Feedback Request: No more Elite Dungeons

[Swede]

A crazy idea but I've been thinking about it for a while now. I'd like to either remove the current Elite Dungeons, or at the very least stop making new ones for the future expansions. There would still be Elite dungeons but more in the style of the Gladiator Arena and 'raid' style dungeons, rather than copies of the 'Normal' dungeons.

But what about the loot?!

The Elite Warchests, bronze, silver and gold, would all be moved to the 'Normal' dungeons. They would have a lower chance to drop in the 'Normal' dungeons than they currently do in the Elite dungeons, since those can be cleared much faster.

In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

But why?!


Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.
You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game
Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.


Thoughts and feedback/suggestions welcome!

[Linkincena]

Agree with the idea Swede...
Go ahead with implementation plz..

[vholt]

Yes great idea! Maybe move to general discussion to get more people to see?

[Aplyed]

awww no more elite , I like the struggles lol

[Syylent]

I like. For a mobile game it is starting to push the boundaries of not so mobile. I like being able to pick it up and put it down at any point in time. Not having to spend an hour or two and be devoted or start falling behind.. For awhile it seemed like this was the path you were going down. Still is a little more time consuming then what I would picture for a mobile game.

[octavos]

Aslong as the normal maps dont become ELITE and slowly become like endgame PL...then thats fine. At the moment Normal maps help the casual and normal player that dont want the elite status and still want to play and level accordingly without much stress.

I always wanted to do elite..but here some of my reasons I HATE it.


Potsink, and burning tons of gold
Groups leave, they cant invest hours to kill 1 boss for hours
to many deaths
very little benefits to ELITE maps
best endgame gears still have troubles


Now I beg you dont change the difficulty to normal maps. I understand you guys wanna focus on better things..but I still prefer the enemies damages at lower levels.

:ghost:

[FluffNStuff]

This is a tricky one. In ~theory~, I loved the idea of the elite dungeons because it reuses old content in a new way. One of the limitations of PL is once you hit the cap you were stuck farming on the same board over and over. The Elite Dungeons gave players a change of pace for some variety, and since it reuses content that is already there I thought it was pretty brilliant and easy to maintain. That of course is all theory. Now for reality.
I missed the Second level cap, but apparently all the players were still farming Jarl and just ignoring the new content because it was that much easier.
Patch that up by making the previous ones only give drops up to one level before, and STILL players are just farming Jarl ... well because it was easier.
Patch that up by making the first ones only go to 26.
So now what we have is an entire area out of play, two where the chests only go up to regular level and players SCATTERED all over the place. Got us a problem that needs some fixing. Hmm, scrap the system, or find (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89261-The-Party-System) a better (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89931-Parties-that-can-be-joined) a way to get those scattered players into games with each other. Yeah, I got nothing either :)

[wvhills]

I love this idea. I'm all for doing away with elites. Another thing I would like to see is having the occasional pink drop at the boss. The disadvantage of chests is we can never see what other people get. In PL if I saw someone got a pink it would make me want to keep playing because I know "they're dropping". We don't have that in AL. I understand why u have crates (and I LOVE that ur primary way of generating revenue is not game play changing elixirs) but Idk why we have to have chests at all. I realize people just starting out can sell them but they could sell the pinks they get just as well.

So in summary: I say do away with elites, keep crates but get rid of chests and make pinks drop able so we can see what others are getting.

[Swede]

Now I beg you dont change the difficulty to normal maps. I understand you guys wanna focus on better things..but I still prefer the enemies damages at lower levels.
:ghost:

Absolutely not. Any Elite bosses that would appear in 'Normal' dungeons would be clearly marked as 'Elite' and have short aggro ranges so they could easily be skipped. We do not want to make the 'Normal' dungeons harder because as others mention, the whole idea is that you should be able to play for 5-10 minutes and feel like you accomplished something. Our Elite dungeons are becoming so difficult that it's hard to find players to run them and when you do, it's often a 20+ minute adventure, which is rough on a mobile game.

[Frday]

My first reaction was to think no way could that work. Then I reread and saw that you mentioned 'raid' style elite dungeons instead of copies of the Normal maps, so I guess my feedback depends on what you have in mind by that. Similar to the Arena and Mines or something else you could elaborate on? I'm all for more variety in gameplay though so count me as a cautiously optimistic yes.

Side note: Glad to hear you are open to considering major changes like this, my favorite AL update so far was when you reweighted secondary stats. Sounds like you could be on to something equally interesting here.

[tramtamtam]

me like it :D

[octavos]

Absolutely not. Any Elite bosses that would appear in 'Normal' dungeons would be clearly marked as 'Elite' and have short aggro ranges so they could easily be skipped. We do not want to make the 'Normal' dungeons harder because as others mention, the whole idea is that you should be able to play for 5-10 minutes and feel like you accomplished something. Our Elite dungeons are becoming so difficult that it's hard to find players to run them and when you do, it's often a 20+ minute adventure, which is rough on a mobile game.

AMEN, its just that there is "MANY" times i just feel like playing a map...and not constantly dead from 2 hits. I understand AL will get harder as time goes on which I hope our armors, weapons, and skills will compensate for each change. Im not elite by any means..but thats whats keeps me playing, is the ease of accomplishment.

Then you have my vote..might help to make poll here so ppl who dont respond..can just click a button XD

[Carapace]

I love this idea. I'm all for doing away with elites. Another thing I would like to see is having the occasional pink drop at the boss. The disadvantage of chests is we can never see what other people get. In PL if I saw someone got a pink it would make me want to keep playing because I know "they're dropping". We don't have that in AL. I understand why u have crates (and I LOVE that ur primary way of generating revenue is not game play changing elixirs) but Idk why we have to have chests at all. I realize people just starting out can sell them but they could sell the pinks they get just as well.

So in summary: I say do away with elites, keep crates but get rid of chests and make pinks drop able so we can see what others are getting.

The problem here is inherent in the system of luck. With re-rolls wanting to roll upwards, those pinks would actually drop quite a lot and flood the market. We all know what happens when we have too many pinks of a certain type loose in the game... *cough* crates. ;)

Gameplay wise it would be nice to do this, but it would ultimately trivialize it. The benefit of having crate and chests is that the re-roll applies only to the initial drop, and then we have a better control of loot within the chests themselves.

[Taejo]

I can't say I like this idea 100%. It's good in theory, but there are a few other solutions to the core problem with current elite maps. The idea of rare spawns with good loot tables is a fabulous idea - this correlates with the solutions of making "trash mobs" in elite maps more desirable to kill. Add more gold drops, more rare egg drops, more rare gear drops to these trash mobs, and the incentive of spawning a rare boss when killing X amount of these trash mobs.


Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.

The other solution, which I believe you (Swede) mentioned in another thread, is tinkering with the party system in elite maps. If we could invite people mid-way through the map, a lot of problems would be solved.

The older elite maps (pre-Kraken) are only desirable to farm eggs - nothing else. Perhaps make this a more level-tiered incentive to younger players. Let level 15s run elite forest (scaled down to them of course) for special L15 gear. Let L31s continue to farm it if they want Kettle.


I like. For a mobile game it is starting to push the boundaries of not so mobile. I like being able to pick it up and put it down at any point in time. Not having to spend an hour or two and be devoted or start falling behind.. For awhile it seemed like this was the path you were going down. Still is a little more time consuming then what I would picture for a mobile game.

There has to be something for hardcore gamers, otherwise the fanbase would dwindle down to casual players who aren't dedicated, aren't spending money, and eventually move on to other games because the lack of a challenge. I love elite maps because they take some teamwork and effort. I would not play this game if it was so simple to accomplish everything. Not to mention, this game should be considered a hybrid, not exclusively "mobile". Players can use a computer (like I do) or a tablet.


In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

Hmm, is the arena really that popular? Once the achievements are done, most of my in-game friends find no reasons to go back. The loot (Noble chest pieces) and a rare chance at a chest at the end aren't worth the effort. If you guys had introduced new loot, then it would be a different story.

[Wowsome]

This would be awesome, Swede. 100% like.

PS - I love to see how players' feedback is received recently! :).

[wvhills]

The problem here is inherent in the system of luck. With re-rolls wanting to roll upwards, those pinks would actually drop quite a lot and flood the market. We all know what happens when we have too many pinks of a certain type loose in the game... *cough* crates. ;)

Gameplay wise it would be nice to do this, but it would ultimately trivialize it. The benefit of having crate and chests is that the re-roll applies only to the initial drop, and then we have a better control of loot within the chests themselves.

oh, gotcha. good reason. :)

[Rare]

This sounds like a great idea. With the addition of allowing randoms to fill up extra spots it could be very nice. Also, getting rid of the ruined ribs from most maps. Or at least allowing people to join even if the timer had started.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Uzii]

Hmm, is the arena really that popular? Once the achievements are done, most of my in-game friends find no reasons to go back. The loot (Noble chest pieces) and a rare chance at a chest at the end aren't worth the effort. If you guys had introduced new loot, then it would be a different story.

I find arena as very good farming place recently. made some gold in there, even with buying pots.
and i like the challenge there its not easy but also not so hard (except bloodhammer) u need to be always cautious. but can be just me... new loot would be nice though.

and abt changes i like them very. i dont run elite maps, too much time consuming and no reward. if no arena i wouldnt be playing probably till next cap.

[Swede]

I love this idea. I'm all for doing away with elites. Another thing I would like to see is having the occasional pink drop at the boss. The disadvantage of chests is we can never see what other people get. In PL if I saw someone got a pink it would make me want to keep playing because I know "they're dropping". We don't have that in AL. I understand why u have crates (and I LOVE that ur primary way of generating revenue is not game play changing elixirs) but Idk why we have to have chests at all. I realize people just starting out can sell them but they could sell the pinks they get just as well.

So in summary: I say do away with elites, keep crates but get rid of chests and make pinks drop able so we can see what others are getting.

Carapace explains why this is a problem, further up.

However, a spot where this wouldn't be a problem is on rare bosses. In that case the boss himself is rare instead but if you do kill him, he always drop Legendary loot, and so we wouldn't need Warchests.

[Darko]

Great idea, poor repetitive equipment, need more diversity of equip. ...

[Energizeric]

This is a great idea. I really do miss the whole aspect of farming for twink gear which was such a big part of Pocket Legends. I spent so much time in PL farming for those rare level 5 & 15 recipes, and the sand caves gear. We would do this with our end game characters. Yes, it was easy, but it provided a nice casual way to farm by yourself or with a buddy without needing a whole party of pro end gamers, and you could loot some of the best gear on rare occasion. Just make sure the best gear drops (or elite chests) are very rare, and the price of those items will not suffer. You don't want players complaining that their twink items were worth 100k and now are selling for 2k because they fall from Jarl like rain.

With the way the elite dungeons have been so far, my first big complaint is that all the gear becomes discontinued. Nobody can ever loot a level 16 flamestrike rod again. I don't think it should be that way. (I'm sure those who have a stash of these discontinued items will disagree for personal reasons LOL)

Anyone who knows me, knows that I always lobby in favor of having very rare gear that's almost impossible to loot and cost a fortune to buy. But I have never been in favor of gear being discontinued. I suppose it's nice to have certain stuff be discontinued like certain holiday gear, and plat stuff like vanities or stuff from plat chests like the founders/forerunner gear. But the regular elite gear from each campaign should still be available to be looted.

So here is my suggestion:

1) Have the original campaign be for level 1-16 as it was originally intended. For this campaign, make it so we can sell the elite chests. And make those elite chests drop level 15/16 elite gear. No need for the level 20/21/25 versions of these items. Yes, I suppose these level 20/21/25 items would be discontinued if this change was made (the level 20/21 versions are already discontinued), but I don't see a problem there.

2) Have the Dead City campaign be for level 20/21 items as was originally intended. Discontinue the "Elite Banded II Chests" and start dropping the "Elite Banded Chests" again. Yes, level 25/30 versions of these items would become discontinued, but this campaign was originally intended for level 20/21.

3) Have the Kraken Isles campaign be for level 25/26 items as was originally intended. Discontinue the "Elite Pirate II Chests" and start dropping the "Elite Pirate Chests" again. Yes, level 30 versions of these items would become discontinued, but this campaign was originally intended for level 25/26.

Now the big question is when to drop Elite Chests instead of regular Chests (and elite pink gear/eggs instead of regular pink gear/eggs). I suppose you have 3 options here:

1) Make it a percentage chance. So maybe 10% of the time you would get a regular chest, you instead get an elite chest. Same goes for "elite" gear and eggs that drop directly from bosses (items like Malison Egg or Entombed Hammer) -- maybe 10% of the time you get a pink item dropped you would instead get one of these elite items.

2) As you mentioned in your post above, perhaps make specific "elite" bosses that spawn every once in a while and exclusively drop elite chests/gear/eggs.

3) Do away with elite chests all together. Just have regular chests (copper, silver & gold) for each campaign, and make the elite items come from the regular chests at a much reduced chance (and same for the elite pink gear & eggs).


I prefer choice #3.

Or you could use choice #1 for the four previous campaigns since you probably don't want to start redesigning those old dungeons to add new "elite" bosses. And then perhaps #2 would be a good idea going forward for future campaigns.

Or you could use some combination of these choices. Like maybe #1 for older campaigns, then use #1 & #2 for future campaigns. So regular bosses will drop elite chests at a reduced rate, but then there will be elite bosses that have a rare chance to spawn, and they will exclusively drop elite chests/gear. You could get creative with this going forward.

But I must stress, be VERY CAREFUL to make sure to keep the elite gear RARE. Because making it easy to run these dungeons (no more "elite" dungeons) has the chance to cause an overflow of elite gear on the market and cause prices to plummet, and we all know where that leads (as was discussed in the other thread on the economy).


PS: I'm gonna have to start charging you guys (STS) for these ideas. Haha!

[Syylent]

There has to be something for hardcore gamers, otherwise the fanbase would dwindle down to casual players who aren't dedicated, aren't spending money, and eventually move on to other games because the lack of a challenge. I love elite maps because they take some teamwork and effort. I would not play this game if it was so simple to accomplish everything. Not to mention, this game should be considered a hybrid, not exclusively "mobile". Players can use a computer (like I do) or a tablet.


I believe he did mention an elite style dungeon which the hardcore games could go hang out in. Seriously though how many times do you run Brackenridge on elite mode? There is probably one or two maps that hardcores would run until their eyes bleed. There is nothing wrong with that at all. You always have to accommodate them. Keep a arena elite dungeon for them or heck even two sound wonderful. It looks as though they realize they need to keep both sides happy.

Still a normal gamer will never progress to that as it stand now.. sans luck.

[Taejo]

This is a great idea. I really do miss the whole aspect of farming for twink gear which was such a big part of Pocket Legends. I spent so much time in PL farming for those rare level 5 & 15 recipes, and the sand caves gear. We would do this with our end game characters. Yes, it was easy, but it provided a nice casual way to farm by yourself or with a buddy without needing a whole party of pro end gamers, and you could loot some of the best gear on rare occasion. Just make sure the best gear drops (or elite chests) are very rare, and the price of those items will not suffer. You don't want players complaining that their twink items were worth 100k and now are selling for 2k because they fall from Jarl like rain.

With the way the elite dungeons have been so far, my first big complaint is that all the gear becomes discontinued. Nobody can ever loot a level 16 flamestrike rod again. I don't think it should be that way. (I'm sure those who have a stash of these discontinued items will disagree for personal reasons LOL)

Anyone who knows me, knows that I always lobby in favor of having very rare gear that's almost impossible to loot and cost a fortune to buy. But I have never been in favor of gear being discontinued. I suppose it's nice to have certain stuff be discontinued like certain holiday gear, and plat stuff like vanities or stuff from plat chests like the founders/forerunner gear. But the regular elite gear from each campaign should still be available to be looted.

So here is my suggestion:

1) Have the original campaign be for level 1-16 as it was originally intended. For this campaign, make it so we can sell the elite chests. And make those elite chests drop level 15/16 elite gear. No need for the level 20/21/25 versions of these items. Yes, I suppose these level 20/21/25 items would be discontinued if this change was made (the level 20/21 versions are already discontinued), but I don't see a problem there.

2) Have the Dead City campaign be for level 20/21 items as was originally intended. Discontinue the "Elite Banded II Chests" and start dropping the "Elite Banded Chests" again. Yes, level 25/30 versions of these items would become discontinued, but this campaign was originally intended for level 20/21.

3) Have the Kraken Isles campaign be for level 25/26 items as was originally intended. Discontinue the "Elite Pirate II Chests" and start dropping the "Elite Pirate Chests" again. Yes, level 30 versions of these items would become discontinued, but this campaign was originally intended for level 25/26.

Now the big question is when to drop Elite Chests instead of regular Chests (and elite pink gear/eggs instead of regular pink gear/eggs). I suppose you have 3 options here:

1) Make it a percentage chance. So maybe 10% of the time you would get a regular chest, you instead get an elite chest. Same goes for "elite" gear and eggs that drop directly from bosses (items like Malison Egg or Entombed Hammer) -- maybe 10% of the time you get a pink item dropped you would instead get one of these elite items.

2) As you mentioned in your post above, perhaps make specific "elite" bosses that spawn every once in a while and exclusively drop elite chests/gear/eggs.

3) Do away with elite chests all together. Just have regular chests (copper, silver & gold) for each campaign, and make the elite items come from the regular chests at a much reduced chance (and same for the elite pink gear & eggs).


I prefer choice #3.

Or you could use choice #1 for the four previous campaigns since you probably don't want to start redesigning those old dungeons to add new "elite" bosses. And then perhaps #2 would be a good idea going forward for future campaigns.

Or you could use some combination of these choices. Like maybe #1 for older campaigns, then use #1 & #2 for future campaigns. So regular bosses will drop elite chests at a reduced rate, but then there will be elite bosses that have a rare chance to spawn, and they will exclusively drop elite chests/gear. You could get creative with this going forward.

But I must stress, be VERY CAREFUL to make sure to keep the elite gear RARE. Because making it easy to run these dungeons (no more "elite" dungeons) has the chance to cause an overflow of elite gear on the market and cause prices to plummet, and we all know where that leads (as was discussed in the other thread on the economy).


PS: I'm gonna have to start charging you guys (STS) for these ideas. Haha!

I agree with keeping the campaigns and gear in tiers, as I mentioned this in my post as well but not as great of detail. However, I still disagree with getting rid of elite maps all together. You can still have L15/16 non-elite and L15/16 elite tier, L20/21 non-elite and L20/21 elite tier, and so forth, making loot tables unique to each grouping. Maybe this is what you were saying? It wasn't crystal clear to me, so I apologize if it was what you were saying.

[Taejo]

I believe he did mention an elite style dungeon which the hardcore games could go hang out in. Seriously though how many times do you run Brackenridge on elite mode? There is probably one or two maps that hardcores would run until their eyes bleed. There is nothing wrong with that at all. You always have to accommodate them. Keep a arena elite dungeon for them or heck even two sound wonderful. It looks as though they realize they need to keep both sides happy.

Still a normal gamer will never progress to that as it stand now.. sans luck.

Yes, very good point. The incentives to run older elite maps is virtually gone, unless I want to farm a specific egg. I think its a complex issue on how do we revive the desire to run older maps as a level-capped player.

[falmear]

I believe he did mention an elite style dungeon which the hardcore games could go hang out in. Seriously though how many times do you run Brackenridge on elite mode? There is probably one or two maps that hardcores would run until their eyes bleed. There is nothing wrong with that at all. You always have to accommodate them. Keep a arena elite dungeon for them or heck even two sound wonderful. It looks as though they realize they need to keep both sides happy.

Still a normal gamer will never progress to that as it stand now.. sans luck.

Yes but one thing that was left out is every "arena" elite dungeon so far as some kind of plat component to it. So everyone who is agreeing to this is also agreeing that they are happy with the fact it requires some kind of plat to play these elite arenas. Right now it doesn't cost you any plat to play elite. But they will either charge you 10 plat to enter like Nordr boss brawl or force you to pay plat to regen like the Gladiator Arena. So I think this is the real motivation.

[JaytB]

I'm all for getting rid of elite maps. Easier, faster and quicker runs would definitely make me farm a whole lot more.

[Energizeric]

One other point I forgot to post in my previous post:

I think if the elite dungeons are eliminated, then the bosses in the regular dungeons should be harder, but let me qualify that....

I think the bosses should have more health and take longer to kill, but they should NOT hit harder. That way it will take a little longer to kill the boss, but you won't get one-hit by the boss which I think is what most players did not like about the elite dungeons. Because the bosses in the non-elite dungeons are really too easy right now in that they can be killed rather quickly.

In PL I am level 76, and if I go do the shadow caves or the sewers (level 50-55 dungeons) I can beat those bosses without dying, but it does take me a couple of minutes to take down the boss even though I am 20-25 levels above those dungeons.

Yet in AL if I go farm Rooks Nest (this is a level 15-16 dungeon, I am level 31) I can take down the boss in 30 seconds. I think he should have more health so it slows me down just a bit. And a level 16 player should not be able to solo that dungeon, but with a normal group of 4 level 16 players should be able to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time. And if a level 13 group tried to do this dungeon, it should be extremely difficult for them to finish without lots of deaths. So I guess the question is finding that sweet spot of how difficult each dungeon should be.

[Swede]

We would probably not touch the 'Normal' dungeons in Brackenridge and Rooks' Nest. We'd let Dead City and Kraken go up to level 31 and add in the Elite loot to them if the enemies are above, level 26 or so. Again, we don't want to make the 'Normal' dungeons harder but yeah possibly put a few more hitpoints on the level 26+ bosses to make the fights last a little longer.

And to say that we're doing this to get more money out of our players is silly. I'm trying to come up with a way to make it more enjoyable to play the game, bring people together to take advantage of the MMO aspect and make new friends, remove the barrier to get fun rewards etc. I haven't looked at the numbers but I don't think the 'hardcore' are spending more plat in the Gladiator Arena than they do in the Nordr Elites.

[Kjalisi]

I totally agree with the motivation for this move... elites are becoming a lot of work getting a good party together, and then making it through long runs. There are a few elites which can be run in a short period of time but realistically since I reached level 31 I have ignored a LARGE part of the content and just played those few short elites.

I really enjoy the arena because its a tactical game and thus way more satisfying to finish... I am of course not a big fan of bloodhammer's one hit and have so far failed to kill him at all never mind in 3 minutes but we have gotten close so its all good :)


Adding loot to normal maps, and making those normal maps scale up to cap level seems like a great idea. It might be kind of fun to go back to older maps and fight those bosses at cap level and have it be a challenge!

I also like the idea of rarer (but not TOO rare) elite boss spawns which would be difficult but a guaranteed good drop if you beat them. These elite bosses could even each have specific gear that each one dropped which would make it desirable to repeat maps in search of different elite bosses.

If this idea is implemented right I really think it has a lot of potential! Thanks for sharing! :)

[Energizeric]

We would probably not touch the 'Normal' dungeons in Brackenridge and Rooks' Nest. We'd let Dead City and Kraken go up to level 31 and add in the Elite loot to them if the enemies are above, level 26 or so. Again, we don't want to make the 'Normal' dungeons harder but yeah possibly put a few more hitpoints on the level 26+ bosses to make the fights last a little longer.

Only issue I have with scaling the normal dungeons to level is it makes it impossible to help a lower level player to level faster. For example, just last week my buddy from PL (who has now decided to play AL) was playing with his level 15 mage. I helped him run through a few dead city dungeons and we leveled him up to 17. If you made those dungeons scale up to 31 then I would have not been able to do that since he would have been killed with the higher level mobs. I know this because before doing the dead city dungeons we tried this in the tombs and he died in 2 seconds. Then I realized we needed to do this in a dungeon that does not scale.

If you don't touch the blackenridge and rooks nest dungeons, but then you scale up the dead city and kraken dungeons, then it seems you would have a big gap between rooks nest and dead city where the level of mobs would jump. I think the only way to do this in a way that fixes everything is to keep the normal dead city and kraken dungeons the way they are too and just leave them at the lower level as well. And as I mentioned, maybe start dropping those lower level elite items again.

Players farm not just for items they need, but to earn gold. So if I can farm the dead city for level 20 & 21 ALPs and level 20 & 21 demonlord armors/helms, then I will even though those are twink items and I'm level 31. Because I can sell those items in the auction and make gold which I can use to buy the items I need. I think the majority of players will do this. I know in PL there is tons of twink farming going on by end game players. There are always PUGs in the Shadow Caves, Sand Caves, and in Mount Fang.

As for my suggestion of adding more health to bosses, I meant not for scaled levels but for everyone. Right now you have the regular dungeons and then the elite versions.... I think the elites are way too hard, but the regular dungeons are a bit too easy. I like the mobs being somewhat easy, but the bosses need to be harder. But I don't like this "one hit" nonsense, especially since no class has a revive skill like in PL. So instead I think the solution is to make it harder to beat the boss by giving him more health, essentially making the boss battle take longer, but not result in everyone dying.

I think only the tombs/mines/hauntlet dungeons should scale to level.

[Obi]

I'm voting for that change to happen.

[wowdah]

I may be the only one not liking this idea. Elite makes things a challenge, and I love doing them. If the raid style dungeons were as hard as elite, then maybe.

[wrathstorm]

i love the idea and you guys can focus on better storyline, fresh character design and etc :) That's my opinion

[falmear]

I may be the only one not liking this idea. Elite makes things a challenge, and I love doing them. If the raid style dungeons were as hard as elite, then maybe.

I'm in agreement with you. I wouldn't like this because I like the challenge of elite maps and figuring out the best way to complete them in a fast time. I don't know what is challenging about the regular maps since once you have end game gear they can be cleared easily. So if this is implemented on these maps it'll be harder to come by elite chests because the drop rates will be reduced. Drop rates already suck in elite now, so how much worse it will be is only a guess. How many runs will you have to make to get an elite golden chest. 50? 100? This is why I say the real motivation is these plat arenas. Because the drop rates will have to be a lot lower for the normal maps so it will force elite players to go to these plat arenas.

[Kaytar]

Sounds like the game will be less than a hassle and more casual. Which indeed is good news.

[Alhuntrazeck]

At first I was COMPLETELY against the idea. But now I'm beginning to wonder.

AL is no longer a casual game IMHO. Elite Valheim took an unbelievable 1 hour (yes, 60 freaking minutes) to do with a decent party, 1 warrior, 2 rogues and a mage. With the removal of Elite Dungeons, AL could become more of the pick up and play game it was intended to be.

But of course there are problems.

There's the loot. Running elite maps used to be rewarding with an elite pink if you were lucky. But if they were done with, what happens? Loot moves to normal dungeons.
Either loot will become much easier to get or the normal dungeons will become harder.

That brings us to the difficulty level. Normal maps never used to drop anything very useful (with the exceptions of Ribbit, Flap Jack and Granite). With the introduction of elite maps, players had a way to access elite gear...for a price. Time. But if the normal maps are as easy as they are currently, gear will become too easy to get (remember farming Ribbit in Rook's Hideout?).

Then like Energizeric said, guiding a lower lvl player through maps will be harder.

I honestly don't know what to think. Elite maps gone will induce a casual factor to the game. Arena-style dungeons will keep the hardcore happy. But little problems like the ones I mentioned might cause roadblocks.

[Bullox]

@ Swede, thats the idea of 2013. I love it. You should get a big Bonus from your Boss :)

With that great idea you unit the pro players with the non pro players, so we all can play together again. Thats a really big deal!

[colestros]

To me, this seems really really great. Normal folk like,, us could run maps much more easily and if you're lucky, you could get elite chests right? that'd be awesome! Elite dungeons are kinda hard for some cuz of the pot uses and getting one shot killed by bosses and stuff.. this would kinda spread the luck and loot around in the game. Uh, the same guys constantly farm elites and thus always have the top tier items that people so want. Of course this is fine cuz the worked for it. You get what you work for right? but this new change could give normal guys the occasional chance to make the big bucks. Anyways overall this seems awesome:) I'd personally love to see this implemented. Whoop^

[Alhuntrazeck]

At first I was COMPLETELY against the idea. But now I'm beginning to wonder.

AL is no longer a casual game IMHO. Elite Valheim took an unbelievable 1 hour (yes, 60 freaking minutes) to do with a decent party, 1 warrior, 2 rogues and a mage. With the removal of Elite Dungeons, AL could become more of the pick up and play game it was intended to be.

But of course there are problems.

There's the loot. Running elite maps used to be rewarding with an elite pink if you were lucky. But if they were done with, what happens? Loot moves to normal dungeons.
Either loot will become much easier to get or the normal dungeons will become harder.

That brings us to the difficulty level. Normal maps never used to drop anything very useful (with the exceptions of Ribbit, Flap Jack and Granite). With the introduction of elite maps, players had a way to access elite gear...for a price. Time. But if the normal maps are as easy as they are currently, gear will become too easy to get (remember farming Ribbit in Rook's Hideout?).

Then like Energizeric said, guiding a lower lvl player through maps will be harder.

I honestly don't know what to think. Elite maps gone will induce a casual factor to the game. Arena-style dungeons will keep the hardcore happy. But little problems like the ones I mentioned might cause roadblocks.

I forgot to add something else. In the Arena (if you're removing elite maps) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEE add mythic drops from bosses! That way regular players also have a chance to get mythic, not just the plat players or grand merchants. Ofc the drop rate should be low, about as low as crates'. But with my elixirs and amulet all stacked to 70%, I should have a decent chance at one >:)

[Obi]

I forgot to add something else. In the Arena (if you're removing elite maps) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEE add mythic drops from bosses! That way regular players also have a chance to get mythic, not just the plat players or grand merchants. Ofc the drop rate should be low, about as low as crates'. But with my elixirs and amulet all stacked to 70%, I should have a decent chance at one >:)

but.. I think you can get them already from the elite gold chest that are dropped there.. yes?

[najcomp]

Dev if u say that u will remove elite and there is no elite at ydra and brackenridge.so how can we get malison?if i wrong correct me.

[Obi]

I assume that it might drop from the elite boss or monster in the normal map when you lucky enough to encounter them.

[Akaee]

Go ahead i like the idea very much

[Obi]

How about the LB for those maps then? Will you start a timer like in arena for the elite boss only (since he gets aggro)? So we could have the LB for each boss?

[najcomp]

Agree +1x100^100 for this.next update maybe?

[Krowbird]

I vote yes for this idea :eagerness:
Remove the elite maps and stop making them in future expansions.

[DexterityX]

A crazy idea but I've been thinking about it for a while now. I'd like to either remove the current Elite Dungeons, or at the very least stop making new ones for the future expansions. There would still be Elite dungeons but more in the style of the Gladiator Arena and 'raid' style dungeons, rather than copies of the 'Normal' dungeons.

But what about the loot?!

The Elite Warchests, bronze, silver and gold, would all be moved to the 'Normal' dungeons. They would have a lower chance to drop in the 'Normal' dungeons than they currently do in the Elite dungeons, since those can be cleared much faster.

In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

But why?!


Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.
You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game
Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.


Thoughts and feedback/suggestions welcome!



totally i like the idea.. AL might win again for best mobile mmo again if this happen.

the idea of making the elite boss appear on maps is good, every time he appear on the map a prompt of message will appear on screen and he will be on random area on the map so people whos interested on killing it will find and explore the map.

i hope this happen.. this would be the new era of arcane legends and i think.. i think the economy will be more balance.

[keikali]

Swede, great idea. How will you treat the loot though? Like would specific egg drops that are tied to only Elite Bosses be dropped from them only when they spawn?

[Syylent]

Yes, very good point. The incentives to run older elite maps is virtually gone, unless I want to farm a specific egg. I think its a complex issue on how do we revive the desire to run older maps as a level-capped player.


Very true mate... I know I do not have the answer. I know in the mmos that I have played since the 90's always had this issue and it was never solved. The beginning "lands" were always vacant. Just to add as I initial stated. The idea that brought me to this game was the mobile aspect. Like Swede stated in a following post 5-10 mins to accomplish something. That was my idea of a mobile app game. If they decide their business model to change from that.. that is fine.. I am not sure that is was attracted most people though.. my opinion only.

I know a lot worry about falling prices of gear. I think it is a good thing. Cept mythic and arcane should be tough. The rest I believe should be available reasonably. Right now the market is shot like most online games. A new player has virtually no chance of getting good gear without buying plat or spending hours upon hours of farming locked chests. I whoel heartedly believe gear should be accessible by all... Let the little skill/skill points involved determine the rest. Quite frankly white and blue are virtual junk. Even more increase the blue stats to be almost on par with pinks. Diversity is good.

[GoodSyntax]

I LOVE these ideas!

As I have said in other posts, if the dozen or so Friends that I farm elite maps with are not on, I often do it solo in some of the lower level elites (up through Rooks Nest). Soloing elite Jarl in 2.5 minutes is one thing, but soling Elite Bael in 20 minutes is not really much fun at all. Not only is soling elite maps a waste of time (I rarely get good drops), but it is also a waste of pots, so in the end, it's not an enjoyable activity.

Adding the random chance of an Elite Boss or Rare Spawn with guaranteed pinks is a terrific idea - kind of like the Croc from PL that always drop Hooch Hats. Perhaps, instead of guaranteed pinks, it should be 100% pink or vanity.

I also like the idea of a raid style dungeon, but I think that the end boss should be random and scaled more like an Elite++, so they are super hard to kill, maybe half as tough as Truell (the troll). This way, we can have much higher drop rates (25% chance of a pink) so there is a tangible reward and incentive to run this challenging map. It would be neat with boss specific drops, so an raid-style Elite Bael appears 5% of the time, but he give a 25% chance at Malison. Same would go for Kettle and other elite eggs.

Another good idea would be to do a raid style dungeon where "normal" bosses come in as minions - similar to Gold Mine. The boss is tough, and the "boss" minions are an annoyance/distraction. This way, you can increase your drop percentage, in that the minions have the possibility to drop crates or chests, but the Elite Boss drops the valuable items.

I have to say, I am excited about where STS is thinking about taking this game! These ideas are so much better than doing an Elite Skull Cove and having my tank disconnect just before we meet Bloodhammer.

[Jed]

The problem here is inherent in the system of luck. With re-rolls wanting to roll upwards, those pinks would actually drop quite a lot and flood the market. We all know what happens when we have too many pinks of a certain type loose in the game... *cough* crates. ;)
=get rid of crates?

I like the idea of no elite and a rare spawn. At first I thought it was a bad idea because it wouldn't really give endgamers much to do, but then I though about it more. Endgamers and others would actually have more to do and more of an incentive to run normal dungeons because every run is shorter than an elite run = you don't have to dedicate yourself to the computer/device for hours.
And I realized I liked the idea because I suck at elites anyway.

[Lipky]

+10000000000!

[Zuzeq]

I'd suggest keeping Elite Maps for the most current content only. All other points sound good to me.

[Taejo]

I'd suggest keeping Elite Maps for the most current content only. All other points sound good to me.

Hmm, not a bad idea. Maybe while doing this, in order to 'reorganize' the elite-exclusive drops from past elite maps (i.e. Malison from elite Rook's Nest), just add a rare mini-boss to normal Rook's Nest that now drops Malison. I like your suggestion, Zuzeq.

[Energizeric]

But of course there are problems.

There's the loot. Running elite maps used to be rewarding with an elite pink if you were lucky. But if they were done with, what happens? Loot moves to normal dungeons.
Either loot will become much easier to get or the normal dungeons will become harder.

The solution is to make the "elite" loot be more rare. For example, most of the elite loot comes from elite chests. So make elite chests drop from the same boss as regular chests, but make elite chests be much more rare. So maybe 10% of the time you get a chest it will be an elite chest, and the other 90% of the time it will be a regular chest.

Also, since an Elite Silver Warchest is the same color (green) as a regular Silver Warchest, re-roll elixirs will not cause more elite to drop, they will only upgrade your chest to the next best kind (copper to silver, or silver to gold). So the rarity of these elite items will be protected.

[Rain41]

A crazy idea but I've been thinking about it for a while now. I'd like to either remove the current Elite Dungeons, or at the very least stop making new ones for the future expansions. There would still be Elite dungeons but more in the style of the Gladiator Arena and 'raid' style dungeons, rather than copies of the 'Normal' dungeons.

But what about the loot?!

The Elite Warchests, bronze, silver and gold, would all be moved to the 'Normal' dungeons. They would have a lower chance to drop in the 'Normal' dungeons than they currently do in the Elite dungeons, since those can be cleared much faster.

In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

But why?!


Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.
You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game
Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.


Thoughts and feedback/suggestions welcome!

That's a great idea! Elite dungeons (as copies of normal ones) are pretty boring... If your idea makes easier the developing, it means more contents and that's all I need to listen! :P

[Taejo]

Another point that I don't see being brought up is that of what will warriors built for tanking elite maps do? How will STS balance out warriors once elite maps are gone? There will be virtually no reason to gear up/spec pure defensive for normal maps. Even now, in elite maps, warriors are not necessary to clear the instance (many people run many elite Nordr maps with just mages/rogues). I don't have a lot of time to expand upon this but thought I'd throw the thought up here for others to elaborate and discuss.

[xcainnblecterx]

Do it. If they get plat from new raid dungeons and the same gear drop in reg maps but are rarer that's fine. As it will officially be were casual players can make some gold without needing to spend 20-30mins on one map and plat players can use plat to do it quicker=win win. I'm really glad to hear you guys(Devs) are really lookin at ways to make the game more accessible to all players and bring life and joy back to al:encouragement:

[Energizeric]

Another point that I don't see being brought up is that of what will warriors built for tanking elite maps do? How will STS balance out warriors once elite maps are gone? There will be virtually no reason to gear up/spec pure defensive for normal maps. Even now, in elite maps, warriors are not necessary to clear the instance (many people run many elite Nordr maps with just mages/rogues). I don't have a lot of time to expand upon this but thought I'd throw the thought up here for others to elaborate and discuss.

As was mentioned, there will still be elite bosses which spawn on occasion in the regular maps, and there will be the raid style dungeons like the Arena which will of course still require a good tank. Plus some of the regular bosses are still pretty hard and are much easier with a tank.

[Zuzeq]

In addition, you can kiss future timed events/fair LB competention goodbye. Without the presence of elite maps how can an end gamer hang with twikie times? You'll have to revamp the LB to be devided by lvls similar to the lvl guild lines of PvP (every 3 lvls or so).

[psychoscream]

There will be 2 results :

1- actually the farming will become more fun

2- the loot drop average will drop = need to buy more plat = more people leave and
eventually AL will be not the same at ALL

[Growwle]

Add world bosses that spawn a few times a day and randomly drop high-end loot. Raids would be super cool, if they had unique content. Also, randomized normal dungeons would greatly increase replayability.

[nathan34]

Why cant we have a dungeon like kraag but every little cul de sac theres a boss and not just have one or two rules OF minnions to battle thru but throw in the jewson lots ghost pirates pirates wolfs spiders have a good tear up im getting sick of people not finishing the bosses up near stronghold

[Wowsome]

Some excellent points that I missed at first sight.


So if this is implemented on these maps it'll be harder to come by elite chests because the drop rates will be reduced. Drop rates already suck in elite now, so how much worse it will be is only a guess. How many runs will you have to make to get an elite golden chest. 50? 100?

If not done right, this could be a blow to the players in between casual and hard-core. As mentioned in some of the posts earlier, the challenge is to judge how exactly rare the elite loot should be in normal maps. Both "more rare than ideal" and "less rare than ideal" have their own pitfalls.


Another point that I don't see being brought up is that of what will warriors built for tanking elite maps do? How will STS balance out warriors once elite maps are gone? There will be virtually no reason to gear up/spec pure defensive for normal maps. Even now, in elite maps, warriors are not necessary to clear the instance (many people run many elite Nordr maps with just mages/rogues). I don't have a lot of time to expand upon this but thought I'd throw the thought up here for others to elaborate and discuss.

Without changes to gears or skills, warriors will be even more, to put it nicely, optional.


Additionally, I would probably take a happy break from the whole "cap in tombs, then gear up, then farm for loot" sequence :). I may skip capping (36000 XP or so..?) altogether.

[Taejo]

As was mentioned, there will still be elite bosses which spawn on occasion in the regular maps, and there will be the raid style dungeons like the Arena which will of course still require a good tank. Plus some of the regular bosses are still pretty hard and are much easier with a tank.

Hmm, good points Ener but still not enough reason for me to build a defensive tank. I can tank normal Nordr bosses just fine by sacrificing my defense for extra damage. My argument isn't whether or not warriors should spec defensively or offensively, just what will STS do to make us more effective all around in the game when there's not a necessity for pure tanks anymore. People don't deserve to have to spec for the "occasional" elite boss on a map, waiting for however long that may be to see one. In the meantime, being utterly ineffective in PvP or soloing. I guess if there's an arena with elite bosses, that's a reason to keep a defensive warrior in the closet and bring him out from time to time - still seems like a waste to me :/

[Alhuntrazeck]

Hmm, good points Ener but still not enough reason for me to build a defensive tank. I can tank normal Nordr bosses just fine by sacrificing my defense for extra damage. My argument isn't whether or not warriors should spec defensively or offensively, just what will STS do to make us more effective all around in the game when there's not a necessity for pure tanks anymore. People don't deserve to have to spec for the "occasional" elite boss on a map, waiting for however long that may be to see one. In the meantime, being utterly ineffective in PvP or soloing. I guess if there's an arena with elite bosses, that's a reason to keep a defensive warrior in the closet and bring him out from time to time - still seems like a waste to me :/

So true. For a long while ive been thinking of how weak mates are, now I'm wondering abt warriors. They'll lose the only reason they exist for! Devs or anyone who knows, what's going to happen here?

[Zuzeq]

Lets not get it twisted, there will always be use for a good Tank. Of course you can "tone down" the pure Tank specs for more DmG, but they will always be use for em in combat.

[Carapace]

There are a lot of concerns that are valid being mentioned here. We, and I, don't have answers for all of them, but just shooting from the hip here are some potential answers.

PLEASE NOTE AND READ THIS PART - the responses here are mostly conjectural and/or examples of ways we could potentially deal with some of the concerns being raised. In no way is any of this a promise of content or particular implementations! All of these are my opinions and thoughts, and I am sharing some insight into ways we could potentially address concerns is all.


So true. For a long while ive been thinking of how weak mates are, now I'm wondering abt warriors. They'll lose the only reason they exist for! Devs or anyone who knows, what's going to happen here?

If we go straight to just normal content, we could tweak things like damage output from enemies in normal and leave their health as is. The idea of more mobs swarming in numbers and doing more damage is a potential solution, as this would require a tank to really take that damage. Making more enemies "glass cannons" would result in some potentially threatening scenarios for solo players and overzealous groups. A good tank will always be a good tank, and will always be appreciated regardless of the zone. We want to continue to provide a reason for tanks to be relevant and fun to play.

Additionally there are also the random elite bosses we were mentioning. These would definitely require a good tank, and guild members should be able to invite friends and other players to join their map to take them out, with the benefit of knowing there will be good loot. Not having a tank for this situation could prove difficult!

As you are all quite aware, there are many implications involved with a change like this. We keep an eye out and try to account for as many of the shortcomings as we can to ensure a balanced and fun experience for everyone.


So if this is implemented on these maps it'll be harder to come by elite chests because the drop rates will be reduced. Drop rates already suck in elite now, so how much worse it will be is only a guess. How many runs will you have to make to get an elite golden chest. 50? 100?

A valid point. Drop rates would need to be reduced, but it is worth reminding everyone that these would be for high end dungeon runs only. Level 15's won't see elite chests most likely, as they only contain high level gear. With the reduction of drops, we can balance that out with things like the random elite bosses that have a chance at nice loot. Perhaps they drop two pieces of loot? One will always be a copper, silver, or gold elite chest and the other will be a pink? Depends on how rare the boss is, and this is just an example of the kinds of things we can tweak to make certain things more enticing or relevant for players looking for that risk reward.

We're very aware of this sort of problem, and we will likely devise something to keep it feeling "natural" and not punishing to the players. Overall this is a big change, and some related systems would also have to change to keep the loot machine moving along smoothly.


Why cant we have a dungeon like kraag but every little cul de sac theres a boss and not just have one or two rules OF minnions to battle thru but throw in the jewson lots ghost pirates pirates wolfs spiders have a good tear up im getting sick of people not finishing the bosses up near stronghold

We actually had something like this with the Elite Gauntlet in Nordr a month or two back. The progressive variation of that is the gladiator arena, the only difference is it doesn't define the bosses as being "Kraken Bosses" or "Nordr Bosses" specifically and introduces new combinations of challenges.

What you're describing would actually better fit as one of the "raid dungeons" we are describing as another form of content we would like to produce in the future. Would be very cool to allow these to have up to 8 players or something like that.

Ultimately we can't go ahead with anything to release until we discuss issues just like these. We really appreciate your feedback, concerns, and related thoughts to this change! Keep them coming!

[Energizeric]

All good ideas Carapace. I like where you are going with this. :)

[Taejo]

2 pieces of loot dropping? Raid dungeons? Now we're talking :) Thanks for the ideas, Carapace!

[Azepeiete]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. Oh, and no.

I basically only play for elite farming and timed records. If this happens, I quit. Bad move. I hate this idea. No no nooooooo please don't do it.

Does away with difficulty. Also, no more plat revives for you. No more plat spent on timed run challenges. No more finding good groups to fight long elites. No more deaths (plat) spent in the initial strategizing portion before running for recs. No more working for anything. No point in half the skills for every class. Pleaaaasssssee don't implement this.


All these positive responses make me think its happening. Brb selling my stuff to quit until you guys realize it's stupid. And i won't need good equipment anyway with weak normal mobs. This sucks, now all the noobs can go get the best gear. This takes away the fun of players who like a challenge, and makes it easy as cake for noobs who can't perform in elites. People complain so hard because they don't get an arcane hammer on every chest they open now it has got to be ruined for everyone else. Everyone who is good at running elites now will hate this idea. Great.


Edit: This is more of a desperate plea than a rant. Don't do it.

[Natrich]

As for these dungeons, it'd be cool to fight more than 1 boss at once for a chance of better loot :)

[Realsoccerer]

A crazy idea but I've been thinking about it for a while now. I'd like to either remove the current Elite Dungeons, or at the very least stop making new ones for the future expansions. There would still be Elite dungeons but more in the style of the Gladiator Arena and 'raid' style dungeons, rather than copies of the 'Normal' dungeons.

But what about the loot?!

The Elite Warchests, bronze, silver and gold, would all be moved to the 'Normal' dungeons. They would have a lower chance to drop in the 'Normal' dungeons than they currently do in the Elite dungeons, since those can be cleared much faster.

In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

But why?!


Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.
You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game
Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.


Thoughts and feedback/suggestions welcome!Infinite Tower!Raid!+1!

[Valsacar]

For the random elite bosses, perhaps they could also drop mythics and arcanes. Same rate as chests currently have (as it would be like a chest, since getting the boss is random). To resolve the loot reroll elix problem, make it so pinks (for those mobs) that get rerolled do a new loot table that has elite pinks and double the normal mythic chance. That way it isn't guaranteed to reroll into a mythic/arcane.

Two drops I like, described implementation I do not. 1 drop being a chest (or egg?) is ok, but the other always being a pink I don't like. Perhaps have it be elite rare (which can be made useful...), normal pink, elite pink, mythic, arcane, chest, egg. Make elite pink be a good percentage, perhaps 30%, but not guaranteed otherwise you have the problem of too many pinks.

[Alhuntrazeck]

What will happen to the timed records on lb? The cs will have to be remade from the ground up to compensate in the variations of pricings due to drop rate changes, etc. The economy would be largely impacted.

Removing elite maps seems, in essence, total remaking of AL: with the cs in turmoil, drop rates being muddled, less challenge for the hardcore and I'm sure many more problems, I can only foresee a troubled future for this.

I'm not against the idea, nor am I for it; However, an alternative like an elite version of the hauntlet with low chances of mythic drops...this would be good. Mythics dropping would unbalance the cs for a short while but not anything long-term as I see it.

I just don't know. I just can't see this idea working out. The casual player like myself would find stuff easier but the hardcore...
Like I stated above, there must be an alternative, and not just the random elite boss popping in (which would make stuff like running nordr for exp harder); there should be something larger. The arena idea is cool, you guys should stick with it. A similar challenge with actual mobs would be good.

There could be an NPC with daily quests that are elite; that would also be nice.

Furthermore, I suggest there be varieties of elite rares and elite epics to drop from bosses more frequently (a shameful thing I must admit is I'm using a rare as an amulet!). Elite legendaries should ofc remain very rare; the cs would be unbalanced.

Something I've observed is that mythics are turning into the new elite pink. With them dropping, this classification might become even more true. I know I'm disproving one of my suggestions above but hey, I'm seeing things from all angles!

Arcane remains as rare as it originally was meant to be (probably) and that's a good sign.

Valsacar's post above is also intriguing, I like those ideas. Carapace, thank you for clarifying your plans for warriors, I'm pretty sure you guys are ready to work some magic.

So there, I'm done. Hope I made some heads (edit: EYES) turn and read thru carefully what I've typed.

Until later,
Alhuntrazeck.

[xcainnblecterx]

Come to think of it, where is the upper gauntlet we still need a achevemnt for? Lol

[Taejo]

This sucks, now all the noobs can go get the best gear. This takes away the fun of players who like a challenge, and makes it easy as cake for noobs who can't perform in elites.

Azepeiete,

First off, this isn't a flame towards you. I know you're a veteran player, and good at the game. Your post, however, is quite insulting.

Mentalities such as this is exactly why STS is looking to tinker with elite maps. You have two classes in this game: upper and lower (middle class is virtually gone). You are exemplifying exactly what is wrong with the majority of the upper class - you give the impression that you only care about yourself, and the rest are "noobs" who you look upon with disdain. Please remember that out of the hundreds of thousands of players in AL, only a small percentage of them are "hardcore". As a game community, we need to do what's best for the people as a whole, not just the rich and famous. Kind of like real society, you see?

Please bring some valid points to the discussion as to why you dislike this idea, rather than just ranting "this sucks" and "I quit" with the implied message that everyone else who plays is a "noob" unless they are on your playing level. Not everyone cares about timed runs like you do. Not everyone wants to play "long elite runs" like you do. Lastly, the generalization "Everyone who is good at running elites now will hate this idea" is fallacious - I run elite maps every day and I don't hate this idea. However, I have brought forth my ideas and rebuttles to the discussion rather than slamming this with a rant.

No hard feelings. I just really wanted to address your post and I hope you come back with good ideas.

[Rare]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. Oh, and no.

I basically only play for elite farming and timed records. If this happens, I quit. Bad move. I hate this idea. No no nooooooo please don't do it.

Does away with difficulty. Also, no more plat revives for you. No more plat spent on timed run challenges. No more finding good groups to fight long elites. No more deaths (plat) spent in the initial strategizing portion before running for recs. No more working for anything. No point in half the skills for every class. Pleaaaasssssee don't implement this.


All these positive responses make me think its happening. Brb selling my stuff to quit until you guys realize it's stupid. And i won't need good equipment anyway with weak normal mobs. This sucks, now all the noobs can go get the best gear. This takes away the fun of players who like a challenge, and makes it easy as cake for noobs who can't perform in elites. People complain so hard because they don't get an arcane hammer on every chest they open now it has got to be ruined for everyone else. Everyone who is good at running elites now will hate this idea. Great.


Edit: This is more of a desperate plea than a rant. Don't do it.

You know, to be honest, I don't know what I was thinking when I said this would be a good idea. I don't really think that. Elites are the funnest part of this game. Now, I personally don't care about the timed runs, and I would be ok with doing away with that in order to allow people to join after the map is started.

But without elites, there is nothing really to play for. I do think though there is a sweet spot in the level of difficulty. Nordr kind of went overboard.

If it happens, I'll give it a go and see what it's like though.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Zanpakuto]

Finally, this is the first real good idea that has come forth in awhile and I'm all for it. But please don't say you can solo normal maps like how u said it would be easier to find pugs for the arena. This was never the case and many average players had no platinum and would get one shot death even if they were tanks and this just wasn't fun. I hope that future updates this game goes back to pre kraken isles style where people could do a tower run while waiting in a line up at coffee. I've literally just dumped all my cash into low level PVP and spend all my time there currently because of the said difficulty and time it takes to finish a map on a mobile phone game. Had this been implemented earlier, my friends may have still continued to play.

[Kaytar]

Finally, this is the first real good idea that has come forth in awhile and I'm all for it. But please don't say you can solo normal maps like how u said it would be easier to find pugs for the arena. This was never the case and many average players had no platinum and would get one shot death even if they were tanks and this just wasn't fun. I hope that future updates this game goes back to pre kraken isles style where people could do a tower run while waiting in a line up at coffee. I've literally just dumped all my cash into low level PVP and spend all my time there currently because of the said difficulty and time it takes to finish a map on a mobile phone game. Had this been implemented earlier, my friends may have still continued to play.+1 Bringing back the casual aspect of the game without dividing the players is a must. Elite maps take way too long and get boring because theres little reward once completed after about an hour wasted.

Maybe the solution they're talking about would be to make shorter maps with less mobs to get to the boss Essentially, making it like the Nordr Mines available to play to everyone without an elixir & would be regular maps, not elite. Players want a challenge but not one that takes over 20 minutes to accomplish. Especially when the rewards are little to none.

[Energizeric]

I'm a very hardcore player and I want to see this happen. But I also want them to make sure that drop rates of elite gear does not increase as a result of this. They can make sure of this by adjusting drop rates. They also need to monitor these changes very carefully in the first couple of days after the update, and if too much elite gear is dropping they need to adjust the drop rate downwards.

The end result of this should NOT be that casual players have an easier chance to get good gear. The result of this should be that average "middle class" players spend more time farming and enjoying the game, instead of just standing around in towns doing nothing and/or begging. But it still should not be easy to acquire the best gear. Otherwise, as was posted above, the game will no longer present a challenge to the hardcore players.

[Valsacar]

If this goes through, I think they should also look at gear in general. Pink shouldn't be the minimum gear to wear, at least epic should be viable. Stats on new items should be revamped, and rarity of items balanced to keep the pinks (and above) rare enough that they are a target for middle class, like mythic and arcane are the target for hardcore players.

I'd like to see elite purples have stats just above normal pinks. Then elite pinks, then mythics, and finally arcane. Rarity should match.

Right now the game is, ignore all normal items, ignore all elites but pink. If they make this change to remove elite dungeons, it gives a chance to fix that.

[abihakim]

Yes but dont make it as hard as shuyal
And revive should be free.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[falmear]

If we go straight to just normal content, we could tweak things like damage output from enemies in normal and leave their health as is. The idea of more mobs swarming in numbers and doing more damage is a potential solution, as this would require a tank to really take that damage. Making more enemies "glass cannons" would result in some potentially threatening scenarios for solo players and overzealous groups. A good tank will always be a good tank, and will always be appreciated regardless of the zone. We want to continue to provide a reason for tanks to be relevant and fun to play.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Because we already have scenarios like this and warriors are not needed or wanted. Rogues can do some very high crit damage and what does it matter if mob do some very high damage, the mobs will be dead before they can do any serious damage. And as a mage, I know with my skills I can stop or slow any swarm. And if I cycle my skills right, I don't care how high the damage is, if the health is normal. What makes elite hard is the mobs have a lot of health or armor and hit hard. So what you are talking about is good for a party of rogues & mages (3/1 or 2/2). Tanks need not apply.



A valid point. Drop rates would need to be reduced, but it is worth reminding everyone that these would be for high end dungeon runs only. Level 15's won't see elite chests most likely, as they only contain high level gear. With the reduction of drops, we can balance that out with things like the random elite bosses that have a chance at nice loot. Perhaps they drop two pieces of loot? One will always be a copper, silver, or gold elite chest and the other will be a pink? Depends on how rare the boss is, and this is just an example of the kinds of things we can tweak to make certain things more enticing or relevant for players looking for that risk reward.

We're very aware of this sort of problem, and we will likely devise something to keep it feeling "natural" and not punishing to the players. Overall this is a big change, and some related systems would also have to change to keep the loot machine moving along smoothly.


We can already estimate how many runs its going to take. There are 2 quests. One quest is you kill 20 elite nordr bosses and you get an elite golden warchest. The other quest is you kill 40 normal nordr bosses and you get an elite silver warchest. So we can see to get a lesser elite chest you have to kill 2x more normal bosses. Regardless of all of the complaining Elite Oltgar can be completed in about 10 mins (on average), so to do 20 runs takes about 3 hours 20 mins. So we know we'd have to do more then 40 runs before getting an elite golden chest probably in the neighborhood of 80 runs. And I have done more then 20 runs and have not gotten an elite golden warchest (except from the quest). Now you consider how much more people play normal maps vs elite maps so now you have to reduce drop rates even lower to compensate. And consider the fact people on normal maps are playing with lesser equipment then elites. So often I have helped people kill bosses on normal maps so they can get to the next map, they try to clear these maps without the proper gear. And everyone else has left the map. Why do you think this will be any better when adding an elite boss to a normal map?

[Taejo]

If this goes through, I think they should also look at gear in general. Pink shouldn't be the minimum gear to wear, at least epic should be viable. Stats on new items should be revamped, and rarity of items balanced to keep the pinks (and above) rare enough that they are a target for middle class, like mythic and arcane are the target for hardcore players.

I'd like to see elite purples have stats just above normal pinks. Then elite pinks, then mythics, and finally arcane. Rarity should match.

Right now the game is, ignore all normal items, ignore all elites but pink. If they make this change to remove elite dungeons, it gives a chance to fix that.

This is a very good point. Coming from a background of MMORPGs such as UO, EQ, WoW... I was very confused when I started playing STS's "Legends" series to see that purples (which drop all the time) are considered "epic", yet don't even come close to measuring up with some legendary items. The word epic shouldn't be used so loosely! Not to mention that "rare" items are not rare at all - may as well call them "common" and rename whites to "junk". Sorry, I am going off on a completely unrelated tangent here.

I like Valsacar's idea of fine-tuning epics to scale up to their name and the new non-elite ideas being thrown on the table.

[Rare]

. Regardless of all of the complaining Elite Oltgar can be completed in about 10 mins (on average),

That's only true if you have a decent party. If you have a decent party then there is no problem to begin with. The problem is pugs. Rarely can you find a pig that can complete oltgar that fast. Not to mention that is one of six maps.

Elite is not uber difficult with a good party.

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[Spymans]

go for it,:)

[ShadowGunX]

i like elite maps bt i hate it coz d drops i get r not worth d time spent on running one elite map.
i like gladiator arena. it is like plasma pyramid in pl.

[Alrisaia]

A crazy idea but I've been thinking about it for a while now. I'd like to either remove the current Elite Dungeons, or at the very least stop making new ones for the future expansions. There would still be Elite dungeons but more in the style of the Gladiator Arena and 'raid' style dungeons, rather than copies of the 'Normal' dungeons.

Swede, you guys are doing a fantastic job with this game. I am so addicted and am having so much fun playing. I can’t believe I am playing this game on my phone! Lol… Just to date me – I used to use a beeper for work…

I don’t believe this is a good idea. And I’ll address each point below:


But what about the loot?!
The Elite Warchests, bronze, silver and gold, would all be moved to the 'Normal' dungeons. They would have a lower chance to drop in the 'Normal' dungeons than they currently do in the Elite dungeons, since those can be cleared much faster.

I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I don’t particularly like farming ‘normal’ dungeons because I load a map every minute or so. Thus, organizing with other players and waiting on them to catchup to the boss kill is somewhat annoying… not to mention the fact that while elite loot might drop there – the trash ‘non-elite’ stuff will be mixed in…

I don’t believe farming a ‘normal’ boss should have the benefits of an Elite kill… I can almost one shot kill normal Bael. 5k is my highest crit on him, thus if Malison were to drop from ‘Normal’ bael… Malison would no longer be such an ‘elite’ pet that requires a remote some skill to obtain and a small amount of coordination with a group.

That being said – I run Elite maps for the challenge and to help my guild get better so they can run with PUGS. I don’t run Elites for the loot believe it or not since I buy the stuff I want and I make my gold by merching for the most part. I open all the chests I get from looting just for the heck of it and I buy and sell ELITE loot from other farmers for profit. Changing normal map loot tables to include elite loot might greatly harm the economy. Since Elite loot would now be attainable by non-elite capable people (not that that’s a BAD thing, but it would imbalance supply / demand)…



In addition, the Gladiator Arena and any future content like that, would remain at Elite difficulty and keep its much higher drop rate of Elite loot.

I don’t like the Arena. I don’t find it challenging and I choose not to run it, although I have. I understand its purpose and I believe it has its place in the game, I just would hate to see ALL the elite content to be like this… Part of the fun of this game is the simple challenge of GETTING TO THE BOSS killing trash mobs in elite is exciting and challenging and requires teamwork, strategy, and is in some ways harder than the boss. I believe removing them from the dungeons and forming more ‘arena’ like maps would lessen the need for such teamwork, and thus, cause people to form fewer relationships with other players – and relationships with other players is typically what keeps players coming back to MMOs… at least it’s a big part of it.




But why?!
Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.

OK… so – unless the ‘normal’ content were to become more challenging, I believe it’s worth your designer’s time to maintain and create Elite dungeons. I do however LIKE the idea of having additional Random encounters in the dungeons. And I believe that if you did move Elite gear to a normal map it would have to be guarded by an Elite boss that spawns randomly like you suggest here.



You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game

I am playing this game which is an MMO because it’s an MMO. If I wanted to solo, I would find a game that I didn’t have to use up my data from my cellphone carrier with. Soloing in an MMO is a sort of silly concept. While I do it from time to time, just because – I would not think that in an MMO I could solo and get the VERY BEST LOOT in the game.



Players would be more consolidated, so you'd have more full groups playing together, making new friends. In 'Normal' dungeons, they're not locked once you start killing mobs, so new players can come in and fill spots.

I believe unlocking Elite dungeons is a better idea. Due to disconnects etc… PUGGING elites is a great way to make friends – and again, this is an MMO.




Thoughts and feedback/suggestions welcome!

I’m sorry to be a downer here – but after seeing all the positive feedback I had to add my two cents. I believe this game would lose a great deal of its appeal if there was no longer challenging content, farming an Elite dungeon *should* require a team of good players, coordination, strategy, and skill. While there could be many improvements logistically to forming up such a team, the requirement should remain.


Anyway - my comments are hopefully heard.

[Juicymango]

If you want to remove elite maps and put elite Arenas there you should make it more balanced.
The problem with the shuyal arena is that only people with platinum can Do it-.-
This is a bit stinky in my opinion... Not payer player should be able to Do it as the dungeons as well...
The thing with the platinum is only a chance for spacetime to make money (good business for you but not funny for us players) if you continue that way AL becomes a pure pay-to-win game...
Thats my Personal opinion hope you understand that
If im wrong correct me pls
Thx

[falmear]

If this goes through, we should get free respec. Because you are invalidating a number of builds. For elite I feel like I need certain skills because they are more defensive. But on normal maps, I don't need these skills even if you were to boost the damage output of the mobs. The mobs die faster, so certain skills are not as useful. And I'd like to drop these skills and use more offensive skills. I don't feel its right to pay to respec because you eliminated elite.

[Kaytar]

Wonder if they made a decision on this already. Im kinda looking forward to these changes if brought in.

[Energizeric]

All I can say to sum my thoughts up is that the farming system in Pocket Legends was far more fun. The only thing that ruined it there was the 100% luck elixirs and the 3x combo elixirs that everyone started to run with. In AL we have the chests/crates to counter the luck elixirs, so you can't reroll a mythic or arcane item, and the combo elixirs only boost your stats slightly (15-25%).

So if you were to move the AL farming system to be closer to the PL farming system in any way possible, I think that would be a good thing. I like being able to farm lower levels for twink PvP items, I like being able to join PUGs for regular end game farming, and I like not dying multiple times in every run where it is possible for me to get an elite item. The end result of AL farming is I just don't do it. I do all the maps for the achievements, and then just PvP for the most part. I miss doing PvE, but don't find it fun in the current system.

[Swede]

Still trying to figure out what to do. Thanks for all the feedback everyone, it's invaluable.

[Metztli]

You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game


*thinks about this* I'm not sure this is a good reason at all -- how many people regularly solo the higher level normal maps? I have one warrior friend who soloed just about everything until he hit a wall with the Oltgar Keep boss - spent a good hour dying repeatedly and using pots and the boss reset. I think back about my trying to solo Kraken Isles a level cap back and getting instantly killed by the mob of gunners.

A better argument for "elite" level loot is that it would motivate players to actually take on the normal bosses instead of leaving once clearing the map of additionals.

I still haven't totally wrapped my head around this idea of Arena style elite maps only. I guess it could be okay.

[keikali]

A good idea to touch upon is in order to spawn a specific "Boss" that drops elite loot in a normal map. They must CLEAR the whole map, every single given mob.

[SkullCrusher]

No. Just No. I've been enjoying Elites so much because of their difficulty. Don't you guys see that the economy is already un-stable enough? Now you want to add elites drops to normal maps for everyone to farm? This will create such an un-stable economy, aren't we trying to make it more stable? NO.

[Energizeric]

No. Just No. I've been enjoying Elites so much because of their difficulty. Don't you guys see that the economy is already un-stable enough? Now you want to add elites drops to normal maps for everyone to farm? This will create such an un-stable economy, aren't we trying to make it more stable? NO.

STS can make sure the drop rate stays consistent by lowering or raising the drop rate accordingly. They can change the parameters of the dungeons without altering the number of drops. The purpose here is to make farming more fun and possible for more players, not to increase the number of elite items dropping.

[SkullCrusher]

STS can make sure the drop rate stays consistent by lowering or raising the drop rate accordingly. They can change the parameters of the dungeons without altering the number of drops. The purpose here is to make farming more fun and possible for more players, not to increase the number of elite items dropping.

Unless they make normal dungeons MUCH harder for end-game players, there will be much more people farming resulting in more drops. More drops = prices also drop. Shuyal is another Platinum drainage since if you die and want to keep going you must buy a platinum revive. I know many more end-game players just don't like the arena but enjoy Elites. Meh, just my opinion, maybe you disagree with me Energizeric but that's fine with me, we all have our own opinions. :)

EDIT:
I'm a very hardcore player and I want to see this happen. But I also want them to make sure that drop rates of elite gear does not increase as a result of this. They can make sure of this by adjusting drop rates. They also need to monitor these changes very carefully in the first couple of days after the update, and if too much elite gear is dropping they need to adjust the drop rate downwards.

The end result of this should NOT be that casual players have an easier chance to get good gear. The result of this should be that average "middle class" players spend more time farming and enjoying the game, instead of just standing around in towns doing nothing and/or begging. But it still should not be easy to acquire the best gear. Otherwise, as was posted above, the game will no longer present a challenge to the hardcore players.

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying Energ, as long as prices of the Elite drops don't drop insanely low like locked crate items did, then I would say this is an amazing idea. :)
Looks like we do agree with each other after all don't we Energ? Lol xD.

[Energizeric]

Yes agreed. More drops does not have to mean more elite items dropping. Maybe elite items are very rare drops and most items dropping would be the ones that currently drop in the non elite dungeons. Then on very rare occasion an elite chest or elite pink will drop.

All those who played PL remember dragon farming. It was pretty easy once we were at higher level. But that didn't mean tons of dragon items were dropping. Those were very rare drops and some players farmed mount fang for months without ever seeing one drop. You could have an arcane item that drops from a certain boss be super rare like that. And maybe no mythics drop from the same boss, so you can't reroll the arcane item. That's how mount fang originally was. No purples in the drop table so you couldn't reroll a dragon item. Then when they added purples it ruined it as everyone started getting rerolled dragon items and the price of those items collapsed.

I hope STS has leaned from their mistakes in this regard.

[Ebezaanec]

Instead of long and tedious dungeons, that requires a lot a time for the casual player... How about some dungeons similar to the Shuyal Dungeon. However, small mobs will spawn in short waves, instead of the boss itself spawning immediately.

Since the game's majority of players are casual players, the time spent conquering the dungeons should not be somewhat strenuous. These dungeons should not take a chunk of time to complete, but will still require effort to complete.

Just my opinion ofc.

[Bastok]

I am in favor of removing elite versions of maps. I know some people like them, but I'm not a big fan. They're too time consuming and there's barely any reward.

While I can't say I have ever enjoyed running elite maps, I can say that I have enjoyed casual farming with friends. Getting out there, killing stuff, having some laughs, getting egg drops. Those are some of the best times I've had in AL. To throw in those incredibly rare chances of getting awesome loot would be a great addition to the game.

I also like the idea of randomly spawning elite bosses in normal areas. I think that would be pretty exciting and help shake things up a little bit. Of course, they would have a higher chance of dropping that great loot, but it still must be rare.

Here's an idea I have to help add more diversity to these randomly spawning bosses. Add 3 levels of randomly spawning bosses. You could have that random boss that is harder and appears randomly throughout the map, you could also have the random elite boss that spawns in place of the normal boss for better loot drop chances, and you could also have the mega rare super elite boss. The super elite boss will randomly appear AFTER killing the boss at the end of the map. This boss will not only be super hard and require a good team to kill efficiently, but it also has a time limit that it has to be killed in. So say the super mega rare elite boss spawns, you have 5 minutes or so to kill him. If you kill him, you get the best possible loot drops, if the time limit expires, the boss runs away.

I think it would be exciting to have the possibility of random bosses popping up in your everyday farming. Super elite mega bosses with time limits would also help quench the thirst for the hardcore players.

Of course, I think there should also be at least one dungeon designed per campaign specifically for elite players. It's not a normal dungeon just vamped up in difficulty, it's a whole new dungeon with a specific strategy in mind and very difficult. This will be good for people who enjoy something very challenging, and it will also keep the leaderboard battles healthy for the fastest completion of the elite dungeon. Of course drop rates would be a tad higher than normal, but the dungeon will be for the more competitive players looking to challenge themselves and battle for leaderboard positions. Casual players won't feel like they're missing out if they decide to skip on a campaign's elite dungeon.

Of course you could keep the shorter arena battles and crates for the players would prefer to farm with their wallets over spending time out in the field.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Alhuntrazeck]

There. Just finished a 13 minute Elite Oltgar run and got...wait for it...that's right, crap. I have a 25% luck reroll elixir + the amulet so there must be something wrong. I'm suddenly all for the idea of doing away with elite maps, its so long and so rare that you get a drop, its just plain annoying.

[Rare]

Honestly, if elite difficulty and time went back to Dead City... Things would be fine.

[jazaajaba]

Awesome idea

[Morholt]

There. Just finished a 13 minute Elite Oltgar run and got...wait for it...that's right, crap. I have a 25% luck reroll elixir + the amulet so there must be something wrong. I'm suddenly all for the idea of doing away with elite maps, its so long and so rare that you get a drop, its just plain annoying.40% reroll chance doesn't mean a sure thing of a reroll...

So, you think a 13 minute run was bad, huh? Well...at least the boss was there! You got exactly as you expected. The loot wasn't as desired, but at least you had the chance.

Consider how the new Elite Bael II is...do you REALLY want that for every map? If you read some more of the sub forums, you'll see MANY people are spending 4 or 6 hours straight of trying to just find him ONCE, and still NOT finding him. Do you really want to run a normal map for hours on end without fighting a single worthwhile boss? I'd much rather do a 10-15 minute elite map, get to fight a boss, and have a low chance at a super good drop (while having a good chance for a decent drop).

It sounds 'cool' to unite good and bad players...but it really isn't in practice. So...we spend 6+ hours looking for a spawn of an elite boss...just for us to be grouped with 3 players of the worst kind (bad gear AND simply bad at playing the game). However, they know what can happen from this rarely spawning boss...he is guaranteed to drop something super good! Oh, my! This means...they aren't going to be leaving the game any time soon. You might be waiting another hour in hopes of one or two of them leaving so that you can call in a friend (assuming that they are still only at this point...). Meanwhile, you pray you don't disconnect. Your loot elixir is going to be long gone by the time you find the boss (unless you purchase one with plat at the boss).
Personally, I like being able to make a team by checking out the stats of those around me and knowing that I'm with a good group and then going into a difficult fight, with a guaranteed boss there, with a lower chance of super good drops (while being able to make a handful of runs at certain elite bosses within the timespan of a reroll elixir).

I like the idea of a rare spawn of an elite boss on normal maps--it adds some spice and fun.
However, taking away elite maps is too much and just a bad idea.
Why can't we just have both? Elite maps and a rare elite spawn on normal maps.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Its clearing the mobs that are the problem. I don't like the idea of the random spawning Bael, but that's just me. If we had an arena with constant spawning mobs wave after wave until the boss is out...that would be better than long elite runs.

[Rare]

If the changes are going to be like bael ii, it will fail. Spawn rate is way too low. Several hours for me and no sighting.

Getting rid of elites is not the right thing. Just make the difficulty closer to season ii dead city.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Taejo]

I think this weekend is just a preliminary test of ideas. But I agree, although Bael's loot table is decent, his current rarity does not balance out taking away elite maps.

EDIT: changed "justify" to "balance"

[Alrisaia]

Its clearing the mobs that are the problem. I don't like the idea of the random spawning Bael, but that's just me. If we had an arena with constant spawning mobs wave after wave until the boss is out...that would be better than long elite runs.

Part of what makes elite is the difficulty in getting to the boss in the first place... Removing that difficulty means the only difference between elite end game pve and non elite end game pve is the amount of time it takes for the run...

See many pugs running elite palm rock? Nope... That's a difficult run thus the drops from there have remained high value. We need difficult runs.

[Rajnikanth]

Part of what makes elite is the difficulty in getting to the boss in the first place... Removing that difficulty means the only difference between elite end game pve and non elite end game pve is the amount of time it takes for the run...

See many pugs running elite palm rock? Nope... That's a difficult run thus the drops from there have remained high value. We need difficult runs.

d reason i dnt run elite nodr is becoz of crappy drops i get.
i can do elite oltger in less then 10mins bt i hav to spam alot pots in this season. nd after killing him i get epic stuffs which is not worth selling.

i like bael 2 runs. atleast guaranteed pinks nd i dnt spam alot pots killing bael comparing running elite maps which is risky, costly nd very low chance of getting pinks which worth d pots i use.

[rushmore]

If the difficulty-increase implemented this weekend is a sign of how the game will progress from now on then consider arcane legends as a non-starter for new players. The whole mechanic has been changed, with solo farming slowed down to a crawl for casual players. Since the update on Friday this game is not fun anymore. I usually sink 6+ hours a day into it but this weekend I've hardly been on, due to the time/resources it now takes to complete even the lower level maps (and i know I'm not alone). Just remember... If you alienate the causal gamers and they quit, will the advanced/hardcore minority provide enough income to cover the losses? Think hard......

[darthdlo]

if we go with this we should add a revive skill to mages and add invite/boot option.

[dirtymageic]

I feel that the idea of cutting out elites would be a bad business strategy as not everyone is into PvP. I know many have grown sick of Mali/Kettle runs (as such)but it wouldn't be hard to revitalize the Breckenridge area. Throw three new weapons in the mix, a new pet and people will want to play it again. In addition a lot of success with elites depends on guild/player quality which as we all know...is a wide spectrum.

For the elite elites though it would be nice for a guaranteed second boss if no one in party dies during first fight. Or how wild would it be if we could reroll a second boss. The person who rerolled the boss would then get the best loot in party since their first loot spawned second boss.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Oh yes a revive option for mage would be wonderful!












...not in PvP tho. Or you've got the next OP class.

[katish]

I wanna chip in, even if a bit late..

So I see most of the concern and discussions have been about the drop itens, rate and the economy. I would like to bring the playability back in the table. I enjoy playing elite because it's hard! I like that it requires strategizing, cooperation, time and effort. No, it's not casual.. that's why I like it, it requires skills.. trying to do elites with pugs just doesn't work.

But regular maps are casual enough and the proof of that is how many players we have logged on at any given time just doing their casual playing.. When I don't feel like comitting to elite I'll go play pvp, or help guildies unlock maps, do quests, run km3.. there are many many options out there!

EDIT: I forgot to add .. I think one of the reasons why we sort of lost the casual feeling of the game is because of all the 1 hit kills... I mean, nordr bosses still hit outside the red area and 1 shot kill most of us.. who wants to have to deal with that frustration? I mean, who actually runs nordr other than oltgar keep and crystal cavern?

I think the idea of having a loner elite boss in a regular map is interesting though.. it gives the average player a taste of what elite is like and it could attract more players into end game. Maybe even expand to have a mini elite oasis in regular maps.. like the spot where Bael II pops up in mt spyr.. make all that an elite area within a regular map.. so it wouldn't take as long as 15-30 min (average time for a pug to clear an elite map)..

And what Morholt said.. most ppl would never get invited to a random elite boss run because it'd be packed with a pug and no one would want to leave. Again, what he said.. why can't we have both?

Maybe a suggestion regarding elite maps.. make it so you don't have to be cap level to go to previous campaigns elite maps.. and then you can incorporate what energizeric suggested, having elite 16 gear drop from elite 16 campaign map, elite 21 gear dropping from elite 21 campaign map.. maybe lock the previous elite campaign maps to higher level players, so if you want to farm dead city elite you have to be within the designed level range (mean you can't be level 36 going into elite map design for lvl 26). This could potentially boost the interest of players having a twink for farming lower twink level items...

[ShadowGunX]

that is so cool, plz remove these stupid elite maps. or either make warrior as capable of tanking efficiently. the armour nd dodge is so PATHETIC to do elite, rofl i dnt want to talk about its dmg bt ok, bt we need more armour nd dodge, that is wat a REAL TANK

[Haligali]

40% reroll chance doesn't mean a sure thing of a reroll...

So, you think a 13 minute run was bad, huh? Well...at least the boss was there! You got exactly as you expected. The loot wasn't as desired, but at least you had the chance.

Consider how the new Elite Bael II is...do you REALLY want that for every map? If you read some more of the sub forums, you'll see MANY people are spending 4 or 6 hours straight of trying to just find him ONCE, and still NOT finding him. Do you really want to run a normal map for hours on end without fighting a single worthwhile boss? I'd much rather do a 10-15 minute elite map, get to fight a boss, and have a low chance at a super good drop (while having a good chance for a decent drop).

It sounds 'cool' to unite good and bad players...but it really isn't in practice. So...we spend 6+ hours looking for a spawn of an elite boss...just for us to be grouped with 3 players of the worst kind (bad gear AND simply bad at playing the game). However, they know what can happen from this rarely spawning boss...he is guaranteed to drop something super good! Oh, my! This means...they aren't going to be leaving the game any time soon. You might be waiting another hour in hopes of one or two of them leaving so that you can call in a friend (assuming that they are still only at this point...). Meanwhile, you pray you don't disconnect. Your loot elixir is going to be long gone by the time you find the boss (unless you purchase one with plat at the boss).
Personally, I like being able to make a team by checking out the stats of those around me and knowing that I'm with a good group and then going into a difficult fight, with a guaranteed boss there, with a lower chance of super good drops (while being able to make a handful of runs at certain elite bosses within the timespan of a reroll elixir).

I like the idea of a rare spawn of an elite boss on normal maps--it adds some spice and fun.
However, taking away elite maps is too much and just a bad idea.
Why can't we just have both? Elite maps and a rare elite spawn on normal maps.

I agree with you, finding bael more time consuming than the hardest elite maps, and depends on pure luck. 100+ runs at normal windmoore/mount/crystal/skull so boring.
Also dont really like the arena, that is for rogues, elite bosses without mobs.
I like the challenge of elite mobs, they need crowd control.

[Obi]

Maybe it would be a good idea to have some elite mobs (dropping more - like 200 gold - for each killed mob) instead of an elite boss (in arena or spawning on normal maps)? Or a new challenge arena with just wave of mobs?

[Alrisaia]

I wanna chip in, even if a bit late..

So I see most of the concern and discussions have been about the drop itens, rate and the economy. I would like to bring the playability back in the table. I enjoy playing elite because it's hard! I like that it requires strategizing, cooperation, time and effort. No, it's not casual.. that's why I like it, it requires skills.. trying to do elites with pugs just doesn't work.

But regular maps are casual enough and the proof of that is how many players we have logged on at any given time just doing their casual playing.. When I don't feel like comitting to elite I'll go play pvp, or help guildies unlock maps, do quests, run km3.. there are many many options out there!

EDIT: I forgot to add .. I think one of the reasons why we sort of lost the casual feeling of the game is because of all the 1 hit kills... I mean, nordr bosses still hit outside the red area and 1 shot kill most of us.. who wants to have to deal with that frustration? I mean, who actually runs nordr other than oltgar keep and crystal cavern?

I think the idea of having a loner elite boss in a regular map is interesting though.. it gives the average player a taste of what elite is like and it could attract more players into end game. Maybe even expand to have a mini elite oasis in regular maps.. like the spot where Bael II pops up in mt spyr.. make all that an elite area within a regular map.. so it wouldn't take as long as 15-30 min (average time for a pug to clear an elite map)..

And what Morholt said.. most ppl would never get invited to a random elite boss run because it'd be packed with a pug and no one would want to leave. Again, what he said.. why can't we have both?

Maybe a suggestion regarding elite maps.. make it so you don't have to be cap level to go to previous campaigns elite maps.. and then you can incorporate what energizeric suggested, having elite 16 gear drop from elite 16 campaign map, elite 21 gear dropping from elite 21 campaign map.. maybe lock the previous elite campaign maps to higher level players, so if you want to farm dead city elite you have to be within the designed level range (mean you can't be level 36 going into elite map design for lvl 26). This could potentially boost the interest of players having a twink for farming lower twink level items...
I'm going to reply with some additional thoughts here.



So here goes. Last night I /partyinvite 000 and ran harbor and spur over and over again for two and a half hours.

I racked up over 1k kills from those two maps in that amount of time. Bael finally spawned for me and it was very exciting!

I promptly told my guild to get their cameras ready because I had found the Sasquatch! Because he's as elusive as Bigfoot we joke...

But... Because I had partyinvited 000 it apparently has the map locked and thus we didn't kill him. so i for the first time in this game rage quit.

That was really frustrating. Here's the deal, I like to be challenged. Farming for bael last night wasn't challenging in the slightest. I solo each map in under one minute and because I was running so fast I waSnt chatting or socializing at all either this it was like playing a single player game the whole time.

Additionally my lv 29 mage is geared in lv 26 pinks so anyone with a remote level of skill could do the same.

Why did we want to do this exactly? When I say we I mean the players because we agreed this would be a good change. Help me understand how elite bael spawning in regular maps has helped this game.

:-( sadly I say I don't want elites to go away. It's why I play, just make it more attractive to run them and people will do so.

[Rajnikanth]

I'm going to reply with some additional thoughts here.



So here goes. Last night I /partyinvite 000 and ran harbor and spur over and over again for two and a half hours.

I racked up over 1k kills from those two maps in that amount of time. Bael finally spawned for me and it was very exciting!

I promptly told my guild to get their cameras ready because I had found the Sasquatch! Because he's as elusive as Bigfoot we joke...

But... Because I had partyinvited 000 it apparently has the map locked and thus we didn't kill him. so i for the first time in this game rage quit.

That was really frustrating. Here's the deal, I like to be challenged. Farming for bael last night wasn't challenging in the slightest. I solo each map in under one minute and because I was running so fast I waSnt chatting or socializing at all either this it was like playing a single player game the whole time.

Additionally my lv 29 mage is geared in lv 26 pinks so anyone with a remote level of skill could do the same.

Why did we want to do this exactly? When I say we I mean the players because we agreed this would be a good change. Help me understand how elite bael spawning in regular maps has helped this game.

:-( sadly I say I don't want elites to go away. It's why I play, just make it more attractive to run them and people will do so.

ya. it is good for those who hav mythic gears nd mythic ppl ALWAYS run with mythic ppl. for this reason elite map should go away.
as my war toon didnt hav atleast mythic sword, no one in my guild invited me. that guild is not d first guild that hadnt invited me. bt sme other guilds like EOS, Calamity reigns, GOA, etc nd top guilds too. i had changed around 8guilds.

so it is good to take it out as rich player becoming rich while we poor becoming poor. coz gold comes elite boss loot only.

now m searching guilds that can help me farm elite maps.

i want to join ur guild bt i lost believe. those top guilds say they do elite farm everyday. yes they do bt with whom? those having mythic weapons only. rest will do only beg for help.

[Rare]

After a few days of running for Bael... and not finding him, at all, I can tell you this... it is going to get old very fast. I'm already bored of searching for him and its only been a week.

I still feel like the elite is a staple of this game. You just have to fix it. I know you said its a lot of extra work. That's true, but its also a very important part of the game IMO.

I think at the very least, the loot tables need to be changed for these new elite bosses and they need to spawn more often. Wasting time soloing normal maps is not any better than wasting time running elite dungeons.


ya. it is good for those who hav mythic gears nd mythic ppl ALWAYS run with mythic ppl. for this reason elite map should go away.
as my war toon didnt hav atleast mythic sword, no one in my guild invited me. that guild is not d first guild that hadnt invited me. bt sme other guilds like EOS, Calamity reigns, GOA, etc nd top guilds too. i had changed around 8guilds.

so it is good to take it out as rich player becoming rich while we poor becoming poor. coz gold comes elite boss loot only.

now m searching guilds that can help me farm elite maps.

i want to join ur guild bt i lost believe. those top guilds say they do elite farm everyday. yes they do bt with whom? those having mythic weapons only. rest will do only beg for help.

I'm sorry to hear that. For one, it sounds like your guild is the problem. But it happens when you are in guilds that are very large. This doesn't have anything to do with elite or mythic though. Before and after getting mythics I run with people without mythics. First thigns first, find a guild that is right for you.

[Alrisaia]

ya. it is good for those who hav mythic gears nd mythic ppl ALWAYS run with mythic ppl. for this reason elite map should go away.
as my war toon didnt hav atleast mythic sword, no one in my guild invited me. that guild is not d first guild that hadnt invited me. bt sme other guilds like EOS, Calamity reigns, GOA, etc nd top guilds too. i had changed around 8guilds.

so it is good to take it out as rich player becoming rich while we poor becoming poor. coz gold comes elite boss loot only.

now m searching guilds that can help me farm elite maps.

i want to join ur guild bt i lost believe. those top guilds say they do elite farm everyday. yes they do bt with whom? those having mythic weapons only. rest will do only beg for help.

I only have a mythic bow. My officers have a few pieces of mythics here and there. We're a caring culture of mature and good players.

[Rajnikanth]

I'm sorry to hear that. For one, it sounds like your guild is the problem. But it happens when you are in guilds that are very large. This doesn't have anything to do with elite or mythic though. Before and after getting mythics I run with people without mythics. First thigns first, find a guild that is right for you.

i m facing this problem from season3.
at season1 nd season2 i used to do elite runs with guild nd also there were no mythics nd elite pinks set costed 500k-1mil bt aftr season3 ppl prefered to runs with those mythic ppp bt also were doing with non mythics.
bt at season4 groups even with elite pinks were finding difficult to do elite nodr boss.
ik mythic has conection bt i say mythic ppl (most) mentality is narrow. they wanted to run with full mythic group only to finish maps within 7-8min.
lastly i say i dnt hav credit card so i cant buy plats to open locked crates. w3i doesnt giv enough plats too.
m guildless atm nd thinking to make my own guild where only nd only i will b there.

[Rajnikanth]

I only have a mythic bow. My officers have a few pieces of mythics here and there. We're a caring culture of mature and good players.

mature nd good players hmmm.
so obviously u all r crates opener.
btw as ur guild is specially elite running guild so u shud add one more requirements.
that is:
-one should hav atleast mythic weapon.

not ur guild alone lol. those all top50-100 guilds too shud use afforemention requirement. it will b better for us before getting humiliation.

[Azepeiete]

After spending hours searching for bael, Trying both ends of the spectrum, I'm still heavily in favor of running elites. The only reason to farm for the best gear would be to pvp, which makes the game become basically all pvp oriented. I enjoy running elites and I think those who aren't good at elites now should practice, rather than asking for it to get easier.

This change would make it so skill has no factor on how long it takes for you to earn money. The most skilled should earn it faster, or else there is no point in working hard to practice.

Still a -1 for me, after participating in many bael runs.

[katish]

mature nd good players hmmm.
so obviously u all r crates opener.
btw as ur guild is specially elite running guild so u shud add one more requirements.
that is:
-one should hav atleast mythic weapon.

not ur guild alone lol. those all top50-100 guilds too shud use afforemention requirement. it will b better for us before getting humiliation.

Yes that are a lot of elite high end guilds with different recruiting pre reqs, and there are others who are laid back and casual but that still do elite runs. I happen to have toons in both these types of guilds, it's all about finding the right guild for you. It has less to do with equipment as it has to do with skill though.

In any case, I don't believe the fact that you can't get an elite run invite is reason enough to remove elite maps.... You can always pug u know?

Enviado de meu GT-I9300 usando o Tapatalk 2

[ShadowGunX]

No elites plz.

[Alrisaia]

mature nd good players hmmm.
so obviously u all r crates opener.
btw as ur guild is specially elite running guild so u shud add one more requirements.
that is:
-one should hav atleast mythic weapon.

not ur guild alone lol. those all top50-100 guilds too shud use afforemention requirement. it will b better for us before getting humiliation.

Some own crates some don't. I have no reason to humiliate anyone. I bought my mythic bow for 2m gold from farming elite.

And I would never require gear to get into my guild. I've met full mythic players who have no clue what they're doing and players with pink gear who can outrun just about any mythic except for the tops.

I pay very little attention to gear it's more about strategy and skill.


Some elitist immature fools have obviously influenced your opinion and I'm sorry for that. You're welcome to friend all of my officers and myself in game and we would be happy to show you how to run elite maps * without * mythic gear if you'd prefer.

[falmear]

So here is the current situation:

1) farming bael is boring because everyone runs to where the boss spawns killing things along the way and if he doesn't spawn everyone quits. Doing this gets so mind numbingly boring that I usually just give up after 10 runs. So far I have never found bael even after doing like over 100 runs total.

2) people are now complaining kraken is harder. Think how hard the next expansion will be because everyone with mythic gear will be upgraded and playing non elite.

3) elite golden warchests have significantly dropped in price. This is normal but since bael ii was introduced there has been a significant drop in prices. So while i haven't found him some people are and this directly impacts prices lowering the cost of warchests. Making farming elites even worse.

4) using a luck elixir is a waste now because if you spend the entire time looking for this random boss it will run out.
If you buy it with plat it means you get one shot.

5) farming elite at least you got copper and silver to pay for your pots and profit could be made on golden chests. But now with bael you just keep losing money hoping to see bael.

6) the skill has been removed from the game you just need to focus on damage output to run to the spawn point while killing what you need to to get him to spawn. So people with mythics (I have mythic gun, armor, helm) a serious advantage. In elite max damage is not desirable because you will die easily. When I play with random's I don't care what their damage is but I check their HP and armor, if its too low I refuse to play with them. Because they die too easily will miss their drop and time spent running back after dieing is the be biggest time
waster.

7) you are making warriors not relevant. Why do I need a warr to run and kill mobs? And all elite bosses can be killed without a warr. If I want fast bael runs I make sure no warr is in the party because their DMG sucks.

I am sorry but I think this is a bad idea. If you want to fix elite then make killing the moibs a bit easier and fix being hit outside the red zone. Then more people would play. Also add the crates changes you made to warchests. Remove epics and replace it with gold and plat. Every mythic I own has been bought from gold I made from farming elite. Not from merching (buying/selling), not from opening crates and not from buying gold. But from knowing what to farm, how to play and how to adapt to an ever changing game.

[Taejo]

So here is the current situation:

1) farming bael is boring because everyone runs to where the boss spawns killing things along the way and if he doesn't spawn everyone quits. Doing this gets so mind numbingly boring that I usually just give up after 10 runs. So far I have never found bael even after doing like over 100 runs total.

2) people are now complaining kraken is harder. Think how hard the next expansion will be because everyone with mythic gear will be upgraded and playing non elite.

3) elite golden warchests have significantly dropped in price. This is normal but since bael ii was introduced there has been a significant drop in prices. So while i haven't found him some people are and this directly impacts prices lowering the cost of warchests. Making farming elites even worse.

4) using a luck elixir is a waste now because if you spend the entire time looking for this random boss it will run out.
If you buy it with plat it means you get one shot.

5) farming elite at least you got copper and silver to pay for your pots and profit could be made on golden chests. But now with bael you just keep losing money hoping to see bael.

6) the skill has been removed from the game you just need to focus on damage output to run to the spawn point while killing what you need to to get him to spawn. So people with mythics (I have mythic gun, armor, helm) a serious advantage. In elite max damage is not desirable because you will die easily. When I play with random's I don't care what their damage is but I check their HP and armor, if its too low I refuse to play with them. Because they die too easily will miss their drop and time spent running back after dieing is the be biggest time
waster.

7) you are making warriors not relevant. Why do I need a warr to run and kill mobs? And all elite bosses can be killed without a warr. If I want fast bael runs I make sure no warr is in the party because their DMG sucks.

I am sorry but I think this is a bad idea. If you want to fix elite then make killing the moibs a bit easier and fix being hit outside the red zone. Then more people would play. Also add the crates changes you made to warchests. Remove epics and replace it with gold and plat. Every mythic I own has been bought from gold I made from farming elite. Not from merching (buying/selling), not from opening crates and not from buying gold. But from knowing what to farm, how to play and how to adapt to an ever changing game.

Well said! Especially the part about warriors - thank you!

[Energizeric]

So here is the current situation:

1) farming bael is boring because everyone runs to where the boss spawns killing things along the way and if he doesn't spawn everyone quits. Doing this gets so mind numbingly boring that I usually just give up after 10 runs. So far I have never found bael even after doing like over 100 runs total.

2) people are now complaining kraken is harder. Think how hard the next expansion will be because everyone with mythic gear will be upgraded and playing non elite.

3) elite golden warchests have significantly dropped in price. This is normal but since bael ii was introduced there has been a significant drop in prices. So while i haven't found him some people are and this directly impacts prices lowering the cost of warchests. Making farming elites even worse.

4) using a luck elixir is a waste now because if you spend the entire time looking for this random boss it will run out.
If you buy it with plat it means you get one shot.

5) farming elite at least you got copper and silver to pay for your pots and profit could be made on golden chests. But now with bael you just keep losing money hoping to see bael.

6) the skill has been removed from the game you just need to focus on damage output to run to the spawn point while killing what you need to to get him to spawn. So people with mythics (I have mythic gun, armor, helm) a serious advantage. In elite max damage is not desirable because you will die easily. When I play with random's I don't care what their damage is but I check their HP and armor, if its too low I refuse to play with them. Because they die too easily will miss their drop and time spent running back after dieing is the be biggest time
waster.

7) you are making warriors not relevant. Why do I need a warr to run and kill mobs? And all elite bosses can be killed without a warr. If I want fast bael runs I make sure no warr is in the party because their DMG sucks.

I am sorry but I think this is a bad idea. If you want to fix elite then make killing the moibs a bit easier and fix being hit outside the red zone. Then more people would play. Also add the crates changes you made to warchests. Remove epics and replace it with gold and plat. Every mythic I own has been bought from gold I made from farming elite. Not from merching (buying/selling), not from opening crates and not from buying gold. But from knowing what to farm, how to play and how to adapt to an ever changing game.

I think the easy solution is to make elite chests and elite pinks drop from non-elite bosses, but at a lower chance. Maybe 1 out of every 10 chests you get would be an elite chest. The results would be that people would actually continue past the bael spawn place and finish the boss at the end.

There is a very good (and very fun) farming system in pocket legends. Everyone loves it, and it's the one thing nobody in PL ever complains about. They need to try to copy that system to AL. Why fix what is not broken? PL had a good system and I do miss it.

[Rare]

After spending hours searching for bael, Trying both ends of the spectrum, I'm still heavily in favor of running elites. The only reason to farm for the best gear would be to pvp, which makes the game become basically all pvp oriented. I enjoy running elites and I think those who aren't good at elites now should practice, rather than asking for it to get easier.

This change would make it so skill has no factor on how long it takes for you to earn money. The most skilled should earn it faster, or else there is no point in working hard to practice.

Still a -1 for me, after participating in many bael runs.

Agreed, I've actually gone back to running elites. Haven't looked for bael in a couple days

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[falmear]

I think the easy solution is to make elite chests and elite pinks drop from non-elite bosses, but at a lower chance. Maybe 1 out of every 10 chests you get would be an elite chest. The results would be that people would actually continue past the bael spawn place and finish the boss at the end.

There is a very good (and very fun) farming system in pocket legends. Everyone loves it, and it's the one thing nobody in PL ever complains about. They need to try to copy that system to AL. Why fix what is not broken? PL had a good system and I do miss it.

I disagree with your suggestion because this just means I am running fast from one end to another and I am not surprised you totally ignored this point. And having 2 bosses dropping elite chests means the drop rates will need to be even lower. People like yourself who don't play elite and only merch then I see why you want this system. But people who play elite pretty much hate this because the game play is boring. So it doesn't surprise me you are pushing hard for this since people like you will benefit the most. Elite was fine in the Kraken release and it was easy to get a PUG in elite southern seas. Nothing you suggest can't also be applied to elite if they made the maps a bit easier and adjusted drop rates accordingly. But in my opinion STS wants to do away with elite for their benefit and not ours. Less dev & QA on their part and we have less maps to play. Then they take that dev & QA time to develop elite bosses like arena/boss brawl and charge us plat to play. But with the same bosses and annoying obstacles. Sorry but if you like PL so much you should go back there and stop playing AL. The two games don't have to be identical, AL isn't PL 2.

[Energizeric]

The problem with the current system is that they keep discontinuing items. Why do items have to be discontinued? Why can't I farm for a level 16 flamestrike anymore?

I don't actually mind elites. What I dislike is that they keep scaling up the elite dungeons every time. Why? Leave the lower level content alone, and just make a new campaign. Elite Jarl should still drop level 15/16 stuff, dead city elite should be 20/21, and so on. Why the need to have every single item keep scaling up. This just makes everything confusing as there are so many different types of gear at so many different levels, I'm not sure how any new player can even keep track of it or figure out what is best. It's just a big mess, and this is what is causing some of the problems with the economy. This game needs more stability. If you keep changing everything every month or two, the economy will continue to go nuts and will never settle down.

[falmear]

The problem with the current system is that they keep discontinuing items. Why do items have to be discontinued? Why can't I farm for a level 16 flamestrike anymore?

I don't actually mind elites. What I dislike is that they keep scaling up the elite dungeons every time. Why? Leave the lower level content alone, and just make a new campaign. Elite Jarl should still drop level 15/16 stuff, dead city elite should be 20/21, and so on. Why the need to have every single item keep scaling up. This just makes everything confusing as there are so many different types of gear at so many different levels, I'm not sure how any new player can even keep track of it or figure out what is best. It's just a big mess, and this is what is causing some of the problems with the economy. This game needs more stability. If you keep changing everything every month or two, the economy will continue to go nuts and will never settle down.

Elite is for elite level players, they should scale up all maps. This gives us more options for farming. Some elite players like farming elite Jarl because its quick and not scaling up Jarl takes away a quick map where some people like to farm. Its easy to figure out what is better, in the auction house you press "Show Stats" I am sure you know this and this is something I figured out pretty early on. When you have the people farming only a small number of maps, then you have an over supply of the same items. This is why for a while Elite Banded Golden Chest II were selling for over 100k while Elite Golden Warchests were less then 70k. And level 30 amulets & rings coming from these chests were selling for over 1 million gold.

[Pandamoni]

I've searched for Bael maybe 2-3 times and given up pretty quickly. It's boring and poses no challenge. I like running elites. What I don't like about elites is if my teammate disconnects (as is known to happen quite easily on a mobile device) then we are short one and the person who was running with me ends up missing out on a drop.

Please DO NOT eliminate elite dungeons. Honestly, running elites is the main thing I do here aside from helping people. If I'm playing just for me, just for fun, I'm going to pug elite or run w guildies. (and I don't have to run with people in full mythic. I have left a game before because there was a level 30 rogue with something like 98 damage but I even hang in there with the rogues with 130-140 damage just to see how it pans out).

[Alrisaia]

The problem with the current system is that they keep discontinuing items. Why do items have to be discontinued? Why can't I farm for a level 16 flamestrike anymore?

I don't actually mind elites. What I dislike is that they keep scaling up the elite dungeons every time. Why? Leave the lower level content alone, and just make a new campaign. Elite Jarl should still drop level 15/16 stuff, dead city elite should be 20/21, and so on. Why the need to have every single item keep scaling up. This just makes everything confusing as there are so many different types of gear at so many different levels, I'm not sure how any new player can even keep track of it or figure out what is best. It's just a big mess, and this is what is causing some of the problems with the economy. This game needs more stability. If you keep changing everything every month or two, the economy will continue to go nuts and will never settle down.

I actually agree that you should be able to farm lower lv elite items. I never really understood why weapons scaled to the level of the toon and Werent just a specific level.

[wolf17]

ARGGGG reading everyone's comments is making my head hurt :/



Designers could stop focusing on maintaining the Elite dungeons, which is quite a time sink, leaving us more time for other content. I've always wanted to do more rare encounters in our dungeons so the 10'th time you play through Oltgar Keep, it all of a sudden has an extra boss with rare loot. Maybe even put rare Elite bosses in 'Normal' dungeons, letting you tell your friends/guild to come help you, if you find one.
Some are missing this point Swede said. Elite dungeons take alot of time to make and run. I hardly ever run elite nordr because its almost impossible for PUGs to finish and very time consuming. As the normal maps become harder, elites will natraly also become harder, which will lead to even longer runs in the future. If designers didn't waste their precious time on making dungeons that few people run, their could be more fun events/arenas (pvp) that everyone can join in.


You could now solo and still have a chance at the very best loot in the game
Personally i actually like soloing or just getting with a friend to run elite arcane grounds. PUGs can get extremely annoying for elites, sometimes i just rage quit after all of them just die and im here left alone burning my pots away for no reason, and when i finnaly reach the boss, i get a sh**** elite copper chest. This hardly pays of for my pots. On normal maps, i hardly ever need to wear away pots.


I think the easy solution is to make elite chests and elite pinks drop from non-elite bosses, but at a lower chance. Maybe 1 out of every 10 chests you get would be an elite chest. The results would be that people would actually continue past the bael spawn place and finish the boss at the end.

There is a very good (and very fun) farming system in pocket legends. Everyone loves it, and it's the one thing nobody in PL ever complains about. They need to try to copy that system to AL. Why fix what is not broken? PL had a good system and I do miss it.
Sounds interesting, but wouldn't that just cause the economy to just fall? Now lowered leveled people (twinks) will be out there farming for elite chest. And once those elite pinks keep coming out of those chest...nothing good is going to happen.

Yeah i do like the idea to stop making elite maps (honestly i dont have a care in the world for them, unless i have 70% reroll chance) for future expasions, but i think you should keep the current elite maps. That would keep the casual play to this game, and to the hard core players, they can keep running the current elite maps.

hope my feedback is noted :)

[Taejo]

I actually agree that you should be able to farm lower lv elite items. I never really understood why weapons scaled to the level of the toon and Werent just a specific level.

Agree. Every MMORPG I've played, they've afforded players to farm twink gear. This game has completely ignored/ruined that enjoyment. I refuse to open crates to twink.


Some are missing this point Swede said. Elite dungeons take alot of time to make and run. I hardly ever run elite nordr because its almost impossible for PUGs to finish and very time consuming. As the normal maps become harder, elites will natraly also become harder, which will lead to even longer runs in the future. If designers didn't waste their precious time on making dungeons that few people run, their could be more fun events/arenas (pvp) that everyone can join in.

Do we have any hard statistics to back up this claim everyone is making that no one runs elite maps? I find that hard to believe as fact. Personally, in my guild composed of me and my best in-game friend, we run elite maps all day every day and the payoffs are wonderful. Together we've completely geared up 3 toons in full mythic. You just have to know where and how to farm - there is a strategy to it whether or not you believe so.

I feel your pain about PUGs. Personally, I've never dabbled much into the PUG world. I've always ran elite maps with 1 or 2 friends (you don't need a full group nor a perfect group set up because the difficulty of elites scales on the number of players in the zone). I recommend changing your methods of how you attempt to run elite maps and see how it goes. Yes, elite maps are catered a bit more towards guilds and groups of friends who play together all the time. But based on the first part of my response, why should we change the entire dynamics of the game if the majority of people play in this manner (the way I'm referring to).

I may change my view if a dev releases hard evidence that elite maps are becoming isolated and a moot part of the game.

[ShadowGunX]

elite map should go away as it doesn't pay to how mch time wasted nd money on pets nd potions.
normal map mobs drops nothing bt its ok even also elite map mobs too like normal mobs drops nothing to cost even to buy pots. i only find myself wasting money on pots md on boss it is pure luck to get even warchest.

so elite map should go. it is only frustating poor ppl. elite maps shouldnt go if and only if elite boss should drop only elite warchest nd elite pinks. i only get rares nd epics only. got 4 warchest (no golden).

[Rare]

Do we have any hard statistics to back up this claim everyone is making that no one runs elite maps? I find that hard to believe as fact. Personally, in my guild composed of me and my best in-game friend, we run elite maps all day every day and the payoffs are wonderful. Together we've completely geared up 3 toons in full mythic. You just have to know where and how to farm - there is a strategy to it whether or not you believe so.

You don't need statistics. Its easy enough to deduce it from the state of playing.

People ARE running elite. But I can tell you the specific maps that they are running more than any other. By far.

1. Elite Rook's Nest
2. Elite Oltgar Keep
3. Elite Southern Seas
4. Elite Mage Cave (I can never remember what its called)

Try joining a pug, and see how long it takes to get a full group. I know you say you don't do it, but honestly, its the foundation. Especially for newer players. How else you are going to meet people and tell if their play styles are good for you? Going to set up a date and time to do some runs with 3 other people? No. PUGs are how I made the vast majority of my friends in PL. And even in AL during the earlier seasons when people still pugged a lot.

Oh, and the mob scaling, your claim is a little misleading. The difficulty of the mobs do not scale nearly as much with the number of players as it does with level. I do, though, think the sweet spot is 3 players. Less or more than that, and the completion time seems to go up. However, maybe that's because anytime I run elite in a three person party, the other two are very experienced.

In any case, its evident that only a fraction of the population is running elite. If you were around for seasons 1 and 2 then you can see the difference. Even from season 3. Most people now are farming crates and standing in town trying to buy and sell stuff. I have a pretty large friend list I think. When I look down it, only a small percentage are actually in elite. Most are in PVP or in town/guildhall.

[Alrisaia]

elite map should go away as it doesn't pay to how mch time wasted nd money on pets nd potions.

Elite Maps should go away because you’re wasting time, pots, and gold on pets? Why are you doing that?
Elite Runs are all about Risk and Reward.
The Risk: You LOSE gold and you LOSE time (sounds like it’s working right)
The Reward: You GAIN gold and GAIN time. (better gear = faster runs)
In other MMOs the risks were like XP loss when you die – or Corpse Runs (OMG annoying)… if the only risk you have for running elites is losing some gold for pots and wasting time… you’re in good shape mate. I personally belive the Risk Reward Ratio for Elites is right on, and our core group farms the harder elite maps because we are willing to take on the risks for the possibility of lucrative rewards.



normal map mobs drops nothing bt its ok even also elite map mobs too like normal mobs drops nothing to cost even to buy pots. i only find myself wasting money on pots md on boss it is pure luck to get even warchest.

Of course it’s pure luck. Role Playing Games have relied on Luck for Loot since their origination in the 1970s as pencil and paper games using dice. Buy a luck lixer if you use plat to help your odds, OR… get your group together BEFORE getting Klaas. If you get a luck lixer go somewhere you can complete fast like South Seas or Elite Forest… both of those are 5 – 6 minute runs. 7 tops for SS… So, with Klaas’ 30 minute luck lixer you could do 5 Kettle runs or 4 or 5 South Seas runs… the former of which costs almost nothing in POTs, the latter of which is a more advanced run but doable in 7 minutes with a decent group of experienced players with decent gear (champions or bonechill).

You could also run Arcane Grounds – roughly 9 minutes with a good group and TWO chances for elite gear (two bosses), so you get two rolls for chests and that translates into 4.5 minutes / run.




so elite map should go. it is only frustating poor ppl. elite maps shouldnt go if and only if elite boss should drop only elite warchest nd elite pinks. i only get rares nd epics only. got 4 warchest (no golden).
[/quote]
If bosses dropped Elite Warchests and Elite Pinks every time those items would lose their value completely if they dropped every time. Look what happened when Elite Bael bug happened on the day of his release… Noble Armor (previously 400k or so) dropped to 100k overnight… Just saying the Risk / Reward ratio is something that’s different for everyone.

THEN – Mythic Gear would lose value because supply would increase substantially… The chain reaction to this would be astronomical in proportion and I can’t believe I even responded to this part because I KNOW it’s not going to happen.



Running Elites is something of an art that my guild has been working on perfecting. We are efficient, we have fun, and we don’t all have Mythic Gear. In fact most of the guild is made up of average players who want to run elite and couldn’t get groups in the larger guilds. We love running challenging maps and finding new ways to complete them. We love bringing Elite noobs with us and helping them understand the elite strategies which are completely different than normal map strategies of just free for all killing – you actually have to work together as a cohesive group to be effective…

[Taejo]

You don't need statistics. Its easy enough to deduce it from the state of playing.

People ARE running elite. But I can tell you the specific maps that they are running more than any other. By far.

1. Elite Rook's Nest
2. Elite Oltgar Keep
3. Elite Southern Seas
4. Elite Mage Cave (I can never remember what its called)

Try joining a pug, and see how long it takes to get a full group. I know you say you don't do it, but honestly, its the foundation. Especially for newer players. How else you are going to meet people and tell if their play styles are good for you? Going to set up a date and time to do some runs with 3 other people? No. PUGs are how I made the vast majority of my friends in PL. And even in AL during the earlier seasons when people still pugged a lot.

Oh, and the mob scaling, your claim is a little misleading. The difficulty of the mobs do not scale nearly as much with the number of players as it does with level. I do, though, think the sweet spot is 3 players. Less or more than that, and the completion time seems to go up. However, maybe that's because anytime I run elite in a three person party, the other two are very experienced.

In any case, its evident that only a fraction of the population is running elite. If you were around for seasons 1 and 2 then you can see the difference. Even from season 3. Most people now are farming crates and standing in town trying to buy and sell stuff. I have a pretty large friend list I think. When I look down it, only a small percentage are actually in elite. Most are in PVP or in town/guildhall.

There are tens of thousands of players in AL. Your argument about the "fraction of the population" is pure speculation which is derived from your immediate experience and observations of the game (based on who you know and what you do with your time). There's simply no way that you, Aedenos, can speak such a statistic without some insider hard data. But hey, if a dev pops on here and proves me wrong - then I'll gladly shut my yap, apologize, and we'll move on! But until then, please don't condescendingly generalize to me how this game is played.

Everyone experiences this game differently, having different motives for what they want to accomplish. For me, I immediately searched for a guild. In my gaming experience over the years, I learned that taking the guild route is more of a guarantee to enjoy the end-game content in it's entirety as opposed to PUGing it. For others, however, they enjoy PUGs and appreciate the casualness of the game (and perhaps would rather PvP full-time than run end-game content). I appreciate that side of the argument and don't want to see those players quit the game because of this issue. The more reasonable generalization to make is that AL's fan base likes the diversity of the game's content and choose to play AL over other games because of this. I have played PL, SL, and DL on top of currently playing AL. Quite honestly, I think the elite maps idea is a great addition for people who want to go above and beyond casual gaming.

We're still standing here with this problem of elite maps and the dilemma of how to keep things fair for both sides. STS has to make changes that don't completely take away from one or the other. Don't get me wrong - I am not in favor of this game creating an obligation for players to join big guilds. I think PUGs can survive elite maps just fine when there is a constant flow of instances being run on a daily basis - just like in seasons 1 and 2. However, the underlying problem is there are virtually no incentives to run elite maps (for PUGs or guilds) aside from the shear enjoyment of a challenge. I agree with you and Energizeric: crates are an issue. I think they are destroying this game, especially now that you can pop open 100 or so, get almost all of your plat back (to open more) and end up with a handful of mythics. Crates partially eliminate the reasons for running elite maps and destroy the economy. For the purposes of keeping this thread on track, however, let's not get into the detailed discussion of why crates are good or bad.

So to redirect my response to my main point: please add more incentives to run elite maps and kill trash mobs along the way - rather than this ridiculous method we all use of killing the first 20 and running to the end. Some ideas that have been brought up in this thread:

1. Slightly scale elite trash mobs down a bit to make them less time consuming and more desireable to kill (keep reading..)
2. Add unique drops (pinks, eggs) to trash mobs with a reasonable drop rate
3. Add rare mini bosses to some maps to support 1 and 2
4. Augment the existing loot table system of certain bosses dropping certain legendary items (ex: Man Eater drops Noble helms, Grimnr drops Noble chest pieces) to make the other maps desireable
5. Let us run older maps to farm twink gear that will sell

Lastly, this isn't PL, SL or DL. Even though I, too, am guilty of arguing in the past that AL should carry forward some of those games' mechanics, I think its safe to say that its a dead horse. They have expressed countless times that they want each game to be unique and only share some of the basic features of the series. So let's take those arguments off the table for this thread.

[Alrisaia]

There are tens of thousands of players in AL. Your argument about the "fraction of the population" is pure speculation which is derived from your immediate experience and observations of the game (based on who you know and what you do with your time). There's simply no way that you, Aedenos, can speak such a statistic without some insider hard data. But hey, if a dev pops on here and proves me wrong - then I'll gladly shut my yap, apologize, and we'll move on! But until then, please don't condescendingly generalize to me how this game is played.

While I don’t agree with your tone, I do agree with you Taejo – there’s just no way to speculate and be accurate about this…



Everyone experiences this game differently, having different motives for what they want to accomplish. For me, I immediately searched for a guild. In my gaming experience over the years, I learned that taking the guild route is more of a guarantee to enjoy the end-game content in it's entirety as opposed to PUGing it. For others, however, they enjoy PUGs and appreciate the casualness of the game (and perhaps would rather PvP full-time than run end-game content). I appreciate that side of the argument and don't want to see those players quit the game because of this issue. The more reasonable generalization to make is that AL's fan base likes the diversity of the game's content and choose to play AL over other games because of this. I have played PL, SL, and DL on top of currently playing AL. Quite honestly, I think the elite maps idea is a great addition for people who want to go above and beyond casual gaming.

I’m with you on the guild Taejo, although the way I went about this was to level with pugs and when I capped I finally sought out a guild. I ended up in Arcane Fellowship and the rest is history…



We're still standing here with this problem of elite maps and the dilemma of how to keep things fair for both sides. STS has to make changes that don't completely take away from one or the other. Don't get me wrong - I am not in favor of this game creating an obligation for players to join big guilds. I think PUGs can survive elite maps just fine when there is a constant flow of instances being run on a daily basis - just like in seasons 1 and 2. However, the underlying problem is there are
Most Important Point You Made:virtually no incentives to run elite maps (for PUGs or guilds) aside from the shear enjoyment of a challenge. I agree with you and Energizeric: crates are an issue. I think they are destroying this game, especially now that you can pop open 100 or so, get almost all of your plat back (to open more) and end up with a handful of mythics. Crates partially eliminate the reasons for running elite maps and destroy the economy. For the purposes of keeping this thread on track, however, let's not get into the detailed discussion of why crates are good or bad.

The Risk:Reward ratio is a little off… I’m not saying the Drop Rate is off, I’m saying the items we loot are just… meh… There should definitely be risks associated with running Elites. Since the ONLY risk we as players in AL can take is losing gold, or losing time: they’ve done a bang up job in making the risk for elites right on… The problem is that when we DO get that reward – the stats for the items we loot are barely better than the trash pinks coming from crates, which make sense since they want everyone to be able to enjoy the game – especially the ones paying – Don’t get me wrong, the items coming from crates have to be worthwhile or people wouldn’t be opening them and ultimately that’s got to be what’s paying the bills. The problem is that there has to be a clear distinction between the items from crates and the ones from elites – otherwise we are back to


… virtually no incentives to run elite maps …





So to redirect my response to my main point: please add more incentives to run elite maps and kill trash mobs along the way - rather than this ridiculous method we all use of killing the first 20 and running to the end. Some ideas that have been brought up in this thread:

Agreed - although part of the strategy of elites is being able to run through certain parts of the map to get to the boss without getting dead.



1. Slightly scale elite trash mobs down a bit to make them less time consuming and more desireable to kill (keep reading..)
2. Add unique drops (pinks, eggs) to trash mobs with a reasonable drop rate
3. Add rare mini bosses to some maps to support 1 and 2
4. Augment the existing loot table system of certain bosses dropping certain legendary items (ex: Man Eater drops Noble helms, Grimnr drops Noble chest pieces) to make the other maps desireable
5. Let us run older maps to farm twink gear that will sell

1. I don’t think elite trash mobs should be scaled down. Make them more desireable to kill – yes, less difficult? No… but that’s my opinion. I would be worried that the runs would turn into trash mob kill fests and forget the boss... It should still take a considerable amount of time to clear a whole elite map. When I say considerable I mean 20 minutes for a difficult map and 5 for an easier one.
2. Yes! Vixen is a good example of this and has held value rather well.
3. Awesome idea, Mini bosses should spawn and join the fight on top of the trash mobs to make it more fun and challenging, but should have ultra cool loot. They should be rare, but not Bael II rare…  Maybe 1 in 20 runs or so.
4. I’m not quite sure I understand your point here…
5. Agreed – the loot should stay scaled with whatever update / level cap it came with and it should be a random cap – 5 to determine it’s level. Ie: loot from Kraken Isles should be level 21 – 26… from Dead City should be Lv 16 – 21. Also, Allow lower levels into Elite. Right now, you can be lv 26+ to join Elite Forest – Elite Bael but you have to ‘join’ a lv 30+ I’m not sure if this is a bug or not, but I think allowing people to get a taste of Elite isn’t a bad thing.



Lastly, this isn't PL, SL or DL. Even though I, too, am guilty of arguing in the past that AL should carry forward some of those games' mechanics, I think its safe to say that its a dead horse. They have expressed countless times that they want each game to be unique and only share some of the basic features of the series. So let's take those arguments off the table for this thread.
[/quote]
I never played any of these games, nor do I plan to. I have time for only one… :)

[Ebezaanec]

My idea is to implement different elite maps. Instead of time-consuming dungeons where you just dash to the end, the maps would resemble the Shuyal Arena and Skeleton Medley (bard quest) dungeon slighty.

The arena would be an empty square that would spawn a certain amount of enemies (they can be elite/regular mobs) and after that amount is defeated, the elite boss will spawn in the middle of the dungeon.

EX: Rook's Nest Arena- After 300 enemies are killed, Elite Bael will spawn.
EX: Skull Cove Arena- after 500 enemies are killed, Elite Bloodhammer will spawn.

The dungeon wouldn't require a lot of time to traverse, since the dungeon is pretty much a closed system. I would also assume it wouldn't take too much time to design. I got this idea after playing PL's Vyxnaar dungeon for some time.

[ShadowGunX]

My idea is to implement different elite maps. Instead of time-consuming dungeons where you just dash to the end, the maps would resemble the Shuyal Arena and Skeleton Medley (bard quest) dungeon slighty.

The arena would be an empty square that would spawn a certain amount of enemies (they can be elite/regular mobs) and after that amount is defeated, the elite boss will spawn in the middle of the dungeon.

EX: Rook's Nest Arena- After 300 enemies are killed, Elite Bael will spawn.
EX: Skull Cove Arena- after 500 enemies are killed, Elite Bloodhammer will spawn.

The dungeon wouldn't require a lot of time to traverse, since the dungeon is pretty much a closed system. I would also assume it wouldn't take too much time to design. I got this idea after playing PL's Vyxnaar dungeon for some time.

i agree to ur idea. +1 dude
it also resembles to spawn of ulfang nd ubermans.

[ShadowGunX]

Elite Maps should go away because you’re wasting time, pots, and gold on pets? Why are you doing that?
Elite Runs are all about Risk and Reward.
The Risk: You LOSE gold and you LOSE time (sounds like it’s working right)
The Reward: You GAIN gold and GAIN time. (better gear = faster runs)
In other MMOs the risks were like XP loss when you die – or Corpse Runs (OMG annoying)… if the only risk you have for running elites is losing some gold for pots and wasting time… you’re in good shape mate. I personally belive the Risk Reward Ratio for Elites is right on, and our core group farms the harder elite maps because we are willing to take on the risks for the possibility of lucrative rewards.


Of course it’s pure luck. Role Playing Games uhave relied on Luck for Loot since their origination in the 1970s as pencil and papergames using dice. Buy a luck lixer if you use plat to help your odds, OR… get your group together BEFORE getting Klaas. If you get a luck lixer go somewhere you can complete fast like South Seas or Elite Forest… both of those are 5 – 6 minute runs. 7 tops for SS… So, with Klaas’ 30 minute luck lixer you could do 5 Kettle runs or 4 or 5 South Seas runs… the former of which costs almost nothing in POTs, the latter of which is a more advanced run but doable in 7 minutes with a decent group of experienced players with decent gear (champions or bonechill).

You could also run Arcane Grounds – roughly 9 minutes with a good group and TWO chances for elite gear (two bosses), so you get two rolls for chests and that translates into 4.5 minutes / run.




If bosses dropped Elite Warchests and Elite Pinks every time those items would lose their value completely if they dropped every time. Look what happened when Elite Bael bug happened on the day of his release… Noble Armor (previously 400k or so) dropped to 100k overnight… Just saying the Risk / Reward ratio is something that’s different for everyone.

THEN – Mythic Gear would lose value because supply would increase substantially… The chain reaction to this would be astronomical in proportion and I can’t believe I even responded to this part because I KNOW it’s not going to happen.



Running Elites is something of an art that my guild has been working on perfecting. We are efficient, we have fun, and we don’t all have Mythic Gear. In fact most of the guild is made up of average players who want to run elite and couldn’t get groups in the larger guilds. We love running challenging maps and finding new ways to complete them. We love bringing Elite noobs with us and helping them understand the elite strategies which are completely different than normal map strategies of just free for all killing – you actually have to work together as a cohesive group to be effective…[/QUOTE]

kettles drop only in elite rook nest nd brackenbridge brackenbrige. got 4 so far .
i dnt hav credit card neither google card retailers to buy plats.
after seeing ur elite running capabilities it made me think to join ur guild.
d reason i dnt do mch elites coz of unstable ping (specially in elite maps, idk y) nd when dc i cant enter again nd crap gears too lol (m poor, u c i dnt hav credit card to buy plats)

[Rare]

There are tens of thousands of players in AL. Your argument about the "fraction of the population" is pure speculation which is derived from your immediate experience and observations of the game (based on who you know and what you do with your time). There's simply no way that you, Aedenos, can speak such a statistic without some insider hard data. But hey, if a dev pops on here and proves me wrong - then I'll gladly shut my yap, apologize, and we'll move on! But until then, please don't condescendingly generalize to me how this game is played.


In case you didn't know, most EVERYTHING about this game is based on people's experience. Very little is provided in terms of hard data (for example, your claim that 10s of thousands of people play this game. Where is that data coming from?). There is also no data to claim otherwise. Just because you happen to have a group of friends that play very frequently and can always create parties and run all day, I assure you, you are the exception and not the rule. The fact that there are 10s of thousands of players playing AL only strengthens my assumption. The larger the number of players, the less likely it is that EVERYONE is playing in parties and more likely that people are running in PUGs.

Sorry, numbers aren't all that are needed. A little common sense is also useful coming to these conclusions. (Edit: I am not implying you do not have common sense). You are right. There is no hard data to support these claims. But it isn't necessary. PUGs are a perfect medium for gauging this. Its plain to see. These runs are mostly empty save the maps I listed above.

Guild or no guild, its inconsequential. I've been part of medium, very large, and small guilds. It is always the same story. In a mobile game, when you have limited time, its difficult to spend 20 minutes to put together a party to do 1 or 2 runs (anywhere from 8-30 minutes each depending on the map). Those folks that can spend 5-10 hours a day playing, they are not concerned with this.

There was no condescension in my comments. I'm sorry you took it as such. I do, however, feel that it is common sense. And I do feel like some things, in the absence of "hard data", can be easily generalized based on experience.

Also, while I do agree with most of the rest of your post, I must point out. In the first paragraph you went on about how I can't make any condescending generalizations. Then you spent the rest of the post talking about how bad elites are and why people don't want to run them.

[Taejo]

Not sure how I forgot to mention this, but another idea that was brought up in this thread:

6. Make is so timed runs are optional (via the world map, but clicking a check box or something). With this implementation, players could then run elite maps and have people join/leave as they please. This would also compliment the desire for players to run PUGs, I think.

[Rare]

Not sure how I forgot to mention this, but another idea that was brought up in this thread:

6. Make is so timed runs are optional (via the world map, but clicking a check box or something). With this implementation, players could then run elite maps and have people join/leave as they please. This would also compliment the desire for players to run PUGs, I think.

Very true.

[Taejo]

1. I don’t think elite trash mobs should be scaled down. Make them more desireable to kill – yes, less difficult? No… but that’s my opinion. I would be worried that the runs would turn into trash mob kill fests and forget the boss... It should still take a considerable amount of time to clear a whole elite map. When I say considerable I mean 20 minutes for a difficult map and 5 for an easier one.
2. Yes! Vixen is a good example of this and has held value rather well.
3. Awesome idea, Mini bosses should spawn and join the fight on top of the trash mobs to make it more fun and challenging, but should have ultra cool loot. They should be rare, but not Bael II rare…  Maybe 1 in 20 runs or so.
4. I’m not quite sure I understand your point here…
5. Agreed – the loot should stay scaled with whatever update / level cap it came with and it should be a random cap – 5 to determine it’s level. Ie: loot from Kraken Isles should be level 21 – 26… from Dead City should be Lv 16 – 21. Also, Allow lower levels into Elite. Right now, you can be lv 26+ to join Elite Forest – Elite Bael but you have to ‘join’ a lv 30+ I’m not sure if this is a bug or not, but I think allowing people to get a taste of Elite isn’t a bad thing.

I should emphasize that this list is from the other contributors of this thread, not simply my own. The idea behind #4 is basically spreading the legendary items out among the elite bosses, giving you a specific reason to kill each one. Such as it EDIT: currently is in Kraken and Nordr, certain elite bosses drop unique legendary items. Also, the non-elite counterparts drop specific eggs, e.g. Man Eater drops Mercury, Alpha drops Kelvin, Frostbite drops Harley, and so on (sorry if I got those mixed up). Therefore, if a player wants a Nordr Jewel of Brutality, they must go kill elite Alpha for it. This type of loot system encourages players run other maps so that none of them become "dead" (obsolete, basically).

However, the problem we ran into with Nordr was in regards to Elite Mines of Nordia being introduced to the picture. This addition to the campaign gave players little reason to run the normal elite maps due to the same loot being offered within the mines (at a much better drop rate, I think). This instance was open for several weeks, and many players quickly geared up during this time. Those of us who chose not to spend plat on instances such as Elite Mines, however, continued trudging through the normal elite maps and either got lucky finding what we wanted or just continued to save up enough gold to buy our desired items from the CS. Fast forward to present day with the Shuyal Arena raining Noble chest pieces - why run Elite Grimnr anymore?

I guess the arena type maps aren't a bad thing. I certainly take advantage of and farm the Shuyal Arena to make gold. But if elite maps are taken away and these elite arenas are all we're left with, the dynamics of loot within them will have to be changed. Add more variety and lessen the drop rates, for starters.

[Kjalisi]

I came back to this thread out of interest to see where it had gone and wanted to post again!

Firstly some of the problems people are seeing could be easily overcome for example:

1) Egg drops. I presumed when I first read this post that it would function like this:

Normal maps scale up to player level. Perhaps that means you can't run your friend through all of the first few maps in 15 minutes but surely that's not a necessary part of the game and it just means everyone will have to progress fair and square through the game with no shortcuts.

Regular <scaled> bosses (think regular Jurn woods) would have a chance to drop elite chests. Rare spawn elite bosses would spawn in their given map, and eggs and specific elite gear would drop from those.

So regular Bael would now give a fair chance at an elite golden chest II, while "Elite Bael" would now be the boss where you dropped Malison. Given the amount of runs you need to do anyway to drop malison, this could be tweaked so that Malison had the exact same drop rate as before. The probability of finding Elite Bael would be very low, but the chance to drop Malison would be higher, so it would balance out.

2) Luck elixirs. This becomes problematic because many people farm with luck elixir and can get many boss fights out of one half hour elixir. This is also easily dealt with: sell a luck elixir which lasts less time: 10 minute luck elixir for 2 platinum which could be bought upon sighting an Elite boss. Depending on the difficulty of the boss or on what you are farming, you can buy the 10 minute luck, or the half hour one if you just want to farm crates from regular bosses (regular but not as you know them... I hope).

3) Tanks.
Yes on first sight it does seem like it would be difficult to maintain the key place in a party for a tank, as even the end game campaign maps do not really require one at the moment so even if all of the maps scale, its possible they would still end up being doable without a tank. I believe Carapace posted on solution to this above which would be to just change the pull patterns of the mobs in normal maps (though this would make it difficult for solo and PUG players), and their necessity in the raid style dungeons.

I saw someone suggested "elite oasis areas" above which brought to mind a simple way to deal with the homeless tank issue.

The rare elite bosses have (elite) minions. Perhaps not a LOT of minions, but something similar to elite glob where two minions spawn halfway through the fight, or similar to Bloodhammer where a large group of minions spawns also halfway through. Them spawning halfway through the fight would also mean that they weren't lying there in wait of low levels who chanced upon the elite boss but would only spawn after a group had made a good start on attacking him. This would work well if the elite bosses all appeared in "offshoots" of the map such like the ones where mini bosses in kraken and nordr currently appear.

On a last note there's always a "what if" ... surely if there IS a change to the system, working out how to most efficiently play it would also be part of the fun...

[Crowsfoot]

Uhm, why would I want to farm normal dungeons. I already get bored doing elite mages mines, at least elite nordor maps require me to focus. If I can solo harvest elite golds it destroys there worth and thus everything else in game becomes cheaper. So now I have to sell 5x the items for the same outcome.
Basically you just don't like using any potions. I vote no to dropping elite.

[Swede]

We've decided to keep the Elite maps for now. What really made up my mind was the role of the Warrior. That's not to say we still don't want to find a different solution but there are several things we have to address before we do (figure out how to make Warriors more useful against easier opponents as well as against bosses etc).

The feedback have been fantastic and you're welcome to keep it going, I will keep looking at the thread.

Thanks everyone!

[Pandamoni]

I think the elite maps might get played more if people knew that if they DC they can rejoin their group. I wonder if adding the option to have the run be timed elite or untimed (no chance at leader boards but team mates can get back in if they drop) might make a difference and help solve the issue of the difficulty of finding a good pug in elites. (or any pug at all. Ifi forget to dismiss my pet, I shouldn't have to stand there long enough tht he needs to get fed in order to even get a run started.)

[Alrisaia]

We've decided to keep the Elite maps for now. What really made up my mind was the role of the Warrior. That's not to say we still don't want to find a different solution but there are several things we have to address before we do (figure out how to make Warriors more useful against easier opponents as well as against bosses etc).

The feedback have been fantastic and you're welcome to keep it going, I will keep looking at the thread.

Thanks everyone!


Thank you - now I don't have to pay any plat to change our guild name to <Runners> :) That's awesome Swede and I can't wait to see what you're going to throw at us in Elite Shuyal!!! :)

[Taejo]

I think the elite maps might get played more if people knew that if they DC they can rejoin their group. I wonder if adding the option to have the run be timed elite or untimed (no chance at leader boards but team mates can get back in if they drop) might make a difference and help solve the issue of the difficulty of finding a good pug in elites. (or any pug at all. Ifi forget to dismiss my pet, I shouldn't have to stand there long enough tht he needs to get fed in order to even get a run started.)

Yes, this is a solid point within the thread. I appreciate Swede's response - but was hoping for a hinting of what's to come in terms of changes to elite maps. I think the option to make an elite run timed or not timed would be the best starting point for STS to resolve the resentment of elite maps. Letting people come and go in Elite maps would only foster a better community within the game, not to mention provide a quick solution to lost connections or people leaving being the cause of not finishing a map.

[Alrisaia]

I think the elite maps might get played more if people knew that if they DC they can rejoin their group. I wonder if adding the option to have the run be timed elite or untimed (no chance at leader boards but team mates can get back in if they drop) might make a difference and help solve the issue of the difficulty of finding a good pug in elites. (or any pug at all. Ifi forget to dismiss my pet, I shouldn't have to stand there long enough tht he needs to get fed in order to even get a run started.)

++; to this from me as well.

[FluffNStuff]

We've decided to keep the Elite maps for now. What really made up my mind was the role of the Warrior. That's not to say we still don't want to find a different solution but there are several things we have to address before we do (figure out how to make Warriors more useful against easier opponents as well as against bosses etc).

The feedback have been fantastic and you're welcome to keep it going, I will keep looking at the thread.

Thanks everyone!

Great! Now start a thread to figure a way to get all these scattered players into the same game. There HAS to be a way!

[Zanpakuto]

We've decided to keep the Elite maps for now. What really made up my mind was the role of the Warrior. That's not to say we still don't want to find a different solution but there are several things we have to address before we do (figure out how to make Warriors more useful against easier opponents as well as against bosses etc).

The feedback have been fantastic and you're welcome to keep it going, I will keep looking at the thread.

Thanks everyone!

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors! Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning. It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro. I ran some non nordr elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.

[Swede]

I think the elite maps might get played more if people knew that if they DC they can rejoin their group. I wonder if adding the option to have the run be timed elite or untimed (no chance at leader boards but team mates can get back in if they drop) might make a difference and help solve the issue of the difficulty of finding a good pug in elites. (or any pug at all. Ifi forget to dismiss my pet, I shouldn't have to stand there long enough tht he needs to get fed in order to even get a run started.)

Agreed, a big problem. The quick solution, get rid of timed runs on Elites. The long and new tech solution, allow an option to run either timed or not. It's definitely one of the most important things for us to address with Elites though.

[Pandamoni]

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors! Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning. It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro. I ran some elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.

You're running with the wrong people. I invite whichever tank is on my friend list. If someone can play well, even if theyre not in mythics, they'll get added to my friend list. And I do prefer to run elites with a tank. It is quite nice. The problem isn't not having mythics, the problem is many tanks don't use taunt skills and then get oissed off when the mages can't provide one hundred percent crowd control and also keep mana and health charged.

[Alrisaia]

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors!

Really? Why would end gamers drop from the game again? after investing all that time to cap? People with that kind of dedication don't throw their arms into the air and rage quit a game because they don't have the BEST gear in the game...


Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning.

All Elite items are expensive mate - and nobody is forcing anyone to run elites here - this is simply an option... if you don't want to run elite, don


It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro.
Warrior's armor DOUBLE? Remove Mages Aggro from Heal??? Risk:Reward mate Risk:Reward... the fundamental balance that must stay intact here is risk and reward if it gets out of whack - too many people run elites and too much elite gear goes on the market, thus making it rediculous to try to farm it and make any real gold and work toward mythic items, ultimately causing people to farm crates instead of elite items which is right back where we are today.


I ran some non nordr elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.
If that's what you want to do - then great, continue to run non-Elite Nordr Maps and farm those eggs and items. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! There are plenty of noob tanks in my guild that get invited every day to elites. Elite difficulty level doesn't change who gets invited and who doesn't. People do.

Sorry - I just think sometimes that people think that everyone who runs elites are elitist snobs and I disagree - while some will only run with others who have the best gear and they're doing it to farm and earn gold and that's who they chose to run with fine, but not everyone in the community is like that.

I've made it a point to maintain my Elite Pink gear instead of mythic - even when I buy Mythic I won't wear it all the time - just to prove a point that Elite runs ARE possible WITHOUT Mythic Gear. Mythic Gear makes your stats better - Skill and spec make your toon a valuable asset to a group - and YOU are the one who has to tap the buttons in the right order to make your toon most effective... I am in fact still wearing an EPIC Ring. The only place I run is in Elite. I oftentimes survive when the tank dies if my skills are used properly and I have the right pet.

[Zanpakuto]

Really? Why would end gamers drop from the game again? after investing all that time to cap? People with that kind of dedication don't throw their arms into the air and rage quit a game because they don't have the BEST gear in the game...

-I was actually speaking of the new players from 1-36 for the first time. Once they get to cap, trust me they will have next to no cash. But I'll get into that later.

All Elite items are expensive mate - and nobody is forcing anyone to run elites here - this is simply an option... if you don't want to run elite, don

-Argument here is fine and dandy, but if you're not geared up, you will not be running elite period. Can't run, can't make money, all your pugs will fail and you will stress and quit. Why play a game when u there's nothing to do after cap?

Warrior's armor DOUBLE? Remove Mages Aggro from Heal??? Risk:Reward mate Risk:Reward... the fundamental balance that must stay intact here is risk and reward if it gets out of whack - too many people run elites and too much elite gear goes on the market, thus making it rediculous to try to farm it and make any real gold and work toward mythic items, ultimately causing people to farm crates instead of elite items which is right back where we are today.

-Argument is flawed and I can tell that you are someone who probably has the best team ready to go on an elite run at a fingers touch. If STS wishes to stay at the number 1 spot for mobile MMORPG gaming, they need more players. New players simply wouldn't have much interest in this game because the difficulty level has risen too high without spending real hard cash. I know because many of my friends have quit for this very reason

If that's what you want to do - then great, continue to run non-Elite Nordr Maps and farm those eggs and items. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! There are plenty of noob tanks in my guild that get invited every day to elites. Elite difficulty level doesn't change who gets invited and who doesn't. People do.

-kudos to u if you do do that, but given the choice between a geared up player vs a noob player you'd eventually stop choosing the noob. Great guild if you keep inviting all your members to elite though!

Sorry - I just think sometimes that people think that everyone who runs elites are elitist snobs and I disagree - while some will only run with others who have the best gear and they're doing it to farm and earn gold and that's who they chose to run with fine, but not everyone in the community is like that.

-I think all new players should join your guild!

I've made it a point to maintain my Elite Pink gear instead of mythic - even when I buy Mythic I won't wear it all the time - just to prove a point that Elite runs ARE possible WITHOUT Mythic Gear. Mythic Gear makes your stats better - Skill and spec make your toon a valuable asset to a group - and YOU are the one who has to tap the buttons in the right order to make your toon most effective... I am in fact still wearing an EPIC Ring. The only place I run is in Elite. I oftentimes survive when the tank dies if my skills are used properly and I have the right pet.[/QUOTE]

-Yes trust me I do this too. I actually own some of the best gears, but don't use them purely because certain situations epic is actually better for STR as an example. No real point to argue as elites still live another expansion, but if we had access to the number of new accounts /players I'm absolutely positive that the quitting ratio has increased since kraken Isles. People like us probably won't quit because we've invested so much time farming and it's interesting how STS is updating the game towards people who are the wealthiest in the game. Timed run with mythic rings prizes was the perfect example. I guess we oldies are spending tons of money on plats! It's the new players that I believe STS has started to ignore and you will never see their opinion on the forums because they just wouldn't make it this far to care. I must speak for them :)

[rushmore]

I've got a lvl31 rogue and a lvl24 mage, been playing this for maybe 3 or 4 months now and i can tell you I'm only continuing to play this game until a viable alternative comes on the market (tbh i barely even play when i do sign in, i mostly chat now as helping guildies had become pointless since the new 'scaling' on normal maps). I'm noticing alot of my guild members get to the low 20s levels then just stop playing (coincidence that this is around dead city scaling?) i myself am currently stuck at kraken with my mage, being a casual gamer it has become a chore to play now. If this scaling idea sticks then i will be deleting my account, along with some friends who have said they will do the same, and just pay something else. This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun. The last several weeks have been completely void of this. Disappointed.

[Zanpakuto]

I've got a lvl31 rogue and a lvl24 mage, been playing this for maybe 3 or 4 months now and i can tell you I'm only continuing to play this game until a viable alternative comes on the market (tbh i barely even play when i do sign in, i mostly chat now as helping guildies had become pointless since the new 'scaling' on normal maps). I'm noticing alot of my guild members get to the low 20s levels then just stop playing (coincidence that this is around dead city scaling?) i myself am currently stuck at kraken with my mage, being a casual gamer it has become a chore to play now. If this scaling idea sticks then i will be deleting my account, along with some friends who have said they will do the same, and just pay something else. This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun. The last several weeks have been completely void of this. Disappointed.

Glad to see you chime in, your opinion matches that of many casual players that STS has started to ignore. I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests! Dev's should pay closer attention to people like you :)

[Rajnikanth]

i completely agree with zanpuk and rush.
m lvl31 warrior and lvl30mage. m playing since season 1 so m quite rich.

well upto season 2 it was good. pugs were also good. bt when mythic comes to play and season 4 is worst for me atm. cant do elites unless there is good tank or mage. bosses were too hard.
elite enemies r now scaled in such way that even full on mythic player tends to spam alot pots and drop rates too r crap.

also an average party cant kill any normal nodr boss.

m quite frustrated to play this game so i quit warrior and playing mage instead. it is going ok bt at lvl30 enemies r too difficult. soloing elites at lvl30 is out of question.

now i question myself y i play this game lol.
atm i quiting and again i will return when new expansion comes.

[rushmore]

Glad to see you chime in, your opinion matches that of many casual players that STS has started to ignore. I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests! Dev's should pay closer attention to people like you :)
I'm pleased other people are noticing it too, i see alot of folks on here saying the challenge is good and they like it being more difficult, and that's fine for those who can master advanced techniques/call upon awesome team mates/have masses of disposable funds available...but it does feel like the 'little guys' are being slowly forgotten about. I can sink a few pounds into a mobile game every month or so, but this game requires almost a constant trickle of cash injected in to be able to roll with the latter maps/bosses. If I'm going to spend upwards of £30 on a game I'll buy a console game that is a one-time purchase with as much chance of progression as anyone else who buys it. What with enemies now scaling to highest player level, and respawns costing plat unless you want the walk of shame (usually arriving just after boss is killed so no loot), this game is looking more and more like a pay-to-win brag-fest for the rich kids with mythic gear, arcane pets and mummy's credit card. The gulf is widening and it ends with the casual gamer looking elsewhere.

[Taejo]

This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun.

I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests!

A mobile game it may very be (hybrid actually, many people play on PC, too), but it's an MMORPG genre game. Since the creation of RPGs, they have never been as 'casual' as you're describing you want them to be. I'm sorry, but perhaps you've ventured into the wrong genre of online games. I have been enjoying RPGs since pen & paper Dungeons and Dragons to the very first MUDs (Runescape, etc.), and there has never been any sense of 'casualness' that would let a player do anything productive while standing in line to get coffee. If that's your gaming style, I think MMORPGs may not be right for you.


soloing elites at lvl30 is out of question.

Right. Soloing end-game elite maps is pretty much out of the question period, for L30 or L31. Regardless, I don't think elite maps are really meant to be soloed anyway. The design fosters assembling a solid team and using strategy.


...that's fine for those who can master advanced techniques/call upon awesome team mates/have masses of disposable funds available...
...this game is looking more and more like a pay-to-win brag-fest for the rich kids with mythic gear, arcane pets and mummy's credit card...

Let's leave money out of this thread, please. It's not constructive input, simply because it's a generalization that is not proven to be true in every player's experience of the game. I am one of the people on the "keep elites" side of the argument. However, I do not plat revive, buy elixers, or have "disposable funds" available. And yet, through hard work, making friends, and adopting strategy into my play style, I've managed to get most of the achievements, find a spot on the LB, and make enough gold to buy my toon's mythics. Yes, this all takes a lot of time. Which is why I'll say again that MMORPGs are not designed for a gamer who only wishes to spend 30 minutes a day doing something.

[Alrisaia]

I'm with Taejo - MMO is an acronym meaning:

Massively Multiplayer Online I really think that the two terms - Massive and Multiplayer need to be stressed here... what other multiplayer game with this level of content can you think of that you can play in a coffee line? If you can think of one - maybe that's the right one to be playing...

This game fills a niche that no other game that I've found fills. It's game mechanics are albeit simple, there's things for casual players to do, as well as hardcore gamers. There's no reason why a casual player shouldn't be able to enjoy this game - getting onto the LB, or running Elite is something that takes dedication as well as time - but more importantly it takes relationships. Relationships are what will keep people playing this game, more so than any content they can throw at us.

[Haligali]

Pls, just leave it as it is.

[Energizeric]

Agreed, a big problem. The quick solution, get rid of timed runs on Elites. The long and new tech solution, allow an option to run either timed or not. It's definitely one of the most important things for us to address with Elites though.

How about you don't have to choose, but the system decides for you. If a player joins a run after it has already started, the timer goes off and you can no longer do a timed run. So if a player gets disconnected, he can rejoin, but the team can no longer get credit for a timed run if he rejoins. I think 99% of teams do not care about timed runs.

[falmear]

How about you don't have to choose, but the system decides for you. If a player joins a run after it has already started, the timer goes off and you can no longer do a timed run. So if a player gets disconnected, he can rejoin, but the team can no longer get credit for a timed run if he rejoins. I think 99% of teams do not care about timed runs.

I agree with this, please cancel the timer if someone joins the map after the timer is started. This way people who are disconnected can join or you can invite someone else mid way through. Don't lock the map once the timer is started and cancel the timer if someone joins the map when the timer is running.

[Energizeric]

I think that solution would work very well. Remember, the main reason people don't do elite maps is fear they will get part of the way through and not be able to finish. That's why PUGs don't do elites very much.

If I could start an elite dungeon by myself (very slowly and one elite mob at a time) and then have the possibility that players would join to help me, and then even if some left along the way, others could join and helm me finish, then I would be spending half my time there. Unlike most players, I have tons of patience. Problem with the current system is if I start doing an elite map by myself, it gets locked and there's no way I will be able to beat the boss by myself.

I remember in PL many players used to do the mount fang dungeons by themselves, and then PM their friends "free boss" so others would join to help fight the boss and get the easy/fast loot. It would be nice if that was possible in AL.

[Ebezaanec]

I think that solution would work very well. Remember, the main reason people don't do elite maps is fear they will get part of the way through and not be able to finish. That's why PUGs don't do elites very much.

If I could start an elite dungeon by myself (very slowly and one elite mob at a time) and then have the possibility that players would join to help me, and then even if some left along the way, others could join and helm me finish, then I would be spending half my time there. Unlike most players, I have tons of patience. Problem with the current system is if I start doing an elite map by myself, it gets locked and there's no way I will be able to beat the boss by myself.

I remember in PL many players used to do the mount fang dungeons by themselves, and then PM their friends "free boss" so others would join to help fight the boss and get the easy/fast loot. It would be nice if that was possible in AL.

The problem is with the timer for elite dungeons. If you had an option to turn the timer off, then it would make it a regular elite map instead of always timed.

[Taejo]

I agree with this, please cancel the timer if someone joins the map after the timer is started. This way people who are disconnected can join or you can invite someone else mid way through. Don't lock the map once the timer is started and cancel the timer if someone joins the map when the timer is running.

I don't think the timer necessarily has to stop for this to work. They can have the code let the timer continue and still implement Energizeric's idea - just have a message in the chat box come up "Timed run cancelled" or something. I for one like seeing my time in elite runs because it also gives me a general sense of whether or not I should even attempt to beat a LB time. Either way, the idea is good and will solve a major problem the game currently has.

[Rajnikanth]

rofl.
first solve the party bug when bael shows.
some of my frnd invited me bt i couldnt join since showing game full or reserved bt there r 2frnds only

[Energizeric]

I think if STS can handle it, it's a nice idea to have both the elite dungeons and have some elite bosses show up in regular dungeons the way bael 2 and krunch 2 do. That way if you don't want to run elites you can still run regular dungeons looking for elite bosses. You can also farm for eggs (rooks nest?) or crates (KM3?) and earn money that way. And if you have put together a good party and want to run elites, you can do that too.

But I do think the elites should not all scale up. In the last expansion, the original elite dungeons only scaled to 26. So now in the next expansion I think dead city should only scale to 31, and so on. So there should only be the current expansion and the previous 2 that will scale to cap level. The others should start to slow down. That way there will even be elite farming for twink items later on.

[Taejo]

I think if STS can handle it, it's a nice idea to have both the elite dungeons and have some elite bosses show up in regular dungeons the way bael 2 and krunch 2 do. That way if you don't want to run elites you can still run regular dungeons looking for elite bosses. You can also farm for eggs (rooks nest?) or crates (KM3?) and earn money that way. And if you have put together a good party and want to run elites, you can do that too.

But I do think the elites should not all scale up. In the last expansion, the original elite dungeons only scaled to 26. So now in the next expansion I think dead city should only scale to 31, and so on. So there should only be the current expansion and the previous 2 that will scale to cap level. The others should start to slow down. That way there will even be elite farming for twink items later on.

I agree with 2 campaigns being scaled to the L35/36 level (Nordr and Shadows), but have Dead City scale up again? Are you sure you didn't mean to say Kraken? I think they need to start providing the opportunity to farm twink gears now rather than wait, or (EDIT: a good amount of the end-game) fan-base won't last until the L41 expansion. An example of how they can begin to allow this:

Level bracket: Campaign

L15/16: Brackenridge
L15/16: Rook's Nest
L25/26: Dead City
L30/31: Kraken
L35/36: Nordr
L35/36: Shadows

** As Energizeric suggested in a prior post: Keep all forms (normal, Banded, Pirate, Warchest) of elite Copper, Silver and Gold chests (but please don't rename them "III" - in fact, just take away the roman numerals all together). Modify/maintain their loot to contain level bracket-specific loot - specifically legendaries/mythics.

[Anymove]

I think if STS can handle it, it's a nice idea to have both the elite dungeons and have some elite bosses show up in regular dungeons the way bael 2 and krunch 2 do. That way if you don't want to run elites you can still run regular dungeons looking for elite bosses. You can also farm for eggs (rooks nest?) or crates (KM3?) and earn money that way. And if you have put together a good party and want to run elites, you can do that too.

But I do think the elites should not all scale up. In the last expansion, the original elite dungeons only scaled to 26. So now in the next expansion I think dead city should only scale to 31, and so on. So there should only be the current expansion and the previous 2 that will scale to cap level. The others should start to slow down. That way there will even be elite farming for twink items later on.

Very agree with this one.

[Szangheili]

Oh yes! Please put this into the game ASAP! :D

[Haligali]

I agree with you, finding bael more time consuming than the hardest elite maps, and depends on pure luck. 100+ runs at normal windmoore/mount/crystal/skull so boring.
Also dont really like the arena, that is for rogues, elite bosses without mobs.
I like the challenge of elite mobs, they need crowd control.

This is what im talkin about:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xkHCy-v030

as a mage i really enjoy this map, but dont like the boss arena.


Maybe it would be a good idea to have some elite mobs (dropping more - like 200 gold - for each killed mob) instead of an elite boss (in arena or spawning on normal maps)? Or a new challenge arena with just wave of mobs?

This sounds awesome for me.

[Valsacar]

Something like the current spiders in nord, wave after wave. Each time (say maybe 10 waves) there is a mini boss, after that it starts over but slightly stronger. Starting out as normal mobs, but many waves in being closer to elite. The gold and loot drops would scale with the strength of the waves.