Low Level PvP VS. High Level PvP

[Drianikaben]

I was in an argument with a friend about which is better: High Lvl pvp, or low lvl.

I said high level. He says low lvl. He said low level pvp'ers are rich. I said high level pvp'ers are skilled. Needless to say, we aren't friends anymore.

But anyways, onto the actual thread. I have played High lvl pvp. I have played low lvl pvp. I have played mid level pvp. The difference between high level pvp and low-mid lvl pvp.... FBOWS!!!!

I have played since long before FBow's existed. And I remember when low level pvp was fun. I also remember a time when the majority of players didn't spec stats to dex to be able to use FBows >.<

High level pvp, you see a LOT more people using their classes natural stat. More mages use int. more bears use STR. Birds still use dex.

But seriously.... Are FBow's REALLY that good? That they have to change the entire game? I mean, instead of Voodoo set mages, we have voodoo armor and helm, with an fbow, mages. Really??? This kind of thing frustrates me. Why has the game mechanics changed so much over a single weapon? End game players, they don't do that. Obviously, you have warbirds, dex bears, and palli's, but the thing about them.... they ALL have half and half. Or usually. But low level, a dex bear is completely different from an end game dex bear. end game is half STR, half Dex. Low level, it's ALL dex. just for the ability to use an FBow.

I made a bear recently. Level 10 twink. And guess what? It's more closer to the old lvl 10 twink bear than this new crap. Using a duckfoot, lvl 5 armsman armor, 6 rage, and 3 stomp. and ya know what? I can rage, auto, stomp and kill anything using anything. Except for the fact that.... FBow's turn on the auto and kill me before I can stomp.

But anyways.... I ramble and carry on too much. But another thing to bring up before I close out this thread.... Do the people working for gold to low lvl pvp work harder, or do the ppl working for end game, to play with skill (and then work on the skill) work harder?

So, now the thread is closed. I would like your guys' opinion.... Is low level pvp better, or high level? Which works harder for what they are and do?

/endrantandstuff

[Spyce]

I used to like low level PvP until I started the higher levels.
Higher levels tend to be more balanced and dosen't have a OP weapon such as a forgotten bow.

[Extreme]

Endgame Is Mature, and absolutely better then low level.

[Waug]

IMO low level pvp is bit boring to me, and less challenging than higher level pvp on the other hand higher level pvp is fast paced.

now what I'm gonna say may seems to be bit rude but its fact that low level pvp specially very low level pvp depends more on builds etc but depends less on skills (not the classs skills I talked about), actually its all about utilizing the class benefits and 'op' maxed point skills.

[Trenton]

IMO low level pvp is bit boring to me, and less challenging than higher level pvp on the other hand higher level pvp is fast paced.

now what I'm gonna say may seems to be bit rude but its fact that low level pvp specially very low level pvp depends more on builds etc but depends less on skills (not the classs skills I talked about), actually its all about utilizing the class benefits and 'op' maxed point skills. I was thinking the same thing. I believe that 20-35 pre-forg actually WAS a ton of fun, and I could see me liking it better than 50-66. I just believe that I would rather play on my 50, 66, 70, etc. now because forg has made it that a complete newbie can kill you 10-0. When I had to respec my 26 Mage for an Fbow, it was completely different and alot more difficult to me. I was used to more armor, and a wand. I always kited, and with an Fbow, you can definitely not kite, because mages now can nuke in two seconds. Anyways, I would vote high level because its just alot more fun, with more tourneys and mature players.

[Blastyou]

Fbow is OP, but I don't think it entirely ruins the competition down here (I do 15-20). And while it is true that some of the players are immature, the ones at 20 are actually pretty cool. As for upper level...my experience has been mixed. There actually seems to be LESS variety in gear and skill builds above 50ish than there is at 20. And to those of you who say there is little skill involved in low level, I would suggest trying talon bear and 15/20 paw mage. Yes, birds are very OP due to high dodge and fbows, but things aren't quite as unbalanced as everyone seems to believe.

[Trenton]

Fbow is OP, but I don't think it entirely ruins the competition down here (I do 15-20). And while it is true that some of the players are immature, the ones at 20 are actually pretty cool. As for upper level...my experience has been mixed. There actually seems to be LESS variety in gear and skill builds above 50ish than there is at 20. And to those of you who say there is little skill involved in low level, I would suggest trying talon bear and 15/20 paw mage. Yes, birds are very OP due to high dodge and fbows, but things aren't quite as unbalanced as everyone seems to believe. Higher level has a lower variety of gear? Wut? L5-27 uses either armsman, or expert/artisan, any dex helm, and an Fbow, or op Halloween item/talon. L50 has death, shadow, hate, rift, cosmos, void, and cyber. L51 has tons of types of noob items that are actually good, such as drainers. L51-L55 has raid, mm, ff, crafted versions, rs, etc. L56 has glyph, and the nub items that you can still kill with. It just keeps going on and on with the "variety" as higher levels have a better selection.

[NotYoCookiez]

Trenton is right about the variety part. Level 50-61 pvp every single item that drops in maps are good in pvp. Low levels you NEED to have a forgotten or Halloween item to win.

[Trenton]

Trenton is right about the variety part. Level 50-61 pvp every single item that drops in maps are good in pvp. Low levels you NEED to have a forgotten or Halloween item to win. SV agreed with me. <3









































Oh ya


















































Hai der Stalking Victim

[Blastyou]

I see your point about lvl 50 and sewer gear, but I feel like 56+ it's expected that you have a specific set of gear (obe/charmin/bigtop/sm at 56, same or demonic at 60, etc.). I'm not sure how viable lesser pinks would actually be in PvP at these levels, but I doubt they would hold up very well.

[Trenton]

I see your point about lvl 50 and sewer gear, but I feel like 56+ it's expected that you have a specific set of gear (obe/charmin/bigtop/sm at 56, same or demonic at 60, etc.). I'm not sure how viable lesser pinks would actually be in PvP at these levels, but I doubt they would hold up very well. It's the same thing with low level. If you don't have an Fbow/Halloween, you won't win against them except with a little luck. Same with L60 etc. Using mimicry bow, drainer armor and drainer helm you can kill a demonic, just because you dodge good. It's just the fact of no one has anything different at low level, it's all experts and Fbow, experts and Fbow, armsman and Fbow. At least you see some good pallies, warbirds etc. at high levels.

[Roberto077]

Tough question: immaturity vs boredom

Then again, low level is also very boring and 56 has a lot of rude, immature people.

Answer: both suck

[loliamsocool]

Level 15 mage vs mage is probably the most fun class that anybody could ever do. You have to adapt your build to the other persons, change your combo up every so often, and waste a lot of plat finding a build to fit you. The fun part is in that not one build is the "Best" build, unlike other classes where there is actually a pretty set "best build"

[Fallen_Chisk_Angels]

i didn't pvp at low level when Fbows didn't exist but i wish i did because people make it sound really fun... I did pvp at L15-20 with a Fbow bird and it really wasn't much of a challenge to get above a 2.0 kdr.

[loliamsocool]

i didn't pvp at low level when Fbows didn't exist but i wish i did because people make it sound really fun... I did pvp at L15-20 with a Fbow bird and it really wasn't much of a challenge to get above a 2.0 kdr.

For me, it's mainly mage before buffs that was truly "fun" or "challenging", for bears and birds, there's a set pattern you have to do to actually be successful...
Anyway the PvP isn't so different...
It's the same for you endgame peoples, it's all about the range here and it's mostly about the range there it seems. It's just the way you enjoy gaming, do you like the thrill of the smack, and laughing at stupid kids, or do you enjoy the presence of mature (or seemingly so) people?

[McMaximusMax]

In low level pvp if you don't have a forgotten bow your dead. It has completely changed the way low level pvp is played today

[Zapoke]

Look, the variety argument is invalid. Sure, in 10-26 PvP you basically need a Forg or H'ween, but I know that in 30-35 PvP at least, you can viably use normal pinks and still win. Not to mention that low level PvP takes a lot more knowledge of how stats and abilities work, and there's lots of different ways to play a class.

I like 50-55 PvP, I really do. It's balanced and there's plenty of ways to play (meaning gear changes namely), but realistically builds generally look the same, and gameplay is also the same across gear. I wouldn't play a pure int Mage any different than I play my Death Mage. Only difference is that I don't have much auto attack damage. The thing is that on a 35 Mage, I can choose abilities that I like, to play in different ways. Kiting and damage isn't one in the same, as it is past level 40. You have to sacrifice points in heal for damage, and you can move your damage around. You can also viably be dex, int, or str (as you can in 50-55) with multitudes of different sets.

The question of endgame vs twinking is an easy difference. Twinking requires both knowledge and skill. Endgame simply requires money and some basic class knowledge and ability. Where's the skill required in hitting 500 with every ability?

[Fallen_Chisk_Angels]

For me, it's mainly mage before buffs that was truly "fun" or "challenging", for bears and birds, there's a set pattern you have to do to actually be successful...
Anyway the PvP isn't so different...
It's the same for you endgame peoples, it's all about the range here and it's mostly about the range there it seems. It's just the way you enjoy gaming, do you like the thrill of the smack, and laughing at stupid kids, or do you enjoy the presence of mature (or seemingly so) people?
yeah i was going to try out a 15 mage, but unfortunatly i have lost a lot of free time ever sence i joined a soccer club, but ill be sure to try a mage out soon just for the challenge.

[Blastyou]

In low level pvp if you don't have a forgotten bow your dead. It has completely changed the way low level pvp is played today

Not entirely true; my 20 talon bear can beat all but the best fbow users at that level. The real issue is that new players don't even TRY fighting without fbows; they either assume it's impossible or give it a shot once or twice before returning to their shiny OP bow. I think if people worried a bit less about the numbers on their profile and a bit more about increasing their skills with different weapons, we would have much less of a problem with fbows. Yes, they're extremely overpowered, but they aren't the end of the world. Most people will fight you with your weapon of choice (talon, paw, xbow, etc); only the really new players will insist on an fbow fight.

[loliamsocool]

Look, the variety argument is invalid. Sure, in 10-26 PvP you basically need a Forg or H'ween, but I know that in 30-35 PvP at least, you can viably use normal pinks and still win. Not to mention that low level PvP takes a lot more knowledge of how stats and abilities work, and there's lots of different ways to play a class.

I like 50-55 PvP, I really do. It's balanced and there's plenty of ways to play (meaning gear changes namely), but realistically builds generally look the same, and gameplay is also the same across gear. I wouldn't play a pure int Mage any different than I play my Death Mage. Only difference is that I don't have much auto attack damage. The thing is that on a 35 Mage, I can choose abilities that I like, to play in different ways. Kiting and damage isn't one in the same, as it is past level 40. You have to sacrifice points in heal for damage, and you can move your damage around. You can also viably be dex, int, or str (as you can in 50-55) with multitudes of different sets.

The question of endgame vs twinking is an easy difference. Twinking requires both knowledge and skill. Endgame simply requires money and some basic class knowledge and ability. Where's the skill required in hitting 500 with every ability?

Yes, you summed up my feelings and formed them into a more anti-endgame stance, well put anyway. However, I still think that once mage gets buffs, it's basically not as fun anymore. You should do 15 mage PvP, it truly is the best pvp level for mage vs mage. Especially since the points you made for low level twinking are the ones that level 15 maximizes most. Come down and play here, lol.

[loliamsocool]

Not entirely true; my 20 talon bear can beat all but the best fbow users at that level. The real issue is that new players don't even TRY fighting without fbows; they either assume it's impossible or give it a shot once or twice before returning to their shiny OP bow. I think if people worried a bit less about the numbers on their profile and a bit more about increasing their skills with different weapons, we would have much less of a problem with fbows. Yes, they're extremely overpowered, but they aren't the end of the world. Most people will fight you with your weapon of choice (talon, paw, xbow, etc); only the really new players will insist on an fbow fight.

Not even extremely overpowered, the reason why the fbows win is simply because of the hit percent debuff it has. This is probably also the reason why a 20 bear can beat an fbow bear most of the time, simply because the hell scream debuffs the hit%. I bet if they just removed the procs from the new weapons, complaints would decrease by ALOT.

And to the people who think you must have fbow, you don't. Most decent PvPers (bears) can talon any fbow simply because of the added crit% pushing it over 50%, and at that threshold it seems to crit ALOT more than 49%, 48% lol. It makes no sense but once you try it, you will see. Well at least we can talon them until the hit debuff activates.


REMOVE THE DEBUFF!
REMOVE THE DEBUFF!
REMOVE THE DEBUFF!

[Waug]

its not about endgame vs twinkig its about higher lvl vs lower level PvP, actually higher lvl PvP is quite decent than lower level until "extra dodge" and "OP" DMG ruins it.

I totally disagree with the point that lower lvl requires more knowledge and skills actually its totally opposite, lower lvl is mostly utilizing class benifts for that particular level. for example low level dex bears depends mostly on auto, don't disagree its the fact, bears maxed their buff and get that huge DMG and DPS buff then combine it with high damaging bow that is not small at all for low level, similarly mages full crit buffs at particular points makes it op similarly as birds dodge buff, its not everything just an example.


also everything I talked in my earlier post and this one, I actually talked about pre-forggotten era.

[Noodleleg]

Dis gam sux. I gu tou Roonscayp.

[loliamsocool]

It does require more knowledge and skill on how to utilize your benefits. Your argument is making me lolwut.
Does not other classes at endgame have much more powerful buffs to take advantage of and utilize? what is it now, 9 points, 8 points? 7? I don't know.
And that is the sad fact. They keep adding more skill points to the skills. Why? because the levels are getting so high that they can almost put all points into all important skills. You can almost max everything important and have good skill build. The lower and lower you get, the more options you have to choose from. Instead of "hmm...i'll just max all the important skills like rage beckon stomp evade, etc and then have less points in the minor ones like restore" It's more like crap, I've got to decide now whether I'd like to kite bears or become legit mage vs mage pvper. 6 light? 6 fire? Both? Do I want to be good counter? Do I want to be good one shot nuke? We have more play styles to choose from.

I understand your point of the buffs, which is why my favorite class is still 15 mage. no buffs, no high damage, just grind it out through your build and play style. So fun!

EDIT: Sorry I couldn't present my thoughts clearer I was just confused on how you could make that argument.

[Zapoke]

its not about endgame vs twinkig its about higher lvl vs lower level PvP, actually higher lvl PvP is quite decent than lower level until "extra dodge" and "OP" DMG ruins it.

I totally disagree with the point that lower lvl requires more knowledge and skills actually its totally opposite, lower lvl is mostly utilizing class benifts for that particular level. for example low level dex bears depends mostly on auto, don't disagree its the fact, bears maxed their buff and get that huge DMG and DPS buff then combine it with high damaging bow that is not small at all for low level, similarly mages full crit buffs at particular points makes it op similarly as birds dodge buff, its not everything just an example.


also everything I talked in my earlier post and this one, I actually talked about pre-forggotten era.

I separate this game into 4 sections of PvP. Endgame (71+), Upper twinking (50-70), Mid twinking (30-45), and low twinking (10-26). The omitted levels have to few people to be of consequence.
Low level twinking, yes, it's extremely simple to learn. Max buffs to win. Easy. But taking that level range and calling all non 50+ level PvP like that is stupid. Bears will always only be a one trick pony (not exactly, but you get my point, yes?). I hardly see how beckon stomp win is any better than press auto attack. But like I mentioned, 30-35 requires a lot of knowledge of the class you play. You need to know what gear best suits your skill build, and what skill build best suits you. 50-55 PvP has the best combat balance, that's true, but it does not require much knowledge of a class's skills, as you can basically max any relevant skills. And don't even get me started about endgame.. 56 and up has a huge problem with armor balancing, so that's where I consider the sets to fall out of sync. Pretty small window of balance if you ask me.

I don't think you have done much twinking, otherwise you would realize how much skill twinks actually require. If you haven't, then I don't think you can really make an accurate argument about this.



And ninja'd.

[loliamsocool]

I separate this game into 4 sections of PvP. Endgame (71+), Upper twinking (50-70), Mid twinking (30-45), and low twinking (10-26). The omitted levels have to few people to be of consequence.
Low level twinking, yes, it's extremely simple to learn. Max buffs to win. Easy. But taking that level range and calling all non 50+ level PvP like that is stupid. Bears will always only be a one trick pony (not exactly, but you get my point, yes?). I hardly see how beckon stomp win is any better than press auto attack. But like I mentioned, 30-35 requires a lot of knowledge of the class you play. You need to know what gear best suits your skill build, and what skill build best suits you. 50-55 PvP has the best combat balance, that's true, but it does not require much knowledge of a class's skills, as you can basically max any relevant skills. 56 and up has a huge problem with armor balancing, so that's where I consider the sets to fall out of sync. Pretty small window if you ask me.

I don't think you have done much twinking, otherwise you would realize how much skill twinks actually require. If you haven't, then I don't think you can really make an accurate argument about this.


I love you you are now best forumer lolol, pls grace ur soul on 15 mage and bless our humble village.

[Waug]

keep lol-ing, Lolz. u actually missed the point its not about getting more skill points on buffs. its getting different skills on different levels for different classes and just utilizing it, that makes that particular class op for that level range thus making unbalance for all the classes for that particular level range. example was stated before so please read it carefully.

[Zapoke]

keep lol-ing, Lolz. u actually missed the point its not about getting more skill points on buffs. its getting different skills on different levels for different classes and just utilizing it, that makes that particular class op for that level range thus making unbalance for all the classes for that particular level range. example was stated before so please read it carefully.

You're doing it again. You're calling 24- PvP the same as all twinking levels..

[loliamsocool]

keep lol-ing, Lolz. u actually missed the point its not about getting more skill points on buffs. its getting different skills on different levels for different classes and just utilizing it, that makes that particular class op for that level range thus making unbalance for all the classes for that particular level range. example was stated before so please read it carefully.

Exactly, I did. Does not at 15 the only thing without buffs are mages?
At 76, all classes have buffs. The only levels that you can apply it to then are 10-19, when mages finally get buffs. Referring to the rest of low level pvp is not valid to your argument at all since, mages receive tank buff at 20, and actually win birds with it.

Also, it's pretty balanced for mages, they can kite bears easily and kill mages in 1v1, which represented a large portion of the community...before forg at least.

Thank u sir.

[Waug]

I separate this game into 4 sections of PvP. Endgame (71+), Upper twinking (50-70), Mid twinking (30-45), and low twinking (10-26). The omitted levels have to few people to be of consequence.
Low level twinking, yes, it's extremely simple to learn. Max buffs to win. Easy. But taking that level range and calling all non 50+ level PvP like that is stupid. Bears will always only be a one trick pony (not exactly, but you get my point, yes?). I hardly see how beckon stomp win is any better than press auto attack. But like I mentioned, 30-35 requires a lot of knowledge of the class you play. You need to know what gear best suits your skill build, and what skill build best suits you. 50-55 PvP has the best combat balance, that's true, but it does not require much knowledge of a class's skills, as you can basically max any relevant skills. And don't even get me started about endgame.. 56 and up has a huge problem with armor balancing, so that's where I consider the sets to fall out of sync. Pretty small window of balance if you ask me.

I don't think you have done much twinking, otherwise you would realize how much skill twinks actually require. If you haven't, then I don't think you can really make an accurate argument about this.



And ninja'd.

let's get straight to it.

lol, thus you're calling a lvl range most balanced where mages are op, and you play as mage. obviously its balanced.

[Zapoke]

I separate this game into 4 sections of PvP. Endgame (71+), Upper twinking (50-70), Mid twinking (30-45), and low twinking (10-26). The omitted levels have to few people to be of consequence.
Low level twinking, yes, it's extremely simple to learn. Max buffs to win. Easy. But taking that level range and calling all non 50+ level PvP like that is stupid. Bears will always only be a one trick pony (not exactly, but you get my point, yes?). I hardly see how beckon stomp win is any better than press auto attack. But like I mentioned, 30-35 requires a lot of knowledge of the class you play. You need to know what gear best suits your skill build, and what skill build best suits you. 50-55 PvP has the best combat balance, that's true, but it does not require much knowledge of a class's skills, as you can basically max any relevant skills. And don't even get me started about endgame.. 56 and up has a huge problem with armor balancing, so that's where I consider the sets to fall out of sync. Pretty small window of balance if you ask me.

I don't think you have done much twinking, otherwise you would realize how much skill twinks actually require. If you haven't, then I don't think you can really make an accurate argument about this.



And ninja'd.

let's get straight to it.

lol, thus you're calling a lvl range most balanced where mages are op, and you play as mage. obviously its balanced.

What are you talking about? Mages are not OP in sewers.

[Waug]

y it should be? l50 range is most classy levels. we talked about l30-35

[Zapoke]

y it should be? l50 range is most classy levels. we talked about l30-35

Ah, swamps? Sure, mages are strongest there. I never said anything about it being the best balanced level range.. I just said it was an extremely versatile level, and it requires more knowledge about classes. And just because my main 35 was a Voodoo doesn't mean I haven't played anything else. I had a Warbird, Copperbear, and Terrer Bear, too.

[Waug]

so what's the point of agreement? O.o


l50 range can't be consider as low level, even literally l38 is mid lvl, though IMO anything less than l50 should be consider as low level from a particular point of view.

[OverkillED]

I'd pick high level, as it has more mature players in comparison to low level. Anything 50 and up has a great variety of class and spec combinations as well (pallies, int mages, dex mages, int bears, str/dex mixed bears, int birds, dexbirds, and warbirds) as more actual CTF games. It's more fast paced and less trash talk overall. Forgotten bows just made everyone become full dex in low level and variety was killed, also causing more unique specs become closer to becoming extinct. Generally more immature and younger players play low level because it's dirt cheap (wasn't as cheap pre recipe drop nerf haha) and because it's not such a hassle to level and more new players are still leveling. The community used to be more hospitable to noobs but most of the older players quit and few players willing to help the new players remain. In my opinion, I just like "rushing" or fast paced FFA/CTF so I prefer high level. I fully agree with Trent and Notyo.

[Pokozo]

Pfft that friend of your said low level players are rich? LOL.

In my opinion preforg low levels (20-40) was much more fun than high levels. Forgs ruined it, high level is more fun now.

[ThePvpTwink]

Low level gear costs significantly less than high level gear assuming its not Xmas gear..200k for an fbow :/

High level actually requires more skill and attention and more mature...I prefer l50-61 pvp and endgame ctf

[Zapoke]

Low level gear costs significantly less than high level gear assuming its not Xmas gear..200k for an fbow :/

Of course it does. Wasn't always like that, though.



High level actually requires more skill and attention and more mature...I prefer l50-61 pvp and endgame ctf

Yes, endgame requires more attention. But the only "skill" you need in endgame is the ability to see 12 meters.

[Fortal123]

I didn't bother myself by reading any of the comments, or even the second half of your thread. Low lvl PvPers don't necessarily have to be rich, since the gear generally costs less than a mil (which is, nowadays, considered close to nothing). And, since you said high lvl PvPers are skilled, you made me laugh even harder than he did with the first part (which was, partly, true). Since endgame gear costs, in fact, way more than a mil (assuming it's about 3-5mil now), you could say all an endgamer needs is gold, which can be obtained by stupid farming (as most of them obtain it ;)), and endgame PvP requires no skill at all ever since 71 cap. It's one ability fights, or, as I prefer to refer to it, ''Blast GF'' fights. So, yeah, endgamers are nothing but dummy, cocky farmers, unless they have a twink between 35-66. Low lvl PvP did require a lot of skill before fbows, and it still does, sort of. People who aren't using fbows need more skill to beat those who are, so it got divided into 2 general groups, pros and noobs. I'd say bears require no skill, and they never have, since it's all about crits. Class that does require skill though, mages, got nearly taken over by fbows. Here's the conclusion: Mages: 1-21 - noobs, 22-35 - good, unless using fbows, 50-65 - if they can win, they're good, regardless of the gear, 66+ noobs, I personally only use my 66s to rush other 66s who rushed my 56-61s. Bears: 1-34 - noobs, 35 copper bears - should be considered good, although it's very luck based, 50-65 - good, with an exception of dexbears, 66+ noobs. Birds: 1-76 all noobs, birds take no skill at all (although I do have some birds), it's all just luck, with that stupid dodge and whatnot... So, yeah, if you want to play PvP level range that actually does require some skill, go for 50-65, with an addition of a 66 to rush other 66s who rushed your lower level twinks. Cocky endgame nooby blast gf pros, bring your hate on!!!

[Zapoke]

I didn't bother myself by reading any of the comments, or even the second half of your thread. Low lvl PvPers don't necessarily have to be rich, since the gear generally costs less than a mil (which is, nowadays, considered close to nothing). And, since you said high lvl PvPers are skilled, you made me laugh even harder than he did with the first part (which was, partly, true). Since endgame gear costs, in fact, way more than a mil (assuming it's about 3-5mil now), you could say all an endgamer needs is gold, which can be obtained by stupid farming (as most of them obtain it ;)), and endgame PvP requires no skill at all ever since 71 cap. It's one ability fights, or, as I prefer to refer to it, ''Blast GF'' fights. So, yeah, endgamers are nothing but dummy, cocky farmers, unless they have a twink between 35-66. Low lvl PvP did require a lot of skill before fbows, and it still does, sort of. People who aren't using fbows need more skill to beat those who are, so it got divided into 2 general groups, pros and noobs. I'd say bears require no skill, and they never have, since it's all about crits. Class that does require skill though, mages, got nearly taken over by fbows. Here's the conclusion: Mages: 1-21 - noobs, 22-35 - good, unless using fbows, 50-65 - if they can win, they're good, regardless of the gear, 66+ noobs, I personally only use my 66s to rush other 66s who rushed my 56-61s. Bears: 1-34 - noobs, 35 copper bears - should be considered good, although it's very luck based, 50-65 - good, with an exception of dexbears, 66+ noobs. Birds: 1-76 all noobs, birds take no skill at all (although I do have some birds), it's all just luck, with that stupid dodge and whatnot... So, yeah, if you want to play PvP level range that actually does require some skill, go for 50-65, with an addition of a 66 to rush other 66s who rushed your lower level twinks. Cocky endgame nooby blast gf pros, bring your hate on!!!

You have a few good points, but if you had read the comments you would have noticed that they've all been said already. Also, many people will simply disregard your post because of the first sentence. I mean, you didn't even finish reading the very first post.. Really? :dispirited:

[Waug]

"birds L1-76 : all noobs" - its looks like you are the only pro in game.

:ignore:ignor: he's not even deserve any criticism. then u have to start it from the begining, ah gonna sleep bye-bye.

[Swords]

Low lvl pvp requires skill than high lvl pvp which is pure luck dodge and one shot kills. But I rather go on with high lvl pvp because people actually uses sets rather than low lvl pvp with those annoying fb nukes

[Trenton]

Low lvl pvp requires skill than high lvl pvp which is pure luck dodge and one shot kills. But I rather go on with high lvl pvp because people actually uses sets rather than low lvl pvp with those annoying fb nukes Exactly, Fbow requires no skill.

[Gaunab]

I find it funny how many people say that endgame requires no skill because its dodgebased etc, but yet there are handful of players (mainly oldies) who are able to tear apart any other team despite using the same gear. What people dont realise is that the "luck" statistically evens out over time and in the end all that is left to make a difference is the players skill and teamwork.

Its not a coincidence that almost every twink tournament has been won by an endgamer.

[loliamsocool]

I find it funny how many people say that endgame requires no skill because its dodgebased etc, but yet there are handful of players (mainly oldies) who are able to tear apart any other team despite using the same gear. What people dont realise is that the "luck" statistically evens out over time and in the end all that is left to make a difference is the players skill and teamwork.

Its not a coincidence that almost every twink tournament has been won by an endgamer.

Probably because those twinkers were actually decent twinks who moved up to endgame with time, lol. Also because many of the best twinks are non-active forumers, and are not able to see the tourneys unless someone is willing to risk their chance of winning by telling them. For example, my 15 tourney, Bous has not signed up yet, and people regard him, and 3 other twinks as the best 15s who are active, yet only ONE out of the 4 has signed up for the tourney.

Hey, for example take Zapoke, hopefully I'm right in that he was a pro 26 before he was a pro higher level. If i'm wrong then poo, there's other examples anyway probably.

EDIT: What I meant was not they were twinkers first, although some of them were. ALOT of them had a few streaky months of pro twinking before retiring and going back to finish the next cap or something.

[Roberto077]

I find it funny how many people say that endgame requires no skill because its dodgebased etc, but yet there are handful of players (mainly oldies) who are able to tear apart any other team despite using the same gear. What people dont realise is that the "luck" statistically evens out over time and in the end all that is left to make a difference is the players skill and teamwork.

Its not a coincidence that almost every twink tournament has been won by an endgamer.

During the Fang cap my kdr was 3000-5000

Since I played Humania endgame and BSM endgame with crafted sets my kdr has gone up to 7500-7000. I don't believe people do KDR jumps of that magnitude unless there is unbalance/luck, boosting, or twinking. Considering how the endgame is almost a complete dodge/crit fest, I think it was luck.

[loliamsocool]

During the Fang cap my kdr was 3000-5000

Since I played Humania endgame and BSM endgame with crafted sets my kdr has gone up to 7500-7000. I don't believe people do KDR jumps of that magnitude unless there is unbalance/luck, boosting, or twinking. Considering how the endgame is almost a complete dodge/crit fest, I think it was luck.

Er but then again like he said every one is outfitted with the same gear. Most likely during this cap there has been more FFA and more likely than not your experience leads to better FFA and your range is probably better than the randoms that you may meet in endgame.

Luck is also a huge factor though, but give yourself some credit ;)

[Chang Yeo]

Everyone - get together and all meet in the middle at L.56 :D

[Zapoke]

Everyone - get together and all meet in the middle at L.56 :D

That's a twink level. ;)

[Itoopeo]

I prefer L50(bear) and L71(talon set bird) PvP. All below L50 is full of fbow noobs. L56 is okay L61 is so expensive and L66 does not have ability to one shot anyone.

[Zeus]

Probably because those twinkers were actually decent twinks who moved up to endgame with time, lol. Also because many of the best twinks are non-active forumers, and are not able to see the tourneys unless someone is willing to risk their chance of winning by telling them. For example, my 15 tourney, Bous has not signed up yet, and people regard him, and 3 other twinks as the best 15s who are active, yet only ONE out of the 4 has signed up for the tourney.

Hey, for example take Zapoke, hopefully I'm right in that he was a pro 26 before he was a pro higher level. If i'm wrong then poo, there's other examples anyway probably.

EDIT: What I meant was not they were twinkers first, although some of them were. ALOT of them had a few streaky months of pro twinking before retiring and going back to finish the next cap or something.

Yich & Ent would say the same things about endgamers. Infact, Yich made a thread to challenge end gamers to try twinking. Lets just say that he didn't win the challenge.

What twinks don't realize is that end gamers created twinking for you. Heck, the oldies PvPd at those levels when they were considered the cap! Again, whatever twinks know can usually be traced back to an endgamer.

[Zeus]

During the Fang cap my kdr was 3000-5000

Since I played Humania endgame and BSM endgame with crafted sets my kdr has gone up to 7500-7000. I don't believe people do KDR jumps of that magnitude unless there is unbalance/luck, boosting, or twinking. Considering how the endgame is almost a complete dodge/crit fest, I think it was luck.

BSM, maybe, but Humania? I don't think so. Heck, check out the L71 bear tournament. There was a consistent score of beating people by 10-5 or less.

[Fortal123]

You have a few good points, but if you had read the comments you would have noticed that they've all been said already. Also, many people will simply disregard your post because of the first sentence. I mean, you didn't even finish reading the very first post.. Really? :dispirited:

I did not bother myself by reading the rest because the question was asked in the title, and I know how cocky endgamers get, and the same goes for low lvl PvPers, so I figured what the comments would be like. This is an overused topic, and this is my clear opinion statement, because I have always been too lazy to write it all out.

[Fortal123]

I find it funny how many people say that endgame requires no skill because its dodgebased etc, but yet there are handful of players (mainly oldies) who are able to tear apart any other team despite using the same gear. What people dont realise is that the "luck" statistically evens out over time and in the end all that is left to make a difference is the players skill and teamwork.

Its not a coincidence that almost every twink tournament has been won by an endgamer.
Though you would have a good point, you might have misread some comments that other people (including me) have said. I said that endgame requires no skill, not that all endgamers are noobs. Vast majority is, of course, mainly people who started doing endgame after 71 cap, they're just cocky noobs. But saying that endgame requires no skill and that endgamers are noobs isn't entirely the same thing. People who have been playing since 50/56 cap might yet have skill FROM that level cap, where it still did require skill, thus can yet win tournaments. Also, saying that ''luck evens out'' makes no sense, because the game eventually has to end sometime, so if it did even out, the game would never end. There is a higher possibility (nearing certainty) of a game ending than not ending, because it would stay 0-0 - 4-4 until the end of times, if it did even out. Also, it's very much about teamwork, but single elimination is different. I know some people who could claim to be the best but not entering the tournaments. Endgamers simply win because: a) they have the money for all the sets (''pro'' farmers;)), b) there are way toooo many endgamers, c) they may yet have skill from previous caps. You made a good point, though. Just felt the imminent need to correct the incorrect.

[Fortal123]

That's a twink level. ;)

Not a low lvl though, and it's one of the few levels that require some skill. The discussion is between low lvl and high lvl, not twinking lvls.

[Fortal123]

Yich & Ent would say the same things about endgamers. Infact, Yich made a thread to challenge end gamers to try twinking. Lets just say that he didn't win the challenge.

What twinks don't realize is that end gamers created twinking for you. Heck, the oldies PvPd at those levels when they were considered the cap! Again, whatever twinks know can usually be traced back to an endgamer.
When was lv10 a cap? :O

[Fortal123]

BSM, maybe, but Humania? I don't think so. Heck, check out the L71 bear tournament. There was a consistent score of beating people by 10-5 or less.

Wow, that totally proves 71 PvP is 100% skill based!

[Zeus]

Wow, that totally proves 71 PvP is 100% skill based!

Wow, ever heard of L9 skills increase? Smart thinker we have here! :p


I was talking about the L71 tournament during the Humania cap.

[Zeus]

When was lv10 a cap? :O

End gamers are the one who created L10 twinks. Also, obviously I meant since the beginning of campaigns/PvP release. C'mon now, quit trying to be a smart ***, Fort.

[Fortal123]

End gamers are the one who created L10 twinks. Also, obviously I meant since the beginning of campaigns/PvP release. C'mon now, quit trying to be a smart ***, Fort.

I'm just teasing you mate. Neither endgame nor low lvl requires any superior skill, that's a fact. Not worth getting into an argument with a friend over such matters. :-) I'd say that that this topic is the same as religious discussions, people will never agree.
Besides, I don't need to try, it's in my nature. :P

[Zapoke]

Not a low lvl though, and it's one of the few levels that require some skill. The discussion is between low lvl and high lvl, not twinking lvls.

You seem to have missed the point. While Low level PvP has a "range" of levels, endgame is pretty much one level. Meeting in the middle defeats the purpose. People prefer endgame because of the fact that it's endgame. Twinkers play level ranges that they like. How many people do you honestly think will stay 76 once the level cap goes up? People to lazy to level. I can't see 76 being a very active level for twinks in the future, honestly. And besides, how is 56 between 76 and 26? Wouldn't it be 50? :p

[Fortal123]

You seem to have missed the point. While Low level PvP has a "range" of levels, endgame is pretty much one level. Meeting in the middle defeats the purpose. People prefer endgame because of the fact that it's endgame. Twinkers play level ranges that they like. How many people do you honestly think will stay 76 once the level cap goes up? People to lazy to level. I can't see 76 being a very active level for twinks in the future, honestly. And besides, how is 56 between 76 and 26? Wouldn't it be 50? :p
People prefer endgame because of the fact *it requires no skill, so the fact that the vast majority of them sucks doesn't carry that much weight (that was something I HAD TO correct :P. And I did not deny that 56 was a twinking level, nor did I say that 'twas in the middle, I simply stated that it's one of the few levels that require skill, thus they should try that. Also I think the point why Chan pointed it out, because 35 (roughly the middle) has been taken over by fbows. Clear?
EDIT: And no, it would not be 50 (assuming it wasn't sarcasm), it would be more like 35, because it's closer to 37.5 (or at least I'm almost sure of the fact that 35 is closer to 37.5 than 50).

[Zapoke]

People prefer endgame because of the fact *it requires no skill, so the fact that the vast majority of them sucks doesn't carry that much weight (that was something I HAD TO correct :P. And I did not deny that 56 was a twinking level, nor did I say that 'twas in the middle, I simply stated that it's one of the few levels that require skill, thus they should try that. Also I think the point why Chan pointed it out, because 35 (roughly the middle) has been taken over by fbows. Clear?
EDIT: And no, it would not be 50 (assuming it wasn't sarcasm), it would be more like 35, because it's closer to 37.5 (or at least I'm almost sure of the fact that 35 is closer to 37.5 than 50).

So how is the middle of 26 and 76 37.5? Lol. 76-26=50. 50/2 = 25. 25+26= 51? Anyway, it was sarcasm. And the skilled players won't stay 76, which makes that level irrelevant (just like 40-49 was irrelevant until after Fbows) after the cap increase. That was what I was saying. I wasn't talking about the majority, I was talking about the people that dominate the level. Once they're gone, all that's left is what I compare to pre level 10 PvP. No one knows what to do, and they constantly get farmed by twinks of a higher level.

[Fortal123]

So how is the middle of 26 and 76 37.5? Lol. 76-26=50. 50/2 = 25. 25+26= 51? Anyway, it was sarcasm. And the skilled players won't stay 76, which makes that level irrelevant (just like 40-49 was irrelevant until after Fbows) after the cap increase. That was what I was saying. I wasn't talking about the majority, I was talking about the people that dominate the level. Once they're gone, all that's left is what I compare to pre level 10 PvP. No one knows what to do, and they constantly get farmed by twinks of a higher level.

WHAT? What kind of math is that? It's (taken endgame is also 75) 75 divided by 2, that's how you get half. Lol dude you just honestly made my day with that BS. It's just 75/2, what was that?
EDIT: I just noticed what you meant, but I wasn't talking about 26, I was talking about 1 to 76, since there were also some who tried that. And the half is 35 PvP (+- 5 lvls, 'cause they can join games).

[Waug]

There is one point that need to be clear, there are few unbalance issues in very high level PvP to endgame, that does not mean that good players are not good. its funny that how peoples with nearly even 5-15k combat experienced players (overall) consider them self so much experienced. where they should check the experience level of end gamers. Endgame is not constant its varrible that also means end gamers needs no commensurate with the new cap that arrives new sets new challenges and sometime out ta their zonar for example this cap no xbow set, at humania cap there was no longbow set while at fang there were both.

Obviously even it would be litlle bit more balanced, then endgame is most challenging and as I said somewhere the concentration of pro players is quite high compare to any other level.

[Caiahar]

My opinions
Endgame: Well, its a lil fun, but srsly, its no fun ppl killing u in a beckon+stomp or blast shot (and I cant even fight back as a 74 with 73 set D: ), but, without a doubt, endgame has many mature people.
The reason there are many mature people, is because many people are oldies, or people who played PL, and have done endgame many times.
So here, 1 shots and STUFF, but moar mature people.

Midgame: This level is decent, for me. I have a 56 bear, and IMO, its kinda balanced, and also have mature people, but at 56, bears are a little bit OP.
50, I do not know much of, but I hear its balanced.
So overall, mature people, and more balanced than low level or endgame.

Low level pvp: This is where everything comes in.
You have a voodoo mage before fb? Gl, because you'll have a tiny bit hard time against dem fbs.

This level is dominated by fbs, mages (which I HATE!) Practically become OP with an fb. But many fb mages usualky have no skill and just spam..
Bears and birds, well, I have to say that them with fb isn't THAT much of a problem. Reason? Mages actually a tiny bit OP without fb too, and bears and birds kinda dont stand a chance. Now with them having fb, poor birdy and behr also need a lil OPness to get themselves through.
Mind you, they are a bit of a problem, but not much.

Here is the final part of the low lvl speech:
OMG THIS LVL IS NOT MATURE OMGAJJDKAJF...
Yes, this is at 3 compared to midgame and endgame.
You wouldn't believe the trash talkers, cussers, etc.
They have low maturity, and they spawn, spawn, spawn, SPAWWWWN!!!
People here rage like heck over a single attack, if you happen to "rush" em friendly way, they start hunting you.
Did I forget something? Wait, I DID!
These people (most) don't know the first thing bout FFA nor CTF!
If you call out FFA, and few others agree, you start attacking and kill someone. That same person says "OMFG WTF RUSHOR" when its FFA.
He starts attacking too (thats whats hes supposed to do), but, whats more, even if you leave after a good FFA, he starts hunting you, goimg as far as calling guildies and teaming u, and even spawning.

Opinions Finishes (more like a rant lolz)

[joshtheboss]

My opinions
Endgame: Well, its a lil fun, but srsly, its no fun ppl killing u in a beckon+stomp or blast shot (and I cant even fight back as a 74 with 73 set D: ), but, without a doubt, endgame has many mature people.
The reason there are many mature people, is because many people are oldies, or people who played PL, and have done endgame many times.
So here, 1 shots and STUFF, but moar mature people.

Midgame: This level is decent, for me. I have a 56 bear, and IMO, its kinda balanced, and also have mature people, but at 56, bears are a little bit OP.
50, I do not know much of, but I hear its balanced.
So overall, mature people, and more balanced than low level or endgame.

Low level pvp: This is where everything comes in.
You have a voodoo mage before fb? Gl, because you'll have a tiny bit hard time against dem fbs.

This level is dominated by fbs, mages (which I HATE!) Practically become OP with an fb. But many fb mages usualky have no skill and just spam..
Bears and birds, well, I have to say that them with fb isn't THAT much of a problem. Reason? Mages actually a tiny bit OP without fb too, and bears and birds kinda dont stand a chance. Now with them having fb, poor birdy and behr also need a lil OPness to get themselves through.
Mind you, they are a bit of a problem, but not much.

Here is the final part of the low lvl speech:
OMG THIS LVL IS NOT MATURE OMGAJJDKAJF...
Yes, this is at 3 compared to midgame and endgame.
You wouldn't believe the trash talkers, cussers, etc.
They have low maturity, and they spawn, spawn, spawn, SPAWWWWN!!!
People here rage like heck over a single attack, if you happen to "rush" em friendly way, they start hunting you.
Did I forget something? Wait, I DID!
These people (most) don't know the first thing bout FFA nor CTF!
If you call out FFA, and few others agree, you start attacking and kill someone. That same person says "OMFG WTF RUSHOR" when its FFA.
He starts attacking too (thats whats hes supposed to do), but, whats more, even if you leave after a good FFA, he starts hunting you, goimg as far as calling guildies and teaming u, and even spawning.

Opinions Finishes (more like a rant lolz)

Calm down.

[Caiahar]

My opinions
Endgame: Well, its a lil fun, but srsly, its no fun ppl killing u in a beckon+stomp or blast shot (and I cant even fight back as a 74 with 73 set D: ), but, without a doubt, endgame has many mature people.
The reason there are many mature people, is because many people are oldies, or people who played PL, and have done endgame many times.
So here, 1 shots and STUFF, but moar mature people.

Midgame: This level is decent, for me. I have a 56 bear, and IMO, its kinda balanced, and also have mature people, but at 56, bears are a little bit OP.
50, I do not know much of, but I hear its balanced.
So overall, mature people, and more balanced than low level or endgame.

Low level pvp: This is where everything comes in.
You have a voodoo mage before fb? Gl, because you'll have a tiny bit hard time against dem fbs.

This level is dominated by fbs, mages (which I HATE!) Practically become OP with an fb. But many fb mages usualky have no skill and just spam..
Bears and birds, well, I have to say that them with fb isn't THAT much of a problem. Reason? Mages actually a tiny bit OP without fb too, and bears and birds kinda dont stand a chance. Now with them having fb, poor birdy and behr also need a lil OPness to get themselves through.
Mind you, they are a bit of a problem, but not much.

Here is the final part of the low lvl speech:
OMG THIS LVL IS NOT MATURE OMGAJJDKAJF...
Yes, this is at 3 compared to midgame and endgame.
You wouldn't believe the trash talkers, cussers, etc.
They have low maturity, and they spawn, spawn, spawn, SPAWWWWN!!!
People here rage like heck over a single attack, if you happen to "rush" em friendly way, they start hunting you.
Did I forget something? Wait, I DID!
These people (most) don't know the first thing bout FFA nor CTF!
If you call out FFA, and few others agree, you start attacking and kill someone. That same person says "OMFG WTF RUSHOR" when its FFA.
He starts attacking too (thats whats hes supposed to do), but, whats more, even if you leave after a good FFA, he starts hunting you, goimg as far as calling guildies and teaming u, and even spawning.

Opinions Finishes (more like a rant lolz)

Calm down.
Can't...my...brains...going...on...an...overload..

[Griffinfan]

A lot of you are saying endgame is more mature.


I have screenshots I am not aloud to post that would say other wise

[joshtheboss]

Maturity in this game. Lol.

[floats]

26-50 range is what I prefer.

Less dodge, more challenge since you can find forg users. The higher lvls are just one shot kill and moar dodge.

[floats]

Can't...my...brains...going...on...an...overload..

Gawd u rage dex D: scary.