquids, elite golds and mali/kettles. If True is the full beast in the party she can farm 2 hours and get an elite copper at best while everyone else gets the good stuff. The only time she's gotten anything good during these type of runs was when I had to take my hands off the keys for work mid-boss, lol. This is also the secret to "good luck with drops" for my mage.. scaling back the damage. Totally no incentive to upgrade his equip. When I wanna help my friends out I jump on my rogue, when I wanna farm I jump on my mage coz I don't like nerfing True (that, or True has to run with the arcanes and mythic groups). But as you can imagine u can't expect players to help out all the time. It's nice to think about but in reality most people will just want something for themselves.

2) Crates : Introduction of "chance" to get gold/plat per crate. The idea of a guaranteed min legendary per crate seems nice, everyone gets it whether you are "rich" or "poor".

Here are the problems I see with these 2 things :

1) Incentive for mythic/arcane players to hang out only with each other, and no real incentive for mid-geared players to upgrade. It also puts them at a clear social disadvantage - almost like they'd have to beg a mythic to join them just so they get any real mileage out of farming. So the "elite" will get more "elite", and soon u will have an underclass that's treated like a leper colony.

2) Useful items priced too high or too low - again, no incentive for mid-geared players to upgrade. Give u an example. Mages. We all know what happened to the noble gear. What about weps? Well after the 3-500k price bracket, comes the 1 mill price bracket. Fair 'nuff. But the next bracket is in the 8-10m range and its stats alpha-destroys. Gets worse with the warrior and rogue. Few, if anything, falls in mid-range. That's why the economy is going to the dogs imho, players are falling through that wide gaping canyon and there is no bridge. Like devs kinda jumped to mythics and arcanes straightaway. It was a good idea but now there's not enough gold to go around for this reason. The prices tell u how the gold circulates, and whose hands it ends up in. And just like in RL, the gold remains there due to greed for power over others.

Translation : Fast-increasing rich and poor divide. Inflation of prices. Hoarding. Stuff not selling. Difficulty for merches - items either too high end or too low end. "Vintage" market frozen - players with the gold are buying them up now and u know what that means for the future....

So if anything, I'd advise devs to think about making a good bridge. Pumping gold back into the economy is not a solution, it's a stall for time. The over-reliance on crates seems unlikely to change, sts I do see u've made some nice tweaks and took up some suggestions (albeit a bit clumsily), thank you, but again I'd caution u not to opt for short-term profit over long-term gains.. even though it looks good on paper right now. I've a few solutions in mind and many players probably do too but y'know, I think our patronage and feedback as players should be enough.. let's just leave it at this and hope those who get paid to do the job connects with us here on the ground ;-)

Allow me to move away from topic for a mo to say....

ps. To my peers who can afford the mythics and arcanes - "The things you own end up owning you." The recession may make you feel like you gotta cling to whatever gold/items/rich friends you have, and do more for yourself and less for others, but imho that's really what is ruining the fun. Many of u tell me u're bored. But you tend to keep to yourselves a lot, stay in a bubble, and don't wanna associate with others who are less well off than u / much newer to the game.. Newbies are different from noobs. Personally I'm having way more fun mingling outside of the "elite" group and helping out. And there r some amazing players who remain twinks coz endgame looks like a mess (it is). One day, any of these people I mentioned can be "elite" too - that means more friends! ik u miss top players who have left the game, but, if I may be so bold as to suggest this, try to focus on what u can gain rather than what u have lost. When we can find it in ourselves to cross (self-imposed) social boundaries, things can remain very fluid, interesting. Like water ("be like water my friend" - I love how the guy says it ^_^) And the "recession" doesn't have to be so painful for everyone - hell it doesn't have to hurt. Very liberating, come try it! ;) U have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Origin]

After reading all these responses and the whole thread about 3 times, I've decided to quit. No, I'm not joking at all, I already spent all my platinum ( 400 ) on opening crates just for the fun of it, Heck, I HATE gambling and rarely ever do it. Only left 100k on my character now with no gear at all ( just in case. ) I don't know if I should quit gaming in general or look for new mmorpg games to play. I might even start playing Pocket Legends. ( It always was my favorite. ) And if you guys can't tell, this is a problem for the players, but the exact OPPOSITE for STS. They're making so much money no way because of AL being so plat based now there is now they will respond to us, and if they do...It will be just to tell us another lousy excuse like they need to pay for their families. Is this a joke??? I'm sure they have millions and millions of dollars, how could they not even be able to pay for their families. This thread will probably be locked soon but what can we do about it? STS couldn't be anymore happier with all the money they're making and don't give a rat's A** about us players. Hopefully all the big-time platinum spenders will stop buying platinum and STS will notice the players want a game they could relax and have fun on. Hopefully I'll see you all later but for now, Adios amigos. ( Goodbye my friends. )
-Skull's final post on the AL forums.

Hey buddy, sorry to hear but at the same time am happy for ya that u can let the game go :-) Like many others I miss the casual aspect. Look forward to joining u soon, when my work here is done! ^_^v

[ShadowGunX]

Lol. like these responds wont shake STS. ppl r still buying plats thats y sts r not caring.
Btw instead of making futile suggestion or arguing here better play PL or SL. or find other MMORPG.
u all r wasting time here. rofl.
i quit 2months ago lol. nd currently on SL.

[ShadowGunX]

After reading all these responses and the whole thread about 3 times, I've decided to quit. No, I'm not joking at all, I already spent all my platinum ( 400 ) on opening crates just for the fun of it, Heck, I HATE gambling and rarely ever do it. Only left 100k on my character now with no gear at all ( just in case. ) I don't know if I should quit gaming in general or look for new mmorpg games to play. I might even start playing Pocket Legends. ( It always was my favorite. ) And if you guys can't tell, this is a problem for the players, but the exact OPPOSITE for STS. They're making so much money no way because of AL being so plat based now there is now they will respond to us, and if they do...It will be just to tell us another lousy excuse like they need to pay for their families. Is this a jokesam??? I'm sure they have millions and millions of dollars, how could they not even be able to pay for their families. This thread will probably be locked soon but what can we do about it? STS couldn't be anymore happier with all the money they're making and don't give a rat's A** about us players. Hopefully all the big-time platinum spenders will stop buying platinum and STS will notice the players want a game they could relax and have fun on. Hopefully I'll see you all later but for now, Adios amigos. ( Goodbye my friends. )
-Skull's final post on the AL forums.

same for me bro. after grinding for days i got nothing any valuable which frustrated me. bt i realised that game is only for fun nd to hav relax bt this game gav me frustration only. so i quit long ago. Hasta la Vista amigo.
Buena Suerte :-)

[wowdah]

i agree mostly with lady and ener, and aedenos on the party matter. The prime issue is that farming costs more than it rewards if u look at it in the long run.

[Energizeric]

BTW, I keep hearing people divide players into "mythic" and "non-mythic". But there are indeed lots of in betweens as well. For example, some players have one or two mythic items, but that's it. For some reason everyone assumes that players who have mythic items must spend thousands of plat every week and get as many mythic items as they want. While there are a few players who do this, the majority of players who have mythic items did not loot them, but instead purchased them with gold that they farmed for.

In seasons 1-3, there were plenty of ways to farm and make lots of gold. During this period the economy was moving quite well, so merching was also a good way to make money.

For myself, I managed to make all of my money from merching and farming, and I spent it all on a mythic helm, armor & gun, and hammerjaw egg. I kept saving and was able to buy one of these items every month. The last one I bought was Hammerjaw about a month ago. But since then, because of the problems discussed in this thread, I've not been able to save up any more money to get the next item on my list which was the mythic ring. I also don't have a mythic amulet, and it seems as though there is no way for me to save up enough money to get either of those items before the next expansion as there is no way for me to really make money. A month ago I was able to make 100-200k per day merching. Now I am lucky if I can make 10k per day merching. At that rate it would take me 3-4 months to save up enough for a mythic ring. And as for farming, that seems useless all together. I've tried farming, and other than farming jarl for crates, there doesn't seem to be any other farming that is worth my time.

[Haligali]

Bring back jarl please.

[xcainnblecterx]

Free bump. Don't want to see this thread disappear as I agree with a lot of what here and think Deva need to hear it. @shadow gun, the reason we are not quitting or moving to another mmo is because we don't want to see a good game (let alone a good company) go to ruins because sts is listening a bit less. I member in pl if someone had a good idea the Devs would take it into advice and about 50% of the time if it was good it went into the game. Here we have been giving feed back, making suggestions, and think expressing our concerns to no avail. Me as a average long time player, hates to see this happening and would prefer to help get sts back on track before abandoning it

[Bullox]

First of all, STS have to learn to life with criticism, it's not the right way to delete all critique Posts!

And yes, i agree with a lot, i can read here.

[GoodSyntax]

@Energizeric - I completely agree! This weekend, I worked hard on merching, and was just barely able to clear 100K. This is with me logging in to buy and sell pretty much all day over this weekend. Many of my listings expired without sale, which is weird, because I thought that I was grossly undercutting myself.

I used to be able to clear 50k a day easily with a quarter the effort. I'm not sure if the population is simply stagnating, but it seems that inventory turnover is slowing down significantly. This season, the most popular item for me has been Incandescent Blades, mostly because of the high turnover and low risk (albeit with relatively low margins) , but even these items seem to have died in popularity.

It seems that there are periods of high activity, such as when the Gladiator Arena was first introduced, but with all the Noble drops, what was initially an easy 20-40k in profit turned into 50k losses overnight. Frankly, while I like the idea of top end gear being readily available - I simply cannot justify how the best lv30 armor is going for mid 30's to 40k. A few short weeks ago, these were 200k. I bought two Noble Doublets of Will for 19k each, and resold them at 30k. Not much profit in a time where pricing is a race to the bottom.

At least some of the lv31 gear is holding some value. Either that, or people are hoarding them in hopes that prices will rise again.

I am going to continue merching, but not with the fervor of this weekend. The effort is not worth the proceeds. I hope that when the next cap comes out, our high volume spenders return and drive the economy back up.

[DVN718]

Being the casual non-plat player, it's impossible to make money anymore. I spend several hours a day farming, elites, and any map i might find an egg. It's all pointless for the measly what 50-60k (on a good day).. I may make every 2 days. It kind of pisses me off I spend all this time for what? Im at lvl 31, and theres no longer any reason to play the game. I can't make any money to get the better gear (mythic/Arcane), I can't sell of any decent gear I have to make more as no one is spending.. and it sucks. In order for me to to get any better gear.. I need to somehow amass 20-30 million.. So I'm going to farm for an average of 30-40k a day for 5-6 hours a day. for the next 500 days?

Sorry angry rant of the average player..

[illego]

All this talk about the supply/demand curve is silly. Yes, you have the demand but the supply is pretty infinite. The problem is that there is a sink for gold (pets feed/potions/CS) but there is no sink for gears. Unless someone quit and delete their legendary gears, everything ends up back in the economy. I have never deleted a single piece of equipment on any of my characters. They have all gone back into the economy. Why buy lower gear (green/blue/cheap legendaries) when you know eventually prices will drop when the market will get flooded with stuff from crates and players liquidizing their old stuff. With new legendaries coming in from crates/chest/arena and old stuff never going away, supply will keep increasing while demands will go down. Except for the few mythic/arcane items, and even demands for those are going down. The only people who can afford to buy at those prices are people who are selling them in the first place. Until gears are BIND ON USE which forces people to destroy some items, supply will always exceed demand.

[Energizeric]

STS deletes the thread if it is just a rant and complaint. You need to make suggestions which address the issue. Just complaining about it is not constructive. And in your suggestions, try to respect that STS has to make a profit on the game. So for example, suggesting that they just eliminate the locked crates is not constructive. Suggesting that they change the locked crates is a much better way to go about it. I've never had one of my threads deleted. :)

[jtst]

All this talk about the supply/demand curve is silly. Yes, you have the demand but the supply is pretty infinite. The problem is that there is a sink for gold (pets feed/potions/CS) but there is no sink for gears. Unless someone quit and delete their legendary gears, everything ends up back in the economy. I have never deleted a single piece of equipment on any of my characters. They have all gone back into the economy. Why buy lower gear (green/blue/cheap legendaries) when you know eventually prices will drop when the market will get flooded with stuff from crates and players liquidizing their old stuff. With new legendaries coming in from crates/chest/arena and old stuff never going away, supply will keep increasing while demands will go down. Except for the few mythic/arcane items, and even demands for those are going down. The only people who can afford to buy at those prices are people who are selling them in the first place. Until gears are BIND ON USE which forces people to destroy some items, supply will always exceed demand.

I agree with that. Items are keep coming and there is no end of them, but merchants are hoarding items and trying to keep prices on the same level these items were introduced. Hence less trades.
Economy in AL is FINE. The main issue is: you play game, you run maps, farm, but you don't gain anything. Top items should be farmable and not in crates/chests/hardly relying on loot reroll. Maps should be easier and take time and some strategy, and not annoy people with one hit-kill.
Time spent in game should be rewarded, if you work (farm) - you earn.
Flooding economy with gold will only encourage merchants, not middle class/casual AL player.

[Zuzeq]

Snap, I guess I don't have to share my thoughts... they're already here 10x over. I have to leave before I run out of thanks...

[Swede]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

[DVN718]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.. There are a lot of us that really enjoy playing the game but have been greatly disappointed recently in the failures within the in game economy.

[vholt]

and sorry it took so long to read this.

It was 4 pages of posts, with an essay in each one.

You don't have to be sorry d:

[Temarichan]

Since the Leprechaun amulet came into play, the price of locked crates really lowered a ton. Was it a good idea?? :/ now people who first play AL can't even survive without having more then 100k. No one is really buying locked crates anymore. This is terrible.

[wvhills]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

implementing PL's game joining system like aedenos suggested here..http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89261-The-Party-System would make it easier for us to pug. The only true fix for the economy problem is to do away with converting plat to gold and reducing the amount of gold sinks in game. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. The main benefit of having a pink in every chest is it makes good gear available really cheap. I have no mythics or arcanes (I run pvp and pve with bonechill and purple ring and amulet) but can still play the game well with a set that costs less than 100k. This is good because I am not going to spend time trying to farm gear because it's virtually impossible to get a good group together. The magic of farming we had in PL is totally absent in AL.

[razerfingers]

implementing PL's game joining system like aedenos suggested here..http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89261-The-Party-System would make it easier for us to pug. The only true fix for the economy problem is to do away with converting plat to gold and reducing the amount of gold sinks in game. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. The main benefit of having a pink in every chest is it makes good gear available really cheap. I have no mythics or arcanes (I run pvp and pve with bonechill and purple ring and amulet) but can still play the game well with a set that costs less than 100k. This is good because I am not going to spend time trying to farm gear because it's virtually impossible to get a good group together. The magic of farming we had in PL is totally absent in AL.

Agreed, the PUG system is lacking. I dont wanna sit in watchers tolb looking for a team if i wanna grind to 20 i want to be able to search for a almost full game and join. Its how i use my dailys in PL. This is what turns me away from it. When i do play for a little on an xp elixir from klaas i got a few eggs but hatched em cause so expensive to list in AH lol!


Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[Romifrity]

Being the casual non-plat player, it's impossible to make money anymore. I spend several hours a day farming, elites, and any map i might find an egg. It's all pointless for the measly what 50-60k (on a good day).. I may make every 2 days. It kind of pisses me off I spend all this time for what? Im at lvl 31, and theres no longer any reason to play the game. I can't make any money to get the better gear (mythic/Arcane), I can't sell of any decent gear I have to make more as no one is spending.. and it sucks. In order for me to to get any better gear.. I need to somehow amass 20-30 million.. So I'm going to farm for an average of 30-40k a day for 5-6 hours a day. for the next 500 days?

Sorry angry rant of the average player..

Yes bro

[Rare]

Since the Leprechaun amulet came into play, the price of locked crates really lowered a ton. Was it a good idea?? :/ now people who first play AL can't even survive without having more then 100k. No one is really buying locked crates anymore. This is terrible.

That really should say something about the state of farming

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[SkullCrusher]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

I highly doubt you guys will actually do something about this but if you do....I might come back to AL. :) Even though I spent away 400k gold and 500 platinum on stupid stuff since I was quitting forever anyways lol, but I would appreciate if something about this does happen.
-Skull's second last post lol ( it will make sense if you read my first post on this thread. )

[Ninjasmurf]

You are exactly right

[zweixii]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

Sounds promising, looking forward on the ideas you developers will bring.

[Kaytar]

I believe that farming on AL costs more than it's worth. I have just set aside Arcane Legends for now because I don't like the farming system at all. I understand STS likes trying somethings new, but sometimes new things aren't the best for the players. I don't like how you have to be a certain level to farm elite dungeons either. I do like the casual gameplay of Pocket Legends, Star Legends, and Dark Legends more.
I would also like to inform everyone that our good friend, Thren (Lady_Pebbles), has been banned for giving her very useful, constructive criticism. She made some good points in her post and I don't see why she was banned for giving her positive insight on the issue. You can reach Thren (Lady_Pebbles) in-game or you can get the app called "Line Messenger" and PM me your name on there and I'll give it to Thren (Lady_Pebbles). Thanks for reading :)

[Ninjasmurf]

The biggest problem is that that people with over a million don't buy anything but mythics so poor people (like me :) ) never get that much money from merching.

If the rich people in the economy share their wealth we will all increase prices in auction

[crazyangle03]

i agree with this one specific thing, the value of opening locked crates should be reduced to 75% (10 plats) and make it a random roll for all colors. in that sense the prices of pinks looted in game and from crates will start to increase overtime.. basically it will happen in the future as so many players like me got like 400 of them in stash waiting for the day this items will be valuable again.. well i hope so.. once this items are out and sold continuously the changes will start to take place little by little.

as for the pinks that will come out for the next cap and so so.. prices will be maintained and steady..

also.. running elite maps is ok regardless of how long it takes however as players say its not rewarding.. why:

1. Gold drop is pretty low to support your farming needs (potions..etc..)
2. Rare Drops only comes out when using a re-roll elixir (99%) and sometimes with elixir re-roll gives you greens and purples which makes it 70% getting Pink. since pink also rolls per class and category it gives you 40% chance to get the pink your looking for. (very good example is noble gears)
3. Getting a good party or fast party to run elites takes time when in fact this waiting time you already can earn the gold you need.

[vholt]

Maybe make gear obtainable through quests? Like, some certain daily quests give a random item, with low chance at pinks. But good pinks. Since it's daily quest, it's more controlled since you can't do it more than once. Crates should either give gold or mythic or plat. No other items, so it isnt ruining the prices. Here, people can get a chance of getting mythic (should be really low) or get maybe around 10k gold, so its like a plat to gold conversion, but your getting less gold at the chance of getting mythic, without ruining pink prices. And gear can come from farming quests instead of farming in general. Here people will be more motivated to do quests, which actually have an objective, and will be getting more money from doing them. This will bring in more gold into the economy, prices will be will go up true, but since quests give items, prices go down too and it balances out?

Just some ideas, don't hurt me >...<

[Energizeric]

Crates should either give gold or mythic or plat. No other items, so it isnt ruining the prices. Here, people can get a chance of getting mythic (should be really low) or get maybe around 10k gold, so its like a plat to gold conversion, but your getting less gold at the chance of getting mythic, without ruining pink prices.

I have to say this is a VERY GOOD idea. Let me expand on this a bit....

Imagine if each locked crate had 3 random items. Each of those 3 items had the following chances:

--90+% chance to get gold (maybe different amounts of gold, with a smaller amount like 1k being more common and a large amount being more rare, perhaps even a jackpot like 500k or 1m on rare occasion)

--3.33% chance of a pink item -- these would be the crate pinks or pet eggs like Orion (since there are 3 items per crate, this means 1 in 10 crates will give a pink item, yet it would be possible to get multiple pink items in a crate)

--very rare chance to get mythic (one-third of whatever the current percentage drop for mythic is -- remember there are 3 chances per crate, so if each chance is one-third of the current drop rate, then the chance of getting a mythic in a crate will be the same)

--arcane, same as above for mythic items.

I don't see the need to give plat rewards from crates. Players who open crates already have plat, and if they wanted plat they would just keep the plat they have and not open crates. They open the crates because they want to spend the plat for a chance at a good item (or maybe gold if there was a gold jackpot as I described above).

Lastly, there is no reason for purple items to come from crates. Nobody keeps these items, and they are just worthless. Just give gold instead.

[Limsi]

I have to say this is a VERY GOOD idea. Let me expand on this a bit....

Imagine if each locked crate had 3 random items. Each of those 3 items had the following chances:

--90+% chance to get gold (maybe different amounts of gold, with a smaller amount like 1k being more common and a large amount being more rare, perhaps even a jackpot like 500k or 1m on rare occasion)

--3.33% chance of a pink item -- these would be the crate pinks or pet eggs like Orion (since there are 3 items per crate, this means 1 in 10 crates will give a pink item, yet it would be possible to get multiple pink items in a crate)

--very rare chance to get mythic (one-third of whatever the current percentage drop for mythic is -- remember there are 3 chances per crate, so if each chance is one-third of the current drop rate, then the chance of getting a mythic in a crate will be the same)

--arcane, same as above for mythic items.

I don't see the need to give plat rewards from crates. Players who open crates already have plat, and if they wanted plat they would just keep the plat they have and not open crates. They open the crates because they want to spend the plat for a chance at a good item (or maybe gold if there was a gold jackpot as I described above).

Lastly, there is no reason for purple items to come from crates. Nobody keeps these items, and they are just worthless. Just give gold instead.

Agreed, more like of a lottery but without the expense of flooding the game with too much pinks. The only thing here is that the twinking gears.. I'm sure the twinks would have a take on this matter.

[Energizeric]

Agreed, more like of a lottery but without the expense of flooding the game with too much pinks. The only thing here is that the twinking gears.. I'm sure the twinks would have a take on this matter.

I don't know. You can still have those pinks come in twinking levels. They'll just be a little more rare. No big deal there. With 1 being in every 10 crates that are opened, they will still be plenty available. They just won't be so common that they sell for 500 gold. They will have decent prices like the pinks that come in chests.

[Wowsome]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I found it. Lots of interesting ideas in here and I will mull over our options and post some of my ideas here and see what you guys think.

Thanks for all the feedback and sorry it took so long to read this.

Looking forward to it!

[Alrisaia]

I'm loving this thread - keep it up everyone this is the future of this game.

[GoodSyntax]

Perhaps a good option would be to introduce and, more importantly, discontinue gear at a more frequent pace.

For instance, this seasons, top end Noble sets could be replaced with a Lord's set (which would be similar or even identical in stats, but have a different appearance). After a few weeks/months, follow up with another replacement set, maybe an Odin's set. This way, the economy keeps churning to keep up with the new introductions. Also, it would allow the older, discontinued sets to increase in value for collectors, like the Founder sets have.

Another possibility, along the same line of thinking, is to introduce top-end weapons, all with the same stats, but with different Procs. So, for instance, the Bonechill Bow of Potency, with it's additional damage proc, could be replaced by the Odin's Recurve of Doom, which has +5% Crit Proc.

I don't think that this would have any negative impact on the economy, nor on player inventories. Essentially, it would be similar to the Sealord vs Demonlord thing. The stats are identical between the two sets, and it is more a matter of appearance. You also get the added benefit of a diversity in appearance for your toons without having to sacrifice stats.

I think three top end set introductions per season would really help to stimulate the economy. STS could also really engage it's user base in the same way as the Design the Banner contest. I suppose that we can't design every element in game due to hardware/memory limitations, which is why STS reuses the same 3D mesh objects, but at least one user designed set per season would be fun.

Plus, this would give the hardcore farmers and collectors something to look forward to, and something to buy/sell/trade. There isn't much point to having 5 Noble Doublets of Will unless you know that it's value will increase as soon as it is discontinued - because the way it stands now, the pricing of these items are in free-fall, so you are losing money holding onto them.

[Swede]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

[SkullCrusher]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

OMG! You guys actually listened to players and did something about it?! Crazy! I'm soooo coming back to AL now. :) Can't wait to see wait the other surprise is, Thanks so much Swede, I'll never doubt you guys ever again! :)

[razerfingers]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

Oh nice, can you become dev for other games for a day too pl0x? It seems you like to reply and try and implement ideas mentioned lol xD

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[keikali]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

That is amazing. I am speechless. This is probably one of the BIGGEST changes that will overhaul the whole AL economy. Good move.

[Chaim Nail]

Hey does this mean the market price of crates is going to go up?

*looks at the 42 crates in his inventory with hope*

[wowdah]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.
Yes, Yes and YESSSSS.

Time to buy all the bonechill gear XD jk

[Wowsome]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

this is going to be interesting :)

[SkullCrusher]

Yes, Yes and YESSSSS.

Time to buy all the bonechill gear XD jk

I already did that lol.

[keikali]

Hey does this mean the market price of crates is going to go up?

*looks at the 42 crates in his inventory with hope*

I'll take those off your hands at 6K each!

[xcainnblecterx]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

You don't how good it is to hear that you guys(and girls) are listening to our feed back again. I'm only hoping that the changes this weekend are not only for crates and that surprise will be for drops all around. The crates is a good start but it doesn't really effect non plat users. As for volts post about dailes for items, I say no cause you still can't necessarily come out to farming cause you can only do it once a day for low chance. IMO I want gear to be farmible like in all sets games and not only elite. I really want to do away with these chests, I'm not sure about the rest of you but I'd be much happier being able to actually farm

[Taejo]

i agree mostly with lady and ener, and aedenos on the party matter. The prime issue is that farming costs more than it rewards if u look at it in the long run.

Very true. I've always said there needs to be more incentives to clearing "trash mobs" in elite dungeons. 20-30g drops, or unique legendary items/eggs that are only on the trash mobs' loot tables - think about the price of those goodies on the market! I think the fact that most elite maps you run, you clear some and run to the end is so silly (to phrase it politely). What's the point of having a full elite map? Every dungeon may as well be like Mines of Nordia in theory.

Also, why do potions only drop when you have less than 25 (I think it is) left? They should always drop.

BTW thank you for starting this thread, Energizeric!

[Pandamoni]

Any chance the join game system will be looked at as well?

[vholt]

Also, why do potions only drop when you have less than 25 (I think it is) left? They should always drop.


I think we get enough pots from the daily chests, and besides i'd rather have more gold drop over potions, you can just buy potions then

[thehopeless]

@taejo. I think youre talking bout pl. I've seen potions drop in al when I've had 200+ just rarer. Personally on pl tho the potions is fine never have to buy any even with 25/25. As vholt said I'd rather have higher gold drops then just a higher pot drop

[Taejo]

I think we get enough pots from the daily chests, and besides i'd rather have more gold drop over potions, you can just buy potions then

Yes, I agree. Was just adding thoughts to the discussion :) I guess I figured on a small scale, the less gold we give the STS server for potions, the more that can be spent on the economy. Every penny adds up :)

[drgrimmy]

@taejo. I think youre talking bout pl. I've seen potions drop in al when I've had 200+ just rarer. Personally on pl tho the potions is fine never have to buy any even with 25/25. As vholt said I'd rather have higher gold drops then just a higher pot drop

I wish we could farm for pots here in all too. In pl you could stash your pots so you had zero, then do a level, get 25 health and mana pots, stash your pots again and repeat. In al pots rarely drop and you can't stash or sell them. I guess they just wanted pots to be a gold sink in al.... :(

[Kaytar]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later. What about gold drops on maps?

[wvhills]

Any chance the join game system will be looked at as well?

This is being ignored for some reason.


I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

The problem we are having isn't in the incentive to farm. It's in the difficulty in obtaining good parties to farm. You are making changes to the incentive and ignoring the root cause. Like many of us have been saying for months- the way we join games in AL (and the party system) is not effective. As many of us have said, we log in, try to find a game, after 20 minutes we get frustrated and log out. Implementing PL's game joining system would result in making it easier to farm which would lead to more people playing and more people needing and buying equips. Also, it's a lot easier to make friends in PL. I used to host a game with one or two other friends and people we didn't know would join. We could then do a few runs together. If we like the new player we could become friends, if not we could boot them and find another. I made a TON of friends this way. We can't do that in AL. We form a party of two and no one else can join. We can spend 10 min spamming party invites but then if the person doesnt' work out we have to stop the game (in elite runs no one else can join after the timer has started) and go back and start over.

Wait and see, making a change in what's inside the crates will result in people playing for a few weeks but will drop off again because the root problem still remains. You've tried 2 different versions of the boss brawls to get people to farm and the same thing has happened- people play for a few days then lose interest. It's not because of the content, the content is great, it's just way to hard to get a group together.

Please, please, please, go into the game on your secret alts and just try to find an elite farming run. It's really frustrating.

[Swede]

We're not going back to the PL Host/Join system in AL, so there's no point in bringing that up over and over again. You as an ex PL player might think that system was amazing but for a brand new player that's never played PL or SL, that system is extremely unintuitive. There are changes I'd like to make to the current Party system but they all require new code and at this moment, my code resources are limited.

Ideally, I'd like the option to flag your party as allowing other players to enter the instance and for Elite dungeons to not cut off new player entries after you have defeated one third of the dungeon. We'll see when we can get to those things.

[Rare]

Nvm

[GoodSyntax]

We're not going back to the PL Host/Join system in AL, so there's no point in bringing that up over and over again. You as an ex PL player might think that system was amazing but for a brand new player that's never played PL or SL, that system is extremely unintuitive. There are changes I'd like to make to the current Party system but they all require new code and at this moment, my code resources are limited.

Ideally, I'd like the option to flag your party as allowing other players to enter the instance and for Elite dungeons to not cut off new player entries after you have defeated one third of the dungeon. We'll see when we can get to those things.

The biggest challenge is that there is no way to "browse" for games that you can join in on. I like the idea of flagging your party to allow randoms to join in, but as someone who is looking to join a game, there isn't a way to do that.

If you could at least provide a means to look through games to join, that would go a long way. For instance, if I wanted to farm Elite Bael, I could load up Maps>Elite Maps>Ydra Forest>Rooks Nest, then instead of just Go!, add two buttons, one labeled "Create", whose function should be obvious, and another button labeled Browse (or something) where I can see if there are any active games to join in on.

As others have said, it is simply too difficult to put together elite farming parties. In the current construct, I find myself continually running with the same dozen players in elite maps, so I am not really meeting new people as much. The only place where I actually meet new people is in the PvP maps.

[FluffNStuff]

We're not going back to the PL Host/Join system in AL, so there's no point in bringing that up over and over again. You as an ex PL player might think that system was amazing but for a brand new player that's never played PL or SL, that system is extremely unintuitive. There are changes I'd like to make to the current Party system but they all require new code and at this moment, my code resources are limited.

Ideally, I'd like the option to flag your party as allowing other players to enter the instance and for Elite dungeons to not cut off new player entries after you have defeated one third of the dungeon. We'll see when we can get to those things.

I have been thinking about my big issue with the way the AL system works compared to PL as I have been leveling up my ALT and I can sum it up with the statement : "Where is everybody?"
When it comes to different areas, players come to realize that certain boards are better for leveling and certain boards are better for farming, and well, some boards can just be avoided after cleared. Eventually they start to amass on specific boards and others begin to empty out. The great benefit of the PL join listing that is missing here is you could tell at a quick glance where all the players of your level were. That way you don't end up sitting in an area thinking no one is playing the game when in reality they are all off on a different board because perhaps you are too far ahead, too far behind, or just no one at your level range plays the board you chose. If there were some type of indicator to let you know how many games of ~your~ level range were going on in each board, then that would be, like, totally fantastic!

[drgrimmy]

We're not going back to the PL Host/Join system in AL, so there's no point in bringing that up over and over again. You as an ex PL player might think that system was amazing but for a brand new player that's never played PL or SL, that system is extremely unintuitive. There are changes I'd like to make to the current Party system but they all require new code and at this moment, my code resources are limited.

Ideally, I'd like the option to flag your party as allowing other players to enter the instance and for Elite dungeons to not cut off new player entries after you have defeated one third of the dungeon. We'll see when we can get to those things.

I think these two changes would be a fantastic start!


I have been thinking about my big issue with the way the AL system works compared to PL as I have been leveling up my ALT and I can sum it up with the statement : "Where is everybody?"
When it comes to different areas, players come to realize that certain boards are better for leveling and certain boards are better for farming, and well, some boards can just be avoided after cleared. Eventually they start to amass on specific boards and others begin to empty out. The great benefit of the PL join listing that is missing here is you could tell at a quick glance where all the players of your level were. That way you don't end up sitting in an area thinking no one is playing the game when in reality they are all off on a different board because perhaps you are too far ahead, too far behind, or just no one at your level range plays the board you chose. If there were some type of indicator to let you know how many games of ~your~ level range were going on in each board, then that would be, like, totally fantastic!

I agree. Even though I know that there are probably always hundreds of people playing at almost any time, I often wonder where everyone is and I feel like things are pretty dead.

[Zeus]

I love the idea of the changes to the crates and we're going to try it out this weekend.

No more Epics, only Legendaries.
Not 100% drop chance on Legendaries anymore.
Slightly higher drop chance on Mythics and Arcanes because you now get three rolls so in theory, you could get up to 3 Legendary, Mythic or Arcane items in one crate.
Very high chance on Gold drops. Essentially you didn't get get Legendaries or Mythics/Arcanes? You got Gold instead (or possibly Plat, keeping Plat in there)

Also have another surprise for this weekend but I'll let Samhayne reveal that later.

Thank you, Swede!

I don't know if others are behind this effort as well, but if it is collaborated, I thank the others which are unnamed as well! In AL, I really like how often ideas from players are implemented into the game. It is a rewarding experience in itself and usually it works out well. Why? We the players are the ones who actually play the game daily and a good handful of them can offer ideas that would work realistically.

So, thank you!

~Apollo

[Energizeric]

I do have to say that I agree with Swede about the PL system being confusing to new players. I think I played for about 2 months and reached level 50 before I figured out that you could browse and join games from the menu. I can remember needing a quest in the 3rd dungeon in AO3, and I kept joining the first dungeon from the AO town and working my way to the 3rd dungeon since I didn't know I could just join the 3rd dungeon instantly.

The party system is easier to understand, however I do agree it needs some changes. The changes Swede suggests are the most important ones. My biggest frustration is when you and a friend want to do a dungeon together but cannot find 2 more players to run with. There is no way to party up and then allow other players to join the game.

The other big frustration is when you finish half of an elite dungeon only to have a couple of players be disconnected or just leave. I can remember trying to do Elite Skull Cove and players kept giving up and leaving, and you would have to start over with a new party. Yet in PL you could just PM your buddies and say "join me, I need help with the boss" and they would come 2 minutes later. We need that to be possible in AL, even if it means I must add my buddy to the party. They need to be able to join a dungeon run mid-way or even right at the end before the boss. I realize this may present a difficulty with the timed runs leaderboards, but just make the leaderboards reflect whoever finished the run, not who began it. Besides, switching party members half way through a run is most likely not the way to get on the leaderboards for a timed run anyway.

And how much fun did everyone have in PL when your buddy would post in guild chat "come for free hooch hat" and you would rush to join him before it filled up. Or when someone would say in guild chat "free boss" and you would join to help with the boss for the easy loot. I miss that in AL.

[Swede]

The other big frustration is when you finish half of an elite dungeon only to have a couple of players be disconnected or just leave. I can remember trying to do Elite Skull Cove and players kept giving up and leaving, and you would have to start over with a new party. Yet in PL you could just PM your buddies and say "join me, I need help with the boss" and they would come 2 minutes later. We need that to be possible in AL, even if it means I must add my buddy to the party. They need to be able to join a dungeon run mid-way or even right at the end before the boss. I realize this may present a difficulty with the timed runs leaderboards, but just make the leaderboards reflect whoever finished the run, not who began it. Besides, switching party members half way through a run is most likely not the way to get on the leaderboards for a timed run anyway.

And how much fun did everyone have in PL when your buddy would post in guild chat "come for free hooch hat" and you would rush to join him before it filled up. Or when someone would say in guild chat "free boss" and you would join to help with the boss for the easy loot. I miss that in AL.

Agreed, I'd really like to get that changed as soon as possible. We'll see what I can wrangle up.

[wvhills]

Agreed, I'd really like to get that changed as soon as possible. We'll see what I can wrangle up.

I disagree with PL system being confusing. I was a new PL player once and it took me longer to figure out AL's system. Imo it's nothing a quick tutorial couldn't address. The ideas you have will be a great improvement but it would still be nice to browse games that are open (like fluffy explained).

[Swede]

Loosely related

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?103554-Feedback-Request-No-more-Elite-Dungeons

[Darko]

I loved pl, I also loved sl party system, beinf able to create runs with password for guild runs(pvp rooms) I also liked being able to browse rooms (this room has 3 lowest lvl is 31, this room has 1 at 1 at lvl 29, which one should I select???) I loved having a choice , now its so randomand most people skip regulsr bosses cause their is no incentive to kill them anymore...The arena to me has opened a new system that can be used...instead of just crates the bosses have ability to drop pinks...every boss should have 6-10 pinks each...all different....in other games we can farm lower levels (sandstorm caves for example) to get very valuable items....also to make pve content more playable (which is another huge issue) I think quests that can give u a valuable item or set like dark set in pl would be valuable.. (make different options though so not everyone has same set) and please please nake all content playable (xp and kills) just scale up to your level as u do in tombs and hauntlet....this would open up so many more fsrming options. ..maybe end game weapons are random placement each season, so u have to search arlor for it... it really sucks only to be able to play one level....I cant even do kraken anymore :( so im subjected to one level nodr...and that's how players get bored and quit...if I had a chance to farm a noble armor in brakenridge elite, im all for it....lastly, if we had a slight chance to drop arcane or mythic on boss, I think everybody would say theyd love that....

[Rare]

I do have to say that I agree with Swede about the PL system being confusing to new players. I think I played for about 2 months and reached level 50 before I figured out that you could browse and join games from the menu. I can remember needing a quest in the 3rd dungeon in AO3, and I kept joining the first dungeon from the AO town and working my way to the 3rd dungeon since I didn't know I could just join the 3rd dungeon instantly.



Sounds to me you weren't confused. You just didn't know about it. That's common. Fyi, I did the same thing in forest haven before I asked someone and they explained it and introduced me to the forums.

Even with the party system it takes time to figure it out. If you think anyone just came to AL and just knew how the party system worked, you're mistaken.

It was about a week of playing before I figured out what partying even was. So to say this is so much easier, I disagree. There are a lot of things about this game that are "unintuitive" but that's ok. People figure things out. If they can't figure out something that simple, they would NEVER figure out how stats work. Or threat level.

Regardless, Swede already explicitly said they won't go to the pl/sl system. So there is no point dwelling on it. I've already started my case many times. I'm interested to see how the party system changes work out.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[JaytB]

How about just placing a 'join games' button in the popup screen when you select a location on the map?

It would give an overview of all runs that are taking place in the area you selected on the map. This wouldn't confuse anyone because nothing really changes except for that join button.

The join games screen could display the number of players, types of classes and game progress. It would then be easy to find a room where your class fits in best in a quick and easy way.

[Y O L O]

How about just placing a 'join games' button in the popup screen when you select a location on the map?

It would give an overview of all runs that are taking place in the area you selected on the map. This wouldn't confuse anyone because nothing really changes except for that join button.

The join games screen could display the number of players, types of classes and game progress. It would then be easy to find a room where your class fits in best in a quick and easy way.

+1 on this

[Ninjasmurf]

What if sts created a new way of looting mythics... Locked grand crate of the watch #2?? :)

[Y O L O]

No just no.locked crates are already a problem

[Energizeric]

What if sts created a new way of looting mythics... Locked grand crate of the watch #2?? :)

Ummmmm, how about NO! haha.

Just what we need, more kinds of locked crates. NOT!!!

[Puntus]

I think change economy system its hard but necessary , I have one suggestion : more vanities and we ll can drope vanities in elite maps and more chances to get arcane and mythic items. The economy works well when in the society re 2 classes , rich and normal people , not poor , or low poor people, actally in game re 2 classes rich and poor , but not balanced classes , because nowadays in game re a few rich players and a lot of poor players, I think the cause its the difference with arcane and mythic items in comparation with legendary items , actually if u wanna have full stats in warrior , and u have to buy all, the price its 60-70M aprox. thats crazy... I think arcane and mythic items should be dropable in elite maps , my suggestion its created a arcane maps and mythic maps.
Elite maps: legendary items ( all levels can access in this maps)
Mythic maps: mythic items ( actually level 30-31 can acces) , this maps should be a little more difficult than elite maps
Arcane maps: arcane items ( only access for level 31) , more hard maps than each others.
I think this system should be more fair and more fun.

Its only my opinion.

Thanks and regards

[Y O L O]

I think change economy system its hard but necessary , I have one suggestion : more vanities and we ll can drope vanities in elite maps and more chances to get arcane and mythic items. The economy works well when in the society re 2 classes , rich and normal people , not poor , or low poor people, actally in game re 2 classes rich and poor , but not balanced classes , because nowadays in game re a few rich players and a lot of poor players, I think the cause its the difference with arcane and mythic items in comparation with legendary items , actually if u wanna have full stats in warrior , and u have to buy all, the price its 60-70M aprox. thats crazy... I think arcane and mythic items should be dropable in elite maps , my suggestion its created a arcane maps and mythic maps.
Elite maps: legendary items ( all levels can access in this maps)
Mythic maps: mythic items ( actually level 30-31 can acces) , this maps should be a little more difficult than elite maps
Arcane maps: arcane items ( only access for level 31) , more hard maps than each others.
I think this system should be more fair and more fun.

Its only my opinion.

Thanks and regards

Nahh

[Puntus]

Nahh

Lmao, Nahh? Why nahh?

[Y O L O]

nvm...im to lazy to type why haha (exhausting day of work)

[Puntus]

With my suggestion u can get the best items with ur hability in game , actually only with ur lucky.
I think all the players or a lot of players prefer my suggestion than the actually chest system ( above the lockeds )

Its just my opinion

[Killingsworth]

How about just placing a 'join games' button in the popup screen when you select a location on the map?

It would give an overview of all runs that are taking place in the area you selected on the map. This wouldn't confuse anyone because nothing really changes except for that join button.

The join games screen could display the number of players, types of classes and game progress. It would then be easy to find a room where your class fits in best in a quick and easy way.

This.

[Kaytar]

How about just placing a 'join games' button in the popup screen when you select a location on the map?

It would give an overview of all runs that are taking place in the area you selected on the map. This wouldn't confuse anyone because nothing really changes except for that join button.

The join games screen could display the number of players, types of classes and game progress. It would then be easy to find a room where your class fits in best in a quick and easy way.This^^ is a quick & easy fix to the join party system. +1 JaytB

[Insomniack]

First time Ener posted this thread, I was really amazed how many different views and opinions were posted and the fact that so many good ideas came from this thread BY PLAYERS, and at the end some of them got implemented (gold/plat in crates, lower drop rate for pink items, etc etc) really made me feel satisfied. I know this thread is necro, but I really wanted to post and revive this thread now that season is at very end, and just hear your opinions, if those changes which were made, really worked well and fixed/healed AL economy and your thoughts overall on AL Economy at the moment. In my personal opinion, YES. The economy is in much better state than it was, there is more gold in game, prices are not fluctuating so much as earlier (yes they still vary alot, but in range of ~50-100k for elite pinks/~200-500k for mythics etc).. Chests are being sold pretty easily, crates are being sold pretty easily, elite pinks are still in demand (somewhat lower during season being at very end, but still holding their price at standstill), mythics are being bought and sold pretty easily, eggs too.. Prices overall fell to somewhat lower level, but now they are at standstill or fall a bit duo to new season coming, but overall, economy seems revived to me.

Anyway, that was my opinion, I would really like to hear rest of you and your thoughts on this matter, as I find economic part of this game far most intriguing for me, so share your thoughts, and sorry for necroing.. :)

[xcainnblecterx]

. The economy is in much better state than it was, there is more gold in game, prices are not fluctuating so much as earlier (yes they still vary alot, but in range of ~50-100k for elite pinks/~200-500k for mythics etc)..

What world of arcane legends is this? I want.to go there. The part about.the.economy being better.is.true just not now.due.to a new map coming everythings price.goes.unstable

[Xstealthxx]

I agree with most player who posted here (Especially Aedenos, CrimsonTider, and DrGrimmy).

I just like to add that on top of not getting decent gold drops to both be able to feed pets, pot up, and continuously farm like we normally do in other StS games.. oh and having to deal with the over priced items like someone else mentioned... we have a VERY HORRIBLE drop rate for "good" pinks (including eggs) without the use of elixirs. Which also make it difficult to keep up with all the expenses (including ridiculous listing fees).

The combination of high prices, high listing fees, pet feeds, potting up with a horrible drop rate without elixirs AND hardly any gold being looted on runs or quests AND liquidating items is pretty useless AND not everyone being good at merching... is simply not worth putting any effort into farming as new expansions and caps rise. Because theres no reward unless you have the plat to dish out.

Honestly, I miss the casual aspect of the StS games. When we could farm for about twenty mins and have some drops to make a decent profit to be able to afford the vital things in AL (pet feeds, pots, listing fees) at the level 16 & 21 caps... full elite runs... good ol' fashioned FUN! Once that casual aspect was tossed out the window, everything eventually went down hill from there. I just hope they can figure out better ways to fix all of these problems rooting in the AL economy without making it feel like its a full time job (or even a chore -.-) to make a profit on a freaken game... a game thats supposed to be time away from all that to begin with.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, Im not saying make it easy! Im saying make it more casual and less of a chore. Challenging yet simple enough that it doesn't take about an hour for an elite run to finish... oh and more gold looted during those runs... so we can continue. For the love of gaming, give us stuff to farm that actually DROP WITHOUT ELIXERS.



yep yep!

[Szangheili]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted :)

[Energizeric]

Yes, the economy has improved a tiny bit, but the real change will be noticed after the expansion. Remember that those cheap crate pinks were already out there when they made the change. Limiting the supply of them after they were already very common did not do a whole lot to help to raise their prices. But when the expansion comes and the new crate pinks are at level 35/36, those items will indeed be more scarce, and then we will see the full results of that change.

[Insomniack]

Yes, the economy has improved a tiny bit, but the real change will be noticed after the expansion. Remember that those cheap crate pinks were already out there when they made the change. Limiting the supply of them after they were already very common did not do a whole lot to help to raise their prices. But when the expansion comes and the new crate pinks are at level 35/36, those items will indeed be more scarce, and then we will see the full results of that change.

I have to agree with this. Haven't taken that into account. I'm wondering now about crate gear price on 35/36.. Got me thinking..

[Rare]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted :)

That's funny

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Wutzgood]

Honestly most people aren't buying expensive things because they are waiting for the expansion. I tell everyone in my guild not to buy till after the new expansion since most stuff will be outdated.

[Aziiii]

I agree with most uf u here, allot of crates where open this season makeing pinks over flow in auctions,the only items that sell fast are eggs and crates ...and farming is still hard since well some of us buy elix and get bad drops.That gold we spend for pets and pots doesnt make up for the bad drops sometimes but what can we do......just wait a little more for expansion and see how things work out :) Best of luck to all of u !

[Energizeric]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted :)

You give Cuba as an example of a good economy? LOL

I would argue that in the AL economy we actually have more elements of Communism than Capitalism. Yes, we do have the auction which is a free market. But STS controls the price of the auction listing fees, the price of potions, the price of some pets, and they control the drop rate of all items. That is central planning (i.e. Communism) at its finest. As we have seen, central planning can work if its properly managed, but even the slightest error and everything falls apart.

The best economies in the world are all some combination of both Capitalism and Communism. Most economists refer to such a system as "Regulated Capitalism". Most such systems allow supply and demand to run the market (rather than central planning), but add in certain protections for both consumers and businesses to prevent abuse.

Unfortunately, in most of these countries those who are in charge of the regulation have become corrupted by those they are supposed to regulate, so these systems have broken down. That does tend to give fuel to the argument in favor of central planning. However, none of the Communist economies have been very successful either, so it appears both systems are very flawed.

[bramer]

You give Cuba as an example of a good economy? LOL

I would argue that in the AL economy we actually have more elements of Communism than Capitalism. Yes, we do have the auction which is a free market. But STS controls the price of the auction listing fees, the price of potions, the price of some pets, and they control the drop rate of all items. That is central planning (i.e. Communism) at its finest. As we have seen, central planning can work if its properly managed, but even the slightest error and everything falls apart.

The best economies in the world are all some combination of both Capitalism and Communism. Most economists refer to such a system as "Regulated Capitalism". Most such systems allow supply and demand to run the market (rather than central planning), but add in certain protections for both consumers and businesses to prevent abuse.

Unfortunately, in most of these countries those who are in charge of the regulation have become corrupted by those they are supposed to regulate, so these systems have broken down. That does tend to give fuel to the argument in favor of central planning. However, none of the Communist economies have been very successful either, so it appears both systems are very flawed.

Everyone should switch back to the age-old system of trading dead animals for more dead animals. Worked fine for the cavemen.

This is bramer - signing out

[Zeus]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted :)

All I know is that you believed your Government teacher too much in HS. Trust me, don't take everything he/she says for granted.

As for AL's economy, it's still one of the worst economies out of the entire Legends game. The gap between the rich and poor is incredible, although mythics have become a lot more affordable as of late. Try buying and selling in AL versus buying and selling in PL. In AL, you have to stand for hours just trying to find a person who can even AFFORD your items. Getting them to buy it is a different story entirely.

In a healthy economy, this should not be the case. There should always be a constant flux of buying and selling. In AL, as you can see, that is simply not the case.

[Suentous PO]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted :)

Hi, I'm Cuban, don't even get me started! :)

[xmakx]

I think the game economy will get better after the expansion comes out.
Just 3 more bad days for merching.

[Szangheili]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant. :)

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

[Insomniack]

Communism, as intended to be, is not possible to exist! We all know that. "Perfect" Communism is not present, nor it will ever be anywhere. It is just choice of going to more authoritarian or libertarian system, AND choosing between how much influx of free market economy you should allow. As for AL, yes, new expansion should have vast effect on economy. I am now really in some positive mood toward it, I think that it will prove itself healed. But.. Only time will tell.

[Zeus]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant. :)

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Britain lasted pretty long too... without turning to communism.

[joshtheboss]

Why does everyone have to be so absolute? Complete communism doesn't work just like complete capitalism wont.

[Morholt]

It's 'staggering' from a combination of everyone being aware of the expansion bringing purples that'll be better than current to pinks & the ABSOLUTELY ABSURD mark up people resell items for.
The prices for gear has become so much higher than their actual useful value. I've been using a bling bauble of potency instead of a swirling amulet of potency. I surely can afford a bunch of them. But the upgrade is so pointless. Two dex and one int. What is the usual price for these? Anywhere from 35-60k. Before the expansion announcement? Around 150k and well over. Want to know something crazy? A few days ago I saw one posted for as low as 10k! And about 4 more under 20k (all lvl 31 ofc). Since then, all back over the 30k mark. Didn't even buy the one for 10k. Can't justify 10k for such a minimal upgrade--especially when purples will be giving higher stats very soon. Considered buy & resell, but felt everyone would have the same thoughts on it when it's being sold for 30k (I'll just wait a week for better and cheaper).

The greed of merchers is disgusting on some gear. Found something maybe a month back. Was being sold for over 100k at the time. Waited 5 days. Prices were lower. Illisted for around 78k for 3 days--being about 12k under current lowest (just wanted to get it off my hands). What did I find as the next three days passed? Being under priced...more and more and more. Same handful of people relisting. Finally expired, I listed at around 48k, thinking that price is crazy low (to the point that someone would try to resell mine), with every other at 60k still. Nope. Same thing. People posted as low as 33k by the end of the 3 days. I finally sold it at around 18k, around what all my list fees for it costed me. And I believe the current list fees to be plenty fair.

The economy isn't dying. But it isn't booming. It's functioning. Deal with it. You can't make a 700% profit off of something when it isn't booming. But it will be booming again with the release. You can still make gold off of merching stuff--but a reasonable amount. You just have to list stuff at an actually reasonable price. Making 200k a day with minimal effort is absurd and not right. Affording a mythic item within 10 days isn't intended.
Mammon destroys all economies of every type.

As for a suggestion for the game itself, there indeed needs to be some mythic & non mythic middle ground. Slightly power up all gear. Then give legendary gear a good boost. Make legendary gear less common. Epics should become the survivable gear and legendary can be the harder to get gear as you work towards mythic items. Research & development can work on the exact amount of gear boosting to find the right balances.

Making it easier in finding a group for elites would make gaming in harder maps more enjoyable, rather than many feeling like their options are easy to crush normal maps or impossible elites. Perhaps even a middle ground difficulty! I'd love to see a "/f " kind of command in chat. Essentially, it's exactly the same as sending a message to people in your guild, expect this is to your friends list. Makes it A LOT easier to go, "/f anyone up for elite oltgar? Definitely need a mage," rather than having to message people one by one--not exactly pleasant to do when typing on your phone.

[Szangheili]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant. :)

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Britain lasted pretty long too... without turning to communism.
True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites. Over time, capitalism corrupts the rich, which is basically what is happening in this game. The "Merchants" complain about price drops, etc. And how the poor got decent gear for cheap, and bla bla bla. Kinda sickening to hear this all the time.. But, money is money, it changes ppl, what can I say? I would like to see how long humanity lasts with all forms of currency gone.. What will we replace the dollar with? Human Nature shows that overall, we're a greedy species. We wouldn't last so long.. Lol

[Rare]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant. :)

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Ok. No idea what you are talking about. Your comment about castro... The logic has a lot of holes. Lets say someone is a bad leader, would you expect their country to disappear? I dont understand. The strength of a leader can be measured by the quality of life of their constituency. In a perfect world, communism maybe best suited. In practice, it is far far from it.

I tried to stay out of this debate, but some things you said touched a nerve.

Communism works best in an oppressed society with a clearly defined class structure.

You should read "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. If you're in high school it should be right up your alley.

And, to equate the economy in AL to communism, imo, is pretty absurd. First and foremost, STS, does not directly benefit/suffer from the economic condition in Arlor.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Rare]

True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites. Over time, capitalism corrupts the rich, which is basically what is happening in this game. The "Merchants" complain about price drops, etc. And how the poor got decent gear for cheap, and bla bla bla. Kinda sickening to hear this all the time.. But, money is money, it changes ppl, what can I say? I would like to see how long humanity lasts with all forms of currency gone.. What will we replace the dollar with? Human Nature shows that overall, we're a greedy species. We wouldn't last so long.. Lol

Oh... Yes, there is no corruption at all in a communist/totalitarian society. My bad.

These are idealistic comments. Soon, though, you will be exposed to how the real world works. Without money, nothing happens. What do you think REALLY drives innovation and progression? Do you think its people's desire for knowledge?

What you're suggesting is anarchy, oppression, war, survival. POWER is the true corrupter. As they say "money is power." If money is gone, power is something else.

Here is an idea. Lets make this like a true communist society. Sts should make 5 outfits. Then, they get to choose who gets the best gear and who gets the worst. We dont need gold for anything. It will all be given to us as we "need" it. In the meantime, just keep playing the game. Farming elites and opening crates. But whatever you get goes to sts to distribute as they see fit. Sound good?


True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites.

Lmao

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Bless]

Every page there is atleast one post that is like 10000 characters long --"

[Energizeric]

Communism works best in an oppressed society with a clearly defined class structure.

No, that is actually where it is at its worst.

Communism would work best in a democracy. Then those in charge of the central planning would be chosen by the people, and would have the people's best interest in mind. The problem is that the only time it was ever tried, the wealthy elite in other nearby countries were afraid it would spread, so they plotted a coup to overthrow and murder the democratically elected leader after only a very short period of time. So we never got a chance to see how that turns out over the long run.

Most of the criticisms of Communism have to do with the oppression and authoritarian nature of the political structure -- all things that would not exist in a democratic republic. It's easy to think there is somehow a link between Communism and Authoritarian Rule since both have often been present together. But remember there are plenty of countries that are Capitalist and also have Authoritarian Rule. One does not require the other.

It is possible to have a democratically elected government participate in the central planning of an economy. If you have ever read Karl Marx, that is what was intended.

BTW, if you know your history well, you will know which country I am referring to.



Without money, nothing happens. What do you think REALLY drives innovation and progression? Do you think its people's desire for knowledge?

Another common criticism of socialism/communism.... There will be no innovation. Except there has been tons of innovation in history without anyone ever having a profit motive. Some American examples: the space program (NASA), The Manhattan Project, Salk Vaccine for Polio, the internet, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc...

Yes, I would agree that innovation as it is related to consumer goods (i.e. televisions, cell phones, automobiles, etc.) is best in a free market economy. But mankind does require plenty of innovation in areas that are not profitable, and these areas tend to get lost and left behind in a strict capitalist society....

I'm sure everyone has heard this as a crude example of how capitalism works, but if you invented an automobile that runs on water, and you decided to sell your invention to the highest bidder, no doubt the oil companies would buy this invention, and then lock it away. Innovation sometimes hurts profits. In these cases, a planned economy works considerably better than a free market.

An example of this: our lousy American health care system only seems to concentrate innovation on treatments rather than prevention/cures. Because what is more profitable, to prevent or cure the illness, or for people to take drugs to treat their illness for the rest of their life? It's no surprise that a country with 5% of the world's population takes more than 50% of the worlds pharmaceuticals, yet we still rank near the bottom of all industrialized countries in most health care quality indicators. That is how the free market works. What is most profitable is not always what is best.

In the end, I think the best system is some combination of free market and central planning, which is what we have here in the United States. However, our system has long ago become corrupted by money, and now those who regulate are often puppets of the industries they are supposed to be regulating. So today, regulation in the United States actually serves to hurt the free market and keep the powerful corporations in control. This is not how central planning is supposed to function. It is also not how Capitalism is supposed to function. One corporate merger after another has resulted in very little competition in many major industries, and this hurts innovation. But when you mix money and politics, I guess this is what you end up with.


BTW, this thread is getting way off subject, so I suggest a moderator lock it up. Thanks!

[Bless]

No, that is actually where it is at its worst.

Communism would work best in a democracy. Then those in charge of the central planning would be chosen by the people, and would have the people's best interest in mind. The problem is that the only time it was ever tried, the wealthy elite in other nearby countries were afraid it would spread, so they plotted a coup to overthrow and murder the democratically elected leader after only a very short period of time. So we never got a chance to see how that turns out over the long run.

Most of the criticisms of Communism have to do with the oppression and authoritarian nature of the political structure -- all things that would not exist in a democratic republic. It's easy to think there is somehow a link between Communism and Authoritarian Rule since both have often been present together. But remember there are plenty of countries that are Capitalist and also have Authoritarian Rule. One does not require the other.

It is possible to have a democratically elected government participate in the central planning of an economy. If you have ever read Karl Marx, that is what was intended.

BTW, if you know your history well, you will know which country I am referring to.




Another common criticism of socialism/communism.... There will be no innovation. Except there has been tons of innovation in history without anyone ever having a profit motive. Some American examples: the space program (NASA), The Manhattan Project, Salk Vaccine for Polio, the internet, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc...

Yes, I would agree that innovation as it is related to consumer goods (i.e. televisions, cell phones, automobiles, etc.) is best in a free market economy. But mankind does require plenty of innovation in areas that are not profitable, and these areas tend to get lost and left behind in a strict capitalist society....

I'm sure everyone has heard this as a crude example of how capitalism works, but if you invented an automobile that runs on water, and you decided to sell your invention to the highest bidder, no doubt the oil companies would buy this invention, and then lock it away. Innovation sometimes hurts profits. In these cases, a planned economy works considerably better than a free market.

An example of this: our lousy American health care system only seems to concentrate innovation on treatments rather than prevention/cures. Because what is more profitable, to prevent or cure the illness, or for people to take drugs to treat their illness for the rest of their life? It's no surprise that a country with 5% of the world's population takes more than 50% of the worlds pharmaceuticals, yet we still rank near the bottom of all industrialized countries in most health care quality indicators. That is how the free market works. What is most profitable is not always what is best.

In the end, I think the best system is some combination of free market and central planning, which is what we have here in the United States. However, our system has long ago become corrupted by money, and now those who regulate are often puppets of the industries they are supposed to be regulating. So today, regulation in the United States actually serves to hurt the free market and keep the powerful corporations in control. This is not how central planning is supposed to function. It is also not how Capitalism is supposed to function. One corporate merger after another has resulted in very little competition in many major industries, and this hurts innovation. But when you mix money and politics, I guess this is what you end up with.


BTW, this thread is getting way off subject, so I suggest a moderator lock it up. Thanks!


Every page there is atleast one post that is like 10000 characters long --"

My point is proved.

[GoodSyntax]

Actually Energizeric, this is a very well thought out, well written post (even though it is off-topic) - and I actually agree with you on many points.

Now, to pull this thing back on topic, it seems that the latest releases of Dimensional and Devourer gear had, at best, a tiny positive impact on the market upon their initial release. The problem is that the stats are the same as the Bonechill/Radiant sets that they replace; hence the reason why the market stagnated once again shortly after the release of the new gear.

At this point, I, as many others, am content to wait until the expansion is released before I jump back into merching again - I just don't see any demand right now. I am hoping that shortly after the new expansion is rolled out, and the new pinks start dropping, there will be significant pent up demand which can reinvigorate the stagnant economy.

[Energizeric]

Actually Energizeric, this is a very well thought out, well written post (even though it is off-topic) - and I actually agree with you on many points.

Now, to pull this thing back on topic, it seems that the latest releases of Dimensional and Devourer gear had, at best, a tiny positive impact on the market upon their initial release. The problem is that the stats are the same as the Bonechill/Radiant sets that they replace; hence the reason why the market stagnated once again shortly after the release of the new gear.

At this point, I, as many others, am content to wait until the expansion is released before I jump back into merching again - I just don't see any demand right now. I am hoping that shortly after the new expansion is rolled out, and the new pinks start dropping, there will be significant pent up demand which can reinvigorate the stagnant economy.

Yes, it's just same stats with a different look. No reason why anyone is going to pay significantly more for just a different look, so those items are cheap as well. But when the level 35/36 versions of those items come out later this week, those items will have some value and will not be as common as the bonechill/radiant sets are, so then we will see if the change to crates has a positive effect. I believe it will.

[Snakespeare]

There actually ISN'T a pink bow available at this time for under 10K.

And for the record, I LIKE the fact that I can use affordable pinks in this game and let the "elitists" go for mythic, etc. I don't think this is a bad thing. If there is too much of something, people shouldn't sell it. An item's value is what someone will pay. I think we went down this road when PL was L50 and the Sunblessed Bow dropped "too easily". I think that's nonsense. Value is not based on function. A value is not absolute. A value is a changing concept in the mind of the one who desires a thing. The one who is selling does not value the item, he values the gold he can get for the item. And thus, through negotiation, they either work it out or they don't. The seller can't FIX a value on a thing because he is not the evaluator. He only knows what he wants, and it not the thing itself. He wants gold.

STS isn't going to mess with the market. They introduce new items and let the gold pieces fall where they may.

[Energizeric]

The issue at hand is the color rarity. Pink/Legendary was supposed to be somewhat rare items. But those crate pinks were not rare at all since every locked crate ever opened had one inside. So it was time for a change, and STS made that change making them a bit more scarce. Now you only get one every few crates, which cuts down on the supply significantly. This helps those items to hold their value. This is a good thing. Legendary items should not be "low end". Epic/Rare items should be low end. If they are not, then why do they even exist?

[Uzii]

The issue at hand is the color rarity. Pink/Legendary was supposed to be somewhat rare items. But those crate pinks were not rare at all since every locked crate ever opened had one inside. So it was time for a change, and STS made that change making them a bit more scarce. Now you only get one every few crates, which cuts down on the supply significantly. This helps those items to hold their value. This is a good thing. Legendary items should not be "low end". Epic/Rare items should be low end. If they are not, then why do they even exist?

Pardon me for saying it so bold but stats on those items SUCKS. thats why

[GoodSyntax]

It's as Snakespeare said, crate pinks offer decent mainstream stats at a reasonable price.

There is a place for items like these, so I don't have much of an issue with it. The greater issue I see is the propensity to regurgitate the same statted items with new names and designs. It doesn't add much variety to the game, thus drags down pricing and causes the market to stagnate.

I mean, why not add a new Sorcerer helm with no stats, just +200 armor, or a Rogue Bow with +15 DMG, or a Warrior armor with +500 HP, then players will have to make a REAL sacrifice in customizing their toon, which will lead to more diversity and a stimulus to the market. At this point, most non-mythic/arcane end-gamers have essentially the same gear, the same stats and only one or two skill build-out variations.

[Bless]

Just one more thank till 9 bars!

[Bless]

NO 9 bars?!?!?!?!?!?

[Reunegade]

9 bars yet? :(

[Skeletonlord]

9 bars yet? :(

Best way of giving rep is using the thumb, gives more rep. Just a tip.

[Bless]

1002 rep :(

[Snakespeare]

The issue at hand is the color rarity. Pink/Legendary was supposed to be somewhat rare items. But those crate pinks were not rare at all since every locked crate ever opened had one inside. So it was time for a change, and STS made that change making them a bit more scarce. Now you only get one every few crates, which cuts down on the supply significantly. This helps those items to hold their value. This is a good thing. Legendary items should not be "low end". Epic/Rare items should be low end. If they are not, then why do they even exist?

But how many kinds of uber-rare do we need? I don't have anything mythic, and I'm not sure I want it. If you could get them by farming like in DL, I'd have some, but since I have to open locked chests for 15 plat to get a mythic, I will never have them. Spending real money and getting nothing is not something I do. ;)

[Energizeric]

But how many kinds of uber-rare do we need? I don't have anything mythic, and I'm not sure I want it. If you could get them by farming like in DL, I'd have some, but since I have to open locked chests for 15 plat to get a mythic, I will never have them. Spending real money and getting nothing is not something I do. ;)

You reasoning is way off....

1) Mythic items come in both chests (which do NOT cost plat to open) and crates.

2) I have all mythic items (all 5 slots) and an Arcane pet without ever looting anything from a locked crate. Just farm elites (and farm for crates), sell whatever drops you get in the auction, and then save your gold. But yes, if pinks are worthless then it's hard to do. I made most of my money in season 2 & 3 when quite a few pinks were worth 1m+.

3) Pricey pinks actually benefit non-plat players since you can actually farm for items that you can sell for significant money. Then you can save your money and buy mythics. Pricey pinks only hurt you if you rarely farm and don't wish to make money (like if you are a PvP player who doesn't wish to be bothered with PvE at all).

4) The idea of the colors (green, purple, pink, orange, red) is to tell you how rare something is. So red/arcane are most rare, orange/mythic are slightly more common but still very rare, pink/legendary are somewhat rare, purple/epic are not very rare at all, green/rare are very plentiful, and white/common are just junk. At least that is the way it was supposed to be. It seems as if purple, green and white have all become junk, and pinks are now the common items. That is not how it was supposed to be, as is evidenced by the names "epic", "rare", etc..

[drgrimmy]

2) I have all mythic items (all 5 slots) and an Arcane pet without ever looting anything from a locked crate. Just farm elites (and farm for crates), sell whatever drops you get in the auction, and then save your gold. But yes, if pinks are worthless then it's hard to do. I made most of my money in season 2 & 3 when quite a few pinks were worth 1m+.

3) Pricey pinks actually benefit non-plat players since you can actually farm for items that you can sell for significant money. Then you can save your money and buy mythics. Pricey pinks only hurt you if you rarely farm and don't wish to make money (like if you are a PvP player who doesn't wish to be bothered with PvE at all).


This is why I am worried about next season. Why are any rich people going to spend 1m+ on legendary elite drops next season when the mythic gear they already have from this season is still going to be better than the top legendary elite gear from next season? I predict that farming to make gold is not going to be as profitable as it was in past seasons. I predict that the only way to make significant gold from farming next season is farming for golden elite chests and crates both of which will still be marketable as they will can contain mythic and arcane gear.

[afrobug]

This is why I am worried about next season. Why are any rich people going to spend 1m+ on legendary elite drops next season when the mythic gear they already have from this season is still going to be better than the top legendary elite gear from next season? I predict that farming to make gold is not going to be as profitable as it was in past seasons. I predict that the only way to make significant gold from farming next season is farming for golden elite chests and crates both of which will still be marketable as they will can contain mythic and arcane gear.

This! I remember the rings and amulets from warchests like infused ring which gives INT and DMG for sorcerers and swirling amulet of potency for rogues costs 700k-1M+. And mythic ring costs above 10m and mythic amulets were like 7-10m+. There's a huge gap between the pricing so people actually considers buying them over mythics. But now that too many crates have been opened and there's an abundant supply of mythic gears prices went down. And so legendary items lost their value. So come this expansion, taking into consideration that mythics are the best of their class, it would be difficult to earn significant amount of gold out of those better pinks. Unless prices for mythic gears soar up high again, pinks really are the new purple/green and yeah there would be no middle class. I could be wrong so I'll be waiting to see what's going to happen.

[falmear]

I posted this in another thread but I'll raise the point here. But damage wise the mythic ring won't be as good as the level 36 legendary rings. Mythic ring only has +0.4 damage over level 31 legend ring of assault for example. Yes it has a lot of hp but in PvE it's not that great because you can spam pots plus ur tank takes the damage. Mythic ring will still be good for PvP but I think the level 36 rings will be in high demand. As for everything else I am not sure what will happen because everyone cries about their expensive mythics not lasting. So we dug our own grave if people aren't buying legendary equipment.

[Morholt]

@afrobug: I imagine mythic gear is going to go up in value. They are going to become scarce, as they are going to be non-tradeable if upgraded. A lot of myhthic users just trade their mythic X for mythic Y back & forth. And friends will swap back & forth gear. This will no longer be doable. A player will have to have mythic helms & plates for each character. With this, that means lvl 36 pinks are going to have a good value, as they will be better than un-upgraded mythic gear.
It's going to be hard to find mythic gear available for trade.
Crates are gonna be desired.
Plat sales are going to be up.
Mythic gear prices are going to be up.
Legendary gear is going to be valuable.

See, guys? Sts has it under control. :)

If I had the gold to do so, I'd buy a bunch of mythic helms & armors to hoard for up to a month. The prices will be up due to low supply & a higher demand, plus newer wealthy players being able to afford them, after having made god gold off the pinks that are selling well.

[Energizeric]

This is why I am worried about next season. Why are any rich people going to spend 1m+ on legendary elite drops next season when the mythic gear they already have from this season is still going to be better than the top legendary elite gear from next season? I predict that farming to make gold is not going to be as profitable as it was in past seasons. I predict that the only way to make significant gold from farming next season is farming for golden elite chests and crates both of which will still be marketable as they will can contain mythic and arcane gear.

This assumes that no new players join the game. If the population of the game becomes fixed, then you are correct. But there are always new players coming and old players leaving, so there will always be players at the stage of their AL life where they can now afford the best pinks but cannot afford mythics. Or maybe they have 1 or 2 mythics, but the rest legendary. I spent half of the Nordr expansion using Noble "of Security" helm and armor as I could not yet afford mythic armor.

I realize some players just spend a ton of plat and are instantly rich, but for me it took 6 months of playing before I could afford multiple mythic items, and I play a lot more hours than most. So for those in that 2-3 month stage, they will be in the market for such gear.

[Osabevie]

Personally (i might be wrong so plz correct me) getting 100k to 200k gold so that's lep and Orion for me wasn't too hard but getting beyond that is harder. The worst part is when you buy the item you were saving for eg: a better pet or armor then you have such a small amount of gold again. I think the problem is giving players new incentives to build their gold levels back up. (If this idea has already been posted plz tell me i didn't have time to read the whole thread). They could be: new vanities (i know some are coming :) ) or as energizeric said make the legendary items a bit rarer and maybe with better stats so I will want to save up for them. This would put more gold into the c.s and traders and allow people to make a profit of the slightly rarer and better legendary items.

[Rare]

I posted this in another thread but I'll raise the point here. But damage wise the mythic ring won't be as good as the level 36 legendary rings. Mythic ring only has +0.4 damage over level 31 legend ring of assault for example. Yes it has a lot of hp but in PvE it's not that great because you can spam pots plus ur tank takes the damage. Mythic ring will still be good for PvP but I think the level 36 rings will be in high demand. As for everything else I am not sure what will happen because everyone cries about their expensive mythics not lasting. So we dug our own grave if people aren't buying legendary equipment.

+1

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[kharmel]

BEST DISCUSSION i have read;-) Great minds, and two way communication was transparent.
Though it took me over than 30 minutes to read all, but worth it. Good job for the thread starter,to all well- opinionated people for additional info and to swede for hearing the mass.
> Wasnt be suprised if this game will be SUCCESSFUL in the long run because of the talented people that plays this game;-)

[Rare]

No, that is actually where it is at its worst.

Communism would work best in a democracy.

I don't want to derail your thread, but I feel like I need to respond to this. I just can't help it.

First, lets assume we are talking about modern communism. Its seems that is the case. Actual Marxism is a completely different ballgame. I think you and I both know it is impossible in reality for communism to ever work in a democracy. The government decides who is given what. First of all, that is a LOT of power. There will be a power struggle from the beginning (unless there is a sham democracy like we see in our current communist/socialist regimes). It is the governments job to define the social order. The only way to maintain continuity is to ensure the social order does not change. That is impossible with elected officials (is a communist society). Without writing a novel, it is pretty easy to see what this will lead to. Revolt, rebellion, civil war. It is human nature to want a better life. It is unrealistic for a human to elect officials that would:

A. Make their life worse.
B. Make their life the same, if it is already bad.

The true concepts of Marxism are idealistic. They cannot have a place in reality as we know it. There area couple books that are pretty common. If you are interested in politics and haven't read them, check out 1984 and A Brave New World.




Another common criticism of socialism/communism.... There will be no innovation. Except there has been tons of innovation in history without anyone ever having a profit motive. Some American examples: the space program (NASA), The Manhattan Project, Salk Vaccine for Polio, the internet, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc...

Well, I partly agree with this. There are some innovations and discoveries that are not driven by money. Mostly those that are born out of necessity. The greatest driver of technological advance (other than money) is competition (whether it be for money, or indirectly power, or just power). Then necessity.

Sorry for derailing. If you want to continue discussing it, pm me.

[drgrimmy]

This assumes that no new players join the game. If the population of the game becomes fixed, then you are correct. But there are always new players coming and old players leaving, so there will always be players at the stage of their AL life where they can now afford the best pinks but cannot afford mythics. Or maybe they have 1 or 2 mythics, but the rest legendary. I spent half of the Nordr expansion using Noble "of Security" helm and armor as I could not yet afford mythic armor.

I realize some players just spend a ton of plat and are instantly rich, but for me it took 6 months of playing before I could afford multiple mythic items, and I play a lot more hours than most. So for those in that 2-3 month stage, they will be in the market for such gear.

No it is not. In the past few seasons you could get a drop of the top legendary warrior armor in the first few days of the season and it would be worth 3-4m gold. The lvl26 squidfire rod of assault was worth 3m for a while when it first came out. I know this because i got these drops and this is how i made my gold. Not by merching. The list goes on of legendary gear that was worth millions when it first came out and was farmable (not from crates or chests). I am not talking about noble of security sorcerer gear, which although it was worth a decent amount of gold, it was not a big ticket item that was farmable and worth a ton of gold. No one is going to pay 3m for a top legendary staff anymore when the mythic gun is already cheaper and far better. No on is going to pay 3-4m for top legendary warrior armor when the mythic that is better is only slightly more expensive and ungradable. In my opinion the decision to have mythic and arcane gear he the top gear for several seasons has ruined the economy for gear that is not mythic or arcane. This has nothing to do with assumptions of whether or not new players join the game.


P.S. Don't get me wrong. I think what STS did with mythic and arcane items was a very smart business decision, and keeps this game going from a real life perspective. I just feel as though it has had a negative effect on those of us who don't enjoy opening crates with plat, and has put a serious damper on the market for farmable legendary gear.

[Rare]

No it is not. In the past few seasons you could get a drop of the top legendary warrior armor in the first few days of the season and it would be worth 3-4m gold. The lvl26 squidfire rod of assault was worth 3m for a while when it first came out. I know this because i got these drops and this is how i made my gold. Not by merching. The list goes on of legendary gear that was worth millions when it first came out and was farmable (not from crates or chests). I am not talking about noble of security sorcerer gear, which although it was worth a decent amount of gold, it was not a big ticket item that was farmable and worth a ton of gold. No one is going to pay 3m for a top legendary staff anymore when the mythic gun is already cheaper and far better. No on is going to pay 3-4m for top legendary warrior armor when the mythic that is better is only slightly more expensive and ungradable. In my opinion the decision to have mythic and arcane gear he the top gear for several seasons has ruined the economy for gear that is not mythic or arcane. This has nothing to do with assumptions of whether or not new players join the game.

To add to that... if I am saving for Mythic gear, I am not going to pay 5x as much for top level legendary gear. I'll pay the 1/5th and get the lesser legendary gear (for example L30). And continue saving.

[Zuzeq]

I don't believe making Mythics upgrade is the issue. I think it's the "pay for the best" AL world we live in that is killing the market. Think about it, the best items are one credit card swoop away. The answer is to make the "best" pinks more comparable to golds and make them farmable only. Like Teeth, questionbly the best daggers and can only be farmed. Take that idea and greatly lower the drop rates. This has to be across the board though unlike the bows. Mythic bow, top right? well you could loss 4 points of damage if you simply spam crates for the New bow or Bonechill and be good. Think about the structure of every single weapon....Mountain Teeth of this...Mountain Teeth of that...Hammer of this... Hammer of that. One sux, the middle one is so so and there is a top. If every one held their one in some way, you'll make more money. Example, if the bottom version granted more HP than top and more Mana the middle or the top version granted more Damage and Crit then both but less of something else. This way the differance in price tags won't be as much and you can make gold off whichever one you loot. Switching gears, what the heck would a full Mythic player would have a need for in the new content? first X the weapons or make the level 36 versions farmable or roll them back out when you need another quick payday weekend (change the look if your going to do that). How about a farmable pet thats better the current ones that the mass would put AHEAD of Mali in there rotation? Being full Mythic, prevent me from getting bored by making me WORK for items I need...like a hot Pet, make the top weapons drop rarely and restructure the weapon system so we can make some gold from whichever one we loot. I mean who spends more time trying to sell the pinks they get than it took to loot them? *raises hand*

[Alrisaia]

I just think more Elite Pinks in general would help...

Part of what makes Elite Pinks less valuable is that they become a commodity - Once an item becomes a commodity and not a rare and sought after item, suddenly it's value declines since the only differentiation between the Elite Pink Daggers I'm selling and the Elite Pink Daggers someone else is selling is price.

As soon as price becomes the only differentiation between x and y (whatever x and y might be) you create a price battle among merchants... Eventually things stabilize at the willing & able point of connection between supply and demand - however... in an MMO you have infinite supply, and a finite amount of demand, thus causing the price to fall, fall, fall, fall, fall and you guessed it... fall.

I propose the following:

1) Make Elite blue gear (Epic) better than trash pink gear of the same level. Reduce the drop rate of Elite Blue gear.

2) In order to prevent the infinite supply problem - something needs to be put into place to allow for the liquidation of gear... perhaps a no-drop conversion of your items, where you can increase the stats slightly, however in doing so, you make it no-drop / no-trade. I would have gladly done so with the Mountain's Teeth of Brutality because my plan was to USE them, not sell them. In fact, I will probably give them away and I paid a LOT of gold for them when I bought them...

3) White, Green, and Blue items. I don't even know why we have them... just make it so that gold drops, so we can go buy our trash pinks. I very rarely come accross someone using white, green, or blue items - what was done last season to increase the viability of the blue / epic gear was smart... it just needs a little bit more of a push. It's too bad really - artists worked hard on developing different models for our toons with this gear and here we are liquidating it because it's pretty much as useful as a knifein a gunfight.

Anyway - My thoughts are with regards to the infinite supply... that seems to be the biggest issue with the AL economy, and is why Eggs hold their value so well. Once someone buys and egg, typically they're going to open it and that's that.

[Snakespeare]

That's cool, Energizic, but I'm still not going to waste my time playing that much. I have a lot of reading to do and I'm not getting any younger. So I'm fine with pinks. :)

[IronMonkey]

with the number of views and responses related to this topic alone, I would recommend STS to create a new game, Economics Legends.

[abihakim]

with the number of views and responses related to this topic alone, I would recommend STS to create a new game, Economics Legends.

Platinum Legends

[moot]

Economy That Is Controlled By Plats And Merchers Legends


pay me please for the title name...

[diego1marcus]

I agree with some people here, that the mythics are just overpriced, and the people selling them are just greedy, although I think the reason why they price it so high is because they wanna get their money's worth. Imagine one elite dude who spends countless of plat in order to get one mythc item, in hopes of selling it in the cs. And also, like what other people are saying here, STS should raise the gains of gold in areas and even from missions. Just doing the 3 daily missions in Shuyal rewards me with oblt about 2300 gold. And for what, killing 20 shadowmancers, collecting 20 bone fragments, and even collecting dead lanterns?

[diego1marcus]

Another thing that I noticed is the way STS abuses their platinum. STS must be very desperate to get money put of the people so they make things that are only accesible vie platinum. And because of that te value of gold is slowly depleting because Platinum is the one thats shaping the econonmy of AL.

[Rare]

I agree with some people here, that the mythics are just overpriced,

If you'd have said this last August it might have had some legitimacy. The mythic are NOT overpriced now.

Sts is a company with employees. If the company does not make money, the employees don't have jobs. Don't be so selfish. If you don't want to dish out money or work your butt off, be happy with legendary like a lot of people are.

I would like to live where you do where everything is free.

Btw, last post was 8/29/2013.

[Sheener]

I couldnt read everything lol too much. But at this point I think a lot of people r trying to liquidate or put money into things like locks. So economy is bad atm as it should be. The lvl 31 and 36 best items that rnt good at 41 will be near worthless bc so many out there and prob not to many twinks at that lvls

[nelson131]

Well........now all prices are crashing like hell, nothing is sold, nothing is farmed except lockeds and eggs.....the economy is stale. And also, farming ain't really viable here in al. Dude, just try playing in elite nordor/shyual with random pugs (sorry but aka noobs) with legendary gear? You'll just get screwed. Now I don't even do runs enless I'm with guild mates, with the exception of jarl crate farming and malison runs.
And seeing mythics not sell at all or being not worthy is just sad. We also need some middle good items for us to farm, or how can we work our way to mythics? Sts should also raise the price of crate gear......or make em worse-low end items. Nice items selling at 300gold Is just horrible. With nice gear being so cheap, other legendary gear hold no value at all except the elite items....which aren't so "elite" at all. And merching doesn't work well when u have to undercut like a maniac so get ur items sold.
Now, it's no items farmed, no items sold, and no items bought.
P.S the introduction to archon rings were really a move in the right direction, it we be nice to make more items like That and also make other versions of elite gear more viable, such as one version gives high dmg, other adds high dex and crit, others add a lot of health, so we won't be depressed when the loot the crap version of an elite item.
I also hope the new expansion will make farming more viable.

[Hiosahaf]

Necro necro necro :3

[Wutzgood]

Lol this topic again. Same thing is happening as when the topic was originally made. A new expansion is coming out and people are saving their gold for new items and not buying old stuff. Worst time to be a seller but best to be a collector. Lots of old discontinued stuff goes for cheap this time of season. I love it.

[gibol1412]

Also, this was never an issue in Pocket Legends at Level 66/71/76 cap where you needed 100k XP to cap. Players kept buying end game pink gear right up until the next expansion. Even then when the price dropped because an abundance of old gear being sold, the items were easy to sell for the lowered price. The reason is these items were still relatively rare. There were not so many of them that nobody needed them. They were scarce enough so that there were still players who needed them.
Although in Pocket Legends maximum level is 76(almost 2 years) people still buy items and those legendary items cost alot.
In Pocket Legends I can farm items on maps. In Arcane Legends my only choice is to spend tons of platinum to open Locked Crates.
And I have question that STS can't answer. What about mythics l.36? I was have a break in game. I got money, but I don't know if I buy l.26 mythic helm and l.31 mythic armor I make a mistake...

[epicrrr]

with the number of views and responses related to this topic alone, I would recommend STS to create a new game, Economics Legends.

You sir and yourcomment cracks me up! Foundation being laid right here :)

I like how STS might intervene and do something when extremely necessary, but I think such move will hurt the game more than we think or predict.

economy legends loooooooooooooooooL