Health & Armor in Endgame PvP

[Energizeric]

Back in the level 21 & 26 caps, health and armor were hugely important even for squishy mages. I experimented lots with different gear, and health and armor actually seemed most important, even more than having the highest damage. PvP battles took a bit of time, and due to that it was less based on luck and more based on skill.

Now what has happened at level 31 is the players have grown so powerful in terms of the damage they deal. Unfortunately armor and health have not kept pace with damage (except perhaps for warriors). So the result is that battles are over in 2-3 seconds.

Armor and Health for mages & rogues has becomes almost unimportant. Adding 100 armor or 300 health is like putting on a helmet to protect yourself from a guided missile. A single arrow from an end game mythic rogue can kill a mage regardless of whether he has 2100 health/600 armor or 3100 health/850 armor. If you have your shield up, then it takes 2 arrows -- the first one kills the shield, and the second one kills you.

Obviously level 31 is what it is, and it's too late to change it. But I hope STS attempts to fix this a bit at level 36 and higher. The solution is very easy.... Only increase damage a tiny bit in level 36 gear, but increase the armor considerably more. It would be nice if PvP battles were actually battles with strategy and not one shot kills.

[Darko]

I agree with you in respect to mages and rogues, warriors do zilch for damage though. ...if we upped armor and health for rofue and mages, damage for warriior would need buff to keep up

[Bless]

Thats what I always say. Hp hasnt kept up with our crits and damage and thats why kills are often 2 hits or 1hko crit.

[Drearivev]

I've done it so many times.....if a Sorcerer doesn't have a shield up, even if they have 2.6k health I've crit them and killed them in one shot. It's really not fun.

[Jexetta]

PvE related : Lower health = More 1 shot elite boss deaths = More rage tap 1 Plat revive (and the occasional opsie revenge revive) = higher STS revenue.

[SkullCrusher]

Heck, even I am getting tired of critting people 3k and 1hitting them ( even some tanks ). The only skill involved in end-game is who ever crits first wins. ( which isn't even skill lol. )

[Cero]

yes i agree.
surviving for a lil bit longer in pvp fight is way better than having an easy kill.

[Energizeric]

I agree with you in respect to mages and rogues, warriors do zilch for damage though. ...if we upped armor and health for rofue and mages, damage for warriior would need buff to keep up

Good point. I know they like classes to have big differences between them, but I think they are a bit too different at the moment. Maybe the difference needs to be narrowed a bit. They need to up health & armor for mages and rogues, and they need to up damage for warriors.

Obviously the way STR/DEX/INT affect stats should not be changed. But they could make these changes by the stats in the new level 36 gear (including the stats of the upgraded mythic armor/helm set). Just make the rogue/mage gear have more Armor & STR and less INT/DEX, and instead of increasing the STR on the warrior gear, just add damage instead and maybe only increase their armor slightly.

[SkullCrusher]

Well, idk about the rogue.....I'd say it's fine as it is. If you want to the damage of a lord you must have the health of a....idk lol.
What I'm trying to say that if a rogue has high health and high damage = OP. ( like they were in the beginning. )
Warriors and sorcerers need improvements though.

[Drearivev]

Well, idk about the rogue.....I'd say it's fine as it is. If you want to the damage of a lord you must have the health of a....idk lol.
What I'm trying to say that if a rogue has high health and high damage = OP. ( like they were in the beginning. )
Warriors and sorcerers need improvements though.
I agree. I've seen some Rogue who are like tanks. 3k+ health.

[Energizeric]

So leave their damage the same and then just give them more health for level 36. Obviously something has to improve when you go up 5 levels. The gear has to be better in some way. I say don't increase their damage by much and make most of the improvement in the areas of health and armor.

And BTW, the reason rogues aren't as squishy as mages has not much to do with their health and armor. It's that they have very high dodge, so they dodge 1 out of every 3 hits. That effectively gives them 50% more health.

[gundamsone]

dodge is overated
we actually don't dodge 1 in 3 hits b/c I figure a mages/rogues hit% (hidden) is well over the 100% mark

[drgrimmy]

So leave their damage the same and then just give them more health for level 36. Obviously something has to improve when you go up 5 levels. The gear has to be better in some way. I say don't increase their damage by much and make most of the improvement in the areas of health and armor.

And BTW, the reason rogues aren't as squishy as mages has not much to do with their health and armor. It's that they have very high dodge, so they dodge 1 out of every 3 hits. That effectively gives them 50% more health.


dodge is overated
we actually don't dodge 1 in 3 hits b/c I figure a mages/rogues hit% (hidden) is well over the 100% mark

Yeah don't know too much about dodge being a mage but seems like it is helpful for Rogues in pve but not PvP. Nevertheless, even without taking dodge into consideration, the armor and health of a rogue is higher than a mage. I know conceptually a mage should have the lowest health and armor, as this is how it is in most RPGs, but it is also strange that a rogue has by far the highest damage without any clear disadvantage, save perhaps a lower mana pool. It does seem like something needs to be done in terms of damage escalating out of control turning PvP into a one shot fest. I would have to say that this is another factor in addition to the ganging, kill/flag farming, no kill rules of PvP which leads to PvP not being too much fun anymore and results in me not playing PvP anymore.

[Drearivev]

So leave their damage the same and then just give them more health for level 36. Obviously something has to improve when you go up 5 levels. The gear has to be better in some way. I say don't increase their damage by much and make most of the improvement in the areas of health and armor.

And BTW, the reason rogues aren't as squishy as mages has not much to do with their health and armor. It's that they have very high dodge, so they dodge 1 out of every 3 hits. That effectively gives them 50% more health.
Honestly, I thought dodge only worked on auto-attacks. There are a few occasions where I dodge WM, but that's about it.

[Energizeric]

dodge is overated
we actually don't dodge 1 in 3 hits b/c I figure a mages/rogues hit% (hidden) is well over the 100% mark

Rogues do dodge my stuns quite often. If they didn't I'd win every battle with a rogue. You particularly dodge at least 1 out of 3 of my stuns. That is how you always beat me. ;)

[gundamsone]

Rogues do dodge my stuns quite often. If they didn't I'd win every battle with a rogue. You particularly dodge at least 1 out of 3 of my stuns. That is how you always beat me. ;)

I though I win you with 3200+ HPx2 and hitting 3k's
You're not losing to a rogues dodge...you're losing to a rogue medpacks

[Energizeric]

I though I win you with 3200+ HPx2 and hitting 3k's
You're not losing to a rogues dodge...you're losing to a rogue medpacks

When I beat a rogue cleanly (i.e. my stuns don't miss), they never have a chance to get their medpacks as they are dead before they come out of stun. When I fight you, that never works. And you're not the only rogue, but there are very few who manage to beat me consistently.

The problem for mages is the spec to beat a warrior is different than what is best to beat rogues. I'm build more to fight warriors than rogues. Heal against rogue is not useful. 1% health or 99% health I still die in one hit.

[Carapace]

thanks guys, we will keep this in mind as we mess with itemization for the coming expansion.