Converting Pally to DexMage

[shinhwakid]

Do I go for full Dex or Dex & Str/Int?

Any DexPlayer interested in converting to Str I have the following items to trade:

Overlord Helm of Rift, Power Armor of Rift & Mega Blaster of Void (im sure u can use this to get Zuraz Lance & Force Kite Rift)

[Ellyidol]

This is me, I'd go enough dex to use gear, then probably all int. But I've seen some go str afterwards. So I'm not really sure.

[Arterra]

yea there are two builds. all dex to take advantage of weapon power or rest in int to take advantage of skill power.

[shinhwakid]

This is me, I'd go enough dex to use gear, then probably all int. But I've seen some go str afterwards. So I'm not really sure.

Thanks! Do you mind letting me know the gears you using and how much is your Dodge & Armor without buff?? and do you die offen when kill AO3 bosses in Victory Lap?

[shinhwakid]

yea there are two builds. all dex to take advantage of weapon power or rest in int to take advantage of skill power.

Hey thx. You personally go for which build? if full dex, can you let me know the e same questions which I asked Elly?

[Arterra]

i am using the one with a little bit of int in there... honestly doesnt matter as much as you think :/

as for dodge... depends on your gear. same with armor. i just like how i get +50% crit to use with fast weapons from the self buff

[Royce]

Guys just FYI, more Dex is not just more weapon damage, it's more base damage. Base damage affects skill damage, and crit also affects skill damage. The Dex damage advantage actually outweighs stat driven skills, so increasing Dex will increase your skill damage more (through base damage) than increasing Int will (through stat driven skills). The only reason to go with Int is stronger heals and a slightly larger mana pool, pure Dex actually gives the best skill damage. And do not ever, under any circumstances put Str on an enchantress unless it's to meet gear requirements as a pally.

[shinhwakid]

Guys just FYI, more Dex is not just more weapon damage, it's more base damage. Base damage affects skill damage, and crit also affects skill damage. The Dex damage advantage actually outweighs stat driven skills, so increasing Dex will increase your skill damage more (through base damage) than increasing Int will (through stat driven skills). The only reason to go with Int is stronger heals and a slightly larger mana pool, pure Dex actually gives the best skill damage. And do not ever, under any circumstances put Str on an enchantress unless it's to meet gear requirements as a pally.

awww... I shall go for full Dex then. Thx Royce.

So Royce, after playing pally and Dexmage, which you think is more fun and why?

[Royce]

awww... I shall go for full Dex then. Thx Royce.

So Royce, after playing pally and Dexmage, which you think is more fun and why?

I think Dex mage is the most fun mainly because of the ranged weapon and high damage, but pally is fun just because you can be a bit more reckless with the higher survivability lol.

Edit: BTW I have the raw data on stay driven skills but just have yet to quantify it because the results were so disappointing. Higher damage skills get more benefit than low damage skills, but even the highest damage skills get only about 1 max damage and 1/2 min damage per 3 Int. So for Int you may have a slight advantage with max damage of a couple skills but lower damage skills are better served by Dex, and all skills are affected by crit so overall, I really think unless you are mainly concerned with heal strength, Dex is the clear winner (as usual).

[shinhwakid]

Anyone can tell me e market price for below items:
1. Wraith Armor of the Void
2. Force Wing of the Void
3. Any Helm of the Void (since its same stat)
4. Laser Talon of the Void

[shinhwakid]

[QUOTE=Royce;105917]I think Dex mage is the most fun mainly because of the ranged weapon and high damage, but pally is fun just because you can be a bit more reckless with the higher survivability lol.

lol i see =). i know keeper & lord surely need tank pot to suvive, but will you die just a single hit on weaker boss? cuz mage suppose to rez, i dun wanna defeat the purpose of being a mage lol.

[Royce]

lol i see =). i know keeper & lord surely need tank pot to suvive, but will you die just a single hit on weaker boss? cuz mage suppose to rez, i dun wanna defeat the purpose of being a mage lol.

You will have to play more carefully, but as a Dex Mage you can stand back a bit more than with a pally, an you'll at least have a bit better survivability than an Int mage. But yeah, even the weaker bosses can potentially 1-shot crit an unbuffed Int or Dex mage, so you can't play the same way you might with a pally.

[shinhwakid]

I think Dex mage is the most fun mainly because of the ranged weapon and high damage, but pally is fun just because you can be a bit more reckless with the higher survivability lol.

Edit: BTW I have the raw data on stay driven skills but just have yet to quantify it because the results were so disappointing. Higher damage skills get more benefit than low damage skills, but even the highest damage skills get only about 1 max damage and 1/2 min damage per 3 Int. So for Int you may have a slight advantage with max damage of a couple skills but lower damage skills are better served by Dex, and all skills are affected by crit so overall, I really think unless you are mainly concerned with heal strength, Dex is the clear winner (as usual).

I only hav 22 int now as a pally, if I change to dex and leave int as 7 will it make a big different for heal str??

Wow Royce, how much time you spending to know all this stuff haha. You are like PL professor who know almost everything lol. You seriously tempting me to faster convert to full Dexmage... haha

[Royce]

I only hav 22 int now as a pally, if I change to dex and leave int as 7 will it make a big different for heal str??

No, it shouldn't be noticeable. Changing Int by 15 will mean your heals will have a min heal of 2.5 less and max heal of 5 less I believe.

[shinhwakid]

No, it shouldn't be noticeable. Changing Int by 15 will mean your heals will have a min heal of 2.5 less and max heal of 5 less I believe.

Well then I have nothing to worry except hoping i wont spent every dime on pots trying to keep myself alive lol.

[jonboy]

Bugger, just when I get a handle on the meta-game royce exposes more, so now my unbuffed needs fixing, if all that int is going to waste.
Str 158
Dex 26
Int 71

[Ellyidol]

Just a quick question.

When you add enough dex for gear, and all the rest into int. That amount of points you put into int vs the amount of points you put into dex, does it equate to a very noticable difference in damage? Because more int also means a stronger mana shield right?

How about if all your after is PvE? Dex-int definitely?

[jonboy]

Well I was working on the believe that through the stat skill system, that it was best to after your 158 str use dex to get hit to 100% and the rest into int, the last part being done geared to use any +hit% into the equation, royces latest data seems to suggest that you get more from just throughong it all into dex anyone going to spend a respec on a testing this with destiny set and harpoon. Will report back.

[jonboy]

@Elly, if your going for damage from your weapon then all into dex, though mana might be a prob, not up with the m/s for dex gear.

[Ellyidol]

@Elly, if your going for damage from your weapon then all into dex, though mana might be a prob, not up with the m/s for dex gear.

Damage would be good, but assuming we have a good group going (Complete with bird and bears), I'm just after a dex mage for these main reasons:

1. Added - armor debuff for faster damage for group

2. 2nd to dex bird in damage (I think?)

3. Heals and res

So I'm thinking a dex-int mage would do good?

[jonboy]

Need Royce to give exact figures but sound like dex-int is your go.

[Kalielle]

I realize this goes against most conventional wisdom, but I think a dex/str enchantress build has its advantages. The extra str gives you about 60 extra health points, for a total of 260 health instead of 200. That sounds really unglamorous compared to crit or dodge or damage, but that extra health will save your life many times.

For a build used mainly for rushing (as mine is), I think dex/str is absolutely the way to go. But even for regular play it can be very useful. Just today I was helping defeat gurgox in a regular game. It was a long fight since we only had four people and the other weapons in the group were not doing that much damage, and several times I was just a tiny amount of health away from dying. Now we all know how in that fight having an extra mage be alive can make all the difference, since half the mages might be dead after a scream even with an orb, and it's a loooong way to walk back from the entrance - so the extra few health points really saved the day.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab156/kaleylegends/daggerbuild.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab156/kaleylegends/blasterbuild.jpg

Here are some screenshots with the stats. As you can see crit and dodge are quite decent especially on the dagger build, and base damage with the blaster is also not bad. What I find really neat is that with dagger my dex mage has more armor, more dodge and almost as much health as my level 48 paladin, who was also built for rush survivability and was already doing well in ao2 maps 4 and 5 and unpotted Tpaxx runs.

Without gear the build is 125 dex/123 str/7 int. This means you have to equip lower level gear first to equip higher level one. I'd be happy to walk people through the process if anyone has questions.

It would be great if someone with a pure dex void mage could post a screenshot of their stats for comparison.

As for putting points into int, as Royce says the extra boost to the spells is not that significant except perhaps for heals, and you can only cast spells every so often anyway. Lightning for instance at 7 int is 50-120 damage, at 57 int it's 55-133 and at 142 it's 64-160. Not really worth the points spent, in my opinion. Also, buff and debuff effectiveness doesn't depend on int. It's true that for mana shield more int means more mana and thus a slightly stronger shield - but what you really want do do with the shield is spam chug mana pots when it's on, and not just rely on your max mana and regen for it. Even with only 7 int I rarely die with the shield on - it's the 46 seconds when the shield is not on that are the real issue. :)

[Royce]

So guys, just for some preliminary data on stat driven skills, it's not quite as bad as I thought, but still not so great. It's very difficult to quantify this because the stat driven skill effect is not simply X amount of skill damage per Int point. Also just FYI, stat driven skills do not effect buffs, debuffs, mana shield, etc. They were never supposed to but there seems to be some confusion about this, so I thought I'd mention it. The only skills affected are heal and the damage skills (frostbite, lightning, firestorm, icestorm, and drain). So as it turns out stat driven skills increase damage of higher damage skills (and heal) more than low damage skills. So for an easier way to compare to base damage, what I did was track the stat driven skill effect on drain (highest damage skill) and Icestorm (lowest damage), both at rank 5, and looked at the average damage increase of the 2 skills. I looked at min damage increase per point Int and max damage increase, and averaged them for average damage increase, then averaged the average increase between the high damage and low damage skills. So as it turns out, the average added skill damage from stat driven skills is almost identical to the base damage boost from the same amount of Dex, though with stat driven skills, higher damage skills benefit more, and with Dex, low damage skills benefit more. However, stat driven skills plus damage increase from Int outweigh Dex for average skill damage increase slightly. At the same time, Dex does boost Crit 3 times as much as Int does, and that makes a pretty big difference as well. Really, it makes the situation pretty close. I think for a character who still needs to increase hit% like a paladin, Dex is definitely better, but for a character who cares about having more powerful heals (not affected by damage so not affected by Dex afaik), Int may be better. Also for characters like a Dex mage who already have high hit%, Int may have a better payoff.
As for Str on an Enchantress, I am completely against it. The extra 60 health is decent, but that is literally all you are getting from it. Str is a wasted attribute. If you want an enchantress with higher survivability, then you may as well invest enough in Str to wear Str armor and get the much higher armor advantage that comes with it. Investing in Str for health on an Int or Dex simply doesn't make sense to me. You are sacrificing significant weapon and skill damage, healing strength, etc for the ability to maybe survive a blast every once in a while

[Ellyidol]

How does this equipping lower level gear work on maximizing stat points? Since I mainly switch between blaster/talon wing, do I have to go through the lower level gear before? So the point is to have enough dex to wear lower gear that will be enough to boost your Dex up to the minimum amount to wear the void gear?

[jonboy]

Thanks, Royce, for the numbers, looking at the testing I did this week end I moved to 158 str, 11 int (for the +1 m/s) and rest in dex, difference so about 5 across the board with dex then int, I'll post the numbers later.

[Royce]

Thanks, Royce, for the numbers, looking at the testing I did this week end I moved to 158 str, 11 int (for the +1 m/s) and rest in dex, difference so about 5 across the board with dex then int, I'll post the numbers later.

Cool, if you want any specific figures:
Heal and Drain are increased by an average of about 0.25 (health/damage) per point of Int (about 0.35 max and 0.14 min increase per point of Int).
Average damage of Icestorm increases by about 0.07 per point of Int (about 0.15 max damage increase and no min damage change).
So the best figure to sum up the stat driven skill effect that I have so far is 0.16, which somewhat approximates the overall average skill damage increase per point of Int (not including Int's contribution to base damage).

[Demonicdevyn]

This is me, I'd go enough dex to use gear, then probably all int. But I've seen some go str afterwards. So I'm not really sure.


the reason ppl go with the second attributes as str is cause of our ridiculously low health

[Ellyidol]

the reason ppl go with the second attributes as str is cause of our ridiculously low health

Yeah, but like Royce said, health is all you will get from that str.

You'd have 200+ (225 on my 39 mage, not sure if it goes higher with level) health at 50 anyway, pop an armor pot and you'd be as good as a bird. Plus you have heal, mana shield, and a quick armor buff.

[Demonicdevyn]

ik u were just wondering ;)
my dexmage is dex then int

[Ellyidol]

ik u were just wondering ;)
my dexmage is dex then int

Yeah, I might do this equipping lower level gear method if I figure out how to. I have a rough idea, just lack exact stats or such.

[Royce]

Yeah, I might do this equipping lower level gear method if I figure out how to. I have a rough idea, just lack exact stats or such.

Your base stats need to be enough, that with your final gear setup, the boosts will be enough for the items to stay equipped. So for a void setup, with talon, your gear would give you 44 Dex, and the highest requirement would be 158 Dex, so you need a base Dex of at least 114 (and of course it will be easier to pull off if you have more). Then you need to equip gear with low enough requirements that you can equip it (with 114 Dex), and high enough boosts that it will build your Dex high enough to eventually equip Void items (starting with the helm which will have the lowest req.). It may require intermediate steps of gear to get there. Your best options are low level pinks (Snipers, JT, Shivering, etc) which will have lower requirements but still have high Dex bonuses). Also remember for a blaster setup, your final gear setup will only have a Dex bonus of 33, so you would need a Dex base of at least 125.

[Ellyidol]

Your base stats need to be enough, that with your final gear setup, the boosts will be enough for the items to stay equipped. So for a void setup, with talon, your gear would give you 44 Dex, and the highest requirement would be 158 Dex, so you need a base Dex of at least 114 (and of course it will be easier to pull off if you have more). Then you need to equip gear with low enough requirements that you can equip it (with 114 Dex), and high enough boosts that it will build your Dex high enough to eventually equip Void items (starting with the helm which will have the lowest req.). It may require intermediate steps of gear to get there. Your best options are low level pinks (Snipers, JT, Shivering, etc) which will have lower requirements but still have high Dex bonuses). Also remember for a blaster setup, your final gear setup will only have a Dex bonus of 33, so you would need a Dex base of at least 125.

Spot on, thanks Royce. So in short I need a total of 125 Dex (since I'd definitely be using blaster), then enough low level gear dex bonuses that add up to 154, then eventually 158. Sounds good!

[Royce]

Spot on, thanks Royce. So in short I need a total of 125 Dex (since I'd definitely be using blaster), then enough low level gear dex bonuses that add up to 154, then eventually 158. Sounds good!

Yeah, and the best bonus you can get that I am aware of on low level gear is 7 Dex on Sniper, JT, Shivering, Copperhead, etc. So it looks like the biggest bonus you should should be able to get at first is actually 28, so not quite enough to get to the void helm req. However, Horus items have 8 Dex, so basically, you will have to start out with some lower pinks, get enough Dex for Horus gear, switch in at least one piece of Horus gear, then move to the Void helm, etc.

[Ellyidol]

Yeah, and the best bonus you can get that I am aware of on low level gear is 7 Dex on Sniper, JT, Shivering, Copperhead, etc. So it looks like the biggest bonus you should should be able to get at first is actually 28, so not quite enough to get to the void helm req. However, Horus items have 8 Dex, so basically, you will have to start out with some lower pinks, get enough Dex for Horus gear, switch in at least one piece of Horus gear, then move to the Void helm, etc.

True. Unless I put that extra 11 points into dex, just to be lazy :P lol

[Kalielle]

If you want an enchantress with higher survivability, then you may as well invest enough in Str to wear Str armor and get the much higher armor advantage that comes with it.

Totally true and I would do that, if current ao3 str gear wouldn't have such terrible stats - mainly lack of decent dodge, plus of course the lack of mana regen doesn't exactly help palas either.

My mage can turn into a pala wearing rift gear, as you know, and while I haven't played with that setup quite enough to be certain, it seems so far that she doesn't survive any easier with rift gear than with the void setup. Basically the void's dodge outweighs the rift's extra armor. Add to that the void's crazy high mana regen and the gear choice for mages is pretty clear. :D

[Royce]

I understand what you're saying Kali, and Dex mage is certainly a good option in AO3, but I disagree with this part:

Basically the void's dodge outweighs the rift's extra armor.
While the dodge will give you better survivability than an Int mage, the issue for mages in AO3 is mainly 1-shot crit deaths. A paladin has the armor (and bit of health) to survive shots that an Int or Dex mage would be killed by. True, with high dodge, you may avoid some of those crits, but when they get through, you will still be dead. A paladin will have to heal/be healed much more often, but as long as that is happening, should have the best survivability of the 3.

[jonboy]

Hi all, this is not in depth, but it is a start and data is going in that is progressing me onwards towards the Character/Equipment Simulator im working on.
Anyway attached is breakdown of Paly with secondary stat as DEX v INT (note I havn't done the comparison with Skills yet, as have chewed through my re-specs and need to get some more (I seem to eat them like breakfast.

Google Docs spreadsheet.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AgOR6uzT4pSldEFOVU5KMFZveVd3b1pLS3FwTndSU mc&hl=en&output=html

[Ellyidol]

@Royce/whoever

Follow up questions, I just got the 4 pieces to do my +28 dex requirement. So from 154-28 thats a base of 126 dex? So from 126 base dex > Put on 4 pinks > 154 dex > put on helm > 158 dex > put on the rest of gear. So between switching from talon/wing to a blaster, I don't need to go through another round of those 4 lower level pinks do I? Only if I actually remove my void set?

[jonboy]

Changing loadout set might bork it, not sure, but as long as you didn't go under the equip min, should be fine.

[Ellyidol]

Changing loadout set might bork it, not sure.

Wouldn't I have enough req. dex to equip a blaster from talon/wing, then enough dex to equip a talon/wing from a blaster anyway? Gonna test it soon but just would be nice to be able to get a confirmation :D

Awesome work on spreadsheet btw.

[jonboy]

Edited prior so you should be ok

[Apolloco]

Hey guys, I'm very new to this game and I have decided to make a Dexmage. Could anybody tell me the build for it? So for I'm level 7 w/

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My stats are 1 str, 33 dex, and 11 int with some items. Should I add more int or keep on going full dex from here? I also have a question regarding my weapons, what kind of weapons should I be using? Thanks for your support and help! Also if anybody is kind enough could you post a skill build for a dex mage? I wasn't too sure whether some skills should be added 5 into and some only 1 point.

[Varking]

Hey guys, I'm very new to this game and I have decided to make a Dexmage. Could anybody tell me the build for it? So for I'm level 7 w/

2130
0000
0000

My stats are 1 str, 33 dex, and 11 int with some items. Should I add more int or keep on going full dex from here? I also have a question regarding my weapons, what kind of weapons should I be using? Thanks for your support and help! Also if anybody is kind enough could you post a skill build for a dex mage? I wasn't too sure whether some skills should be added 5 into and some only 1 point.

If you are making a dex mage, go all dex.

[Apolloco]

What kind of weapons should I use? I'm level 7 right now and how should I level up my skills? It's at
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at the moment. Should I need more int then just 11 int? Thanks. If anybody could tell me a good build for a dex mage I would appreciate it. I've only started but I wasn't sure if dex helps. I know that Royce stated earlier than dex improves your regular hit dmg and skill dmg. My lightning skill does so little dmg (around 80-100 dmg; same thing as 2 regular hits). Would str be good cause it increases base dmg and gives me hp?

[Varking]

What kind of weapons should I use? I'm level 7 right now and how should I level up my skills? It's at
2130
0000
0000

at the moment. Should I need more int then just 11 int? Thanks. If anybody could tell me a good build for a dex mage I would appreciate it. I've only started but I wasn't sure if dex helps. I know that Royce stated earlier than dex improves your regular hit dmg and skill dmg. My lightning skill does so little dmg (around 80-100 dmg; same thing as 2 regular hits). Would str be good cause it increases base dmg and gives me hp?

Dex is what you get the most benefit out of all the time, no matter what when it comes to damage. Dex increases both your base damage and your chance to crit. So over time, dex helps out the most. Don't put more points into STR or INT as when you get around level 30 you will start getting items that have + to mana per second so that will help you keep your mana up.

[Lapinsalaingr]

I think Dex mage is the most fun mainly because of the ranged weapon and high damage, but pally is fun just because you can be a bit more reckless with the higher survivability lol.

Edit: BTW I have the raw data on stay driven skills but just have yet to quantify it because the results were so disappointing. H
igher damage skills get more benefit than low damage skills, but even the highest damage skills get only about 1 max damage and 1/2 min damage per 3 Int. So for Int you may have a slight advantage with max damage of a couple skills but lower damage skills are better served by Dex, and all skills are affected by crit so overall, I really think unless you are mainly concerned with heal strength, Dex is the clear winner (as usual).

Without bothering you with noobs questions, is there a place where i can Read about These stat driven skills ? All of this Sounds like Chinese to me, but i believe there must be some Doc somewhere ... Thx !

[Apolloco]

I hate repeating a question but I am really curious so what kind of weapons should I be using on my dex mage and what kind of skilling order should I be following?

[AzureSoul]

Haha he quoted my quote xDD thanks jonboy