Is this a reportable offence

[gundamsone]

Basically here's what happened.

I lent gold to this user (k______e) about 4-5 weeks ago as they promised to owe me the full amount back within a few days.
Every week i've been chasing this user to give back the gold, and each time I ask they always say "tommrow I promise"

Today I asked again, same reply, and they were pretty annoyed about it too..so enoughs enough.
Wondering if I can report this user for scamming?

This user has a past history of scamming others...or rumour has it he did.

I know it is my fault, and i'm not demanding the gold back either,
instead all I want is justice against this user and any other user who has done similar.
I don't want to see another person get hit by his faked trust.

So far, this thread isn't going the way I want it to.
Under the ToS, you guys are correct and when you hit that accept button, whatever you send over no longer belongs to you.
I can totally agree with this, but remember this game is a MMO, an interactive game between players, based on helping each other out, trust, friendship, guilds etc.
Lending gold or items to someone is very normal behaviour in any MMO. And when you make a promise to give the things back, I think you're obligated to do so.
How players behave shape the game's community, and this type of behaviour will only create deception and hurt players.

You guys need to see the bigger picture. B/c if anyone reads this thread (which they will) you'll only be promoting this type of disgusting behaviour and giving scammers a safety net.

[Glitch]

Heya Love,

I totally understand your frustration in this situation of "scamming". Sadly, as STS has said thousands and thousands of times over and over again..."if you trade or gift someone an item, don't expect to be getting it back" and you know, stuff like that lol :D.
I am really sorry and hope this person is brought to Justice! Thanks for reading :)
~Glitch.

[gundamsone]

wait so from what you're saying, i'll only be abusing the in game report button in this situation?
so what he did is borderline acceptable?

[Glitch]

Yup.

[ultimaga95]

Heya Love,

I totally understand your frustration in this situation of "scamming". Sadly, as STS has said thousands and thousands of times over and over again..."if you trade or gift someone an item, don't expect to be getting it back" and you know, stuff like that lol :D.
I am really sorry and hope this person is brought to Justice! Thanks for reading :)
~Glitch.

I agree with Glitch, if you let someone borrow an item or gold and they do not return it, it is your fault because you let them borrow it.

[gundamsone]

I let them borrow it on the promise that i'd receive the full amount back...aka a verbal contractual agreement

[razerfingers]

The minute you hit accept it isnt yours anymore.

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[SkullCrusher]

Love, just stop crying and get it over with. ( not trying to flame or bait. ) Seriously, you gave to him now it's NOT YOURS!
Don't expect some special treatment from STS mate, the item isn't yours anymore ( or the gold. )

[Spyce]

It's your fault..

[gundamsone]

guys I don't want it back....

I just wish no one in the future will get hit by this guy....
to me the amount of gold I lent out is nothing...to an average player it's everything..

[Taejo]

wait so from what you're saying, i'll only be abusing the in game report button in this situation?
so what he did is borderline acceptable?

Sorry this happened to you.

What he did is definitely not acceptable on a moral level. Unfortunately, however, from what I know the person who ran off with your gold did not technically violate anything within the ToS. It doesn't really cover stipulations according to your situation in detail. Bottom line: STS isn't liable for the transactions we make in the game (unless there's a hack involved), therefore they caution players about what Glitch stated.

I honestly can't think of any reason to report him that would merit justice from STS to you.

[gundamsone]

No I think you guys are wrong.
This behaviours should never be tolerated in any game.

You're really saying it's OKAY to go around borrowing everyone's gold/items then scamming them and coming out clean?
This is much more than a simple morale issue.

[SkullCrusher]

No I think you guys are wrong.
This behaviours should never be tolerated in any game.

You're really saying it's OKAY to go around borrowing everyone's gold/items then scamming them and coming out clean?
This is much more than a simple morale issue.

Agreed with the morale issue part but you should've never trusted the person any ways.

[gundamsone]

From a business perspective,

one player (customer A) has taken from another player (customer B) *breach of trust? I dunno the legal terms..but i'm sure there is one*
which might result in the loss of "customer B" and any future profits the company might receive from that player.

I'm sure I can argue around the ToS to prove that this is reportable and against the rules.

[SkullCrusher]

From a business perspective,

one player (customer A) has taken from another player (customer B) *breach of trust? I dunno the legal terms..but i'm sure there is one*
which might result in the loss of "customer B" and any future profits the company might receive from that player.

I'm sure I can argue around the ToS to prove that this is reportable and against the rules.

Well, I guess if you can then yes, but it will be hard.

[Tama Kino]

I feel sorry for you Gundamsome, so many times when Im going to trade with someone & its quite an expensive trade I am very skeptical until the last action is over with. I make sure they dont trade out from their window with the items etc. Unfortunately we live in a time & era where peoples morales & codes of honour are now quite deplorable but this is how they view the world they live in. I would like to live in a world where we treat others how they would treat you, so if this person comes at me with a nice attitude & some form of manners its all over. I will give this person the utmost respect & treat them how I would like to be treated.

Once again though, people like the one you dealt with will come along & with their devious & unscrupulous morales - they will try to bring you down to their levels & make you feel like you should give up on trying to be nice to others. Dont give in bro, a nice action per day is like a virus of goodness, with that one nice action that you commit you will hopefully make the person you did this to feel like this isnt such a bad world after all, in so doing they will treat the next person they deal with in a nice manner & then the virus effect will hopefully kick in & pass among the many of us who like to trade, deal & barter throughout the world of Arcane Legends as we know it.

Heh, sorry about the whole overdramatised picture that I have tried to draw, at the end of the day the person has taught you a lesson that he/she is not to be trusted & for you to let others know that this person cannot be trusted with a verbal agreement even if you think you have been friends with this person. I dont know how much you lent the person so I cant really say that this is a cheap lesson but at least its the last lesson you will have with this person, well I will stop carrying on now & get back to what I was doing...

[Kraze]

As the 1,000+ threads like this has shown in the past hit ok it's done. Perhaps be more careful when "lending" things in the future.

[abihakim]

Losing some millions shouldn't be a problem for you isn't it?
You still got 999999999 of golds.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[chitgoks]

sorry it happened to you mate. should have lent it to someone whom you know for quite some time perhaps?

it is best to keep things to yourself and not help others. you dont need their help anyway because you are loaded for many expansions to come

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Bless]

Losing some millions shouldn't be a problem for you isn't it?
You still got 999999999 of golds.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2 So what if he has over 150m? He still earned it and he cant just throw all his money away till he has 2m left...

[Cero]

lol told yah but you hug him.

shadess stricks again.

[abihakim]

So what if he has over 150m? He still earned it and he cant just throw all his money away till he has 2m left...

Chill man, why so serious?
I was joking.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[tramtamtam]

From my perspective those cases should be investigated (at least at minimum, screenshot etc) and if it is proven scam/breaking one's word - there should be public list of scammers (if item can't be returned/sold already), banhammers or resolved issues between players if possible. Just ignoring such topics = green light to frauds

[keikali]

Few things to note:

1) This is not a case of scamming. Love I'm sure you know that. This is a case of principle & trust between players/friends in the game. Okay you lose a couple of million, but lesson learned, don't trust anyone.

2) Stop labeling EVERYTHING a SCAM/SCAMMER. And I'm not saying you in general Love, but almost EVERY ONE of these cases people call them scammers, but in reality they trusted the wrong person.

And don't try to run around the ToS with legal terms because most of the time generally speaking, transactions done over the internet like this are pulled into a big blackhole of grey area.

[Y O L O]

Hi.

[CrimsonTider]

No I think you guys are wrong.
This behaviours should never be tolerated in any game.

You're really saying it's OKAY to go around borrowing everyone's gold/items then scamming them and coming out clean?
This is much more than a simple morale issue.

No, you're wrong. No one is saying it is ok. What everyone IS saying that, as Sam/JG/whomever has said a million times before, once you hit "confirm", it is over. I could "loan" someone a gold cap in any STS game, but there is no "rule" which states they are held under a contract. Does it make them a dishonest person? Yes. Did they break any rules making them eligible to be reported? No.

End of story.

[Delphina]

Thread closed. Please read this thread.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?69958-And-Now-A-Word-From-Your-Customer-Support-Team%85

[Thethirdclyde]

Love, I completely agree that people who borrow items/gold and refuse to return them are acting immorally and contrary to the heart of the game. However, in the bigger picture I do not think that making this a reportable offense would be good for the game.

In this situation nobody disputes that accept and confirmation buttons were pressed by both parties to give something for nothing. The reportable offense then would have to be based off the prior promise to repay the gold and failure to do so. The theory behind taking action on that offense would be that the person either a) broke a promise or b) acted immorally. Under that theory if someone told me they would help me defeat a boss and failed to do so I could then report them for breaking a promise. To make promise breaking or acting immorally generally reportable offenses would create an inordinate amount of new reports that STS likely could not handle.

I can see that a promise to assist in defeating a boss and to repay gold are very different, but at the core both are simply breaking promises. To solve this issue, STS could specifically amend their TOS to make the failure to return/repay loaned/borrowed items/gold a reportable offense. This would either require a change in the TOS, and the addition of a borrow button in the trade window or that specific language be used before the trade. Both of those alternatives would require STS to take substantial time in either sorting through chat logs to enforce a promise or coding new content. I can see substantial issues that may arise if STS were to take those actions.

For STS to amend the rules for loaning items/gold they would be specifically sanctioning it as an acceptable way to play the game. From an AL business perspective I would greatly enjoy this. I would begin offering gold loans at a high interest rate with the penalty for nonpayment being a report for violation of the TOS. There is not a large difference between a promise to repay gold and a promise to repay gold with interest. In this situation STS would need to place a restriction on loans with interest in the TOS. I personally believe that it would be fun, but it is also a sad day when a video game's rules must be amended so that I am not sanctioned to be a loan shark with devs as enforcers.

In the end this is why AL should have a boot from game button like PL. The devs shouldn't have to do anything in this situation, the large guilds should be informed who this person is and that person should be booted from any quality elite run. Repayment will come quickly when all that person can do is make their own games to not get booted. Now I think that the addition of a boot button would have it's own separate set of issues, but in this specific situation it would fit perfectly.

A very wise friend once told me that if you loan anything to a friend be prepared for it to be a gift, and if you can't do that be prepared to lose your friend. I have always believed that if your loaning something to someone who is not your friend it is best to have two attorneys, a notary public, a contract, some signatures, and collateral of equal or greater value.