Open Discussion-Rushing

[Cascade]

Ok maybe I'm just stupid but what's wrong with rushing? I could see that if your a new player and you power lvled and never actually went through and never actually played the game that would be stupid, yes...But if you already went through the game and you just want to save time by rushing instead of going through the tedious process of clearing to get to the boss what's wrong with that? Rushing saves time. And I like to save my time because I have a life to live with school and stuff...So could someone please xplain to me what's wrong with the rush?

[Arterra]

in general once people start rushing, people with intents to level those last few levels would never find a party to go with.
I myself rush, but I have to admit the community in game leaves little other way.

[Cascade]

Predicition-Royce will post here ;)

[Royce]

I don't have time to leave the detailed multi-point response I'd like to, but maybe later. In general, the problem is nobody actually plays PvE anymore because rushing is so easy. PvE team play is the most polished aspect of PL, and the rush completely kills it. Not only does the rush mean almost nobody is even playing PvE, but it also means that many players Dont even know how any more. What's even the point of rushing to acquire top gear that you don't actually ever need because you just pot up and rush? Sure PvP, but PvP is still a bit of a sideshow in this game. Anyway, it is destroying this game in a zillion ways. I will answer more in depth later but maybe someone else will have already covered it by then.

[Arterra]

I'll cover for u!!

Rush
= dumbs you down
= kills teamplay
= ruins rarity
= makes the game boring fast
= tempers upon fail
= "omg noobi lv 43... boot reason:j trololol" (even when cap was 45)

[Drewl90]

it's pretty true actually. it does kill teamplay definitely. I've recently been playing with pubs and many of them don't know a thing about finding the quickest way to kill the aliens.

But i feel that they need to make the PVE aspect more interesting. Usually when i'm lvling in ao3, i fall asleep because it gets so tedious and boring.

I have no idea how to make things more interesting, but we really need something that will wake us up when playing PVE.

[Cascade]

I get your point Royce but, why should I waste my time clearing?

I've been with teams that can kill the overlord in 1 Min...Are you saying you wouldn't learn teamwork from killing bosses?

[kurl]

WORD!
i have school friends girls .. alot of stuff i just like to rush

[Cascade]

I agree with Drewl I mean when your lvling your just sitting there tapping...How interesting is that?! Not even interesting at all...we need other stuff that gives us xp and make lvls more interesting than just...tap....tap...tap...tap....

[jonboy]

I'll add some more

Not everyone wants to hurry, what if I want to clear and your point that you have to rush as you have a life is just bizarre

Emphasis on royces point. What are you rushing for if your not using your uber gear, except to rush more.

I've seen groups that were casual but good clearing a map because that's what they enjoy, that broke up when someone joined and starts going come on rush, why are you noobs you fail, and the group then falls to the rush bully and they fall in line or they leave.

Also this.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Time to die.

[smoae]

I kind of agree...
pros of rushing...
-doesnt take long
-dont have to go through tedious mobs
-easy way to get good items
cons of rushing
-decreases rarity and price of items
-people who need to progress are screwed
-eliminates teamwork

I think whats the best thing about this game is not getting the best items, but just having a good time with friends and laughin when u die and stuff. rush kindof eliminates this, so thats why i dont really like it. i can see how some people like it though.

[Cascade]

Once I get my gear I stop rushing then I just enjoy the game.

EDIT: I usually rush to get items to sell them.

[jonboy]

@smoae, this.
"but just having a good time with friends and laughin when u die and stuff. rush kindof eliminates this"

Point.

[Royce]

Once I get my gear I stop rushing then I just enjoy the game.

The problem is you won't. Because there will be no groups to actually play with. Currently I would estimate over 99.9% of games are rushing, or grinding shadows. So the rush needs to be fixed if we are going to have fun in this game again.

[FluffNStuff]

I'll add some more


I've seen groups that were casual but good clearing a map because that's what they enjoy, that broke up when someone joined and starts going come on rush, why are you noobs you fail, and the group then falls to the rush bully and they fall in line or they leave.



This is exactly why they need to add the drop in glitch to the hot tubs in AO3. When someone comes in and tries to get the group to rush, you just unburden some gear, hop in the tub, and wait. Sooner or later, the group will get wiped, and some will bail. You can then join the ones left and continue your clear. First place for one, the King Minas level on Victory Lap. Seen SOOOOO many groups die there thinking they can rush it.

Oh, and by the way, Blade Runner FTW!

[Justg]

We are definitely looking into it.

[Cascade]

If I wasn't having fun I wouldn't keep playing PL...Therefore I am having a lot of fun playing PL rush or no rush :) I don't know why you guys arnt having fun.



@Justg-Perhaps we could figure out a compromise between rushers and non-rushers.

[Royce]

We are definitely looking into it.

This is awesome to hear.

[Drewl90]

yeah i'm fine with rushing and not rushing as well. :) haha.
not rushing is a bit tiresome though.

but for now, i rather the admins focus on getting the auction house and implementing guilds first.

[Snakespeare]

There's nothing wrong with it, really, it just should be done in private. Put on a password and invite your friends who also like to rush.

But do NOT do it in public maps. That's just rude. Especially if you are using a level 50 in a map for level 25s. They come in thinking they will get to fight the boss, and some rude person rushed it. So they clear all those hallways only to get NO CHANCE for their rightfully earned prizes.

In respawning maps, whether you rush or not is irrelevant.

I think all these problems are solved by letting us put a byline on a game saying that it is farming or XP or clearing the map. Then we can join games of like-minded people, and everyone will have more fun.

[Cascade]

Clearing the level is super repetitive...tap tap tap....that pretty much sums clearing up...if the devs could make clearing more interesting I would definitely clear...maybe if there was an advantage to clearing over rushing?

[cry]

Look I started playing ao3 a little later than every body else I found some things that were very wrong.

No one clears, only rushes, making it very hard for lower level players to level up, let alone beat the later levels.
Rushing requires little skill... Half your uber gear you never need, so many new level fiftys do not know how to actually clear dungeosn effectively.
Rarity of items is way off, ubers should be gotten after the work of clearing a map then killing the boss!...

[Snakespeare]

Every game is repetitive. Solitaire, bowling... You don't only bowl the tenth frame, do you?

[smoae]

simple solution: before you start playing the game, you select rush, farm, ex farm, etc. if someone wants to rush, they join a game thats labeled rush. if someone wants to farm, they join a game labeled farm, and etc.

[cry]

Smoae heres the problem; who wants to clear? It is not anything else, it is just that everyone rushes and basically makes this game into well makes it way less fun.

[Snakespeare]

simple solution: before you start playing the game, you select rush, farm, ex farm, etc. if someone wants to rush, they join a game thats labeled rush. if someone wants to farm, they join a game labeled farm, and etc.

Ah, a very smart person. Look back a few threads. You and I are of like mind on this.

[Drewl90]

Ah, a very smart person. Look back a few threads. You and I are of like mind on this.

haha i see you're having an attempt to claim ur smart too. :P

[smoae]

Ah, a very smart person. Look back a few threads. You and I are of like mind on this.

lol whoops made a thread on it sorry. oh well lol

[Chickdigcookies]

i dont know. i honestly dislike rushing because no one plays. People say "i enjoy rushing" when all youre doing is running from one end to another and spamming your rotation at the boss. if thats the case, run from forest haven to frost town and unleash until you go out of mana.

people who rush are after 1 thing. money. loot = money. rushing = faster loot = faster income source.

if youre playing PL to play the economy, how sad.

The fact that these maps are PvE (Player versus Environment) means you have to KILL THE ENVIRONMENT. How many of you bitch that you cant level to 50 because no one is clearing maps? A lot.

I remembered when people would rush AO2:4 after the lance. The rush took 3-4 minutes full group...only bears. A full cleared took 5 minutes...with 2 people. Me and someone else cleared first 4 maps of AO2 in 20 minutes. Why did i do it? Cause i liked it. Its fun. And i enjoyed it.

[Snakespeare]

lol whoops made a thread on it sorry. oh well lol

Yes, I made a suggestion thread that was very detailed. I suggested, also, that we be able to throw a switch saying we need a particular type of character, like if the party has no mage.

But what will no doubt really happen is, what they did to Haunted Mansion will be done to AO3. When they fixed the rush in Haunted Mansion yesterday, more than one dev posted that they are watching the result and if it is successful they will apply the fix more widely. And it was successful. So...

[cry]

i dont know. i honestly dislike rushing because no one plays. People say "i enjoy rushing" when all youre doing is running from one end to another and spamming your rotation at the boss. if thats the case, run from forest haven to frost town and unleash until you go out of mana.

people who rush are after 1 thing. money. loot = money. rushing = faster loot = faster income source.

if youre playing PL to play the economy, how sad.

The fact that these maps are PvE (Player versus Environment) means you have to KILL THE ENVIRONMENT. How many of you bitch that you cant level to 50 because no one is clearing maps? A lot.

I remembered when people would rush AO2:4 after the lance. The rush took 3-4 minutes full group...only bears. A full cleared took 5 minutes...with 2 people. Me and someone else cleared first 4 maps of AO2 in 20 minutes. Why did i do it? Cause i liked it. Its fun. And i enjoyed it.

Amen, brother. Also what these people play is PvB.

[Drewl90]

haha but hey. business is part of the game, and i guess everybody wants to get strong and awesome as quick as possible.

humans tend to do all sorts of things to find the fastest way to achieve something. I guess you can't blame the rest of us for just being human. :)

[Snakespeare]

I remembered when people would rush AO2:4 after the lance. The rush took 3-4 minutes full group...only bears. A full cleared took 5 minutes...with 2 people. Me and someone else cleared first 4 maps of AO2 in 20 minutes. Why did i do it? Cause i liked it. Its fun. And i enjoyed it.

It is way more enjoyable. That's why I take my XP-frozen level 14 into Dark Forest. Nobody farms there. Nobody kills the fun. Nobody is out to just get the pink. Nobody whines when the drop doesn't hand everyone a spacesuit. It's only about actually playing, and that's why it is fun. Same for an xp-frozen level 19 in Balefort. People are in there playing. They are having fun. They aren't yelling at each other and saying GoGoGo, and such. They are just trying to complete the map without dying, and to see what they get. You never hear them complaining.

It seems that when we rush we are looking for instant gratification. The problem with that is, the gratification lasts an even shorter time than it took to get. When you have to climb a tree to get the apple, it tastes better, not because it IS better, but because you savor it.

I got a pink yesterday. It was a Hook Staff of Osiris. It is possibly the worst pink in the game. I hardly did anything for it, just joined a game that needed a tank and helped out for one room. I looked at the darn thing and gave it to the host. He had earned it, and I had no use for it whatsoever. He was like, thanks buddy that was really nice. He appreciated it more because he worked for it. I bet he doesn't try to sell it (even though nobody would buy it anyway) because it means something to him.

Anyway... me on a soapbox again...

[smoae]

some of my favorite times in the game are not when i get a good item, but when i'm playing ao3 with just me and my friend and we die like 100 times and when we finally get to boss we just get crappy purps. not about just getting the best items. what do you do after you get all the best items? no point in sellin, stuff, cause you dont need to buy anything. no point in pvp because youll just kill everbody cause you have best gear. only thing left to do is to just lay back and have some fun with your friends.

[Ony]

I think this thread is going to encourage that the sqeeky wheel gets the grease and that is very wrong IMHO.

I rush and i clear... I also let my 5 year old nephew play the game...

My 2 cents

Rushing is not a skill-less part of the game... I good rush team is co-ordinated to the absolute extreme. A poor rush team frustrates the best and worst of us. This frustration im sure is equal on both sides regardless of your preferance. People good at rushing will always find a way to get the job done fast and effectively... You can not nerf skill. Rushing=Racing=Time Trial=Fun.

Removing or nerfing will destroy a large player base, that enjoys this type of game play... Remember these people payed for content too, and this is what they enjoy doing with it.

Tweak the UI, not the mechanics.

Nerf the GD snipers!!!

[setec]

I'm all for the labeling of games. I can join a game with a level requirement and my preference of rush, clear, XP, etc.

When I max a character, I like to join rushing games to try and get better pinks. I don't do it for the money. Someone said that rushing is done for money. Not me. I've never had more than about 50k ever in the game. I don't get pinks to sell. Not sayin I won't sell when AH comes out but I don't spend my time in Haven spam selling.

The fix is to allow game types.

[Gryndeon]

I actually get a rush out of rushing. It poses a different level of challenge and excitement, especially for squishy mages, to get through an entire mob without dying. It's almost the same rush I get when playing in the lower levels (before level 40). The loot is secondary.

I guess to each his own.

[cry]

I actually get a rush out of rushing. It poses a different level of challenge and excitement, especially for squishy mages, to get through an entire mob without dying. It's almost the same rush I get when playing in the lower levels (before level 40). The loot is secondary.

I guess to each his own.

Do you happen to also do cocaine while rushing? Because getting a rush from pl is, is well... can you get a rush from a video game?

[jonboy]

lol Cocaine is a hell of a drug. :)
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/119875/i-m-rick-james-bitch-o.gif
(http://www.gifsoup.com/view/119875/i-m-rick-james-bitch-o.gif)

[cry]

"I dunno peter meth is one hell of a drug"

[Cascade]

I find rushing more difficult and requiring more teamwork...I mean not any rushing team can get through a mob full of aliens...

[smoae]

lol Cocaine is a hell of a drug. :)
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/119875/i-m-rick-james-bitch-o.gif
(http://www.gifsoup.com/view/119875/i-m-rick-james-bitch-o.gif)

Lol why would you post this?
What good does it do anybody?

[cry]

Lol why would you post this?
What good does it do anybody?

Proves his point, what else?

[smoae]

Proves his point, what else?

He proves his point of supporting rushing by showing a video with people high on cocaine.
Genius, how did I not think of that?

[cry]

Yer, is that not how you prove your points?

[Quew]

I can see why some like rushing but i hate stumbling into a rush group. What makes the game fun for me is the unpredictability of a full clear. Every run is different in a full clear and the people in the group make it interesting. Like, ive never made a friend or gained respect for another player during a rush, but have many times during full clears.What bores me the fastest is rushing a boss. I dont feel connected to the group at all.

[jonboy]

Lol why would you post this?
What good does it do anybody?

1. I've been waiting for a chance to refer to Charlie Murphie's Hollywood Stories for ages.
2. Because I can.
3. Excellent example of how your life can go down hill as a "Rush Addict".
4. Because, the pros and cons have been put for both sides if the issue and now people are just stating what side of the fence their on.

5.Cause I'm Rick James..Bitch!!


He proves his point of supporting rushing by showing a video with people high on cocaine.
Genius, how did I not think of that?

Umm please re-read my comments, I'm not Pro-Rushing or any kind of illegal stimulate use. :)

[markus]

is there any rares that drop off basic mobs? Maybe have low drop rate for uber gearz off trash mobs?

Unless they already do, then disreguard this post...... lol

[Gavry]

As an active supporter of Crush the Rush, I'll throw in my points.

The biggest problem with Rushing is it reduces the longevity of the game. If all people did was rush and farm the main bosses in Victory Lap continually, everyone would have all the equipment they wanted within a few weeks. Then the inevitable occurs again:

1. I'm Bored!
2. Give us a new map!
3. This game sucks, there's nothing to do!

The result is there is pressure on the Devs to build new maps or start losing players. That then delays the development of key features of the game as all time is spent on new maps.

If everyone had to actually 'Play' the game to get the equipment they wanted, each new map set would have a much longer lifespan, resulting in more time for the Devs to work on other aspects of the game. Who else wants, Auction House, Guilds, Pets, Skill/Attribute overhaul, etc?

While I'm on my rant I think XP pots should be removed from the game, or maybe have them only be effective if you are 10 levels below the current level cap.

It just feels like the majority of players are of the, I want it ALL and I want it NOW, generation. What's wrong with actually working for something? It is ultimately much more rewarding when you achieve it.

If people really like the Rush aspect of the game why not add the following:

1. Able to buy the best items in the game with plat.
2. Able to buy levels with plat.

What's the point of actually playing the game if you rush? May as well just log on when a new map set comes out, purchase your next 5 levels of xp, buy all the best items and then sit about moaning about nothing to do for 3 months until it all happens again?

You need to look outside the square. Why are drop rates so low on bosses? Because if they were higher they would be so common with the current rushing in place. Stop the rush and the devs can up the drop rate, add challenges and variety in the game to give us more to do.

My biggest gripe with Rushing is it absolutely KILLS any semblance of teamwork, community and fellowship in the game. People jump in and out of maps like hot potatoes. Quit a map the first time they die. Nobody helps anyone any more. Nobody teaches anyone. There is just this blanket line, your a noob, that is throw around. Why are people noobs? Nobody spends the time to assist, point out the flaws in their game-style, help them to improve. Nobody can learn this game through rushing. I remember fondly, back to the days of Swamps, when groups were king, Teamwork ruled, and everyone knew and respected each other. That is all lost now, and the Rush is, in my opinion, the major contributing factor.

[Koriella]

If the ability to Rush is done away with, The price of Rare Pinks will greatly increase. Supply demand issue here. The quicker Pinks enter the game, the more common they are, the more common they are the cheaper they are!

That is the only pro I can think of for Rushing.

Fixes that I can think of off the top of my head have been mentioned in numerous posts but I will add them to this discussion:

1. Create a "Trash" mob loot table that has several pinks in which you can only obtain by clearing mobs.

2. Alter loot tables of Bosses if trash is cleared vs if the map was rushed

3. Create objectives that help with the re-playability (is that a word)? of maps when doing full clears.
Example:
Boss has Loot table X (Desirable Pinks) if map is full cleared within 10 minutes and boss is dead within 12 minutes of entering map, otherwise Loot table Y (Less desirable pinks)
Boss has Loot Z (most desirable pinks) table but each person gets 2 drops if map is full cleared within 8 minutes and boss is dead within 10 minutes of entering map

4. If map is cleared in a certain order, then allow each respective Character (Warrior, Bird, Mage) to get drops for their respective class only.
I would like to see some sort of implementation of class only drops. nothing pains me more than seeing a mage get a warrior drop when you (as a warrior) need desperately.

I'm sure I can think of dozens more, but I think I will stop here.

[reddragon72]

I hope that this is not an issue in a month when I get to play. I'm hoping for new people who will want to group up and play through the right way, and if now then I'll just have to trudge it alone the best I can. I have played DDO and other MMORPG's and I seen rushing all the time and just steer clear of those groups. Maybe Markus will run some maps with me since we are both starting out, that way I can avoid rushers who will kill my fun experience in the game.

And the Dev's can implement a switch that can mark a group or game as rush only with a little symbol next to the game name. That would work.

[CanonicalKoi]

Rushing can be fun, if the whole group is onboard with it from the get-go and people aren't pressured into it. I played with a lower-level friend yesterday--the poor guy had spent days trying to get people together so he could finish the Keeper level and move on. It was annoying as heck to me to be a 49 and not able to answer invites because I couldn't find a group willing to finish Captive Audience (I think it was). I kind of like the mobs before the bosses--it gives you a chance to get familiar with the others' playing style. You can see their strengths and weaknesses (and they can see mine) before the rubber meets the road with the boss.

I don't get the "Gold Rush" mentality, though. Rush to get stuff to sell, to buy more stuff so you can get stuff faster to sell to buy more stuff......it's like a George Carlin routine.

[Riccits]

the loots of bosses are completeley random or does it exist a system to know how the drops will be...?

[Chickdigcookies]

is there any rares that drop off basic mobs? Maybe have low drop rate for uber gearz off trash mobs?

Unless they already do, then disreguard this post...... lol

no sadly there is no pinks off trash mobs...its been suggested.

[CanonicalKoi]

the loots of bosses are completeley random or does it exist a system to know how the drops will be...?

Bosses drop specific speciality items and other things as well. It's totally random whether you get the good goodie or a not-so-good goodie.

Reddragon, there's been a number of threads from and about those who like to clear levels. Take a look at them and keep those folks in mind when you're adding to your friends list. I'm one of them, so feel free to add any/all my chars. I've got a couple newer, lower-level ones, so we don't have to worry about the whole power-leveling vs learning to play problem. We'll just clear levels and have fun. Full is mandatory. ;)

[Royce]

People saying the rush takes skill, sorry but you're totally wrong. 2 minutes of instruction, and half a brain, and you can be good enough. People who say PvE is repetitive, that's not an argument. Nothing is more tediously repetitive than the rush. It's exciting like the very first time, then you barely have to pay attention til the last moment. People who say they enjoy that style of play, well the thing is it's ruining the game on the whole. And the game will have a lot of trouble attracting new players if they can't even level up and unlock maps. Plus many real players who actually like to play the game will eventually lose interest (many already have) if things continue this way. But fine if you actually want to claim it's somehow fun, then how about just much better drop rates from bosses on cleared maps. I mean if you really "like" rushing then that should be a fine solution as long as you can still pick up pinks as fast as a clearer that's fair. Anyway the fact is the rush is ridiculous. In no game should something so crazy be possible except far below your level. It was a mistake that it was ever possible, it's deteriorated the quality of PvE play in PL to almost nil, and it needs to be crushed.

[reddragon72]

Reddragon, there's been a number of threads from and about those who like to clear levels. Take a look at them and keep those folks in mind when you're adding to your friends list. I'm one of them, so feel free to add any/all my chars. I've got a couple newer, lower-level ones, so we don't have to worry about the whole power-leveling vs learning to play problem. We'll just clear levels and have fun. Full is mandatory. ;)

I will keep you in mind when the android app gets here. Ill be playing the first few days solo so I can get the interface and gameplay down and then ill start jumping into groups. I'm a casual(not really just a ton of "real life" stuff going on) gamer though and i doubt ill be on everyday. This looks like such a good game and now that I'm hearing that there are "normal" groups that play the game the way it was intended makes this thread less of a worry for game play.

[Royce]

I will keep you in mind when the android apparently gets here. Ill be playing the first few days solo so I can get the interface and gameplay down and then ill start jumping into groups. I'm a casual(not really just a ton of "real life" stuff going on) gamer though and doubt ill be on everyday. This looks like such a good game and now that I'm hearing that there are "normal" groups that play the game the way it was intended makes this thread less of a worry for game play.

No you should be worried. There are people who play through, but they are few and far between. If you set out to find these games, it may take you hours at times to get into one. Almost nobody clears in AO3 and it's a very serious issue for players who need to level and unlock. Anyone who denies this is just fooling themselves. I don't even try to host clearing games anymore because nobody will stick around except for underlevel, inexperienced players. I don't blame the players for taking advantage of the quick and easy rush, but it's something the devs need to fix.

[Cascade]

You kinda crack me up lol...you guys act like this is a really bad problem and if the devs don't fix it the world is gunna end...Well I have this for you-ITS JUST A GAME! Chill out and play it.

[Royce]

You kinda crack me up lol...you guys act like this is a really bad problem and if the devs don't fix it the world is gunna end...Well I have this for you-ITS JUST A GAME! Chill out and play it.

It is a big problem Cascade, and it is ruining the game (has been since AO2, and to a lesser extent even longer. I would love to play the game. Unfortunately, it's only once or twice a day maybe that I find groups playing through anything but CtK and those groups generally flee at the first sign of a boss.

[Cascade]

I love PL with or without clearing...Both rushing and clearing is fun...I have to admit that rushing is harder...to me at least maybe its a piece of cake for you guys but to me rushing is a lot more exilirating and harder to me....Imagine killing everyone...OR booking it all the way to the boss with 20 aliens breathing on your back and laser flying past you....To me rushing takes more teamwork to make it all the way to the boss AND Kill it.

[cry]

*Plugs ears* rushing is bad, just like mar-jewana is addictive x)

[reddragon72]

*Plugs ears* rushing is bad, just like mar-jewana is addictive x)


Are you being facetious?

[BurnYugo]

Hi all, i didn't read all topic, but i'll give my point of view.
I love rush and i do only that.
Rush doesn't mean no fun, i just spent four hours of rush on lord and gurgs boss, and it was really funny in our team, also it is always funny in our team.
Rushing is a different pleasure, and i'm totally sure it doesn't break the game.
There is enough people for rush and farming team.
The only bad thing in rush is that we boot people who don't buy pot and who are not lvl 50.
Just let people do what they like and don't blame them.
If you like rush, find a team to do that, and if you like farm all mob, you will find without any problem a team.
Also, 80% of my xp was done by rushing, so it doesn't break the xp farming.

[cry]

Are you being facetious?

No I am stating facts. Just like shrooms are addictive, so it has been said.

[Gryndeon]

I don't think the two camps will ever agree on this issue, but here are a few points I have always wanted to make about this topic and in response to a couple things that were brought up.

1. There are many playing styles, and rushing is just one of them. You are not forced to join rushes. Why should rushers be forced to join clearing games?

2. Video games are addictive. Deal with it. This is my first rpg (like I told a friend, everything I know about World of Warcraft I learned from South Park, and this type of game is completely new to me), so yes, I get a rush out of playing it. I wouldn't play it if I am not having fun. When it's no longer challenging, then I'll find something else to do. I don't do drugs, I don't smoke, I don't even drink. So I wouldn't understand the reference to cocaine.

3. When in doubt, I go for more freedom than less freedom. I like people to be able to determine for themselves what they can and can not do. I don't like changing the rules because some people are offended or think they know better than others what is good for them.

4. I like the level of difficulty of ao3. I played all the levels the first day ao3 came out, and it was like solving a puzzle. Everyone was level 45, so it's not like we had to find a higher level to help us. Maybe that explains my lack of sympathy for the argument in support of oh, those poor lower levels who can't get the evil higher levels to get them through the game. We did it, so can you. It took us a while to get through the entire maps. Don't plead for higher levels to make it easier. If they want to do it, that's great. But don't kill their rushing game just so you finish in 5 minutes what took us much longer to do.

5. I do help lower levels get through the maps, costing me money in pots every time. But I do it voluntarily. I do not force anyone else to do the same thing.

6. Finally, I normally do not go back answering threads multiple times because internet discussions always devolve to flame wars. So I'm off to read something else. Thanks for reading.

[Royce]

Hi all, i didn't read all topic, but i'll give my point of view.
I love rush and i do only that.
Rush doesn't mean no fun, i just spent four hours of rush on lord and gurgs boss, and it was really funny in our team, also it is always funny in our team.
Rushing is a different pleasure, and i'm totally sure it doesn't break the game.
Actually it does, but you wouldn't know that since you yourself admit you never play any other way ;)

There is enough people for rush and farming team.
The only bad thing in rush is that we boot people who don't buy pot and who are not lvl 50.
Those are not the only bad things (try reading a thread next time before posting), but they are a couple.

Just let people do what they like and don't blame them.
I don't blame the players for doing it. It's super easy with a quick return. However, it's tearing the game apart, and I do blame the devs for not fixing it.

If you like rush, find a team to do that, and if you like farm all mob, you will find without any problem a team.
Also, 80% of my xp was done by rushing, so it doesn't break the xp farming.
That first part is just plain false. I spend every day looking for decent teams clearing maps, and very rarely find one. However, since you admit to not ever doing anything but rushing you are really in no position to make that claim anyway. The last part is just crazy. If you are rushing, you are gaining about 1 XP per run (a boss gives the same XP as any mob). So how exactly you can level rushing is beyond my comprehension...

[Cascade]

I think reason the devs haven't nerfed rushing is because they know they will lose players....Royce, just how is rushing tearing the game apart?

[BurnYugo]

Well i just tryed to find a team to farm all map and it took me 3 seconds to find one.
I made a second try and i found a team in 5 secs.
Are you on a different server Roy?
Also i repeat, rushing doesn't mean no fun, and i already farmed all map to compare don't worry ;)

[BurnYugo]

I think reason the devs haven't nerfed rushing is because they know they will lose players....Royce, just how is rushing tearing the game apart?

TRUE!
The devs know that if they make impossible the rush, they will lost a lottttttsss of players.

[Cascade]

I don't think the two camps will ever agree on this issue, but here are a few points I have always wanted to make about this topic and in response to a couple things that were brought up.

1. There are many playing styles, and rushing is just one of them. You are not forced to join rushes. Why should rushers be forced to join clearing games?

That right there is so so so very true...Why should we be forced to do only clearing when you guys are not forced to rush?

[Royce]

TRUE!
The devs know that if they make impossible the rush, they will lost a lottttttsss of players.

Actually, the devs have said they simply haven't nerfed it because it's complicated to do. I think they realize it needs to be done. If it is not, they will continue to lose players who want a real MMO, as they have been to this point. They will also have serious trouble attracting new players who will simply be frustrated by the lack of available clearing games. And Burn there was not enough time between my post and yours for you to actually find those games and finish them. So how do you know they cleared, and what did you do just join then bail on the team?

[reddragon72]

That right there is so so so very true...Why should we be forced to do only clearing when you guys are not forced to rush?

This is why I made a statement earlier, that the devs should have a switch installed that shows whether a party is rushing or not. No need to get rid of it, but a clear indicator would fix the issue for those of us that don't want to(not playing yet still waiting on the android app). But it should also be said that rushing is not what the creators had in mind when the game was created, it is an exploit that players find, and exploits are always found in games. That is just the way it is.

[BurnYugo]

Actually, the devs have said they simply haven't nerfed it because it's complicated to do. I think they realize it needs to be done. If it is not, they will continue to lose players who want a real MMO, as they have been to this point. They will also have serious trouble attracting new players who will simply be frustrated by the lack of available clearing games. And Burn there was not enough time between my post and yours for you to actually find those games and finish them. So how do you know they cleared, and what did you do just join then bail on the team?

They will lost lots of players if they block rushing as same as they will lost players if we must rush and can't clear.
There are enough players to play the 2 different way.
I just joined a team, asked if they will clear all, and they said yes, then i left.

[BurnYugo]

Rushing is an exploit? what you mean?
Rushing is possible on every mmo.

[cry]

Okay for all those who say rushing games should be marked, NOT THE POINT. The point is when rushing is avaible no one clears, making it very hard for any lower levels or to beat or level on any new map.

[Royce]

This is why I made a statement earlier, that the devs should have a switch installed that shows whether a party is rushing or not. No need to get rid of it, but a clear indicator would fix the issue for those of us that don't want to(not playing yet still waiting on the android app).
This unfortunately would not be enough. Nobody is forced to rush it's true, but because it's so easy, and so hard to find games doing anything else, everybody rushes. It's the tragedy of the commons played out PL style. Everyone does what they think is best for them in the short term, and as a whole it ruins the game in the long term.

But it should also be said that rushing is not what the creators had in mind when the game was created, it is an exploit that players find, and exploits are always found in games. That is just the way it is.
Well said. And this is why, despite all the whining from people who don't actually even like the game as it was intended to be played, the rush will be crushed :D

[BurnYugo]

I persist, joining a team who clear all map is very very easy.
And without rushers, most of people were not able to wear all that new stuffs we rushers farmed.

[Royce]

I persist, joining a team who clear all map is very very easy.
And without rushers, most of people were not able to wear all that new stuffs we rushers farmed.

This is just plain not true. I have been trying for weeks, and even if it's true that you are finding games today (which I highly doubt) the fact is this has been a problem reported by many players leveling up, so your experiences are the exception. The fact is it's impossible to find clearing groups. XP farming groups are out there but generally bail before the boss.

[cry]

I could not find even one game that was clearing, the only map they were clearing if I found one was map two.

[FluffNStuff]

First, my stance: I am both for and against rushing. I enjoy it sometimes, and I enjoy grinding some times. I am getting quite tired of rushing though, and the reason I keep it up now is because those are the only games I can usually find with skilled players. The thing is, I am not entirely convinced that the rush is the reason I can't find good grinding games, and the rush really might not be to blame here, but I am curious to find out what is.
To find out, I need a question answered, but unfortunately everyone thinks they know the answer, but ONLY the Dev's do. How many clearing AO3 games are going on at a given time. Just because I do not see them listed, does not mean they are not there. Now people have said they have done 'research' by refreshing the screen a bunch, and they are only seeing Crush the Keeper and Victory Lap Rushes, but consider the following:

Average time it takes to rush Victory Lap : 2-5 minutes.(Plot hole on low side, Gurgox/Keeper on High) Five players required, so disappears and pops back up on average every 3 minutes. Empty ones sit there for a couple minutes.
Exact time it takes to Corner Kill XP Farm in Crush the Keeper : 6 Minutes (1 minute to get everyone together, 5 minutes of xp pot, remake) Usually has 5 players, so pops up every six minutes and disappears. empty ones sit there for a few minutes.
Amount of time it takes to XP farm the shadows: Completely random, can be unlimited. Number of players needed: At least 1, rarely full, so these game can sit on the board forever.
Amount of time needed for a poor grind game:45 minutes to an hour. Number of Players: Turnover is fast in these games, as people are constantly leaving because they died, and others are joining, so they pop up often on the list.
Now consider a grind game. If doing one level, can take anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes or more depending on skill. The good ones have 5 players, fill up fast, and disappear from the board for anywhere from 20 minutes to hours depending on how many boards they play. And they usually stick around the whole time, so these are the least likely ones you will see.


So what I am saying is just because you only 'see' rush and xp farm games, does not mean they are the only ones there. And consider this, if they nerf the rush, you will see EVEN less, and it will be even harder to join a game, as the 5 minute games will now be half hour games. To get an idea for your self, spend some time looking at your friends list. How often do they 'disappear' and come right back? If it is every couple minutes, then they are rushing. If it is steady, then they could be in town sitting, but it is also a good chance they are in a game grinding, and you just don't see it. So my point is, maybe its not the rush to blame, but the 5 player instance limit.

[Royce]

Fluff I would still contend that by constantly checking and refreshing the join screen for periods of up to a half hour, over a period of weeks, that's pretty solid evidence that very few people are clearing. Not to mention all the players I have run into in game that were overwhelmed with frustration from not being able to unlock maps or gain XP anywhere besides CtK. Sure clearing teams are out there but it's very, very rare. And just try to host a clearing team. Unless you assemble it before setting out, it's impossible. Nearly every player who joins will tell you they want to rush or just leave when you say you're clearing. Only lower level players who want powerleveling will stay. The devs have made it too easy to bypass the game entirely and just rush bosses, something that should by all rights be impossible.

[BurnYugo]

I'm starting to consider that you just hate rush, and you just want us not to rush too.
I just asked a friend who were back 3 days ago, and he told me, he had no problem to find people to clear room and to be lvl 50.
Make friends, host a map, and invite them ;) , maybe some people forgot that way to clear.

[Chickdigcookies]

with all this said, the rush will be nerfed soon. and for the players theyll lose? so? with droid and pc coming new players will play. hopefully rushing will be nerfed before they come, that way they dont pick it up. some people are just stubborn, and dont know when to quit. all i read is "rushing is fun", "rushing takes skill" (btw youre a moron), "i get a rush". sorry but youll have to play the way this game was intended to play.

they nerfed powerleveling. now its time to nerf the rush.

and yes, we know you have a life.

[BurnYugo]

Ahah let nerf the rush, after that i already know wich topic will be make, people will cry cause they are booted because they don't rush well or because they badly skills.
Well i'm joking, but don't talk about what you don't know, nobody can say "well after that' devs will nerf the rush"
Maybe it's a good idea in fact, because if they block the rush, less rare pinks will be drop, then the price will rise up a lots, and i'll become more millionary with what i have in stash ;)
Remember that guys, block the rush and price will rise up a lot, maybe you didn't think about that ^^
So blocking the rush will make a tons of other problem, devs knows that too.
And it's not because we will must clear all map that low level will be accept in fast kill team.

3 of my friends lvl 45 went lvl 50 easily this week, and others can't? lol this is a pure joke.
As i said, make friends, host a map, and invite them ;)
And if low level can't kill boss, they can join a rushed map and kill only minions to go to a higher lvl map.

[Cascade]

If the devs actually made it so you can't rush that would be retarded...What's wrong with rushing? You guys are so set in your cozy little spot about no rushing that your absolutly blind!

[Royce]

Ahah let nerf the rush, after that i already know wich topic will be make, people will cry cause they are booted because they don't rush well or because they badly skills.
Well i'm joking, but don't talk about what you don't know, nobody can say "well after that' devs will nerf the rush"
Maybe it's a good idea in fact, because if they block the rush, less rare pinks will be drop, then the price will rise up a lots, and i'll become more millionary with what i have in stash ;)
Remember that guys, block the rush and price will rise up a lot, maybe you didn't think about that ^^
So blocking the rush will make a tons of other problem, devs knows that too.
And it's not because we will must clear all map that low level will be accept in fast kill team.

3 of my friends lvl 45 went lvl 50 easily this week, and others can't? lol this is a pure joke.
As i said, make friends, host a map, and invite them ;)
And if low level can't kill boss, they can join a rushed map and kill only minions to go to a higher lvl map.

Whatever dude, after your forum exploits yesterday (trying to defend your heinous in game behavior, then bashing americans), I really don't think many people care much about what you have to say, and it's quite clear you are full of hot air. Also congrats on having tons of fake play money that you see fit to brag about. Hope that works out for you ;)
Facts:
There are essentially no clearing games because of the rush.
Nerfing the rush would cause some discontent, but would in the end do far more good than bad for the game.

[Cascade]

The way I look at is this way-If I want to clear I simply click "host game" Invite people that want to clear and wow! I have my very own clearing party! How hard is that? I say don't nerf rushing completely but make it so if you clear the map you have a greater advantage of getting a pink than if you rushed...that way you could still rush if you wanted to but the clearers would also be content.

[Chickdigcookies]

If the devs actually made it so you can't rush that would be retarded...What's wrong with rushing? You guys are so set in your cozy little spot about no rushing that your absolutly blind!

are you serious? whats wrong with rushing? have you not been reading the ****ing posts? use your head kid.

go play WoW and ask them to rush IC.

[BurnYugo]

Whatever dude, after your forum exploits yesterday (trying to defend your heinous in game behavior, then bashing americans), I really don't think many people care much about what you have to say, and it's quite clear you are full of hot air..
Ahah i asked myself when you will talk about that, but remember who started to be racist about french, about me i was just joking about a popular video on youtube, don't be annoy ;) i forgave you boy ;)

[Chickdigcookies]

Ahah i asked myself when you will talk about that, but remember who started to be racist about french, about me i was just joking about a popular video on youtube, don't be annoy ;) i forgave you boy ;)

youre honstly a moron. welcome to my ignore list.

[Cascade]

If the devs made clearing actually fun and interesting and if it had an advantage over rushing I would clear...but clearing is repetitive...and boring...and does not have an advantage over rushing

[Koriella]

Currently people rush for a couple reasons:

1: They can! Of course if there is a short cut with a high reward, they will participate!
2: Clearing the board takes time, and I feel as if the "rewards" are not on par with the time dedicated to a full clearing, which points us back to #1


MMO is all about time spent vs reward received.

I feel as if in the current state of the game, rushing is justified due to the low reward aspect of the loot received in a time vs reward scenario.

Yes, I agree if rushing were simply just blocked, with no other aspects considered, it could possibly ruin or harm the game, which is probably why the dev's are taking their time to get the fix "right".

Requiring a clearing before boss attempts the devs must consider end rewards (boss drops) vs time required to getting to the ends. if you spend 3 hours clearing (over exaggerated to prove a point) and you had a 0.001% chance to receive a pink, no one would bother playing.

if on the other hand, pinks would drop from every mob in the zone, everyone would have uber gear and again, the game would be pointless. It's a fine line between time spent vs reward received.

[Snakespeare]

If the devs actually made it so you can't rush that would be retarded...What's wrong with rushing? You guys are so set in your cozy little spot about no rushing that your absolutly blind!

Cascade, I thought you wanted an open discussion. Calling other people absurd, retarded, etc., only shuts down openess. I think it is important that both sides of this discussion put their points as clearly as possible. People should not have to justify their positions. They should feel they can say what they want without worry that someone who disagrees will get angry.

[BurnYugo]

youre honstly a moron. welcome to my ignore list.

Well should i care? lol really not.

[Chickdigcookies]

If the devs made clearing actually fun and interesting and if it had an advantage over rushing I would clear...but clearing is repetitive...and boring...and does not have an advantage over rushing

and rushing isnt repetitive and boring?

[Royce]

Ahah i asked myself when you will talk about that, but remember who started to be racist about french, about me i was just joking about a popular video on youtube, don't be annoy ;) i forgave you boy ;)

I know you were provoked by someone's unnecessary comment, and that's why I didn't respond, but you still cranked it up to another level which was completely uncalled for, and the fact is that now-deleted thread itself exposed what sort of a player you are, sitting afk while a team clears, only to join in on the drop. Anyway, I don't want to take this important thread off topic, so I'll just put you on forum ignore, and keep your forgives to yourself, I don't need one ;)

[Cascade]

K snake...and chill guys I don't want this to be a hatefest....I also don't want any one hating me because of this debate..

[Royce]

If the devs made clearing actually fun and interesting and if it had an advantage over rushing I would clear...but clearing is repetitive...and boring...and does not have an advantage over rushing

Playing through maps is the essence of this game. If you find it repetitive and no fun, then I'm sorry but you really don't like this game...

[BurnYugo]

Well block the rush, roy and his friends will clear room for rushers ^^
Maybe this can be a good idea lol to equilibrate ^^

[Cascade]

I'm sorry I worded it wrong....I like clearing it is fun but it does get boring after you do it all the time it does get a little boring...Rushing can get boring too...but I don't want the devs to nerf rushing completely cuz it is fun...but so is clearing.

[Snakespeare]

All the creativity the devs put into this game is being abused. Purples, for instance, with their cool names and sets and all the imagined characters behind them, are totally meaningless because of the rush. People don't want purples. In dark forest, it is exciting to get a green. But due to the rush, in AO3, most of the pinks are considered crap, not to mention the purples.

Do you cheat at solitaire? Nobody is looking. Why not? Because it ruins the game. You don't actually win, because you know you cheated.

Repetition is part of every game. Why play poker if you don't want repetition? Why bowl? Why play baseball? Why tennis? It's just repetition. You can't name me a game or a sport that is not repetitive. If the repetition is not fun, find a game whose repetition you do like?

The rush will be nerfed. The reason is simple. These guys worked hard and put a lot of creativity into this game. The did not take their draws for months. They worked on their dream and they listened to our feedback, and they clearly really care. Now they see how the rush has made much of their work irrelevant. And now they know how to fix it. So, because they were motivated by more than money, because they are craftsmen and artists, they will do what it takes to make their creative work meaningful again.

Therefore, those of you who think the rush does NOT make their creative efforts meaningless had better start making your case. So far the only argument has been in favor of greed, acquisitiveness, and ego. Those arguments are not going to change their minds.

[Cascade]

When you put it that way it sounds like they actually should nerf the rush....But...the "rush" is now part of the game...the devs waited to late

[Justg]

When you put it that way it sounds like they actually should nerf the rush....But...the "rush" is now part of the game...the devs waited to late

It's never too late :D

[Snakespeare]

Well, they created special places just to make it more fun for people who only want to kill the boss, like the respawning dungeon with Zyla Doom. Yesterday someone was asking where to farm level 19 pinks. It is Zyla doom's dungeon, of course. That was one way they tried to compensate. I am sure there will be hidden grates and such once the other towns are made. This is to replace the rush. I find the respawning maps to be quite fun, and you can clear or rush, if you dare. Some for Vyxnaar's place. Level 25s can go there and just fight skeletons. Or level 50s can ignore the skeletons and wait for vyxnaar.

[Royce]

When you put it that way it sounds like they actually should nerf the rush....But...the "rush" is now part of the game...the devs waited to late

Better to solve the issue now before the huge influx of players comes with the Android and PC releases, then never. The core of the game still exists underneath, waiting to be enjoyed, and people who have become rush addicted will adjust or leave to be replaced by the hordes of new players sure to come to a real MMO, not a gimicky 1-trick pony that the rushing version of PL has unfortunately deteriorated into at this point.

[Cascade]

True....thanks guys...after this long debate I am finally convinced that rushing should be nerfed...but...there should also be ways to compensate with the nerf...

[Snakespeare]

As my wife is fond of saying, regulation breeds innovation. I am sure that the path of least resistance will carve a new flow. It always does.

[BurnYugo]

I really don't understand what is the problem between rushers and you roy, i got some ideas but i'm sure it will make you more more nervous.
Guys if you don't want to rush, just don't, what's the problem with that?
Rushers give a lots of benefit to you, don't forget that ;)
And you really don't imagine what kind of problem will happen if they block the rush, you are really far away from the reality.
As i said, and as people do, make friends, host a game and invite them, not our fault if you don't have some.
Want to stay alone? just stay alone and leave us in peace.

Hakuna Matata ^^

[Gavry]

I really don't understand what is the problem between rushers and you roy, i got some ideas but i'm sure it will make you more more nervous.
Guys if you don't want to rush, just don't, what's the problem with that?
Rushers give a lots of benefit to you, don't forget that ;)
And you really don't imagine what kind of problem will happen if they block the rush, you are really far away from the reality.
As i said, and as people do, make friends, host a game and invite them, not our fault if you don't have some.
Want to stay alone? just stay alone and leave us in peace.

Hakuna Matata ^^

You NEED to actually READ other peoples posts. I can't see how you can continually repeat that there is nothing wrong with it with all the feedback others are giving. Read early posts by myself and Royce. All the key points as to why Rushing is bad have been covered in detail.

[FluffNStuff]

You NEED to actually READ other peoples posts. I can't see how you can continually repeat that there is nothing wrong with it with all the feedback others are giving. Read early posts by myself and Royce. All the key points as to why Rushing is bad have been covered in detail.

Please add BurnYugo to your ignore list. Or least don't quote him in the response, as it seems so much nicer with his pointless drivel just not there.

[Snakespeare]

You are saying that Royce doesn't have friends? Not only is this the opposite of truth, it is totally off topic as well as insulting.

But, the past is dead... *bonk* ... Ouch! ... Why are you rubbing your head, it is in the past ... It hurts! ... Oh, you see? The past may be dead, but it still hurts. :) hakuna matata, baby.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aj0MB8PHD-c/TC0wbmwMYzI/AAAAAAAAARw/kO-Ni7jeFL8/s1600/Rafiki2.gif

[knockk]

make the game levels so difficult that one person cannot solo the victory lap in ao3...make bosses require a fully equipped team of specific classes in specific quantitys. i havnt played many mmo's..but in ffxi, most of the elite items dropped from monsters that took over 18 characters and up to 4-5 hours to kill. there was no possible way one guy was gona walk up and solo everything, like in pl. raise the level caps, increase the amount of players per team, and make monsters near impossible to defeat. throw in an auction house too plzzzzzzzzzz :)


edit. i was too lazy to read everyone elses posts so if i repeated someones stuff, i apologize

[SlipperyJim]

Well, they created special places just to make it more fun for people who only want to kill the boss, like the respawning dungeon with Zyla Doom. Yesterday someone was asking where to farm level 19 pinks. It is Zyla doom's dungeon, of course.
Huh? Zyla Doom gives pinks? My mage has been grinding through Ms. Doom's little hideaway for days now (working on the 1024 Tomes quest), and I've never seen a pink there. Maybe my luck is just terrible....

Anyway, back to the OP:
Boo, rushing! Yay, clearing! I just purchased AO3, and I'll need help clearing & unlocking the maps, so I might be a little biased here. ;) Still, I think the Haunted Manor is a lot more fun post-rush-nerf, and I'm hoping that the Devs will bring the same kind of fun to the rest of the game.

[BurnYugo]

make the game levels so difficult that one person cannot solo the victory lap in ao3...make bosses require a fully equipped team of specific classes in specific quantitys. i havnt played many mmo's..but in ffxi, most of the elite items dropped from monsters that took over 18 characters and up to 4-5 hours to kill. there was no possible way one guy was gona walk up and solo everything, like in pl. raise the level caps, increase the amount of players per team, and make monsters near impossible to defeat. throw in an auction house too plzzzzzzzzzz :)


edit. i was too lazy to read everyone elses posts so if i repeated someones stuff, i apologize

Good answer, +1!

[BurnYugo]

You are saying that Royce doesn't have friends? Not only is this the opposite of truth, it is totally off topic as well as insulting.
I've never target especially Roy, but i made a generality.


But, the past is dead... *bonk* ... Ouch! ... Why are you rubbing your head, it is in the past ... It hurts! ... Oh, you see? The past may be dead, but it still hurts. :) hakuna matata, baby.
Lol, i understand nothing here.

[FluffNStuff]

Huh? Zyla Doom gives pinks? My mage has been grinding through Ms. Doom's little hideaway for days now (working on the 1024 Tomes quest), and I've never seen a pink there. Maybe my luck is just terrible....

Anyway, back to the OP:
Boo, rushing! Yay, clearing! I just purchased AO3, and I'll need help clearing & unlocking the maps, so I might be a little biased here. ;) Still, I think the Haunted Manor is a lot more fun post-rush-nerf, and I'm hoping that the Devs will bring the same kind of fun to the rest of the game.

Got some pinks from zyla. Usually requires a lot of killing her like any rares. Only problem with the Haunted Mansion is there was some guy that used to be on the forums that thought it was funny to sit at the entrance while everyone cleared it for him.

[knockk]

i sit at the entrance until ppl clear the map and than go to next lvl for the smack o lantern...its classic lol

[BurnYugo]

i sit at the entrance until ppl clear the map and than go to next lvl for the smack o lantern...its classic lol
Lol bad boy knock ^^
I do better than you, i simply join smack o lantern map ^^

[SlipperyJim]

i sit at the entrance until ppl clear the map and than go to next lvl for the smack o lantern...its classic lol
Um ... if you don't want to play the game, then why bother playing? Isn't it boring to sit at the entrance to the Haunted Manor and wait for other people to clear all of the mobs?

I don't understand some folks....

[FluffNStuff]

i sit at the entrance until ppl clear the map and than go to next lvl for the smack o lantern...its classic lol

I assume you are knocking the deadbeats that actually do this, hence your name. Right???? Please say Right!

[bmc85uk]

I'm glad to see it's all being addressed, I won't go into detail here about how I think it could be changed, but I will point out that there's a section covering it in my Overhaul Thread; linked in my signature.

[jonboy]

Here's an idea that will solve a few hopefully and leave everyone happy.

Make trash mobs drop a lot more gold per kill.

Introduces more money to the game so players can afford some of the over priced gear.

Rushers still get to do there skilled, funless, drive for efficiency.

And there is now an incentive for people to clear.

[BurnYugo]

Here's an idea that will solve a few hopefully and leave everyone happy.

Make trash mobs drop slot more gold per kill.

Introduces more money to the game do players can afford some of the over priced gear.

Rushers still get to do there skilled, funless, drive for efficiency.

And there is now an incentive for people the clear.
Excelent idea!

[shadywack]

BurnYugo, about your sig....didn't you notice the devs saying in other threads "We don't do petitions"??

[Cascade]

Royce is doing a "petition" too.

[Royce]

Royce is doing a "petition" too.

What are you talking about? ;)

[Snakespeare]

i sit at the entrance until ppl clear the map and than go to next lvl for the smack o lantern...its classic lol

I have always found knockk to be a straight up cat. This has to be a joke. :)

[SoShaan]

Whats wrong with rushing... nothing.. you guys can rush past enemy's until your blue in the face. Its not the problem leaving all the enemy's alive. The problem is your exploiting the system to gain access to the prize that is normally given to those who have finished the level as it was intended to be played. Even this I dont have any real issue with. You want to pretend that you have a gf to hang out with, or some special RL that in some odd way justifies in your mind that cheating is ok. Hey more power to ya..

But when a group of players, rush to the end, kill the boss without a single enemy killed and score a nice pink for FREE. Then have the idea that they can try to sell it for 850k gc.

Then its gone to far..

[CanonicalKoi]

Hmmm...what's wrong? Nothing if everyone in the party's agreed with it. (To me, it'd be boring all the time, different strokes and all that.). The problem is that often, not everyone *has* agreed to it. Let's look at a couple scenarios my friend ran into.

1. 3 low-mid level 40's show up. Along comes 2 49-50's. Yay, help! Except the upper-level folks start a rush for the boss. The lower levels (mages and birds in particular) take heavy damage along the way and die. Even if one of the higher levels is a mage, they don't stop to res--hurry, hurry! So the dead respawn, but now they're too underpowered and too few in number to catch up. Upper-levels take the boss drop and leave, leaving the original group back to trying to clear the level, this time with no chance at the cherry on top of the sundae. Not exactly fair. That happened to him a couple of times.

2. Almost identical with scenario one, but the upper-level person(s) show up after the groups mostly cleared the level. "Boss dead?" they ask. If the answer is no, they race like the dickens to get there before the clearing team, passing them and ignoring the fight they're in if necessary in their rush to get the boss. "You owed us, man. We helped you by killing the boss!". Yeah. Uh-huh.

Rushers probably wouldn't be getting the grief they are if so many of them weren't greedy, selfish word-I'd-get-banned-for.

[shadywack]

Well as I see it, rushing creates a "kick em while they're down" situation for the lower level players. They have a tough time getting gold because they spend it all on pots. Then they're told to go and buy gear from the guys who rush, creating a vicious cycle that's not too different from our national financial situation.

It creates a house of cards that is bound to collapse. Now we're seeing folks trying to sell pinks to uninterested buyers because the price is too high. Eventually, people get pissed off and quit playing the game because "the market's cornered" and they can't get the gear they want in order to succeed.

imho, I don't care what the item is, it's not worth more than 10k. I don't care if its the eye of gurgox, robe of the cosmo's, rift sword, etc. If you're to the point that you can use it, you could probably farm it yourself. Why pay that absurd amount?

I had a guy try to get me to pay 25k for a pink level 30 lightning staff a while back. When I hit level 30 I was moving onto better equipment anyway. I ended up levelling to 35 shortly thereafter and using a purple that was far superior.

Rushing? Yeah, great if the party is onboard. Otherwise, you're just griefing the whole map and screwing everyone else over. I boot rushers, but that's not always an amicable situation if I'm in someone else's game and they don't boot the guy.... great. Just great. Now when he gets his stupid pink we have yet more spam in Forest Haven. What a lovely experience eh?

[reddragon72]

Obviously this is a very heated debate. Here is what I suggest after reading through the many good and bad posts I have come to two conclusions.

1. People find the game to be boring playing it normally. To that the devs need to ramp it up. And one way to do that is to make sub boses in levels that drop some decent loot. The sub bosses will also stop rushing as now you cannot run through a level to get to one place and fight one boss. Some levels can have multiple sub bosses and some just one and others none. This will fix the rush and yet not stop it entirely as you can only rush so far then stop kill then rush again. This will help EVERYONE, rushers can rush MULTIPLE times, and low levels can get XP because more has to be done per level. Also this makes it less boring for rushers and may actually cause some of them to fall back to semi or total clearing. Also devs how about sub bosses being killed in a certain sequence causes unlocking of other maps. Just a few idea's and I have tons more.

2. If rushing was part of the design then why did the devs include minions? Playing a map all the way through or partially is what they had in mind when they created the game. They took the time to place and code all that into a level just for you to run through it? Think about that! All that hard work that you are essentially ignoring.

[Cascade]

The devs not only need to make the regular gameplay harder...they need to add more content than you can do in dungeons than just satisfaction of completion and farming good weapons.

[reddragon72]

The devs not only need to make the regular gameplay harder...they need to add more content than you can do in dungeons than just satisfaction of completion and farming good weapons.


That is why I mentioned sub boss opening other area's. There are tons of other things they can do and I can list them, but I'm sure they have plenty of ideas of there own :)

[smoae]

just need to get rid of rush not many people will leave. if people leave because they can no longer hold a direction on a d pad for 3 minutes and then button mash for 30 seconds then they are obviously not true MMORPG'ers

[Fyrce]

I would prefer not to be forced to play for 5-10 hours at a time in order to get ONE chance at a boss that takes 1-2 hours with a full team or a full TWO teams to kill, and which boss each player can kill only once a day. I do not have that kind of time. I was attracted to this game because it was mobile AND fast in and out. I remember admiring how it doesn't take an hour to quit out of this game as it does in some other MMOs.

I rush because that is the only way I can get a chance at good gear. I do not play enough hours. (NOTE: I have never had a shock lance, a galzyx staff, a thoth wand, etc. Not enough play time I guess. I have rushed those levels a bit, seen some drop but not enough time to get one for me) So if there is no more rush, then I am reminded that most of my frustrations with bad players (the hack-n-slash, "I have other skills?" types) were almost always in clear games. And then I go off and play by myself, and then see more of the bad players join me. I find THAT frustrating.

Rush doesn't necessarily keep those bad players away, but (1) it's the only way I can play at all when I am only on for 30 min or an hour. and (2) bad players distinguish themselves pretty quickly in rush. These are the teams that wipe out on their way anywhere or HAVE to clear even with 2-3 level 50 bears, 1-2 level 50 mages and 1-2 level 50 birds. And several in the best gear. So no, rush is NOT easy for those unskilled. Personally, I thought these wipes was the saving grace of rush. It is NOT as easy as some people believe. Which is why there is a marketplace. The players that have the time and can do it, they do it. Those that cannot but also have the time, can buy it. And those that do not have the time, we play with what we have. Which isn't bad, but I am not sure nerfing the rush would help us, but I am also not sure the devs care about us that much.

The first groups through Ao3 were 45 or not much higher. Why is it there are people now whining about no high levels helping them? I do not think rush/clear/farm/xp is the issue here. I think it's just bad players. How do you make bad players good players? Can you? There's a reason at game conventions, MOST players are not the TOP players.

As for all the merchanting, I know every online game has it, but I personally prefer to pop most of my gear. I suppose unless I was prevented from doing so... In which case, I would make do or go play Solitaire (as someone has suggested).

Maybe there are too many pinks in the game, because stat-wise, there are some perfectly good purples and greens, even at higher levels, but lots of people (I consider them part of the bad player group: They always claim they fail not because of skill but because of gear) only want pinks. Even though some purples are just as good or better than some pinks. So maybe this DOES mean you nerf the rush, but then I wonder how I will play if I cannot stay long enough to help clear... Maybe I would clear a hall and then leave. I wonder how long I would play doing that...

I have often wondered whether drops could somehow be linked to time spent in an area. Of course, then how do you stop those people who just sit in an area and do nothing? Such as the people sitting at the first level of Haunted Mansion, waiting for the piggyback ride? Because I also dislike that. If I am in a game, I will try to help out and I expect others to do the same. Is there a way to make it so you have to do damage during the clear to go to the next level? Or time spent at each level of a campaign, so hopefully the afk'ers end up being left behind or booted? I'm talking about over the players' life, of course. Maybe over all his/her characters combined. Maybe time spent in an area as a % of time spent overall in the game, but if you've spent enough time in an area, then you also get max chance at drops. Hmm...is this then a big problem for AFK'ers? Man, this is way too confusing for me, as everyone can tell from my rambling.

[BurnYugo]

BurnYugo, about your sig....didn't you notice the devs saying in other threads "We don't do petitions"??

What are you talking about? :)

[Slush]

they race like the dickens

i lol'd ....

[jonboy]

Let's say they increase the gold drops from trash mobs and bosses, so that a full clear leaves each player with approx. 10 to 15k, this would allow those that do a full clear of a campaign to make approx. 50 to 90k now if they do that a few times then they can save up to buy some of the uber gear that the traders can't move now as gold is limited, there are buyers out there but they have no way to get the funds to buy. Now the player could use the extra gold to cover the cost of learning AO3 with pots and elixirs.

Anyhow numbers are vague but this could work.

[Raxie]

this is exactly why i stopped using my level 50s. because no one actually cleared the map and forgot the actual fun of killing monsters. all the lower levels actual clear the map and we have to use teamwork and i have MORE fun when i'm lower level than i'm level 50.
another solution could be the monsters actually follow the rushers and don't return to their spot. usually when rushers reach a certain point, some monsters go back but what if the monsters didn't go back? this would be much harder as the yellow aliens would cause a lot of damage and it will be very hard to stay alive. so rushers would need to clear the map to not die.

[jonboy]

Free the minions from their leashes.

[pooop]

it takes forever to clear a map in ao3. if you nerf the rush, better shorten map time played to about 1/3rd of what it is now.

[SlipperyJim]

it takes forever to clear a map in ao3. if you nerf the rush, better shorten map time played to about 1/3rd of what it is now.
That's the best pro-rush argument I've seen so far. From what I've seen of AO3 (the first three maps so far), the maps are much larger than any previous maps. AO3 is a real time commitment.

I'm happy with the amount of content. Five short maps wouldn't have been worth the 20 plat that I payed. However, it might have been better for the Devs to put all of that content into more maps -- each one of which would be shorter -- then the current uber-long maps that we have now.

[SlipperyJim]

And one way to do that is to make sub boses in levels that drop some decent loot. The sub bosses will also stop rushing as now you cannot run through a level to get to one place and fight one boss.
People would just rush the sub-bosses. Who remembers "Frog Farming" back in the glory days of the Ancient Swamps...?

[reddragon72]

People would just rush the sub-bosses. Who remembers "Frog Farming" back in the glory days of the Ancient Swamps...?

yes but at least they would have to stop and fight more then just one thing. lower level characters would be able to gain something out of the level.

[CanonicalKoi]

i lol'd ....

I try to remember that this is a family show. "They run down the halls, cornering like a chihuahua on acid"--better? ;)

[FluffNStuff]

So long as there are mobs that can 1 shot a 50 and don't drop pinks, I see no reason to nerf the rush.

[SpeedWeed]

I don't see rush as a problem. it's a matter of personal preference.

I have a fix team of friends, i farm with almost on a daily basis. We run for about one-two hours tops, due to family/life commitments. Most of the time we clear, once in a blue moon we rush. It helps that we pool loot and share gold for stuff we decide to sell.

Just play with a regular group of people. Your friends should be willing to help u thru to clear all the way up to AO3 6. If you've reached the lvl for AO3 without making some friends who are willing to help you. Perhaps you need to do some self reflection.

My personal opinion is that a lot of people are hoping to be carried thru for loot. like how they are used to in AO2.

In fact leveling in AO3 2. I often get ppl who don't even understand the idea of pulling mobs into a corner so we can effectively AOE them. thus making clearing faster. Often when i politely ask that they do so. some ignore. some retort. I boot those who retort.

If the rest of your party tank pots up for the boss. and you don't. you're clearly not playing your part. Don't give me the bs about not having gold. My friend farms ao2 for gold. he gets abt 40k an hour. That's enough gold to tank pot for 20 runs.

The concept is simple. If you're not doing your part. Doing the right things at the right time. The rest of the team has to compensate for you. Bad spec matchup for bosses. (pre lvl 50 int/dex classes gets owned by overlord even with tank pot.)

poorly geared. no effort in improving your gear so u can contribute. no effort in improving and learning strat for different bosses.

Why should others carry you thru for loot?