locked crate suggestion to make everybody happy (devs and players)

[Darko]

heres my simple solution...

***take the free gold from crate away
***make the chest still locked per say but not with platinum..
(With gold, 1000 to open, 5000 to open, 15000 to open, etc....I think with that way people can still grind get money and be able to open crates. ...) the current system is completely geared towards plat users as only plat users can open chests....this is completely false of what sts advertises that you can do. Everything in game without money..as opening locked crates requires money.
****keep drop rate as is though, so still rare
****more items, more items, more items.


Shouldn't locked crates have better items than elite chests as they aren't free to open?? Make the actual drop rate of locked crates lower so not so liquidated......all customers would love u for this...put platinum into pets and vanities.....not crates...

[Filthyness]

Dear darkko ,
i know AL is for the platinum users mainly BUT as it said 100 times STS needs profits too ,
no game in the world would accept losing over profits , otherwise sts and AL wouldnt be online anymore
thats why sts should balance between profits and making the game more free , it is really important
AL might lose all the old player that have been playing since 6-7 months

[Rare]

I'm guessing crates are at last 75% of the revenue in al. Maybe more.

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[Energizeric]

Hey Darko, the other main issue here is that you would be making even more gold sinks than now exist. As was discussed in the other thread on the economy, one of the main issues harming the economy is the shrinking supply of gold. We need to expand the gold supply, not shrink it.

I know it seems as if giving gold to those who spend plat (opening crates & buying gold for plat) is unfair and favors plat spenders, but once those players spend the gold on items, it causes an influx of gold into the economy. That is what is needed to get things moving. The big issue at hand though is to find other ways to get gold into the economy. One good way which was suggested in the other thread is for them to increase gold drops in dungeons. I think that alone would do a ton of good.

As far as trying to make the game "fair" for those who don't spend plat, I don't know if you an ever accomplish that and still have the game be profitable. Nobody is going to spend tons of plat if it doesn't give them some kind of significant advantage. 15 plat for a vanity item that some players buy is not enough for the game to be profitable. It needs way more than that. Other than charging a monthly fee for everyone to play (like WoW), I don't really see any other way. Whether it be locked crates, or be OP elixirs like they have in PL, or turnstyle dungeons where they charge plat for each run, it has to be something that gives a big advantage or else nobody is going to spend very much plat on it.

It's the sad reality of a "free to play" style game. Those who spend real money will always have an advantage. What is good about AL is that any item that can comes out of a locked crate can still be purchased with gold that can be earned in the game. We just need to make earning that gold a little easier for those who put the time in.

[Darko]

I like ur suggestion energ....more gold will help drive down prices.. I mean when u look at the difference between noble of will and mythic armor of warrior, 50 more health just doesnt justify the 10 million more price tag...there's also an idea of increasing plat to gold ratio. . 89.99= 1500 plat = 1.7 million which to me is ubserdly low and can maybe get u one item...for example another sts game is 89.99= 2000 plat...I look at how much ive spebt in pl, than sl, and now al, and al is by far higher, its mot even close....arcane and mythic should drop from bosses at same low rate...profits?? Smh....they will be losing this high spending player(not quiting, just playing for free) if things don't change quickly. ..just my thoughts

[jackbob1]

if they just opened for 5-15k they WOULD be losing profit. i mean u would be getting some of the best gear for 10x lower than what they are in cs or just overall. it should be 5-8 plat 15 i agree is a lot of plat and they should definitely expand the items you get in a locked crate. i have opened 20 locked crates i mean not that much but in 5-10 of them i got radiant armor of savvy worth 20k it is your risk also to open them and spend ur plat....

[Darko]

500 plat = 500k gold..., that's 33 crates. ..that chances od u getting anything worth 500k is slim to none now...because the amounts of items are very limited and liquidated in al...and spending 15k for a 150g riposte is not gaining profit, its still a risk...and agaon lowering droo rates of crates would still make it more meaningful....when it comes to economy though its up to us....the first ever arcane was 2.5 million, than the s econd arcane came in at 20 million. ...which set a precedence....if us as players make a guidleline for pricing we can help change thr astronimical pricing... 55 milkion for arcane hammer ? I mean really? That's like 2k in real money

[Energizeric]

I don't think adding gold to the economy will drive down prices, but it will make it so that more players have enough gold to buy expensive items.

Let's use a real life example of how AL's economy currently exists:

Imagine if most people lived in a dirty old apartment in the projects, and then the only nicer homes that existed were big estates that cost $10m+. Who in their right mind would work hard hoping to move up in the world. $10m is an impossible amount that most people realize they will never earn in a lifetime. So why even try then....

But now if nicer apartments existed, and maybe cheaper houses, then people are more motivated to work hard and move up in the world. You need small incremental rewards for success. The "noble" gear and other "elite pinks" were supposed to be that. But the cheap crate pinks have stats almost as good for 2% of the price, and those cheap items have made it so that anyone can play for 2 days and make enough gold to afford them.

Unfortunately, once you have achieved everything you see as possible in a game, it fast becomes boring to continue playing. Having the items be more rare is what actually keeps it interesting. I know everyone wants things to be easier, but that's not the answer. When you want those items, of course you want them to be easier to obtain. But once you obtain everything you want, the game will become boring very fast.

Instead, the solution to keeping things interesting is to make the game have small incremental steps that reward each level of success. So perhaps when you start playing you initially can only have green or purple gear. Then after playing for a couple of weeks you can now afford the cheapest pink items. Then after working hard for another few weeks, you can afford the regular pinks. And then after playing for a couple of months, now maybe the elite pinks are within your grasp. And play for another month or two and now you can afford your first mythic item, etc. There should always be something better out there. Nobody should have all the best items. If someone does, then those items are too common and there needs to be some items that are more rare, exclusive and more expensive. That is just my opinion and is the kind of game I prefer to play.

But in general, it has to be easier for us to get to the next level of achievement. The problem isn't the high prices of mythic or arcane items. The problem is that with the way the current farming system is, it would take me farming 10 hours per day for 10 years to save up enough gold to buy another arcane item. In PL it took me 3 months to save up enough gold (26m) to afford my first dragon set last year. But most days I saw progress. I'd farm for 3 hours and I'd have 80k or 100k to show for it. Now in AL you can farm for 3 hours and actually lose money. It's really that bad.

So my main point is this.... I don't care if plat spenders are going to be the ones to loot the arcane and mythic items in crates. That's fine to me. But I want a way that is within my ability to be able to save up enough gold to be the guy who buys that arcane or mythic item from them after they loot it. I don't mind if it takes me some time to get there, but it has to be possible. A couple of months ago it was very possible. Right now it isn't.

[Rare]

more gold will help drive down prices..

I'd have to disagree with this. In fact, I believe the opposite will happen. In the short term, yes, more money and prices will stay about the same. But as people's pockets are lined, the value of their gear will go up because the value of gold will go down.

Pocket legends was a perfect example of this. Look at how the prices of gear inflated from ao3 to bsm.

More gold into the economy is in no way going to lower prices or make it easier for people to buy things. In the short term, yes. 6 months down the road we'll be talking about the same thing.

There are two things that can be done to bring the economy back.

1. Make farming more viable. Without farming how can a game like this even continue to live?
2. Moderate the sale of sellable items. In a truly free market system like in these games, there is no real way to stop the divide between the haves and have nots.

But what you can do is ensure the have nots have an opportunity to be successful.

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[stackz]

you know how I know darko hasnt studied economics in general?

because of the whole "inject more gold" argument. I mean just look at the real world economy. you keep adding in more money to the point people can increase their own baseline cost of living and inflation happens. yeah, real quick there's the chance for everyone to be happy but then all the spendable wealth drives up baseline prices and then people are unhappy again lol.

suddenly 100 health potions no longer cost $1500 gold in the store...they cost $5k. suddenly your extra wealth is worthless as there's billionaires running around driving up prices....or reverse inflation occurs and everything goes to crap.

yeah, end gamers that arent trust fund kids spending daddy's money on plat are miffed they cant get their fix on immediately (everyone wants the best toys haha). but you gotta remember, this game was voted best MMPORG of 2012 meaning its at the top of all the game app lists with newbs joining all the time. they come in and play casually and everything is out of control, they will quit. then the game sequesters and festers and dies slowly.

I really really really hate to say it but it needs to stay the way it is. yeah it sucks when I'm trying to figure out what to do with my plat when I know its like winning the powerball to get a mythic item but it is what it is...and my luck is really bad haha.

[falmear]

Adding more gold will cause prices to go up. Its called inflation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

"Economists generally agree that high rates of inflation and hyperinflation are caused by an excessive growth of the money supply."

I agree that people need to earn more gold but also the effort/reward needs to be there. Just adding a bunch of easy gold isn't going to solve anything.

[ShadowGunX]

all plat rich ppl can become rich in AL (irrespective of character's lvl) by opening hundreds of crates nd getting mythic at every 20-50crated opened (average).

[vholt]

Honestly, charging plat for crates, is not something i mind at all. If it pays STS i'm not complaining. Think of it kind of like "donations" or paying to support the game's development and developers. If i have a band i like, i support by buying their albums and songs. Since AL is free-to-play you support STS by buying plat.

Anywho, charging plat for crates isn't too big of a deal. It doesn't make AL a pay-to-win game.

I know, you're thinking: "Hey, you can get exclusive gear from those crates that give an advantage, so yeah, technically it is pay-to-win."

I disagree. If STS made it that you could buy mythic gears and such directly through plat then, it is pay-to-win. Pets are kind of leaning towards this however, but it's not a HUGE difference. Going on, mythics can be obtainable through in-game currency or gold. It is a lot, but it's exhibit A on keeping paying players and free players equal opportunity.

Just a short poke at why plat-spenders don't have a major unfair advantage at non-plat-spenders.

Coming back to crates: i agree with the whole keep plat on vanities and those types of things. But crates can go in that category with vanities. They both aren't NEEDED to play or be successful in the game.

Again going back to the plat-spending = unfair advantage? The only advantage is getting certain gears, presumably, sooner, than racking up gold. So it's not the exclusive ability to conquer in the game; Plat-spenders just wanna take the lazy route, and trust me.. The lazy route is very convincing.

[vholt]

Regarding the economy, i agree with the idea that Energizeric suggested about higher gold drops, to have more people buying, but also combined with what Aedenos suggest and that is to make farming more viable. With more of the preferred gears dropping just a little more frequently. More supply => Prices will go lower, with more gold drops: more buyers => more demand => Less Supply, but since farming would be viable.. You get the point

[Alfai]

Enough with the radiant gears from locked crates, or frozen heart charm of riposte...seriously for plat users they deserved slightly better gears.its ok to make arcane and mhytic rare but not give them junks from the pink batch.

A bunch of people I know left simply coz they are dissapointed after spending lotsa cash opening hundreds of crates just to make a collection of radiant srts.fair enough for profit reason think most people would be aware of that in their right mind.but the value offering upon gettinf players to invest has to be at least something that's worth it.people might still go for opening hundreds of crates should they get decent gears.at least it can be sold for gold to fund for mhytic or arcane since these are rare.you got pretty active economy activities goin on there too.

My 2 cents.

[Energizeric]

you know how I know darko hasnt studied economics in general?

because of the whole "inject more gold" argument. I mean just look at the real world economy. you keep adding in more money to the point people can increase their own baseline cost of living and inflation happens. yeah, real quick there's the chance for everyone to be happy but then all the spendable wealth drives up baseline prices and then people are unhappy again lol.

suddenly 100 health potions no longer cost $1500 gold in the store...they cost $5k. suddenly your extra wealth is worthless as there's billionaires running around driving up prices....or reverse inflation occurs and everything goes to crap.

yeah, end gamers that arent trust fund kids spending daddy's money on plat are miffed they cant get their fix on immediately (everyone wants the best toys haha). but you gotta remember, this game was voted best MMPORG of 2012 meaning its at the top of all the game app lists with newbs joining all the time. they come in and play casually and everything is out of control, they will quit. then the game sequesters and festers and dies slowly.

I really really really hate to say it but it needs to stay the way it is. yeah it sucks when I'm trying to figure out what to do with my plat when I know its like winning the powerball to get a mythic item but it is what it is...and my luck is really bad haha.

What you say would be correct if it was a free market economy. But STS still has price controls in place. 100 health potions will not go up in price, they will always cost $1500 gold unless STS changes this. Cost of feeding your pet will stay what it is. The fees to sell items in the auction will stay the same. And since you do not pay rent or have to feed your toon, there is no "cost of living". There is only cost of gear.

You cannot increase the supply of gear and at the same time make farming more viable. Increasing the supply of gear (making it drop more often) will lower the prices that gear can be sold for, and thus farming for those items will not be more viable. The only way to make farming more viable without making gear drop in value is to increase gold drops. This may result in prices for gear rising, but since cost of feeding your pet and buying potions will remain the same, farming will become more viable.

[vholt]

What you say would be correct if it was a free market economy. But STS still has price controls in place. 100 health potions will not go up in price, they will always cost $1500 gold unless STS changes this. Cost of feeding your pet will stay what it is. The fees to sell items in the auction will stay the same. And since you do not pay rent or have to feed your toon, there is no "cost of living". There is only cost of gear.

You cannot increase the supply of gear and at the same time make farming more viable. Increasing the supply of gear (making it drop more often) will lower the prices that gear can be sold for, and thus farming for those items will not be more viable. The only way to make farming more viable without making gear drop in value is to increase gold drops. This may result in prices for gear rising, but since cost of feeding your pet and buying potions will remain the same, farming will become more viable.

Oh, i must've misunderstood. When he said "make farming more viable" i thought he meant increase chances of gear drops. Never mind me then

[Rare]

Oh, i must've misunderstood. When he said "make farming more viable" i thought he meant increase chances of gear drops. Never mind me then

I did. Making farming more viable means more people can effectively farm. This will increase the player base, increase the amount of gear present in game, lower prices of said gear, and allow a more stable population to exist. Yes, to the rich this will not be a great idea because prices will fall. But that's ok, there are STILL mythic and arcane to strive for. Prices don't need to bottom out. Indirectly, this would increase chances of gear drops because more people would be farming. More people would be selling, more people would be buying. That's what the game needs. Not a band aid inflation that will cause the same problems further down the road.

You see, some people only think farming is viable if they can make absurd amounts of gold merching. I look at it from a developer/player stand point. More happy players mean more stable population and more stable income for sts. There is a reason pocket legends survived as long as it did. And it took two years before we saw prices of any gear reach levels that we saw in al in 6 months.

Oh, and this IS a free market economy. Nobody controls any prices of loot sales. Other than the population. There is no regulation or anti trust. I think some people don't understand what free market is. Gold sinks have nothing to do with whether it is a free market economy.

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[Rare]

Adding more gold will cause prices to go up. Its called inflation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

"Economists generally agree that high rates of inflation and hyperinflation are caused by an excessive growth of the money supply."

I agree that people need to earn more gold but also the effort/reward needs to be there. Just adding a bunch of easy gold isn't going to solve anything.

This is exactly correct

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[anibiag]

If you have gold, you may always buy item that you want, problems? If you don't have enough gold to buy mythic or arcane, it means you don't have enough gold to have mythic or arcane, and I dont want to see many people with such items only because they are lucky.
In fact you suggest converting locked crates to elite golden warchests.
So I don't undertstand how it should make everyone happy.
Crates also give sts giant profit, so, its impossible anyway.

[Syylent]

I don't think adding gold to the economy will drive down prices, but it will make it so that more players have enough gold to buy expensive items.

Let's use a real life example of how AL's economy currently exists:

Imagine if most people lived in a dirty old apartment in the projects, and then the only nicer homes that existed were big estates that cost $10m+. Who in their right mind would work hard hoping to move up in the world. $10m is an impossible amount that most people realize they will never earn in a lifetime. So why even try then....

But now if nicer apartments existed, and maybe cheaper houses, then people are more motivated to work hard and move up in the world. You need small incremental rewards for success. The "noble" gear and other "elite pinks" were supposed to be that. But the cheap crate pinks have stats almost as good for 2% of the price, and those cheap items have made it so that anyone can play for 2 days and make enough gold to afford them.

Unfortunately, once you have achieved everything you see as possible in a game, it fast becomes boring to continue playing. Having the items be more rare is what actually keeps it interesting. I know everyone wants things to be easier, but that's not the answer. When you want those items, of course you want them to be easier to obtain. But once you obtain everything you want, the game will become boring very fast.

Instead, the solution to keeping things interesting is to make the game have small incremental steps that reward each level of success. So perhaps when you start playing you initially can only have green or purple gear. Then after playing for a couple of weeks you can now afford the cheapest pink items. Then after working hard for another few weeks, you can afford the regular pinks. And then after playing for a couple of months, now maybe the elite pinks are within your grasp. And play for another month or two and now you can afford your first mythic item, etc. There should always be something better out there. Nobody should have all the best items. If someone does, then those items are too common and there needs to be some items that are more rare, exclusive and more expensive. That is just my opinion and is the kind of game I prefer to play.

But in general, it has to be easier for us to get to the next level of achievement. The problem isn't the high prices of mythic or arcane items. The problem is that with the way the current farming system is, it would take me farming 10 hours per day for 10 years to save up enough gold to buy another arcane item. In PL it took me 3 months to save up enough gold (26m) to afford my first dragon set last year. But most days I saw progress. I'd farm for 3 hours and I'd have 80k or 100k to show for it. Now in AL you can farm for 3 hours and actually lose money. It's really that bad.

So my main point is this.... I don't care if plat spenders are going to be the ones to loot the arcane and mythic items in crates. That's fine to me. But I want a way that is within my ability to be able to save up enough gold to be the guy who buys that arcane or mythic item from them after they loot it. I don't mind if it takes me some time to get there, but it has to be possible. A couple of months ago it was very possible. Right now it isn't.

A games economy has never equaled that of real life. One is pixels one isn't.

This game is no exception. In a game one can hit the switch, rl one can't.

Darko is right though.. getting crap in a 15 plat crate is ludicrous.

[Rare]

A games economy has never equaled that of real life. One is pixels one isn't.

This game is no exception. In a game one can hit the switch, rl one can't.

Darko is right though.. getting crap in a 15 plat crate is ludicrous.

It doesn't matter though. Your choices are either you get "crap" or you get nothing. If it's not nothing, it will become crap at the rate crates are opened.

Just to throw this out there... I opened about 35 crates and have made over 700k off what I received. One of those being mccraw egg (best item I got). So I'll say 450k off 34 crates and still selling.

So maybe we need to define "crap"

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[Syylent]

It doesn't matter though. Your choices are either you get "crap" or you get nothing. If it's not nothing, it will become crap at the rate crates are opened.

Just to throw this out there... I opened about 35 crates and have made over 700k off what I received. One of those being mccraw egg (best item I got). So I'll say 450k off 34 crates and still selling.

So maybe we need to define "crap"

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I opened around maybe 5 crates up to one point. I decided to open one more and got "crap". I got mad and decided the heck with it I will spend the last 15 plat and forget it. Out popped the maul. I sold it and promptly got scammed by a close ig friend for close to 10 mill. He is no longer an ig friend. I got to farm him the other night in pvp - was nice (he was even 2 lvls higher). I gave a bunch of the rest of the gold away to friends. My response to those close AL friends was "it is just pixels". I still get teased about it today from guildies. It makes me laugh.

At that point I was probably one of the richest in AL if not "the" richest.

I have opened maybe 10 crates since then. All crap I mean garbage. 150 plat for garden utensils and housing decor.

I still say I agree with darko.. crap should not come from a locked chest. This is a game not a life. Blues and white are worse than crap.. One thing they may do is lower the variance between whites and pinks, well maybe blues and pinks.

[wolf17]

Shouldn't locked crates have better items than elite chests as they aren't free to open?? Make the actual drop rate of locked crates lower so not so liquidated......all customers would love u for this...put platinum into pets and vanities.....not crates...
Elite chest are much more rare since it will ONLY drop for players running elite maps. Crates can drop anywhere, anytime. It would not be good for pinks just popping up everywhere, and then many pinks would be worthless.