PDA

View Full Version : Converting Resources



Cahaun
07-30-2013, 09:51 AM
I promised Thren that I would post this up for her so I'll post it up here and get everything organized when I get the pictures to help make the idea more understandable.

As we all know as of now, resources are lost when raided and can be really frustrating trying to save up for those high-cost upgrades with the raiders constantly prodding and taking away a large sum of your resources that you are trying to save. This is where Thren's idea will come into play that is inspired from the game called Emross War. In this game, one can convert gold into bricks which will make the bricks completely safe from raids should your place be overwhelmed. This will help people be able to save resources.
"Ok at the top (First Pic) you see the resources, iron, wood, gold, etc. This (Second Pic) one shows how you can convert the gold into bricks or bullion whatever they call it there. Read their description of it and notice how many can be made knowing how much gold I have from the first pic, I hit max on this one to show you. When you sell the bricks and bullions, it means it will convert it back to its original state (does not mean sell to another player)."
"Exchange system (Third Pic): Allows you to trade one resource for another but see how the amount you get of one requires a certain amount of the other."
"And last one: Production Control (Fourth Pic). This allows you to control the amount of resources produced at any given time. You can stop production at 0% but it means you won't get any res at all and there are limitations for it as well so you can't just log off and leave it at 0."

Here is just to give you a the basic idea of the system, and how it sort of works. She also told me to remind you that everything has its limits and fees otherwise we wouldn't have to raid others.
If you have any questions, just post them below and I will get to you.

Ryuu
07-30-2013, 12:44 PM
I can agree with converting resources to other resources, but not resources to non-steal-able items.
Even if you have a exchange rate that makes it so you don't get full value when reselling the non-steal-able items i believe it would possibly break PvP.

As far as converting resources to other resources(gold to sheep and sheep to gold) an exchange % cost would be necessary so you wouldn't get 100% returns.

Dizzy
07-30-2013, 12:58 PM
Other games have similar systems and it doesn't break their PvP. On the other hand, I can see lots of people quitting BD within a week of losing their initial guardian because they can't build up enough resources to defend their bases. It's frustrating. I'm already hearing it in my tribe chat. Non-pearl players are trying to build their defenses, but they keep getting raided and aren't getting anywhere.

2 things need to happen. 1) the matches need to be based on hall level, not trophies (it's not cool when someone with devastators attacks someone with a level 3 hall), and 2) there has to be a way of protecting at least SOME resources, or people will never be able to upgrade enough to fight off battles, and they'll just quit the game.

Cahaun
07-30-2013, 01:21 PM
I can agree with converting resources to other resources, but not resources to non-steal-able items.
Even if you have a exchange rate that makes it so you don't get full value when reselling the non-steal-able items i believe it would possibly break PvP.

As far as converting resources to other resources(gold to sheep and sheep to gold) an exchange % cost would be necessary so you wouldn't get 100% returns.
You don't quite understand what I'm saying do you? I have already said that there are fees and limits for about everything along with visual examples of how it was done in Emross War. It will not break PvP at all.

Cahaun
07-30-2013, 01:24 PM
Other games have similar systems and it doesn't break their PvP. On the other hand, I can see lots of people quitting BD within a week of losing their initial guardian because they can't build up enough resources to defend their bases. It's frustrating. I'm already hearing it in my tribe chat. Non-pearl players are trying to build their defenses, but they keep getting raided and aren't getting anywhere.

2 things need to happen. 1) the matches need to be based on hall level, not trophies (it's not cool when someone with devastators attacks someone with a level 3 hall), and 2) there has to be a way of protecting at least SOME resources, or people will never be able to upgrade enough to fight off battles, and they'll just quit the game.
Lots of people in my guild are frustrated by that very reason: people are having a very hard time saving up resources to continue forth while they have constant attacks and raids done against them which further sets them back in their attempts at trying to grow.

Ryuu
07-30-2013, 01:29 PM
I understood your pictures and your thought, but it already costs me about 15k sheep per assault with my current troops.
If I can't come close to securing that in a battle it seems worthless to me.

As far as people quitting because they lose their guardian.
You don't lose all your resources when attacked, you lose a percent.
After being attacked and defeated you are then given a NEW guardian.
It isn't a week long one, but still can help until they log on again.

Kaytar
07-30-2013, 04:44 PM
Thren asked me to keep track of this thread a bit. I copied and pasted the entire thread (ctrl+a+s lol jk haha) to an email for her so she has read the replies.

Here is her response:

Hellurr hun, thx for letting me know. Can you post this reply for me pls & thx! :)
▶▶▶The system allows players to save -some- res and -gradually- be able to save enough to upgrade res -while- still being able to get raided. The mines and barns still produce res while we are offline. Therefore players can still steal res from them by PvPing (mines & barns save res for us to manually transfer to storages so no need to just go for storages). Also, due to fees/taxes for converting res, we will still need the use of the storages as well. Especially since we have to be online to actually collect them and go through the process of saving them. Basicly, making it so that we don't have to be on BD 24/7 in order to make sure we have enough res saved up for builds. However, we still lose res the longer we stay offline, thats a given.

Yes, one player takes a percentage of res per attack. However, farmers learn quickly that you can currently attack a player multiple times w/o getting a star to wipe out their res (as I mentioned above). OR even do it strategicly with tribemates. Even players just coming across your base in PvP take a percentage.... Thus having a higher percentage accumulating the longer you are offline unless someone gets at least a 1 star, waits until the guardian is gone, looks for you in PvP, repeat. Then someone else comes along and repeats... etc.

glengon
07-30-2013, 05:08 PM
NO. I don't like this idea.. its pretty dumb :/ Anyways why do you wanna copy an idea from another game which looks pretty different?

Cahaun
07-30-2013, 08:52 PM
NO. I don't like this idea.. its pretty dumb :/ Anyways why do you wanna copy an idea from another game which looks pretty different?
Please explain why you don't like it, and it is not a direct copy from Emross War that I am asking for. To finish it off, I already explained why this type of mechanic and feature would be good for the game.

Dizzy
07-30-2013, 09:03 PM
A way of keeping your resources secured from raids is a pretty typical feature in RTS war games. It's not ripping off another game; it's adding something to the game mechanics that many other games of this type have.

glengon
07-30-2013, 09:44 PM
I dunno I just don't like it :/

Cahaun
07-30-2013, 10:56 PM
I dunno I just don't like it :/
You just got to dig a little deeper and concentrate really hard on the one aspect of the idea that doesn't feel right to you.

Ryuu
07-31-2013, 12:53 AM
@Kaytar/Cahaun/Thren it seems like you essentially only want for sheep barns and gold mines to be able to be raided. The problem I see with this is the cost of PvP not being worth it for only that. Someone goes and spends 10-?K fighting someone only to get the measly resources that are in currently being produced. I have an idea, why don't we just take away the PvP feature. Seems that is what you guys want.

If I can't recoup my loses, or even gain something, why bother.

They don't lose everything when attacked, and when defeated they get a guardian.

As far as farmers go, where they attack resources but don't get a star, just put your dragon hall outside your defenses so they have to attack it. Thus giving you a guardian.

glengon
07-31-2013, 03:24 AM
Hmm though I know that its annoying when people loot resources from us, i feel that the brick stuff does not fit in this game..bbesides, I like looting from others too.. I feel that the conversion system thingy and the last idea are unneeded too..

Cahaun
07-31-2013, 07:07 AM
Hmm though I know that its annoying when people loot resources from us, i feel that the brick stuff does not fit in this game..bbesides, I like looting from others too.. I feel that the conversion system thingy and the last idea are unneeded too..
You feel uncomfortable with the idea of having even more types of resources that they are converted to? Can you remind me what this "last idea" is?
You feel annoyed at being raided, so the system where you could gradually save resources was brought up. Yet you like to raid yourself, so the fees and limitations put on resource conversions were brought up to remind the PvP players that it won't break PvP. This will help improve the stability between resource management and PvP raiding so I can see that it is completely needed. You heard about the exploits people pull off in PvP right?
I think the main thing for some people to feel uncomfortable and nervous is that the pictures themselves may seem too complex to people and unnerve them by making them think that we're going to have all of the calculations in it should the idea be implemented. This will not be the case. It's merely the mechanics behind the system that Emross Wars has implemented that we are focusing on, and not on looks either.

glengon
07-31-2013, 08:20 AM
Yea I dislike the brick idea cause I feel that currently the resource buildings are good enough. I'm not really annoyed at being raided actually.. in fact I enjoy getting attacked. I'm only annoyed by this particular good player lol he likes to loot me. But this is a game, and my resources were looted from others too, so I can't complain about losing 200k in one attack. And the 'last idea' thingy is the production control thing. I would rather not have that.. I often loot from mines and barns, so yea..
Edit: and I feel that if we have a ggood base it won't be easy for people to loot us, so the resource management stuff is unneeded too. And knowing sts im preeeeetty sure this idea won't be implemented? Hmm I dunno I think I just don't like it lol that's why im thinking this way.. somehow...

Lol I wanna click the "reply button" , but this android sts app sucks so it doesnt work..

Rare
07-31-2013, 08:49 AM
i don't know if I agree with the resource hiding. I think, alternatively, a number of tweaks should be done. I feel like it will stunt the growth of the game. For lower levels as well as higher levels. Unless there is a cap put on how much you can hide.

1. PVP matches should be based on dragon hall level.
2. The level range should be +-1.
3. If you battle someone, you can take up to x% of their resource in one go (say 25%). If you battle someone lower than you, that percentage drops (say 10-15%). I don't actually know the percentages now, so this may be scewed.

Another couple options are:

1. You cannot steal resources from mines or barns. Only hoards and corrals. (I don't really like this idea)
2. If you don't "win" the match, your percentage of resources looted drops.

Cahaun
07-31-2013, 08:54 AM
Yea I dislike the brick idea cause I feel that currently the resource buildings are good enough. I'm not really annoyed at being raided actually.. in fact I enjoy getting attacked. I'm only annoyed by this particular good player lol he likes to loot me. But this is a game, and my resources were looted from others too, so I can't complain about losing 200k in one attack. And the 'last idea' thingy is the production control thing. I would rather not have that.. I often loot from mines and barns, so yea..
Edit: and I feel that if we have a ggood base it won't be easy for people to loot us, so the resource management stuff is unneeded too. And knowing sts im preeeeetty sure this idea won't be implemented? Hmm I dunno I think I just don't like it lol that's why im thinking this way.. somehow...

Lol I wanna click the "reply button" , but this android sts app sucks so it doesnt work..
We weren't really even wanting the resource management one in the end. That was included to show how the process was done in Emross Wars to show the mechanics and features that can be used in Battle Dragons.
If it's uncomfortable for you to have more than one resource, what is your overall view on the idea of people being able to slowly and gradually be able to save a small amount of their resources from their total amount so that they can have a good foundation of resources that they can rely on while having enough open resources that can still be plundered?

glengon
07-31-2013, 09:37 AM
Its not uncomfortable for me to "have more than one resource", actually i meant I didnt like the idea of saving the resources using the brick thingy. Even if its a "a small amount of their resources from their total amount", i think its unneeded. Theres no need for all these, cause at lower levels it is easy and cheap to upgrade stuff, so they dont really need a "good foundation of resources." At highers levels, maybe hall 4/5 onwards we have enough defenses so its up to how we make our base defense if we will get raided.

@Aedenos Yep agreed about pvp being based on the dragon hall lvl. About the %drop thingy, i think its already implemented, as i once got attacked by a hall 9 guy, and I had 700k sheep but only lost 7k sheep though he got me 100%.

About the "cannot steal resources from mines or barns" thingy i definitely disagree, cause its good loot. As long as you play regularly, it wouldnt have much for people to loot, meaning that we can get a lot from mines and barns if a player doesnt play for a long time.

"If you don't "win" the match, your percentage of resources looted drops." No...

Dizzy
07-31-2013, 11:39 AM
I don't understand why someone should get loot if they lose.

Kaytar
07-31-2013, 10:38 PM
@Kaytar/Cahaun/Thren it seems like you essentially only want for sheep barns and gold mines to be able to be raided. The problem I see with this is the cost of PvP not being worth it for only that. Someone goes and spends 10-?K fighting someone only to get the measly resources that are in currently being produced. I have an idea, why don't we just take away the PvP feature. Seems that is what you guys want.

If I can't recoup my loses, or even gain something, why bother.

They don't lose everything when attacked, and when defeated they get a guardian.

As far as farmers go, where they attack resources but don't get a star, just put your dragon hall outside your defenses so they have to attack it. Thus giving you a guardian. I sent your post to Thren. This is her text:

Tell Ryuu he needs to realize that barns and mines can already be farmed like that & have been the focal point for res farmer's raids. Typically, players use them to guard draggies & storages over walls, since players tend to empty storages as much as possible before logging out, they focus on them cuz of the res stored within them due to the player not being able to pick up that res after logging off.

He is failing to see the point we are trying to make; players want a way to safely store collected res. By converting some (with a fee), we can gradually save enough res to continue with builds. Allowing res to still be taken via PvP via destroying storages, mines, and barns like we all have been doing. Therefore, nothing changes for PvP.

I don't get why ppl are having a problem understanding this, other RTS games have similar conversion systems cuz its the only way to save up enough for high end builds. No one can be on the games 24/7! Some RTS games even boot you after a while of being logged on geeze.

glengon
08-01-2013, 02:29 AM
He is failing to see the point we are trying to make; players want a way to safely store collected res. By converting some (with a fee), we can gradually save enough res to continue with builds. Allowing res to still be taken via PvP via destroying storages, mines, and barns like we all have been doing. Therefore, nothing changes for PvP.


Lol we dont need a way to safely store collected resources. We defend them in our bases. Its more fun this way anyways..

Cahaun
08-01-2013, 05:45 AM
He is failing to see the point we are trying to make; players want a way to safely store collected res. By converting some (with a fee), we can gradually save enough res to continue with builds. Allowing res to still be taken via PvP via destroying storages, mines, and barns like we all have been doing. Therefore, nothing changes for PvP.


Lol we dont need a way to safely store collected resources. We defend them in our bases. Its more fun this way anyways..
And you still fail to see that you will still be defending your resources so nothing will be changing your fun.
While the person can keep aside a portion of his resources for safe keeping, the rest of the resources are still able to be taken from the hoards, pens, barns, and mines.

glengon
08-01-2013, 06:32 AM
And you still fail to see that you will still be defending your resources so nothing will be changing your fun.
While the person can keep aside a portion of his resources for safe keeping, the rest of the resources are still able to be taken from the hoards, pens, barns, and mines.

k so how much is "a portion" then?

Dizzy
08-01-2013, 09:54 AM
I don't think most of the people who have a problem with converting resources have played RTS games before. What they fail to realize is early in the game, it's easy to get the resources you need because nothing costs too much to build. But as the game progresses, it becomes impossible to save enough for builds if you're raided even once every couple of days. As a matter of fact, the more you save, the greater target you become. This puts the game at a standstill. Sure you can raid to get the resources you need, but if you don't have enough resources to upgrade your troops (also expensive), your raids will fail.

The point isn't to protect ALL of your resources, just SOME. So you can gradually save enough to build. Believe me, it's not something that happens overnight; it's not like you can just protect 100k of sheep in one fell swoop, unless you have maybe a million already (depending on the percentages allowed). It still takes a lot of time to save, it still leaves the majority of resources available for raiding, but it eliminates the rage-quitting from having a week's worth of resources raided just as you were getting enough saved to upgrade your hall.

Kaytar
08-01-2013, 10:17 AM
Thren wanted to reply to the latest post I sent her today:

The portion will depend on how much you can afford to convert. Whatever fees/taxes the devs put up for each res, you'll have to come up with that fees plus the amount of res you want coverted. Also, they could make it so you have to come up with a smaller fee to convert them back. This in itself makes it a bit more challenging. Remember, we can collect a certain amount per level cap of each barn and mine so perhaps on DB we could make the fees for each type of res take that into consideration as well... Its like a security account at a bank (perse)... OR just don't use the converting system at all, its your choice.

Also, the production control can help us control how much is being raided when we log off. They can keep a -minimal- production at 70% & -maximum- at 100% collectively for example. This way it will still allow players to raid a significant amount of res. However, when we log back on & had it set to that minimum, the amount of res we collect would also be lowered compared to the maximum.... OR just don't use the production control system at all. Its your choice.

Exchanging one res for the other would be awesome too, sometimes I find myself having a lot of sheep and not enough gold (or vice versa). So instead of wasting the sheep (or gold) making troops (or spells), it would be nice to exchange the sheep for gold like we can exchange other res for gold in Emross War. Again, its like a fee within itself cuz you need a certain amount of one res to get a certain amount of gold and vice versa.

Keep in mind, these are all just examples. We aren't saying they should copy their systems lol, we're asking them for similar systems that helps us save.

glengon
08-01-2013, 11:48 AM
I don't think most of the people who have a problem with converting resources have played RTS games before. What they fail to realize is early in the game, it's easy to get the resources you need because nothing costs too much to build. But as the game progresses, it becomes impossible to save enough for builds if you're raided even once every couple of days. As a matter of fact, the more you save, the greater target you become. This puts the game at a standstill. Sure you can raid to get the resources you need, but if you don't have enough resources to upgrade your troops (also expensive), your raids will fail.

The point isn't to protect ALL of your resources, just SOME. So you can gradually save enough to build. Believe me, it's not something that happens overnight; it's not like you can just protect 100k of sheep in one fell swoop, unless you have maybe a million already (depending on the percentages allowed). It still takes a lot of time to save, it still leaves the majority of resources available for raiding, but it eliminates the rage-quitting from having a week's worth of resources raided just as you were getting enough saved to upgrade your hall.

Lolz i've protected like up to 700k of sheep overnight before, with my puny base..and im only at dragon hall 5, and spent nothing, still using 2 builders, yet im doing pretty well, at least for now. It IS possible to protect them without something that can protect them from raiders. There aint any of these kinda resource protection/saving thingy in other similar games like clash of clans. I also recently saved up 750k gold to upgrade my hall, and i got them by raiding others. Of course, sometimes i get raided over 100k resources, and i would surely get mad and want revenge, but i dont really rage quit since its part of the game after all. I never thought of saving them in a bank or something where other player cant touch. I guess its a good idea for you guys though...As i said i just dont like this idea, but i wouldnt really mind if it were implemented.. And it isnt easy saving up 750k gold, at least for me(i dont think hall 5 is that "early" in the game since resources can now go up to a million).

As the game progresses, our defense will also improve a lot, so dont worry about it being "impossible to save enough for builds". I agree that the more we save the greater target we become, thats why i spend most of my stuff right now due to my inadequate defenses. Well you dont always see a hall 5 guy with 200k resources available for loot. I wouldnt want to lose that much too, so most of the time i only keep at most 400k in my corrals/hoards. Thats assuming when people loot from your resources, they get only 25%. Thats what i get from calculating anyway.. Losing 100k is okay, as it isnt difficult to get it back, usually a few raids or one lucky raid will do..IDK, you can go look at my base, its not that great, but i can somehow protect my resources.

TL;DR
Its possible to save a large amount of resource, so while the "resource saving thingy" IS useful, I feel that it is unneeded. As i said i just dont really like this idea, but i wouldnt really mind if it was implemented :D

Dizzy
08-01-2013, 01:21 PM
You do realize as you progress, things start to cost well over a million gold or sheep? Upgrading walls from level 4 to 5 is 30k a BLOCK. 5 to 6 is 75k. And you might be able to defend your stash now, but as more people level up, you're going to be raided more and more by people with better skills. As your defenses grow, so do the offenses of those raiding you. And so does the cost of upgrades. It's all well and good to say "spend it as soon as you get it" but when you're trying to save over a million in resources, that's impossible.

*shurg* I think it's a good idea because I've played RTS games before and know as you get into the later stages of the game, things become impossibly expensive, and if you don't have a method to protect at least some resources, the game quickly starts to feel pointless.

Rare
08-01-2013, 01:57 PM
You do realize as you progress, things start to cost well over a million gold or sheep? Upgrading walls from level 4 to 5 is 30k a BLOCK. 5 to 6 is 75k. And you might be able to defend your stash now, but as more people level up, you're going to be raided more and more by people with better skills. As your defenses grow, so do the offenses of those raiding you. And so does the cost of upgrades. It's all well and good to say "spend it as soon as you get it" but when you're trying to save over a million in resources, that's impossible.

*shurg* I think it's a good idea because I've played RTS games before and know as you get into the later stages of the game, things become impossibly expensive, and if you don't have a method to protect at least some resources, the game quickly starts to feel pointless.

I can see that happening. When you say it that way, it make a lot of sense.

glengon
08-01-2013, 05:09 PM
You do realize as you progress, things start to cost well over a million gold or sheep? Upgrading walls from level 4 to 5 is 30k a BLOCK. 5 to 6 is 75k. And you might be able to defend your stash now, but as more people level up, you're going to be raided more and more by people with better skills. As your defenses grow, so do the offenses of those raiding you. And so does the cost of upgrades. It's all well and good to say "spend it as soon as you get it" but when you're trying to save over a million in resources, that's impossible.

*shurg* I think it's a good idea because I've played RTS games before and know as you get into the later stages of the game, things become impossibly expensive, and if you don't have a method to protect at least some resources, the game quickly starts to feel pointless.

Yea of course I realised. I got mostly lvl5 walls anyway, and they cost a ton. When my hall is done, upgrading the walls to lvl 6 will be a huge pain. Lol dont shrug haha, go play clash of clans, cause battle dragons is based on it. You'll realise at end game, stuff is also "incredibly expensive", but there isn't and resource saving. So the game is pointless I guess.. .I didn't know that haha..
PS I've never played CoC before but I'm pretty sure there isn't any resource saving at higher levels. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: good luck to you anyways. :) don't worry if 100k is hard to protect overnight, once you upgrade your walls to lvl 5, fewer people will dare to attack. Good luck anyways when trying to protect resources at higher lvls. Have confidence in ur base :). Im guessing you feel this game be pointless any higher lvls so you want the resource saving, cause you have " played rts game before" and its a must to have to have a ssaving system or you can't survive. Good luck anyways..

Dizzy
08-01-2013, 05:49 PM
It's OK if you don't agree with me, you know. Would it help if I added "I feel games like this get pointless if you can't ever build up enough resources to build." I didn't mean to impose my opinion on you.

Also, my walls are already level 5, and my defenses deflect most attacks. I have plenty of confidence in my base. I'm not just speaking for myself; I've already seen some people in my tribe become frustrated about not being able to save for upgrades because of frequent raids.

But meh. I don't really feel strongly enough about this idea to be posting so much about it, so let's agree to disagree because I have walls to build. ;)

glengon
08-01-2013, 06:41 PM
It's OK if you don't agree with me, you know. Would it help if I added "I feel games like this get pointless if you can't ever build up enough resources to build." I didn't mean to impose my opinion on you.

Also, my walls are already level 5, and my defenses deflect most attacks. I have plenty of confidence in my base. I'm not just speaking for myself; I've already seen some people in my tribe become frustrated about not being able to save for upgrades because of frequent raids.

But meh. I don't really feel strongly enough about this idea to be posting so much about it, so let's agree to disagree because I have walls to build. ;)
Lol I see XD...I don't really disagree as I said I just feel its unneeded. It would definitely help, but we dont need it.
Edit: Lol might you be hoaong from brotherhood? O.O

csb
08-02-2013, 01:44 PM
I don't think most of the people who have a problem with converting resources have played RTS games before. What they fail to realize is early in the game, it's easy to get the resources you need because nothing costs too much to build. But as the game progresses, it becomes impossible to save enough for builds if you're raided even once every couple of days. As a matter of fact, the more you save, the greater target you become. This puts the game at a standstill. Sure you can raid to get the resources you need, but if you don't have enough resources to upgrade your troops (also expensive), your raids will fail.

I think this is by design. When we begin the game, we don't really need pearls. But, after about DH 5/6, it's basically impossible to save up enough gold/sheep to pay for something expensive. People have to buy pearls and/or buy a guardian. This is where STS makes money. We have to make a choice: fail, quit, or pay.

Valsacar
08-03-2013, 10:16 PM
This is a terrible idea, the entire game revolves around PvP and raiding others for gold and sheep. With your idea, we're basically going to end up limited to what is in the collectors to raid, which is nothing unless they haven't logged on in 12 hours.

This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I covert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.

The same goes for resource conversion. Sure, it would make things easier, but it would also ruin parts of the game. Right now the balance is that you need to get both items. Implement that conversion and I can just go after guys with gold and ignore sheep, I can convert the gold over later to cover my costs. That takes a large amount of the strategy out of the game.

You cannot just take ideas from another game, without looking at the whole picture. What is the hourly generation rate there? What are the, relative, costs to build and army and attack others? There are many things that factor into why an idea works in one game, but would destroy another game.

I am not a pearl user, I am at DH5 with EVERY upgrade, my hall has a day left before it is completed. Right now my goal is to have as close to max resources as possible before that happens. Last night I went to bed with 900k sheep and 500k gold (out of 1m max). I woke up to have 650k sheep and 260k gold. I got farmed, I was attacked 5 times last night before someone finally gave me a guardian. I didn't rage quit, I watched the replays to see if there was anything I could do to make that harder. Then I went and raided a few other people, after 2 raids I have almost all of my gold back and now need to start working on finding some sheep.

glengon
08-04-2013, 02:13 AM
This is a terrible idea, the entire game revolves around PvP and raiding others for gold and sheep. With your idea, we're basically going to end up limited to what is in the collectors to raid, which is nothing unless they haven't logged on in 12 hours.

This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I covert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.

The same goes for resource conversion. Sure, it would make things easier, but it would also ruin parts of the game. Right now the balance is that you need to get both items. Implement that conversion and I can just go after guys with gold and ignore sheep, I can convert the gold over later to cover my costs. That takes a large amount of the strategy out of the game.

You cannot just take ideas from another game, without looking at the whole picture. What is the hourly generation rate there? What are the, relative, costs to build and army and attack others? There are many things that factor into why an idea works in one game, but would destroy another game.

I am not a pearl user, I am at DH5 with EVERY upgrade, my hall has a day left before it is completed. Right now my goal is to have as close to max resources as possible before that happens. Last night I went to bed with 900k sheep and 500k gold (out of 1m max). I woke up to have 650k sheep and 260k gold. I got farmed, I was attacked 5 times last night before someone finally gave me a guardian. I didn't rage quit, I watched the replays to see if there was anything I could do to make that harder. Then I went and raided a few other people, after 2 raids I have almost all of my gold back and now need to start working on finding some sheep.
This ^

Kaytar
08-04-2013, 03:08 AM
I sent Thren the most recent posts. This is her reply:

Read the posts past the OP within the thread. This won't change anything regarding PvP what-so-ever. Play Emross War, Avalon Wars, Roman Empire, etc. Don't just limit & focus on Clash of Clans. Its various systems that do not interrupt with raids nor the amount of res you get from raids cuz of the limitations in place while saving. Instead of hidding sheep in dojos and hidding gold in Temple of Magic to save. They can implement similar systems as we've given examples of & stated numerous times to help players save gradually w/o interrupting PvP. Why is that so hard for players to understand? Smh. Im starting to feel like Im talking to a wall lol!

Valsacar
08-04-2013, 07:04 AM
Yes, it does appear that we are talking to a wall. You have ignored the points brought against your idea, and just kept repeating "but these other games, that are not the same, do it."

Cahaun
08-04-2013, 07:35 AM
This is a terrible idea, the entire game revolves around PvP and raiding others for gold and sheep. With your idea, we're basically going to end up limited to what is in the collectors to raid, which is nothing unless they haven't logged on in 12 hours.

This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I covert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.

The same goes for resource conversion. Sure, it would make things easier, but it would also ruin parts of the game. Right now the balance is that you need to get both items. Implement that conversion and I can just go after guys with gold and ignore sheep, I can convert the gold over later to cover my costs. That takes a large amount of the strategy out of the game.

You cannot just take ideas from another game, without looking at the whole picture. What is the hourly generation rate there? What are the, relative, costs to build and army and attack others? There are many things that factor into why an idea works in one game, but would destroy another game.

I am not a pearl user, I am at DH5 with EVERY upgrade, my hall has a day left before it is completed. Right now my goal is to have as close to max resources as possible before that happens. Last night I went to bed with 900k sheep and 500k gold (out of 1m max). I woke up to have 650k sheep and 260k gold. I got farmed, I was attacked 5 times last night before someone finally gave me a guardian. I didn't rage quit, I watched the replays to see if there was anything I could do to make that harder. Then I went and raided a few other people, after 2 raids I have almost all of my gold back and now need to start working on finding some sheep.
It won't ruin balance, it won't ruin PvP, and it will not kill the game. What you just said will not happen because what you say about the idea are skewed and misinterpreted views on what it really is.
With our idea, there will still be things for you to raid as people won't be able to just convert all of their resources at once.
If you want to know all our ideas on the resource conversion idea, then download Kik and talk to Thren one-on-one so you don't keep skewing our ideas around to make it look bad and actually see the idea for what it is.

Valsacar
08-04-2013, 08:07 AM
It won't ruin balance, it won't ruin PvP, and it will not kill the game. What you just said will not happen because what you say about the idea are skewed and misinterpreted views on what it really is.
With our idea, there will still be things for you to raid as people won't be able to just convert all of their resources at once.
If you want to know all our ideas on the resource conversion idea, then download Kik and talk to Thren one-on-one so you don't keep skewing our ideas around to make it look bad and actually see the idea for what it is.

How about, instead of just saying "You're wrong" you actually put forth some proof? So far you have referenced games that are not even of the same genre as this one, and then when someone gives you detailed reasons on why your idea won't work you just keep repeating yourself.

If you feel my interpretation of your idea is wrong, then explain why it is wrong. I don't need to go download some program to speak to someone in private, the discussion is right here on the forums for all to see. You're the OP, therefore it should be safe to assume you're the one in the best position to defend your ideas. Saying, "Your wrong" is not how you win a debate.

glengon
08-04-2013, 11:16 AM
This is a terrible idea, the entire game revolves around PvP and raiding others for gold and sheep. With your idea, we're basically going to end up limited to what is in the collectors to raid, which is nothing unless they haven't logged on in 12 hours.

This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I covert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.

The same goes for resource conversion. Sure, it would make things easier, but it would also ruin parts of the game. Right now the balance is that you need to get both items. Implement that conversion and I can just go after guys with gold and ignore sheep, I can convert the gold over later to cover my costs. That takes a large amount of the strategy out of the game.

You cannot just take ideas from another game, without looking at the whole picture. What is the hourly generation rate there? What are the, relative, costs to build and army and attack others? There are many things that factor into why an idea works in one game, but would destroy another game.

I am not a pearl user, I am at DH5 with EVERY upgrade, my hall has a day left before it is completed. Right now my goal is to have as close to max resources as possible before that happens. Last night I went to bed with 900k sheep and 500k gold (out of 1m max). I woke up to have 650k sheep and 260k gold. I got farmed, I was attacked 5 times last night before someone finally gave me a guardian. I didn't rage quit, I watched the replays to see if there was anything I could do to make that harder. Then I went and raided a few other people, after 2 raids I have almost all of my gold back and now need to start working on finding some sheep.
It won't ruin balance, it won't ruin PvP, and it will not kill the game. What you just said will not happen because what you say about the idea are skewed and misinterpreted views on what it really is.
With our idea, there will still be things for you to raid as people won't be able to just convert all of their resources at once.
If you want to know all our ideas on the resource conversion idea, then download Kik and talk to Thren one-on-one so you don't keep skewing our ideas around to make it look bad and actually see the idea for what it is.

Lol actually we are all in the same tribe as thren. :3

Cahaun
08-04-2013, 02:27 PM
If you feel my interpretation of your idea is wrong, then explain why it is wrong. I don't need to go download some program to speak to someone in private, the discussion is right here on the forums for all to see. You're the OP, therefore it should be safe to assume you're the one in the best position to defend your ideas. Saying, "Your wrong" is not how you win a debate.
I'll do just that right here. I was remarking on going over getting Kik due to the fact that Thren herself cannot really post here, but it doesn't mean that I won't defend something that I believe will help the game. Saying "You're wrong" may not win a debate, but it's valid facts that strengthen a side's case on the matter.


This is a terrible idea, the entire game revolves around PvP and raiding others for gold and sheep. With your idea, we're basically going to end up limited to what is in the collectors to raid, which is nothing unless they haven't logged on in 12 hours.
The game revolves around PvP, and raiding with this idea is not limited to what is in the mines and barns.


This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I convert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.
People will still have plenty to raid, and I'll say again that it is not limited to the ones in storage. Calling out that prices will rise due to people being able to make sure that they have a solid amount of resources to slowly build on is quite bold, and there will still be resources for people to raid. I don't PvP and I can get enough gold and sheep to upgrade one thing a lot faster than you are dramatizing it to be. You underestimate the rate of how much resources that can be produced over time. Maybe it's because you lose a lot when raided and feel the amount of time that is sucked out of you when you are trying to build on?


The same goes for resource conversion. Sure, it would make things easier, but it would also ruin parts of the game. Right now the balance is that you need to get both items. Implement that conversion and I can just go after guys with gold and ignore sheep, I can convert the gold over later to cover my costs. That takes a large amount of the strategy out of the game.
While I'm not one who fully wants this, your argument is a bit silly. Why would you go after a person who focuses mainly on one resource (Which would be a rare sight) and break down your raid profits with the fees that come from converting when you can just go after the people who are focusing on both and get a larger profit in the end?


You cannot just take ideas from another game, without looking at the whole picture. What is the hourly generation rate there? What are the, relative, costs to build and army and attack others? There are many things that factor into why an idea works in one game, but would destroy another game.
We looked at the whole picture and added more to it so that it would not destroy the game, but you have a hard time identifying and understanding the limits that we put onto the idea so that it doesn't break the game.


I am not a pearl user, I am at DH5 with EVERY upgrade, my hall has a day left before it is completed. Right now my goal is to have as close to max resources as possible before that happens. Last night I went to bed with 900k sheep and 500k gold (out of 1m max). I woke up to have 650k sheep and 260k gold. I got farmed, I was attacked 5 times last night before someone finally gave me a guardian. I didn't rage quit, I watched the replays to see if there was anything I could do to make that harder. Then I went and raided a few other people, after 2 raids I have almost all of my gold back and now need to start working on finding some sheep.
And we all encounter the same things as you do. I have the same happen to me. What I want is to have an option in which I can slowly build upon a side amount so that I can build toward the major purchases while the majority rest of my resources are still open to attack. I'm not asking to make all of my resources invulnerable to raids. That's where we have to start thinking better and putting up better defenses.

Valsacar
08-04-2013, 04:33 PM
I'll do just that right here. I was remarking on going over getting Kik due to the fact that Thren herself cannot really post here, but it doesn't mean that I won't defend something that I believe will help the game. Saying "You're wrong" may not win a debate, but it's valid facts that strengthen a side's case on the matter.

Good, now we can discuss and debate an idea.



The game revolves around PvP, and raiding with this idea is not limited to what is in the mines and barns.

People will still have plenty to raid, and I'll say again that it is not limited to the ones in storage. Calling out that prices will rise due to people being able to make sure that they have a solid amount of resources to slowly build on is quite bold, and there will still be resources for people to raid. I don't PvP and I can get enough gold and sheep to upgrade one thing a lot faster than you are dramatizing it to be. You underestimate the rate of how much resources that can be produced over time. Maybe it's because you lose a lot when raided and feel the amount of time that is sucked out of you when you are trying to build on?


The bolded part explains everything. If you do not PvP, in a game revolved around PvP, then how can you say this will not affect PvP? You state that you can get enough gold and sheep to upgrade things, without PvP, then I state that one of two must be true.

1. You buy pearls.

2. You have a low level Dragon hall (4 or less).

To explain how I came to that conclusion, let's do some math.

At DH6, I can upgrade my ice dragon to level 4, that will cost me 1.28m gold. Assuming my gold mines are at max, level 8, I can produce 1.9k/hr out of 6 gold mines. That gives me 273.6k a day. Now, to be fair, I can get boosts from my tribemates so let's factor that in too. I'll even go as far as assuming I have a full, very active, tribe and that they all magically know it is gold I want them to boost. That gives me 735 minutes (3 boosts a day X 5 minutes* 49 since I can't boost myself) of one collector running at double. At the rate of 1.9k/hr that gives me 31.6667 per minute. So I get an extra 23275 gold for that day, giving me a total of 296,875 gold in one day. Assuming that I also do not get raided at all (a fair assumption, given your idea) that will take me 4.3 days to get enough gold just to upgrade that ONE thing. To put that in perspective, yesterday I raided for over 800k (stopped because gold was maxed out, nothing left to upgrade), but we'll come back to that later. I really don't feel like going through everything one can upgrade, so I'll give you a rough estimate. It would take about 16m gold and close to that in sheep to upgrade everything at DH6. I'm sure you can do the math on how long that will take.

So back to me, sure I lose some when raided, that's the main part of the game. Yesterday I logged on to find that I had been farmed, I'm saving up for when my DH upgrade is done today. I had lost a good chunk, around 300k sheep and 250k gold. I ended the day with 1m in each, that's how it works. You're online, you raid and gain resources, you're offline and you lose some. I logged on this morning to see I had been hit, as expected when you have a lot of resources, but the guardian will last me until lunch and my hall upgrade will be done right after.

And since you didn't seem to understand how your idea will lead to costs raising by 10% (given the numbers from your screen shots), let me make it a little simpler. I have gold, I'm going to log off, I will covert all of that to bricks. I have nothing to raid, except whatever comes in my mines while I'm gone. When I have enough bricks, I convert them back (at a 10% loss) and upgrade my item. Same goes for sheep. I still have nothing to raid. See how that becomes a 10% increase in cost, and basically makes raiding people pointless (all they have is the little bit from mines)? You might as well rename the game SimCity, Dragons.



While I'm not one who fully wants this, your argument is a bit silly. Why would you go after a person who focuses mainly on one resource (Which would be a rare sight) and break down your raid profits with the fees that come from converting when you can just go after the people who are focusing on both and get a larger profit in the end?


Since you don't PvP, I guess this could be understandable... to a point. As you're building things, you use resources, generally not all at once. In the beginning, if you're smart, you only upgrade one dragon at a time (your main gold sink, after walls) and upgrade others with your two remaining builders (if you used your free pearls smartly). Nearly everything else costs sheep, including troop upgrades in the ToW. That means you have very few sheep sitting around, they are being used, but your gold builds up a bit faster as you should be waiting for a dragon to end before you start another. That means... you have more gold to take in a raid. Towards the end of a hall level it is the opposite, you've upgraded all that needs to be done with sheep and every bit of gold you get goes to walls. Leaving you with... more sheep than gold.

So, as you can see, it's VERY common to see people that have more of one resource than another. In fact, I rarely see people that are close to each other unless they don't have any resources at all, or obviously haven't logged on in a day or two (meaning everything is in collectors).



We looked at the whole picture and added more to it so that it would not destroy the game, but you have a hard time identifying and understanding the limits that we put onto the idea so that it doesn't break the game.


What limits, you mean the cost of converting? Other than that, you have not mentioned limits. Anytime someone has spoken against your idea you have either stated "you're wrong" or said there will still be resources to take from mines/farms (which we already covered, is a small amount).



And we all encounter the same things as you do. I have the same happen to me. What I want is to have an option in which I can slowly build upon a side amount so that I can build toward the major purchases while the majority rest of my resources are still open to attack. I'm not asking to make all of my resources invulnerable to raids. That's where we have to start thinking better and putting up better defenses.

You don't need anything to save resources, except (as you just stated) thinking better and putting up better defenses.

Since you have responded twice, and both times failed to discuss the fact that you are taking the idea from a very different game, and have not given any additional details on hourly rate of generation or other facts to help compare the two games; I must assume that you have conceded the fact that the two games are barely comparable.

glengon
08-04-2013, 05:14 PM
This is how the game will become if your idea is implemented. I get resources, I convert them. No one has anything to raid, besides the tiny bit that in collectors (rarely enough to cover the cost of even a cheap army). Costs of things effectively were raised 10% (based off the numbers from your other game), because people will be converting everything (10% loss) until they have enough to build one thing. Problem is, there will be nothing to raid from others, it will take you WEEKS to get enough gold to upgrade ONE thing at DH5+. The game stagnates, and dies.
People will still have plenty to raid, and I'll say again that it is not limited to the ones in storage. Calling out that prices will rise due to people being able to make sure that they have a solid amount of resources to slowly build on is quite bold, and there will still be resources for people to raid. I don't PvP and I can get enough gold and sheep to upgrade one thing a lot faster than you are dramatizing it to be. You underestimate the rate of how much resources that can be produced over time. Maybe it's because you lose a lot when raided and feel the amount of time that is sucked out of you when you are trying to build on?



You dont pvp? If you don't then its really hard to earn gold.. In our tribe we raid a lot and can earn up to a million in less than a day, as Vals mentioned. Depending on mines won't help a lot :3

Shan Fu Wei
08-05-2013, 04:51 AM
There is already a way to store resources without them being raided by other players, it's called pearls. There is nothing wrong about paying a bit for a game you play and enjoy. Support the developers AND profit ! You also earn a slow steady trickle of them if you are active in a tribe, for achievements (more for the higher level ones) and clearing stuff that apparently grows back on the map. They can be converted into resources or used to make you immune to attack altogether.

In my humble opinion it would remove a lot of excitement from the game if you could safeguard your resources like that. There is a risk of loss as well as opportunity for gain in PvP, that is what makes it exciting. It would make more sense if this game was some in depth economy simulation, but it's not. It's a dragon eat dragon world. Maybe it's just me that enjoys logging on to see my fortress a smoking ruin as much plundering a bountiful target. Real loss as well as real gain is what makes the game fun.

Kaytar
08-06-2013, 05:17 AM
Thren asked me to post this just before she went to sleep lol....

Tell Cahaun I said that he is right, seems not many ppl seem to grasp the concepts here at all. They make it seem like it will ruin PvP when in fact it won't even have a drastict effect, been done over and over on many RTS games, even given examples and still they don't get it. Smh.

So perhaps another solution would be to allow us to deposite low amounts of res into the builds until they receive the total amount required to begin the upgrades. Like making monthly payments on a bill only this would be daily payments on builds. Again, no effect on PvP. No effect on the amount of res being raided through PvP (since again, we can't do anything while offline). And again, everyone can gradually get enough res to continue building in their bases, there will be limits an yadda yadda yadda... Im kinda tired of repeating myself lol.

NotYoCookiez
08-06-2013, 07:53 AM
Telll thren that she/he should not expect to just say an idea and then everyone agrees then sooner or later devs implement it.
People have gave good feedback. This system that you are trying to implement may not ruin pvp but still takes away so part of the whole game concept (staying online and continuing raiding til you get the resource amount you need. Staying online will make sure that you dont get raided by others)

Valsacar
08-06-2013, 08:52 AM
Thren asked me to post this just before she went to sleep lol....

Tell Cahaun I said that he is right, seems not many ppl seem to grasp the concepts here at all. They make it seem like it will ruin PvP when in fact it won't even have a drastict effect, been done over and over on many RTS games, even given examples and still they don't get it. Smh.

So perhaps another solution would be to allow us to deposite low amounts of res into the builds until they receive the total amount required to begin the upgrades. Like making monthly payments on a bill only this would be daily payments on builds. Again, no effect on PvP. No effect on the amount of res being raided through PvP (since again, we can't do anything while offline). And again, everyone can gradually get enough res to continue building in their bases, there will be limits an yadda yadda yadda... Im kinda tired of repeating myself lol.

We can at least agree on one thing, repeating yourself is tiring.

Once again, you make broad statements with absolutely nothing to back it up. You keep saying "this will not ruin PvP" and yet you have nothing to prove that it will not. You reference games that are not the same type, and you don't even try to go into details that would help compare the two.

You seem to have this strange idea that because you need to collect from mines that that means there will be plenty for raids. I have shown you the math, this is no where near enough. At DH5+ an army capable of winning a fight (if you count getting res as winning, not even talking about 1-3 stars) can cost 30-60k and even if we assume that you get 75% of what is in the mines/farms (it's probably 50% at best) you need to find people that have not logged in for over 5 hours just to break even on the fight. Sometimes you get lucky and find someone that hasn't logged in for 8-12 hours, which means you actually get a decent amount, but in general it's the ones that have stuff in their hoards/corrals that actually give you something. If they are well defended you need to take out a good chunk of the base (1 star, at least) in order to get it.

Multibird
08-06-2013, 11:02 AM
I really like the idea, since I wanted a challenge I didn't buy any pearls, if I wanted to I could've bought huge amounts of pearls. Now from what I see most people that did buy pearls upgraded there walls and troops right off the bat. Others like me need lots of time and patience to upgrade stuff.

Its been over two weeks I've been trying to save up 750k for my dragon hall so I can level it up to level 6. A player who doesn't use pearls, it gets tuff. So I decided to upgrade all my walls so I don't give my gold away to nubs that just buy pearls to beat the game.

@@@@Valscar@@@@, please don't complain you also bought pearls to get help, i know the people that did buy it, I started this game before you, yet now you crossed me on lb? think about the people that can't, there are children that do play this game :))

Just my opinion :/

Rare
08-06-2013, 01:49 PM
We can at least agree on one thing, repeating yourself is tiring.

Once again, you make broad statements with absolutely nothing to back it up. You keep saying "this will not ruin PvP" and yet you have nothing to prove that it will not. You reference games that are not the same type, and you don't even try to go into details that would help compare the two.

You seem to have this strange idea that because you need to collect from mines that that means there will be plenty for raids. I have shown you the math, this is no where near enough. At DH5+ an army capable of winning a fight (if you count getting res as winning, not even talking about 1-3 stars) can cost 30-60k and even if we assume that you get 75% of what is in the mines/farms (it's probably 50% at best) you need to find people that have not logged in for over 5 hours just to break even on the fight. Sometimes you get lucky and find someone that hasn't logged in for 8-12 hours, which means you actually get a decent amount, but in general it's the ones that have stuff in their hoards/corrals that actually give you something. If they are well defended you need to take out a good chunk of the base (1 star, at least) in order to get it.

The math is right. For me, an adequate army to take down a DH5 (DH5) with all their dragons in around 30-40k (i haven't upraded all my units yet, so I imagine it will be more once that happens). It usually costs me about 20-25k gold just to find someone with enough sheep to replace what I will spend on the battle and still give me a decent stash of gold. And that's IF I can take their resources down.

Valsacar
08-06-2013, 04:41 PM
I really like the idea, since I wanted a challenge I didn't buy any pearls, if I wanted to I could've bought huge amounts of pearls. Now from what I see most people that did buy pearls upgraded there walls and troops right off the bat. Others like me need lots of time and patience to upgrade stuff.

Its been over two weeks I've been trying to save up 750k for my dragon hall so I can level it up to level 6. A player who doesn't use pearls, it gets tuff. So I decided to upgrade all my walls so I don't give my gold away to nubs that just buy pearls to beat the game.

@@@@Valscar@@@@, please don't complain you also bought pearls to get help, i know the people that did buy it, I started this game before you, yet now you crossed me on lb? think about the people that can't, there are children that do play this game :))

Just my opinion :/

Yes, it is your opinion, and not based in fact. Pearls do not let you move up in the lb.

I did not buy pearls (which there are not a lot for my country), I did some free offers, cleared trees, gave boosts (before and after the update) and have almost all the achievements. I spent those pearls, almost all of them, on builders. I have raided, a lot, and used it to move up. I upgrade each hall level to full before moving to the next. While my hall was upgrading to level 6 I built up enough to be able to upgrade things as soon as it was done, it wasn't easy keeping 1m sheep and gold safe.

Multibird
08-06-2013, 08:12 PM
Yes, it is your opinion, and not based in fact. Pearls do not let you move up in the lb.

I did not buy pearls (which there are not a lot for my country), I did some free offers, cleared trees, gave boosts (before and after the update) and have almost all the achievements. I spent those pearls, almost all of them, on builders. I have raided, a lot, and used it to move up. I upgrade each hall level to full before moving to the next. While my hall was upgrading to level 6 I built up enough to be able to upgrade things as soon as it was done, it wasn't easy keeping 1m sheep and gold safe.
That's nice

glengon
08-06-2013, 11:37 PM
We can at least agree on one thing, repeating yourself is tiring.

Once again, you make broad statements with absolutely nothing to back it up. You keep saying "this will not ruin PvP" and yet you have nothing to prove that it will not. You reference games that are not the same type, and you don't even try to go into details that would help compare the two.

You seem to have this strange idea that because you need to collect from mines that that means there will be plenty for raids. I have shown you the math, this is no where near enough. At DH5+ an army capable of winning a fight (if you count getting res as winning, not even talking about 1-3 stars) can cost 30-60k and even if we assume that you get 75% of what is in the mines/farms (it's probably 50% at best) you need to find people that have not logged in for over 5 hours just to break even on the fight. Sometimes you get lucky and find someone that hasn't logged in for 8-12 hours, which means you actually get a decent amount, but in general it's the ones that have stuff in their hoards/corrals that actually give you something. If they are well defended you need to take out a good chunk of the base (1 star, at least) in order to get it.

The math is right. For me, an adequate army to take down a DH5 (DH5) with all their dragons in around 30-40k (i haven't upraded all my units yet, so I imagine it will be more once that happens). It usually costs me about 20-25k gold just to find someone with enough sheep to replace what I will spend on the battle and still give me a decent stash of gold. And that's IF I can take their resources down.

Your army is too expensive, if you meant it costs 30-40k. If it costs that much, naturally you will not earn much sheep. I see many people use lots of crushers, up to 20 or more.I farm using only 8 and it works fine. My hall is lvl 6 now, so I understand the skipping T. T it really hurts skipping.. Once I spent 40k skipping sighhhhh.

Rare
08-07-2013, 08:19 AM
Your army is too expensive, if you meant it costs 30-40k. If it costs that much, naturally you will not earn much sheep. I see many people use lots of crushers, up to 20 or more.I farm using only 8 and it works fine. My hall is lvl 6 now, so I understand the skipping T. T it really hurts skipping.. Once I spent 40k skipping sighhhhh.

Well I guess it all depends on who you are farming. I spend a LOT more with smasher to take down Lv4 or 5 walls than I do on crushers. Natrually, if you farm people without these walls, the number of smashers you need is considerably less.

How much is your army?

Kraoracha
08-07-2013, 08:43 AM
I am not sure how it will work on later levels, but on my current level, if I attack enough I can build up enough gold and sheep to build the things I need in a few hours, if that keeps happening it is okay not to be able to save any resources. I think that if everyone can save stuff then the profit for every attack will go down too, so you also gain less quick and the profit/ cost ratio of your attacking dragons will go down.

glengon
08-07-2013, 10:28 AM
Well I guess it all depends on who you are farming. I spend a LOT more with smasher to take down Lv4 or 5 walls than I do on crushers. Natrually, if you farm people without these walls, the number of smashers you need is considerably less.

How much is your army?

How many crushers and smashers do you use anyway?
Lol i dont see anyone without lvl 4/5 walls these days. I use 30 brawlers, 70spitters, 20gobblers, 8crushers, 6 smashers everytime.
Loooool after calculating it, its 28.4k O.o... pff not much difference. Just the crushers and smashers already costs 17k hmm. And i use the same army every single time. Well on the bright side, i dont use every single troop everytime, and at least its not over 30k :D.

octavos
08-07-2013, 11:00 AM
i haven't read any post in this thread..but I agree with OP...this would be interesting :)

Kaytar
08-08-2013, 04:18 PM
Hey can we stay on topic? Anyway here is Threnny's recent text:

Glad some people at least understand and like the ideas so far! :)

Kaytar
08-16-2013, 09:38 PM
Thren asked me to check up on this thread for anything new.

Multibird
08-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Tell thren to farm more :)

Cahaun
08-18-2013, 04:29 PM
Tell thren to farm more :)
It's time to start farming? :cool: